Nas vs. Jay-Z

[ArmchairCritic]

Who won this beef? I feel Nas won but it seems others feel Jay won (Adzzz). What says the Caf?

Jay-Z started this 'officially' with:

Spoiler

He did this at SummerJam with a different verse, the main line at the time sparking this being 'Ask Nas he don't want it with Hov, Nooooooo.'

Then Nas came with this, 3 weeks later:

Spoiler

The full Takeover released after this which we have above.

Then Nas repsonded with Ether:

Spoiler

After that Jay-Z went on Hot 97 talking about how Ether was disrespectful:

Spoiler

Before finally dropping SuperUgly:

Spoiler

That's the main body of the beef. I think Nas won.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

Jaysus, never heard the clip of Jay bubbling up, the big wimp!

In terms of the actual beef, which was stupid, I feel Nas won. Ether is a classic.

But then, Jay-Z is widely considered the best of all time. So looking at the bigger picture, Jay won.

 

[Mockney]

Regardless of who won, "Gay-Z" is the lamest diss in the history of Hip Hop beef.

 

[ArmchairCritic]

There was also Blueprint 2 from Jay:

Spoiler

And Nas' whole take on this:

Spoiler

 

[20solskjaer]

Regardless of who won, "Gay-Z" is the lamest diss in the history of Hip Hop beef.

Dont forget Cockafella Records

 

[ArmchairCritic]

Regardless of who won, "Gay-Z" is the lamest diss in the history of Hip Hop beef.

Not as lame as 'Compared to Beans you wack' on the same song. There were some poor lines on Ether but no one was really expecting Nas to comeback like that.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

Regardless of who won, "Gay-Z" is the lamest diss in the history of Hip Hop beef.

 

[Mockney]

Looking back on Naz's contribution in general from a more enlightened age, it just comes across as a childish homophobic speil of bollocks, which is amusing from a rapper who prides himself on being thoughtful and deep.

I certainly think Nas is the more original rapper though. And I prefer his best work far more than I do Jay-Z's, who - if I'm honest - has never been an artist I've ever been remotely interested in.

I despise the whole posturing gangster side of hip hop though - Wu-Tang aside, who I consider exempt - so this discussion aint really for me tbf.

 

[Pexbo]

Don't really care for this but I do enjoy the irony of someone "dissing" someone else with homophobic remarks.... through the medium of song.

 

[Buchan]

Nas, handily.

God's Son was a great effort. I actually listened to it again last week when cooking dinner, there are some great tracks on it. Lyrically, there's nobody better than Nas in my view.

 

[Genius Me!]

I think it goes without question that Jay Z won in the end. After all, he signed Nas to his label so he's the one making money out of him.

 

[rotherham_red]

Jaysus, never heard the clip of Jay bubbling up, the big wimp!

In terms of the actual beef, which was stupid, I feel Nas won. Ether is a classic.

But then, Jay-Z is widely considered the best of all time. So looking at the bigger picture, Jay won.

The thing is, Nas cheated on Ether, got inside info from Foxy Brown that Jay-Z was doing Tae-bow classes. Foxy, who was digging Jay at the time, and was in The Firm with Nas

 

[BAMSOLA]

Regardless of who won, "Gay-Z" is the lamest diss in the history of Hip Hop beef.

I think you are applying standards that are too highbrow to rap beefs which are essentially fought on the same level as a playground argument.

Nas won because he tailored his argument to essentially what most who are interested in rap beefs want to hear; gutter insults.

The fact that Takeover includes more factual information and better lyrical content is lost on most because they either aren't listening closely enough or are swayed by the ferocity of Nas delivery on Ether as opposed to Jay-Z "no problem I got this" attitude and delivery style on Takeover.

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

The beef? Who cares? In terms of hip hop artists who are very good at what they do? Nas by a landslide. Jay Z really isn't all that good. His flow is dull, his lyrics are stock and the production on his songs just doesn't inspire me at all. Nothing Jay Z has ever done even comes within touching distance of Illmatic, which is a classic, and has rarely been bettered.

 

[dumbo]

Don't really care who won, or what that even entails but have always preffered Nas to Jay-Z as a rapper.

I thought the only really cutting line in the whole feud was "Eminem murdered you on your own shit." Because it's widely acknowledged to be true. Being completely upstaged by the only featured artist on your own album has got to be pretty demoralising.

 

[Bebe]

Obviously in the larger context Jay-Z won, though both will rightfully claim a place among the pantheon of hip-hop greats. I prefer Nas as a rapper, but recently I've been listening to a lot of Jay-Z's earlier albums (Reasonable Doubt up to the Black Album). Jay-Z's new stuff I have no time for, but there are some gems in those albums.

I also read his autobiography over Xmas this year, very good read and worthwhile for any hip hop enthusiast.

One of Jay-Z's lines in the Takeover about Nas having a "one good album every 5 years" was pretty good I thought.

 

[ArmchairCritic]

I think you are applying standards that are too highbrow to rap beefs which are essentially fought on the same level as a playground argument.

Nas won because he tailored his argument to essentially what most who are interested in rap beefs want to hear; gutter insults.

The fact that Takeover includes more factual information and better lyrical content is lost on most because they either aren't listening closely enough or are swayed by the ferocity of Nas delivery on Ether as opposed to Jay-Z "no problem I got this" attitude and delivery style on Takeover.

Ether has plenty of factual information if you aren't suckered in by the 'ferocity' of Nas' delivery.

 

[Zarlak]

The whole concept of rap beefs amuse me. Because one rapper says something mean about another rapper in his song, all of a sudden there is a huge issue and he responds by saying another mean line about the original rapper in his song. I have worse arguments or 'beef' on the fecking internet.

 

[BAMSOLA]

Ether has plenty of factual information if you aren't suckered in by the 'ferocity' of Nas' delivery.

No doubt, but not as much as Takeover, its also not lyrically as intricate which is why Ether works a whole lot better as far as the dynamics of Rap battle work.

 

[Vato]

These fools got nuthin' on Vanilla Ice yo, fo real.

 

[Inspectah deck]

As a song...
Takeover >> Ether
As a diss....
Ether >> Takeover

 

[BAMSOLA]

As a song...
Takeover >> Ether
As a diss....
Ether >> Takeover

My point precisely.

 

[Joemo]

Nas is the better artist, Jay-Z has the better career. As far as the disses go, I agree that I just can't look past things like "feck Gay-Z" and "Cockafella records wanted beef". It seems to contain a lot more playground-lyrics and nothing more than petty homophobia compared to Takeover, so I guess for me, Jay wins.

 

[Adzzz]

Illmatic is a work of great importance. Fair enough, then NaS faded into finally dropping shit like Streets Disciple, while Jay-Z was becoming the pre-eminent force in mainstream hip-hop, mainly due to dropping the Blueprint which is one of the great hip-hop albums of all time.

The point I was making was down to that .GIF which wildly misrepresents what actually happened, i.e. Jay-Z never got knocked out by NaS in any sense, certainly not by Ether.

 

[JP77]

Jaysus, never heard the clip of Jay bubbling up, the big wimp!

In terms of the actual beef, which was stupid, I feel Nas won. Ether is a classic.

But then, Jay-Z is widely considered the best of all time. So looking at the bigger picture, Jay won.

By who? feck me, Jay Z the best of all time? Dear oh dear

Nas won this by a landslide, it wasn't really even close either.

 

[ArmchairCritic]

Illmatic is a work of great importance. Fair enough, then NaS faded into finally dropping shit like Streets Disciple, while Jay-Z was becoming the pre-eminent force in mainstream hip-hop, mainly due to dropping the Blueprint which is one of the great hip-hop albums of all time.

The point I was making was down to that .GIF which wildly misrepresents what actually happened, i.e. Jay-Z never got knocked out by NaS in any sense, certainly not by Ether.

I'd say Ether at the time was akin to a Stunner, which after all is a Wrestling move which actually doesn't really hurt.

 

[ArmchairCritic]

Some serious underrating of Jay-Z as an MC going on here too.

 

[Adzzz]

I'd say Ether at the time was akin to a Stunner, which after all is a Wrestling move which actually doesn't really hurt.

Didn't really stun Jay's career but since the song NaS has been on the downward spiral to obscurity.

 

[ArmchairCritic]

Didn't really stun Jay's career but since the song NaS has been on the downward spiral to obscurity.

No, Nas was spiralling before Ether and Stillmatic, Jay-Z actually helped spark him again. Yeah Nas isn't a big name in the mainstream but he can still drop sharp verses and Life Is Good was a solid album. He's not obscure at all.

 

[Bebe]

Some serious underrating of Jay-Z as an MC going on here too.

Yep. I think his later years warp people's perceptions.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

By who? feck me, Jay Z the best of all time? Dear oh dear

Nas won this by a landslide, it wasn't really even close either.

Where have you been the past ten years? A hell of a lot of people consider Jay-Z to be one of the greatest. Whether that has anything to do with him having a much bigger fan base to Nas, I don't know.

And I agree that Jay-Z is being under appreciated as an emcee here, he's not one of my favourites but feck me, he's very talented.

 

[Aboutreika18]

Jay-Z would probably be more widely considered one of the greatest of all-time if he'd produced more of the quality of Reasonable Doubt, rather than the mostly watered-down bollocks that followed.

Nas' Illmatic is a timeless classic and while he's fluctuated between brilliant and mediocre, his overall work is still a great deal of a lot better than Jay-Z, IMO.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

Blueprint and Black Album were both brilliant. American Gangster was also great.

 

[JP77]

Where have you been the past ten years? A hell of a lot of people consider Jay-Z to be one of the greatest. Whether that has anything to do with him having a much bigger fan base to Nas, I don't know.

And I agree that Jay-Z is being under appreciated as an emcee here, he's not one of my favourites but feck me, he's very talented.

No, the line was how people regarded him as THE GREATEST. Sure, go ahead, defend that and him, but yeah, that's a sheer amount of bollocks and he's nowhere near the greatest of all time (and when I say that, I don't mean it's bollocks that there's people that say that, because I know some regard him as the greatest).

That's not underrating him what so ever. At no point have I said he's not good/great, but I'm not under some mental illusion that he's the greatest ever.

 

[RK]

Before this all kicked off in the General I'd heard of Jay-Z. I hadn't heard of Nas or Illmatic.

Jay-Z must've won.

 

[Andrew~]

Jay Z got burned, hard. And the idea that rap beefs are decided over who has the better career seems silly. They went at it at the time, and in my opinion, Jay Z didn't come back with anything that could get past the the ferocity of Ether and that's why I would say Nas 'won'.

I love both their music but on balance I would have to say Nas the better rapper. Jay Z makes good music but nothing he makes will ever reach the level of Illmatic. Nas is the better lyricist and writer, but Jay Z makes good mainstream music. It's not a slight on him because unlike most hip hop fans on here, I actually like mainstream stuff.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

No, the line was how people regarded him as THE GREATEST. Sure, go ahead, defend that and him, but yeah, that's a sheer amount of bollocks and he's nowhere near the greatest of all time (and when I say that, I don't mean it's bollocks that there's people that say that, because I know some regard him as the greatest).

That's not underrating him what so ever. At no point have I said he's not good/great, but I'm not under some mental illusion that he's the greatest ever.

Why is it so far-fetched to consider Jay-Z one of the greatest ever? Out of interest.

 

[JP77]

Why is it so far-fetched to consider Jay-Z one of the greatest ever? Out of interest.

Why do you keep saying that? THE GREATEST. Not ONE OF THE GREATEST.

I'm not sure why it's so hard for you to grasp that point. It's not too far fetched to claim he's one of the greatest, but yes, it's far fetched to claim he's THE GREATEST, because he isn't (even though I'm sure you'll tell me it's all down to opinion and debatable).

 

[KiD MoYeS]

Why do you keep saying that? THE GREATEST. Not ONE OF THE GREATEST.

I'm not sure why it's so hard for you to grasp that point. It's not too far fetched to claim he's one of the greatest, but yes, it's far fetched to claim he's THE GREATEST, because he isn't (even though I'm sure you'll tell me it's all down to opinion and debatable).

There is no greatest, but yeah he is one of the all time greats of hip-hop.

 

[Bebe]

Jay Z got burned, hard. And the idea that rap beefs are decided over who has the better career seems silly. They went at it at the time, and in my opinion, Jay Z didn't come back with anything that could get past the the ferocity of Ether and that's why I would say Nas 'won'.

I love both their music but on balance I would have to say Nas the better rapper. Jay Z makes good music but nothing he makes will ever reach the level of Illmatic. Nas is the better lyricist and writer, but Jay Z makes good mainstream music. It's not a slight on him because unlike most hip hop fans on here, I actually like mainstream stuff.

Jay-Z's earlier work I wouldn't consider mainstream. At least not in the way that I understand the term, ie pop you hear on the radio, usually featuring Rihanna.