[Foxbatt]

I think these two drop just as deep sometime and it makes sense as it is a method also used in other teams to create a temporary back-3 to make the builtup easier. But Fred dropping deep to provide a pass option isn't as noticable because when he moves deep he will move back into midfield eventually. Some goes for McTominay even though he doesn't do it with the same enthusiasm.

Matic is mostly trying to avoid pressure and therefore evades it. We either find a way to create more easy passing options or we have to live with him doing that.

yes he is on a personal level but it puts pressure on the rest of the team when they have one less player in midfield for the defence to pass the ball.

 

[OrcaFat]

If we switch to a single pivot, it will change lots of dynamics. If roles change, performances might change. If we have two 8 working more for the offensive game, it might not be needed to have a midfielder "that can pull the strings" as long as the 8s are doing a good job. Plus: Remember who will play at Centerback for us.

I thought, Fred did the single pivot job pretty fine today. Better than I would have expected and he showed some shielding techniques I hadn't seen him use. I know, he isn't known to be a DM but he might fit the new role description unexpectedly well.

I can understand, that Matic is well liked and I agree, he might be useful for us but he is the past - just like Mata. Giving them gametime, in my eyes just takes minutes from other players either getting more used to a role or young players we would love to see their actual potential (like Garner). I know, Matic is currently well above them in a lot of relevant aspects but for me, playing him is pointless - he can be alright, today I thought he was fine but I would struggle to give him more than a 6.5 out of ten. That is good, no question but is it good enough that we delay working on the future in this part of the team?

Matic is not up to it anymore. He can turn in a decent cameo when the pressure is off or when the opposition is either poor or knackered.

No doubt he is a class player from whom the younger players should, in theory, learn. But we don’t want our players doing some of the stuff he does to compensate for his declining faculties. With Maguire and Varane at CB, we will never need a DM going back there to get the ball. Being able to drop in at CB when Maguire goes on a charge is useful but Matic’s default position is often too deep.

I’m inclined to agree that playing him in these friendlies has been of limited benefit to the development of the squad.

Overall I want him as an emergency / relief player only.

 

[VanDeBank]

Matic is not up to it anymore. He can turn in a decent cameo when the pressure is off or when the opposition is either poor or knackered.

No doubt he is a class player from whom the younger players should, in theory, learn. But we don’t want our players doing some of the stuff he does to compensate for his declining faculties. With Maguire and Varane at CB, we will never need a DM going back there to get the ball. Being able to drop in at CB when Maguire goes on a charge is useful but Matic’s default position is often too deep.

I’m inclined to agree that playing him in these friendlies has been of limited benefit to the development of the squad.

Overall I want him as an emergency / relief player only.

Varane is poor on the ball for an elite CB. Not Kimpembe's levels of bad, but clearly worse than Maguire (who I feel is massively overrated around here for his ability on the ball)

So I completely disagree, we actually do need a player that's good at dropping down and getting on the ball. Matic can be good back up to that player, he's just not capable of playing 90 minute matches twice a week.

 

[OrcaFat]

Varane is poor on the ball for an elite CB. Not Kimpembe's levels of bad, but clearly worse than Maguire (who I feel is massively overrated around here for his ability on the ball)

So I completely disagree, we actually do need a player that's good at dropping down and getting on the ball. Matic can be good back up to that player, he's just not capable of playing 90 minute matches twice a week.

Yep that’s the opposite of what I think.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Varane is poor on the ball for an elite CB.

Get out.

He’s good on the ball for an elite CB. Is he “elite on the ball”? No, but he’s every bit as good on the ball as the majority of elite CB’s of the 00’s.

 

[Foxbatt]

This is silly. When he doesn't play neither of our midfield players drop that deep and we still are able to play as well as when drops deep.
It's much better for him to get up into midfield and let the two CBs do their job. By being in midfield he is certainly occupying space the opposition would have plus he is also making an opposition player having to mark him.

 

[Dorris]

This is silly. When he doesn't play neither of our midfield players drop that deep and we still are able to play as well as when drops deep.
It's much better for him to get up into midfield and let the two CBs do their job. By being in midfield he is certainly occupying space the opposition would have plus he is also making an opposition player having to mark him.

It’s clearly instructed, most top teams build with 3 at the back these days.

 

[Foxbatt]

It’s clearly instructed, most top teams build with 3 at the back these days.

We don't. Only Matic when he plays drop so deep.

 

[NZT-One]

We don't. Only Matic when he plays drop so deep.

We did last year. A lot of teams work with a temporary back-3 in the builtup, fullbacks push forward to create width, CB divide to make better use of the space and a midfielder falls inbetween. Fred and McTominay did it, even though I am not sure, if they have fallen as deep as Matic does on average. But the method in itself is executed for a while.

There isn't a problem with the method itself, of course it is something that the manager is fine with. The issues result from the fact that it takes Matic years to push back into midfield after doing this method, and then he is missed in midfield when the ball is further up the pitch. There is no question, the whole team looks more connected/cohesive as soon as Fred is on the pitch. His workrates enables him to be at so many places in quick succession. That creates more passing options and a quicker play, even though he is different good passing-wise compared to Matic.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

We don't. Only Matic when he plays drop so deep.

I don’t think that is true at all. Fred and McT both constantly dropped back in there but maybe because they are quicker to get back out it’s not as noticeable. Matic does tend to hang around back there.

However the problem for me in this is that Bruno effectively plays as a 2nd striker. At one point against Wolves last year we played Matic, Pogba and Bruno. Matic spent half the night in defence and Bruno had decided he couldn’t be arsed being a midfielder which left Pogba by himself with no easy passing options and he got absolutely dominated on the pitch and slaughtered on the CAF for losing the ball.

Later in the game Ole brought on Shaw and Matic got out of defence and we started to play properly.

I feel this conversation is had every few months in that everyone knows in theory Matic is the best DM at his best but he only ever is at his best for very short periods of time and then really starts to struggle with the tempo. We need a long term replacement but if we really want to go 433 with Pogba and Bruno they both need to change how they play. Then we leave Matic for the cup games or easy fodder with legs and ability around him so he can play nice little passing triangles.

 

[VanDeBank]

Get out.

He’s good on the ball for an elite CB. Is he “elite on the ball”? No, but he’s every bit as good on the ball as the majority of elite CB’s of the 00’s.

Which elite CBs do you think are worse on the ball? Kimpbebe. Can you name 5 more? (Elite = starting for BM, RM, Juve, Inter, PSG, top 4 PL). If like you say he's "good on the ball for an elite CB" he should be in the top half.

 

[Borys]

I don’t think that is true at all. Fred and McT both constantly dropped back in there but maybe because they are quicker to get back out it’s not as noticeable. Matic does tend to hang around back there.

However the problem for me in this is that Bruno effectively plays as a 2nd striker. At one point against Wolves last year we played Matic, Pogba and Bruno. Matic spent half the night in defence and Bruno had decided he couldn’t be arsed being a midfielder which left Pogba by himself with no easy passing options and he got absolutely dominated on the pitch and slaughtered on the CAF for losing the ball.

Later in the game Ole brought on Shaw and Matic got out of defence and we started to play properly.

I feel this conversation is had every few months in that everyone knows in theory Matic is the best DM at his best but he only ever is at his best for very short periods of time and then really starts to struggle with the tempo. We need a long term replacement but if we really want to go 433 with Pogba and Bruno they both need to change how they play. Then we leave Matic for the cup games or easy fodder with legs and ability around him so he can play nice little passing triangles.

I never understood the need for Matic to drop so deep, especially since he's not uncomfortable in the middle, can hold to the ball, and has excellent balance. If Maguire/other CB is driving forward than fine (McTominay does it as well), but why we need 3 playmakers in defensive line? It effectively leaves us with one man midfield, because guess what, Bruno is a second striker despite some people calling him a midfielder. He's not really supporting the midfield two much.

 

[VanDeBank]

I never understood the need for Matic to drop so deep, especially since he's not uncomfortable in the middle, can hold to the ball, and has excellent balance. If Maguire/other CB is driving forward than fine (McTominay does it as well), but why we need 3 playmakers in defensive line? It effectively leaves us with one man midfield, because guess what, Bruno is a second striker despite some people calling him a midfielder. He's not really supporting the midfield two much.

It's an instructed tactic, nothing to do with Matic's decision making on the pitch. And who are these 3 playmakers at the back you're referring to? Most of our defenders are not playmakers and we don't have an Alaba type.

 

[Borys]

It's an instructed tactic, nothing to do with Matic's decision making on the pitch. And who are these 3 playmakers at the back you're referring to? Most of our defenders are not playmakers and we don't have an Alaba type.

I think so as well, it certainly seems like he's following instructions.
Our CBs see more of the ball than any other players, often followed by Shaw. Maguire, Lindelof and Luke act as playmakers in our team. Makes no sense for Matic to drop into defensive line in that case.

 

[NZT-One]

I think so as well, it certainly seems like he's following instructions.
Our CBs see more of the ball than any other players, often followed by Shaw. Maguire, Lindelof and Luke act as playmakers in our team. Makes no sense for Matic to drop into defensive line in that case.

I think it is an instruction and it fits Matic to a tee. I think, these days he has this tendency to drop deeper and deeper (just like Scholes and Carrick at one point when they realised that recovery pace isn't there anymore. I would argue, we've seen it when Matic played next to Pogba for a while, this midfield wasn't working too well because it was very immobile and therefore our offense was pretty isolated (which emphasized the subpar quality of Lingard and Perreira).

As I said, I don't think, dropping in between the defense for builtup is an issue - as long as the the player who drops deep pushes up into midfield once the builtup is more progressed. Fred does it, McTominay does it, Matic does it but he does it way slower so it is hard to recognize. Which in itself is underlined in our efforts to accelerate or even skip built up by trying vertical killer balls as soon possible.

 

[Devil may care]

The role he played today, last 25 minute mopper, is what I expect him to be used for this season.

 

[Poborsky's hair]

The role he played today, last 25 minute mopper, is what I expect him to be used for this season.

No wonder we were so open to be honest. I don't see our title hopes being so high for so long if we really don't go for a proper DM.

 

[SSSSnake]

Please Jose take him to Rome.

 

[Zoo]

Tragic watching him nowadays. This is on Ole for picking him though.

 

[ha_rooney]

Shouldn’t have started, should’ve been taken off a lot earlier. Absolutely awful & he’s done against any team that applies a bit of pressing.

 

[Giant Midget]

Have some fecking shame and retire. Absolutely awful. Could stick my nan in midfield and we’d play with more urgency, and she’s fecking dead.

 

[Adam-Utd]

awful. he just can’t move his feet fast enough anymore. when he’s got time and space he can pass well, but southampton is probably the worst side he can face to bring that out of him.

While fred wasn’t great either at least he’s still got the legs, no idea how he lasted 85 minutes.

 

[Silas]

Statić

 

[The United]

Kept touching the ball until it went to an opponent player. That's how he played this game.

 

[Lay]

Static Matic

 

[Litch]

That is as poor as it gets.....

 

[Red Stone]

If he was a horse he'd have been turned into glue by now.

 

[villain]

His legs were gone 2 years ago, we're crying out for a new midfielder.

 

[zurnalist]

Would be interested to see his stats for the game. How much did he lose the ball? 5-6 times?

Him and Fred with a 1/10 performance... combined

 

[RedDevilRoshi]

Just unfortunately can’t rely on him anymore.

 

[E-mal]

He is poor, has no business still on the payroll. Guy must feel lucky to still be with Manutd.

 

[ivaldo]

He's been shit for 3 fecking years. But going by some posters here this ponderous, disinterested, negative style of anti-football has been something to laud. He hasn't suddenly turned bad; he's been like this for almost the entire time he's been at the club. And people have the cheek to complain about Fred or McTominay any time they have to play with, sorry, in front of Matic as he holds the CBs hands and watches on as his midfield partner tries to run the middle of the park on their own.

 

[kouroux]

If he was a horse he'd have been turned into glue by now.

Or steak in some countries

 

[E-mal]

Shouldn’t have started, should’ve been taken off a lot earlier. Absolutely awful & he’s done against any team that applies a bit of pressing.

Very funny but true.
Having him and Maguire in build up is fecking boring man.

 

[Idxomer]

Why?!!

 

[DWelbz19]

Just simply cannot start a serious game again.

 

[Dr Foo]

Am a fan of his qualities, but this is not the game for him. Could we not have played VDB instead? We are lightweight in the centre midfield once Mctominay is out. Hopefully this means more urgency to get a midfielder in before the window closes

 

[LoneStar]

This guy is done at the top level. Age has caught up with him. He is a second slower than every other player in tackling or passing. Every opposition manager would be happy to see his name on the sheet.

Just need to press him lightly and he'll give the ball away. If we start him against a top pressing side, it'll be a bloodbath.

 

[Ivor Ballokov]

He takes a touch and then starts to fall over, his legs are well and truly gone.

He was always mediocre, now it's just embarrassing.

 

[flappyjay]

I said it amongst all the excitement when he signed his last contract. We should have never done it. He is absolutely finished. I used to think he holds on to the ball on purpose, I am starting to think he has poor vision. Even when a team mate is open he will take some many touches until he releases the ball or gets dispossessed.