New Gillette ad

noodlehair

"It's like..."
Joined
Apr 1, 2004
Messages
16,376
Location
Flagg
I don't really feel like I need a razor company telling me how awful men are and what I should do about it, to be honest.

I mean I'm not outraged by it but I don't really get what the message is supposed to be. Only boys bully each other now? Girls don't do this? Do men generally actually just stand there and laugh if they see two of their young kids fighting?

The message is probably meant to be a positive one but It's a pretty dumb advert. It's effectively telling people off for stuff that most of them wouldn't do in the first place.
 

noodlehair

"It's like..."
Joined
Apr 1, 2004
Messages
16,376
Location
Flagg
I also get people saying it's good because it poses off the right wing snowflakes, and while this shouldn't be discounted it kind of misses the point.

When you see women themed adverts it's all about promoting positivity and positive behaviour, which is good. This advert is just highlighting or inventing negative behaviour, and ordering men who aren't responsible for it to do something about it. Good luck with that.
 

sullydnl

Ross Kemp's caf ID
Joined
Sep 13, 2012
Messages
34,063
The message of the ad (that men should challenge other men for their bad behaviour) is perfectly correct and timely.

If there's an issue (and there is) it's massive organisations cynically cashing in on serious societal issues with all the subtlety of a sledgehammer.

Though, as others have said, if it pisses off the likes of Piers Morgan & James Woods then it can't be all bad. If nothing else it works as trolling for people I don't like.
 

Skills

Snitch
Joined
Jan 17, 2012
Messages
42,100
A bit out of character for Procter & Gamble. Most of their products/brands and advertisements are usually very boring.
 

MadMike

Full Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2015
Messages
11,619
Location
London
Why not? We discuss adverts all the time. If it's on TV it can invite discussion in people's homes & their places of work - see John Lewis & Cocoa Cola christmas ads, Pepsi football ads etc.
Plus it was also displayed on twitter & other social media - which is the right platform for discussion - so I don't see the problem.
An advert is a subject for discussion. Not a platform.

By calling it virtue signalling you are implying the intention behind the message is disingenuous.
That discourages debate around the actual message, which is exactly what's happening - you can see it in the reasoning used by everyone who opposes the advert. Far more people are talking about why the ad is condescending or too PC, not enough people are talking about the environment which has enabled the need for this advert to be created in the first place.
It's a commercial advert. Their motives are to increase the profitability of the company, therefore disingenuous. It doesn't not discourage debate one bit in my opinion and I think you are confusing people who scream loudly with the majority view. Here we are debating how things could get better. Not discouraged by the criticism of the advert.

How do laws & schools have any insight on this? Just because laws are in place doesn't mean they are affecting social change - quite the opposite actually when you look at the stats on things like domestic violence against men, rape when men are the victims, parenting laws for the fathers etc.

In what way can any of this addressed in school, or at home? Won't schools also be accused of virtue signalling and bringing PC discussions in a place of education etc.
The law certainly isn't doing enough, and hasn't done enough for many decades, so how or when will that change? Politicians aren't going to draw up a bill unless it benefits their constituents - their constituents aren't going to suddenly rally around this topic unless there is societal change that comes about from discussions of issues - and that can all start from something small or unexpected, including this advert.

People in the 21st century do & watch all of those things, and through those means you can bring about education - this is a commercial that can be shown on tv shows, radios, youtube etc - so why can't it also bring about subtle change?

Also - why does it need to be subtle? Especially in light of #MeToo & #BLM, there's an opportunity to bring about social change with a big impact in the same way as those campaigns.
I don't see any evidence the laws have contrarian effect but I'd be happy to be corrected? Laws are an ultimate deterrent. They are constantly changing, but from what I know sexual abuse, harassment, rape.... they all have very high legal repercussions. Schools fall into the educational bracket I mentioned. Won't schools be accused of virtue signalling? No, that's part of a schools mission to teach the right virtues and educate. It's not Gillette's.

It needs to be subtle because the people you are trying to reach will reject or ignore the message if its coming on too strong. The era of #MeToo and #BLM also brought a right wing backlash and Trump to power. People seem to forget that some times.
 

MadMike

Full Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2015
Messages
11,619
Location
London
Don't see anything wrong with it. It's a good message for some men to receive so why should anyone be offended by it.

Does it make me want to swap - no.
Only twats are offended by the message. Like Piers Morgan and his ilk.
 

KirkDuyt

Full Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2015
Messages
24,650
Location
Dutchland
Supports
Feyenoord
What the feck is a men's rights activist. My rights are fine, get a real job. Twats.

Also, the message behind this seems to be; if you see someone being a cnut, tell him he's being a cnut. How does that offend anyone.

Disclaimer: I've not watched the ad.
 
Last edited:

That'sHernandez

Ominously close to getting banned
Joined
Oct 30, 2010
Messages
24,574
Anyone offended by this ad probably exhibits the behaviours depicted in the ad. You know the guys, the ones who are scared to interact with women since #MeToo started. You know, the guy who's really nice but can get a bit touchy when he's had a few and shouldn't left in a room with a female on their own.
 

noodlehair

"It's like..."
Joined
Apr 1, 2004
Messages
16,376
Location
Flagg
Don't see anything wrong with it. It's a good message for some men to receive so why should anyone be offended by it.

Does it make me want to swap - no.
Only twats are offended by the message. Like Piers Morgan and his ilk.
See this is where I disagree. The message is fine but the way the advert conveys it is poor and slightly insulting.

I mean I quite like the idea of the "this girl can" adverts for example, but if someone made a version of them showing a bunch of women bitching and bullying each other in an office, getting jealous at their partner for talking to another girl, acting materialistic, shallow, etc. And then telling other women they should step in to stop this, I doubt it would be received very well.

I'm not saying this is the same as a man grabbing a girl's bum, but trying to get across just how dumb this advert is and why it has managed to annoy a lot of people.

They could very easily have made an advert showing men behaving positively in a positive light, which would have been far more effective, got the same message across much more clearly, and not insulted anyone.

The problem is that along with the guys who do behave as depicted in the ad, you get these overly passivs aggressive types who feel the need to be seen to be better than that, so are overly keen to label other men as this type. It doesn't help anything and doesn't educate anyone. Just creates a whole load of angry people.
 

Shane88

Actually Nostradamus
Joined
Jan 12, 2011
Messages
35,255
Location
Targaryen loyalist
At least it's different from their usual "Our new razor with 17 rotating diamond blades that can shave the hair inside your face before it even starts to grow." bollocks.
 

Cloud7

Full Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2016
Messages
12,859
Anything that pisses off a so called “Men’s rights activist” is excellent in my books. I didn’t even know they were a thing. Exactly what rights are we being denied then? I need to understand my oppression better.
 

villain

Hates Beyoncé
Joined
Apr 22, 2014
Messages
14,973
An advert is a subject for discussion. Not a platform.
So we're in agreement - an advert is a great subject for discussion, which does advert does.

It's a commercial advert. Their motives are to increase the profitability of the company, therefore disingenuous. It doesn't not discourage debate one bit in my opinion and I think you are confusing people who scream loudly with the majority view. Here we are debating how things could get better. Not discouraged by the criticism of the advert.
Their motives are to increase profitability - but then so is any advert, right?
So is it not better for an advert to have a message behind it, rather than the stereotypical shaving advert which has a handsome guy who shaves his face while showing off his abs, then his supermodel wife hugs him from behind - aren't those adverts also disingenuous? It's certainly not reflective of 9/10 of their customers' lives.
Both will increase profitability, one of them at least has meaning and creates discussion.

There's a discussion to be had on companies jumping on political campaigns, sure - in this case Gillette have set themselves up to donate $3m to non-profits that target men, so I think it's unfair to say they are disingenuous.

I don't see any evidence the laws have contrarian effect but I'd be happy to be corrected? Laws are an ultimate deterrent. They are constantly changing, but from what I know sexual abuse, harassment, rape.... they all have very high legal repercussions. Schools fall into the educational bracket I mentioned. Won't schools be accused of virtue signalling? No, that's part of a schools mission to teach the right virtues and educate. It's not Gillette's.

It needs to be subtle because the people you are trying to reach will reject or ignore the message if its coming on too strong. The era of #MeToo and #BLM also brought a right wing backlash and Trump to power. People seem to forget that some times.
The law doesn't always protect men in the way it should.
Male domestic violence victims & rape victims aren't taken seriously because of the notion of "being a man", also they are far less likely to report a crime or talk to someone because of it. Single fathers find it harder to gain visitation and custody of their children even when the mother is in no state to look after the child.
Just because the laws are in place, doesn't mean they are protecting us.
Laws are often a reflection of society, and society has dictated this environment of toxic masculinity - and in most cases that gives men an advantage, however it doesn't mean it always gives them an advantage nor does it mean men are unable to be victims either.

Schools aren't currently educating kids on things like toxic masculinity, that won't suddenly change out of nowhere. Sex education wasn't introduced in schools until it was necessary - whether through teen pregnancies or rampant sexually transmitted diseases, so how do you expect schools to educate on a topic like this?
Surely it would need to come about through something like this advert?
I don't know about you but I was in 6th form during the recession and we would have discussions about it's impact during class. Similarly, we talked about politics & upcoming general elections during critical thinking, most classes were an opportunity to discuss relevant topics and in this modern era - I can only assume that, that is even more true now. So an advert like this enables discussion to be had where it otherwise would not have happened.
I fail to see how that's a problem.

It doesn't need to be subtle - people know whats right and what's wrong when it comes to these things, they choose to reject or ignore and their choice shouldn't dictate the momentum of the movement, especially when the victims don't get a choice.
 

Coxy

Full Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2006
Messages
3,225
Location
Derby
Nice advert. Love how it has triggered some people. Pathetic.
 

MadMike

Full Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2015
Messages
11,619
Location
London
See this is where I disagree. The message is fine but the way the advert conveys it is poor and slightly insulting.

I mean I quite like the idea of the "this girl can" adverts for example, but if someone made a version of them showing a bunch of women bitching and bullying each other in an office, getting jealous at their partner for talking to another girl, acting materialistic, shallow, etc. And then telling other women they should step in to stop this, I doubt it would be received very well.

I'm not saying this is the same as a man grabbing a girl's bum, but trying to get across just how dumb this advert is and why it has managed to annoy a lot of people.

They could very easily have made an advert showing men behaving positively in a positive light, which would have been far more effective, got the same message across much more clearly, and not insulted anyone.
So... you don't disagree? :lol:

You've agreed that the message is fine but disagree on how it's conveyed. Fair enough, I actually agree with you that highlighting positive behaviour rather than showcasing and admonishing bad one is a more effective educationally. But I also disagree on who it's conveyed by and for what purpose. As @sullydnl brilliantly put it:

If there's an issue (and there is) it's massive organisations cynically cashing in on serious societal issues with all the subtlety of a sledgehammer.
Procter & Gamble (Gillette's owning group) is public-listed, multi-national corporation and the only thing it cares about is bottom line. This is a commercial shot and put out at a cost, with no other aim than to increase their revenue. It can be hard for people to take moral lessons from corporations, especially lessons so crudely delivered. The advert might work for its intended purpose (revenue generation) but the method of delivery of the message could end up having a negative effect in the discussion of societal change we're having. And the thing is P&G won't give a toss, so long as the prime objective is met.
 

KirkDuyt

Full Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2015
Messages
24,650
Location
Dutchland
Supports
Feyenoord
The best part of this commercial is that it is obviously intended to incite discussion and the silly outrage from the Piers Morgans of this world utterly play in to their intend.
 

VorZakone

What would Kenny G do?
Joined
May 9, 2013
Messages
33,022
The best part of this commercial is that it is obviously intended to incite discussion and the silly outrage from the Piers Morgan's of this world utterly play in to their intend.
Yep, I have absolutely no doubt anymore that companies are actively seeking this kind of controversy.
 

Minimalist

New Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2013
Messages
15,091
What’s funny is that Piers Morgan is so far from what I would deem a ‘man’s man’. Who the feck is he trying to pretend to be with all this stuff (going back to the papoose thing)?

He’d get his pan knocked in by my gran.
 

gza the genius

Full Member
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
5,108
Location
supply and command
The message of the ad (that men should challenge other men for their bad behaviour) is perfectly correct and timely.

If there's an issue (and there is) it's massive organisations cynically cashing in on serious societal issues with all the subtlety of a sledgehammer.

Though, as others have said, if it pisses off the likes of Piers Morgan & James Woods then it can't be all bad. If nothing else it works as trolling for people I don't like.
Basically this. The message of the ad is obviously good but it was done in a very cringey way.
 

Cassidy

No longer at risk of being mistaken for a Scouser
Joined
Oct 2, 2013
Messages
31,530
I don't really feel like I need a razor company telling me how awful men are and what I should do about it, to be honest.

I mean I'm not outraged by it but I don't really get what the message is supposed to be. Only boys bully each other now? Girls don't do this? Do men generally actually just stand there and laugh if they see two of their young kids fighting?

The message is probably meant to be a positive one but It's a pretty dumb advert. It's effectively telling people off for stuff that most of them wouldn't do in the first place.

1. Men is their target audience why would they address girl on girl bullying?
2. Yes some men do stand there and laugh watching their kids fighting, in fact some even encourage it, video it, and put it on youtube.

I think their motives are likely disingenuous but there isn't anything wrong with the message.
 

Peyroteo

Professional Ronaldo PR Guy
Joined
Jan 11, 2016
Messages
10,884
Location
Porto, Portugal
Supports
Sporting CP
Does anyone actually believe this ad will have any kind of influence beyond giving Gilette some publicity?
 

HTG

Full Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2011
Messages
6,013
Supports
Bayern
Do they want to sell stuff? Yes, obviously. That doesn’t make the ad a bad thing. Rather than seeing ads like these as a possible reason or trigger for change, they might be, they might not, I don’t really know, we should see them as a way to measure progress in society. When big companies like Gilette or Nike deem it financially lucrative and reasonable to advertise with social issues like these, it means that the underlying moral views have become more established in the mainstream, which is a good thing.
We don’t need to celebrate the companies for doing so, but it is definitely an encouraging sign to see them do stuff like this. It’s a reason for optimism.

Also I welcome ads like these, because the reactions to them make it incredibly easy to identify idiots, who I can then ignore for the future.
 

Eyepopper

Lowering the tone since 2006
Joined
Sep 1, 2006
Messages
66,940

This seems to be generating a lot of discussion... What are peoples thoughts?
 

Tarrou

Full Member
Joined
May 13, 2013
Messages
25,649
Location
Sydney
I quite liked the ad but I sorta hate it when companies get involved in shit like this

cringey
 

We need an rvn

Full Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2015
Messages
3,872
Location
Down south...somewhere
They could very easily have made an advert showing men behaving positively in a positive light, which would have been far more effective, got the same message across much more clearly, and not insulted anyone.
I agree with this part of what you said - however for that message to come across clearly for all, the PR gurus at Gillette thought they need to show the side that is not acceptable first because for some men it might not register what they are trying to say in the advert

Don't think the same impact would be achieved if had if they had shown a man holding the door open for an old lady or getting off their seat to let a pregnant woman sit down etc.
 

fergieisold

New Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
7,122
Location
Saddleworth (home) Manchester (work)
It's a load of bollocks. As if being masculine is the cause of sexual harassment and bullying. They even showed a clip of normal boy behaviour and moaned about the phrase 'boys will be boys'...well of course boys will be boys, they're biologically fecking coded to be boys. Not surprising to learn it was directed by a feminist.
 

shaky

Full Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2014
Messages
2,515
Sadly I doubt any sex pests are going to be taking life advice from a company trying to sell them razors. What next? "Buy the new iPhone, and also stop murdering each other. Some people don't murder folk, but some is not enough" #appleagainstmurdering
 

adexkola

Doesn't understand sportswashing.
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
48,506
Location
The CL is a glorified FA Cup set to music
Supports
orderly disembarking on planes
Sadly I doubt any sex pests are going to be taking life advice from a company trying to sell them razors. What next? "Buy the new iPhone, and also stop murdering each other. Some people don't murder folk, but some is not enough" #appleagainstmurdering
Ok now I want to see this happen.
 

horsechoker

The Caf's Roy Keane.
Joined
Apr 16, 2015
Messages
52,444
Location
The stable
If this ad is an attack on manly men and manly men don't shave because that's for sissy's then have Gillette lost anything?

On a serious not, I do agree with the message of the video except the part with the guy on the street trying to approach a girl, it didn't seem like he was going to harass her and I don't think approaching people on the street is harassment as long as you don't pester them for too long. However, I'm uncomfortable with big companies tugging on our heart strings in order to push their products onto us, they'd change their tune in a heartbeat if they thought selling to MRAs was more profitable.
 

ArmandTamzarian

Full Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2009
Messages
3,830
Location
Belfast
Supports
Liverpool
There should be another clip in it of a bloke watching the ad getting all triggered and his mate puts his hand on his shoulder and says "look at the state of ye, you absolute fanny"
 

Cloud7

Full Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2016
Messages
12,859
There should be another clip in it of a bloke watching the ad getting all triggered and his mate puts his hand on his shoulder and says "look at the state of ye, you absolute fanny"
If they added in the triggered guy also reading Piers Morgan’s tweets about this and agreeing with him, it would be the perfect follow up :lol: