Those who know more than we do gave Jones a 4 years contract few years ago, and recently a 3+1 to Bailly.Matas contribution goes further than his game time. Behind match days, a lot of the younger players benefit from his presence. Hes obviously worth the extension, to those who know more than we do.
True. We have Carrick (and Fletcher, to certain extend) who young players can "look up to". A player that actually played a major part of United success for years, and not there as a mascot or writing diaries. Then there is the lovable Cavani who's still one of the best striker at 35 y.o. to be a "role model". There is also Matic here.Everytime he comes on in the 75th or the 80th minute in a game where were already winning comfortably, thats minutes we're misallocating. It should be given to the likes of Amad and Hannibal. This has been going on for 3~ years now.. Shocking how it's been defended by some. If it's his presence that is desired, then maybe in some other coaching capacity then ?
Agreed unless player is good enough to contribute positively on the field there is no point keeping them in the squad for so called experience and good influence that's the job of the management and coaching staff that's why they are paid big bucks .True. We have Carrick (and Fletcher, to certain extend) who young players can "look up to". A player that actually played a major part of United success for years, and not there as a mascot or writing diaries. Then there is the lovable Cavani who's still one of the best striker at 35 y.o. to be a "role model". There is also Matic here.
How many fecking "role model" do the youngsters need? This is just stupid.
Agreed, mate. Cavani is actually a perfect "role model" that we should get. He's still very useful on the pitch, while his guidance is obvious to youngsters.Agreed unless player is good enough to contribute positively on the field there is no point keeping them in the squad for so called experience and good influence that's the job of the management and coaching staff that's why they are paid big bucks .
For all the winners and experience we had in the team when Sir Alex retired they could not prevent a shit show of a season due to Moyes ineptitude as well them being past it.
So forgive me if I don't buy this experience argument when players aren't good enough on the field.
I think the only question on Lingard, is whether we trade in for another player, or just plain cash. Trade-in has some implication on player recruitment.This suggests that we might end up selling Lingard
Which other team in the PL has a fourth choice keeper? I am sure the u23 team has a goal keeper. If we ever have an emergency in that area he would be the one to fill in.You have to have experienced players in the squad. The keepers are our 3rd and 4th choice, no half decent young keeper should ever accept that role. Very bizarre thing to be concerned about. Mata is younger than Ronaldo, no one would complain about his age if he was in the squad. He has a role in the squad and it's a big squad. We probably have the youngest squad in the Prem.
One positive comes out of handing our charitable contracts to playersThis suggests that we might end up selling Lingard
I think the only question on Lingard, is whether we trade in for another player, or just plain cash. Trade-in has some implication on player recruitment.
If the plan is to sell Lingard while his value is high and keep Mata only for the numbers then it makes sense instead of doing it the other way around. But if we keep both of them then it's madness. Then again we have given Lee Grant an extension and signed Heaton so...One positive comes out of handing our charitable contracts to players
Matas contribution goes further than his game time. Behind match days, a lot of the younger players benefit from his presence. Hes obviously worth the extension, to those who know more than we do.
Make him a coach then and replace him with a player who will be effective on the pitch. It’s pointless having passengers in the squad. The most involvement he will get is league cup games and some sub appearances.Matas contribution goes further than his game time. Behind match days, a lot of the younger players benefit from his presence. Hes obviously worth the extension, to those who know more than we do.
I'm not holding my breath. One good step forward with Sancho followed by extensions for Mata and Grant. I mean... Mata's place could have gone to someone like Elanga, Diallo, Mejbri. As for Grant - played one league cup game in 3 years.If the plan is to sell Lingard while his value is high and keep Mata only for the numbers then it makes sense instead of doing it the other way around. But if we keep both of them then it's madness. Then again we have given Lee Grant an extension and signed Heaton so...
I get your point but it's kind or irrelevant, because they are not exactly there to start, we clearly value what else they offer. We have one of the youngest squads in the league.Which other team in the PL has a fourth choice keeper? I am sure the u23 team has a goal keeper. If we ever have an emergency in that area he would be the one to fill in.
I struggle to accept that as well tbh. We've already got Ole, Phelan, Fletcher, Clegg, Dempsey and Carrick as former players. Grant seem to be joining the group pretty soon. How many former players do these players need?Make him a coach then and replace him with a player who will be effective on the pitch. It’s pointless having passengers in the squad. The most involvement he will get is league cup games and some sub appearances.
Ideally you would want experience on the pitch. Out of that list only Cavani and DDG might make it to first team.This seems a bizarre hang up for some people.
We only have 6 players in our squad over 30 if I'm not mistaken -
Matic
Mata
Cavani
Heaton - GK
Grant - GK
DDG - GK
Three of them are only here for one more year - Grant, Cavani & Mata
Two could well leave this summer - Matic & DDG
One is our 2nd or 3rd choice GK - Heaton
Beyond that, we don't have too many experienced players, especially with Pogba possibly off this year or next.
And if you don't have too much on the pitch then you definitely want it in your squad and to have them training with the players. The experience of Grant and Heaton will be perfect for a young GK like Henderson.Ideally you would want experience on the pitch. Out of that list only Cavani and DDG might make it to first team.
The 3+1 for Bailly was to keep his value if we sell him rather than lose him on a free. Makes sense.Those who know more than we do gave Jones a 4 years contract few years ago, and recently a 3+1 to Bailly.
Not like they make the wisest decisions all the time.
Experience is needed on the pitch. Think of how many time Cantona bailed us out, how Roy Keane was able to defeat Juventus practically on his own or how Bayern collapsed in that famous CL final once their manager removed Lothar Matthaus from the team. I believe that we wouldn't have won the CL that year if Lothar remained till the end. Anyway that's were experience matters not having former players on the bench cheerleading especially when we're talking about a club who already have enough former players working as coaches, assistant managers and of course the manager himself.And if you don't have too much on the pitch then you definitely want it in your squad and to have them training with the players. The experience of Grant and Heaton will be perfect for a young GK like Henderson.
Let's see if Matic or DDG even stay beyond the summer. Then we are down to Mata, Cavani, Heaton, Grant in the over 30s club. Three of them leaving next summer.
Seems reasonable to me.
Why does being over 30 stand out at the criteria that defines experience?Ideally you would want experience on the pitch. Out of that list only Cavani and DDG might make it to first team.
Oh so you think top coaches have to have been the best players then? Because they couldn't possibly teach them something if not, going by your logic.Experience is needed on the pitch. Think of how many time Cantona bailed us out, how Roy Keane was able to defeat Juventus practically on his own or how Bayern collapsed in that famous CL final once their manager removed Lothar Matthaus from the team. That's were experience matter. Having former players in all but name sitting on the bench is pathetic really especially at a club were it already have enough former players working as coaches, assistant managers and of course the manager himself.
I also struggle what on earth can someone who spent his career playing with teams like Burnley, Cardiff and Bristol possibly teach to Henderson. I understand the experience thing if we signed Buffon but Heaton and Grant? Its like someone expecting a very promising chef working in a Michelin star restaurant to learn from someone who spent 20 years of his life flipping burgers at Mcdonalds.
that's a valid point as well. Also age doesn't really mean leadership, experience or maturity. Adriano for example is just 1 year younger then Carrick. Robbie Savage is as old as Paul Scholes. I think we can both agree the difference between the two set of players.Why does being over 30 stand out at the criteria that defines experience?
What about Pogba - lot of experience both for club and country
De Gea been at the club 10 years
Maguire - Captain 10 years playing experience
Cavani - The boss
Hell even Rashford is a role model for the young talent coming through
People trying to come up with justification for giving a 38 year old GK a new contract, someone that has played once in 3 years. Similar with Mata. Nice guy, however he is done at the level. What's the point. He smiles, he is good to have around. I would much rather see Elanga or Diallo someone like that take his minutes.
You could just quote me directly instead of going into your echo chamber.Why does being over 30 stand out at the criteria that defines experience?
What about Pogba - lot of experience both for club and country
De Gea been at the club 10 years
Maguire - Captain 10 years playing experience
Cavani - The boss
Hell even Rashford is a role model for the young talent coming through
People trying to come up with justification for giving a 38 year old GK a new contract, someone that has played once in 3 years. Similar with Mata. Nice guy, however he is done at the level. What's the point. He smiles, he is good to have around. I would much rather see Elanga or Diallo someone like that take his minutes.
I think that we've already have enough former players experience on the bench not to need to add to more. What United need is experience on the pitch like Cavani. Not former players in all but name.Oh so you think top coaches have to have been the best players then? Because they couldn't possibly teach them something if not, going by your logic.
Heaton is extremely experienced, and was a good GK anyway. He can teach Henderson alot.
I'm not arguing that you don't want experience on the pitch but what does that have to do with where we are now, you wanting to sell Mata to go and buy another experienced player?
We have some experience in our team but we are also a team that plays a lot of youth. If Maguire was hooked off and we lost you'd say that we lost our experience ala Matthaus.
Having players like Mata and Matic in and around the squad teaching the youngsters in training in invaluable. You can pretend it's not all you like. We've already seen plenty of clips of Cavani helping our youngsters on the training pitch, that's what the likes of Matic and Mata offer. No different to any other job, you learn from your experienced colleagues, even if they aren't the best or aren't even in your role now.
Wait, you think the only thing a young keeper like Henderson can learn from an experienced keeper is how to handle pressure? Give over. You're going off on a long winded tangent too.I think that we've already have enough former players experience on the bench not to need to add to more. What United need is experience on the pitch like Cavani. Not former players in all but name.
The issue with keepers at United isn't really talent. Foster had talent and he failed spectacularly at the club. Same thing can be said about Barthez and Taibi. The main difficulty in the United's goalkeeper's job is having every mistake scrutinised and magnified by a 1000. Its about having legends like Gaz and Scholes criticising every cross the goalkeeper missed and every save they think that the keeper should have saved. The pressure DDG faced since joining us is beyond ridiculous and in some ways its understandable. One mistake and it could cost the club the league title or the Europa league. Which is why Schmeichel used to call it the most difficult job in football. So tell me how on earth would someone who spent his entire career with the likes of Burnley, Bristol and Cardiff provide any relevant experience on how to handle such pressure? Dean Henderson already have enough experience playing with nobody clubs. He doesn't need Heaton or Grant on that regard.
Dean Henderson is 24 years old. He's already played regular football at a small club, he advanced more in his career at a top club then Heaton and Grant ever did and he's got far more talent then both keepers put together. What he needs is someone to help him handle the transition from being a 1st choice keeper at a club like Sheffield United to become a 1st choice goalkeeper at Manchester United. He won't get that experience from Heaton and Grant.Wait, you think the only thing a young keeper like Henderson can learn from an experienced keeper is how to handle pressure? Give over. You're going off on a long winded tangent too.
And regards the old players on the bench, as mentioned enough times, there is a big difference between being part of the playing squad training day in day out with them and with being part of the coaching team.
Steady on, he's just finished 6th with West Ham not spending a great deal and above Spurs, Arsenal, Everton and Villa.Agreed unless player is good enough to contribute positively on the field there is no point keeping them in the squad for so called experience and good influence that's the job of the management and coaching staff that's why they are paid big bucks .
For all the winners and experience we had in the team when Sir Alex retired they could not prevent a shit show of a season due to Moyes ineptitude as well them being past it.
So forgive me if I don't buy this experience argument when players aren't good enough on the field.
You have no clue how shit Moyes was for ManUtd. Just because he did good job at West Ham doesn't mean he was unfairly treated at ManUtd. He looked out of depth right from day 1.Steady on, he's just finished 6th with West Ham not spending a great deal and above Spurs, Arsenal, Everton and Villa.
He was badly treated at Manchester Utd. and seeing as this thread is about money, he was shafted financially too - you waited till it was mathematically impossible to get CL football and then fired him; saving money, whilst now you pay Mata (nobody knows quite how much, but I bet its over a million) to do what exactly?
Moyes was a scapegoat to mask the under-investment in Man Utd. in the several years prior to his appointment - whomever got the job after Sir Alex Ferguson was handed a poisened chalice. They should have been given at least 3 years to turn things around, without the contract clause stating top-four was a minimum target, hanging over their head.
