Nba 2012-13

[gooDevil]

Oh god I had a good laugh with my friends about someone thinking LeBron is better than Oscar Robertson...

And didn't someone claim Wilt Chamberlain was better than Bill Russell....dear god. Russell owned Wilt, period.

 

[Eboue]

You can make the case for Robertson above Lebron but Russell over Chamberlain? Give me a fecking break. That's a joke, right?

 

[Eboue]

Honestly, what are you going to come out with next, Rocket Richard > Mario Lemieux? Phil Rizzuto > Joe Morgan? Joe Namath > Dan Marino?

 

[gooDevil]

Well, let's consider that when they played against each other, Russell owned Chamberlain.

You see, this is where you need to actually watch basketball, not just read stats.

Just ask someone who was actually alive and watching basketball back then.

 

[Eboue]

How old are you?

 

[Eboue]

Well, let's consider that when they played against each other, Russell owned Chamberlain.

You see, this is where you need to actually watch basketball, not just read stats.

Just ask someone who was actually alive and watching basketball back then.

Honestly goodevil. I read your posts all over this forum. You are a smart guy. This is just incredibly wrong.



Head to Head stats

Chamberlain - 29 PPG, 29 RPG
Russell - 15 PPG, 24 RPG



On what planet do you spend most of your time?

 

[gooDevil]

Well, according to you I spend most of my time on planet smart!

I wasn't alive to see these two play either, I'm happy to admit. I'm also one who believes that defense is just as important as offense, where Wilt can't compare to Russell. From what I've heard from my basketball following elder family members is that Russell was the better player.

Obviously Wilt is a superior offensive player, and a far more complete offensive weapon. Wilt was a phenomenon, no doubt.

Also I have to admit I like ribbing Wilt fans.

 

[gooDevil]

Oh, and Russell's 5 MVP awards.

 

[JaffyJoe]

Russell was the smarter player and better teammate but Russell was more talented if he was a better teammate like he became later in his career he would have won more. Chamberlain is the better player its not close like.

 

[gooDevil]

Another one who was watching basketball in the 60s, no doubt...

 

[Eboue]

Oh, and Russell's 5 MVP awards.

Three of which were directly stolen from Wilt in consecutive years.

1960-61

Russell - 17 PPG, 24 RPG, 43 FG%
Chamberlain - 43 PPG, 27 RPG, 51 FG%

1961-62

Russell - 19 PPG, 24 RPG, 46 FG%
Chamberlain - 50 PPG, 26 RPG, 51 FG%

1962-63

Russell - 17 PPG, 24 RPG, 43 FG%
Chamberlain - 45 PPG, 24 RPG, 53 FG%

 

[JaffyJoe]

Another one who was watching basketball in the 60s, no doubt...

? Where you watching Chamberlain is the clear better player he had an offensive game Russell could not match while Russell would have been slightly better on defense but in one on one matchups Chamberlain consistently had the better of Russell. You don't need to have watched to have the sense the Chamberlain was the better player. The fact Russell is the ultimate champion is what keeps him in the conversation but teams win titles not individuals.

 

[Scrumpet]

Was that the basketball equivalent of missing an open goal?

 

[MrMarcello]

Big finish to the first period for the Spurs.

Wade was majestic in Game 4 and started off good this game but faded by the end of the first period. If the Heat win it LBJ will get the MVP obviously but Wade would be the player that turned the series around. He'll need to play similar to Game 4 for the Heat to win out (assuming none of the others step up if he struggles). When the Big Two (Plus one)* score over 70 they're hard to beat.

*Big Two (Plus One) - Bosh is the plus one. I still don't consider him a superstar. I don't recall the Bulls with Grant/Rodman being labelled a Big Three, or the Lakers with Worthy, and those players were just as important for those title winning sides.

 

[ha_rooney]

Good half, Spurs very good offensively but Miami still hanging on.

 

[ILBB15]

I just don't understand how you as a coach can put Norris Cole to guard Parker on the last possession of the half when Cole hasn't been able to keep Parker infront of him when he's been driving to the basket in all the previous occasions in the 1st half. This is stuff the average fan notices watching the game half-arsed.

 

[TheBest]

Green is just in a different zone

 

[MrMarcello]

Danny Green has been unconscious this series. Can't hit anything inside 18-feet but shooting near 70% from 3-pt land.

 

[JaffyJoe]

Great game end to end Spurs keeping the tempo up and just saw Lebron looking tired needs a rest.

 

[TheBest]

This seems over.

 

[Pscholes18]

Most likely but Spurs need to slow it down.

 

[Pscholes18]

FFS, Spurs imploding.

 

[Pscholes18]

Look like Green just sealed it.

 

[MrMarcello]

Twenty is often far too much to overcome in the fourth quarter. A side like OKC might have crumbled, like the Magic did against the veteran Rockets in 1995. But the Spurs are a veteran side and kept the tempo at their level. They were in control pretty much for the final 18-20 minutes.

 

[ILBB15]

That was Man Utd's first start of the season and his best performance in ages, turns out it was a great decision by Pop to start him. He got into the flow of the game immediately, dishing out some nice passes and scoring in that 1st quarter, then completely took over the game late in the 3rd during Spurs most crucial run.

 

[Kevin]

What can I say, Mr. Marcello, I am a fickle cnut.

Miami will win this series in 6.

Lawlzies.

 

[Shinjisan]

Great move by Pop to start Man Utd, one his most experienced players, in a game that he needed to win. The championship would have definitely stayed in Miami if they lost the game. Well played San Antonio.

Wade started well but then again lost his way. 'GOAT' again failed to grab the game by the scruff of the neck. GOAT!

Miami will win this series in 7.

 

[Revan]

Great move by Pop to start Man Utd, one his most experienced players, in a game that he needed to win. The championship would have definitely stayed in Miami if they lost the game. Well played San Antonio.

Wade started well but then again lost his way. 'GOAT' again failed to grab the game by the scruff of the neck. GOAT!

Miami will win this series in 7.

Why people call him sarcastically GOAT? Is anyone who really think that James is the best ever? If yes, shame on him.

 

[MrMarcello]

I don't get the need for people to claim athletes the best ever while still playing (same with the Messi-hype). Put it all into perspective after the careers are over, or when they've played like 15 years.

 

[Shinjisan]

Why people call him sarcastically GOAT? Is anyone who really think that James is the best ever? If yes, shame on him.

I read it here for the first time. I liked it and now use it sarcastically whenever I am talking about him.

 

[Revan]

I don't get the need for people to claim athletes the best ever while still playing (same with the Messi-hype). Put it all into perspective after the careers are over, or when they've played like 15 years.

To be fair, Messi has a good claim for it, and a World Cup medal would only confirm it. James has still much to do, personally I don't think that he is even in Bryant's level yet, though potentially he can become better. I really doubt that he will ever be near as good as Jordan.

 

[MrMarcello]

Another thing is at what position does one compare LBJ to? He plays all over for the Heat. I've always seen him as a SF ala Pippen - great ball-handling skills, range, defense, and passing, granted he's easily surpassed Pippen. But if you put him at PF he's not better than Duncan, Malone, Barkley (who did all of it at 6'4), Dirk, and possibly a handful of others. And he's not a SG at all nor does he play the actual PG although he's easily the best mix of PG and SF/PF since Magic yet I would take Magic every day over LBJ and twice on Sunday. For me, Magic is the 2ndGOAT of all-time with apologies to Wilt/Bill who played in an era that was lacking top tier talent.

So at SF he's arguably the best ever. Better than Bird, Baylor, Havlicek, Erving?

 

[Shinjisan]

LeBron doesn't have the stomach for it. In order to be classified as the greatest of all time having that is as important as possessing immense talent

 

[Eboue]

I think James will be at the very least 3rd best player ever when he is done. He could pass Jordan. Honestly, some of the guys you mentioned aren't even close to as good as Lebron.

Lebron just did 27/8/7 on 57% shooting with a block and two steals per game. He's averaged 6 assists every year he has been in the league, 7 rebounds every year since he has been a rookie. He has won with teams that had no other options and required him to dominate. He has won by taking a step back and facilitating. He can guard any position on the court. He can play point guard or dominate from the low post. He's improved his shooting percentage every year since 2006.

Kevin Durant had 28/8/5 as only the sixth person ever to shoot 50/40/90 and LeBron blew him away for the MVP.



If you compare Jordan to James at their age 28 seasons, Jordan comes out ahead but not by much. James was a better rebounder and three point shooter, Jordan was a better scorer. If Lebron picks up the pace and doesn't decide to be horrible at minor league baseball then it's certainly possible for him to pass MJ.


And Kobe? No way. Here is a comparison of their first ten seasons.

Lebron - 28/7/7 - 49/34/75
Kobe - 24/5/5 - 45/34/83

 

[Eboue]

LeBron doesn't have the stomach for it. In order to be classified as the greatest of all time having that is as important as possessing immense talent

What does that mean?

 

[Zen]

Jordan only played like 25 games at the point and averaged something ridiculous like 30/10/9 with 3 steals......guy was insane talent. which we know, I don't LeBron will take over him, probably won't come close in my mind(a distant 2nd). Yes his career stats may be more rounded, but Jordan would of been capable of similar stats if he HAD to play like that like LeBron kinda has had to all his career(Wade was supposed to lower his workload a bit, but he's fading fast). You could put Jordan at center for the Brooklyn Nets and he'd show Brook Lopez a thing or two about rebounding while outscoring him and probably getting more blocks.

LeBron will probably go down as the 2nd best all round, he's already about Kobe for me. Kobe just got the luck and got Lakers......had he had to carry the Kings for 8 years before moving, where does he stand? Probably have more MVP's, less rings. Bird and Magic again had superb supporting casts, as did Jordan of course, and so does LeBron now....but I still think LeBron/Jordan have had to carry more weight on their teams wins than the others had.

 

[elmo]

Shaq still above LeBron for me at this time, he was near unplayable for a period of time and the only way to stop him was to foul him.

For all of LeBron's physical gift and talents, it's a shame he doesn't have the ruthlessness to just take over games the way MJ and Kobe does. LeBron seems to think that as long as he makes the smart play, it'll be the right play, but sometimes teams just need their star player to take over the game and just end the opponents hope by watching him score repeatedly on them.

 

[elmo]

Great move by Pop to start Man Utd, one his most experienced players, in a game that he needed to win. The championship would have definitely stayed in Miami if they lost the game. Well played San Antonio.

Wade started well but then again lost his way. 'GOAT' again failed to grab the game by the scruff of the neck. GOAT!

Miami will win this series in 7.

I hope your jinx works, mate.

 

[Eboue]

He does take over games though. What about when he 45-15-5 on 74% shooting on the road in an elimination game? Or when he did 37-12-11 against Chicago on 65% shooting. Or 40-18-9 against Indiana last year? Or his game one triple double? Or 48-9-7 in game 5 of the ECF where he scored 29 of the Cavalier's last 30 to win in 2OT.

 

[elmo]

He does take over games though. What about when he 45-15-5 on 74% shooting on the road in an elimination game? Or when he did 37-12-11 against Chicago on 65% shooting. Or 40-18-9 against Indiana last year? Or his game one triple double? Or 48-9-7 in game 5 of the ECF where he scored 29 of the Cavalier's last 30 to win in 2OT.

That's the thing though, he needs to do it more often, it's maddening to see someone with his talent, just giving the ball to his team mates, when they're playing badly. It's true LeBron gets unfairly judged based on who he is, but the truth is that he's truly a unique player with no peer in terms of all-round talent combined with his athletic gifts and he really could be doing more.