Next permanent manager | Poll updated

[Laurencio]

I don't see an issue in only letting youngsters play when they are actually good enough to justify a spot. That's how it should be - winning comes first, and if you're good enough, you are old enough.

I get how you can sometimes blood youngsters in hopes that it will result in a great player one day, but frankly that doesn't matter if you lose points because of it.

There has to be a balance that heavily favour winning football matches over developing young players. The magic of Sir Alex was that he did both - and no one could claim that the youngsters that became regulars didn't deserve it and that they didn't improve the position they wound up winning. Sure play the young lads, but make damn sure we don't lose because of it.

 

[Ajaxsuarez]

Your points about Ten Hag being bit conservative in using youth and relying on Experience may have merit as you are the one who follows Ajax but what exactly was Overmars doing if every decision from who to buy and whom to sell leading to a bloated squad was made by Ten Hag , was Overmars role was as redundant as you are suggesting here . What about the great structure of Ajax we keep on hearing here was it built on sand or what because way you have described Ten Hag tenure with Ajax it sounds eerily similar to Solskjaer without the good football and trophies .

They worked very much as a tandem, since Overmars brought him in because of their history together in the first place and they are very very close.

Overmars did great work in bringing in players and selling players, but in terms of maximising value of the squad and selling at the right moment he definitely did not do well these past years, and bringing in Klaiber, Labyad, Promes, Haller all simply because Ten Hag knew them from Utrecht definitely was a total mistake.

But I also get that the club realised the value that Ten Hag himself represented to the club and so keeping him happy also is/was important

 

[Forevergiggs1]

That's very wrong.

Poch was lucky that during his time, he only lost Kyle Walker, while enjoying many of his starter peak. They reached a point then they're underpaid for their performance worth. Then Poch created an issue when he publicly sounded like he's done with them around the time of CL final, and ready to leave any minutes. Having a manager that ready to leave, of course, some of them would understandably be better to look for new challenge when they're looking at their career final big contracts.

Whats very wrong is you making it sound like when Poch first went to Spurs he already had a ready made team ready to fight for titles instead of him putting everything together and actually coaching them to become the players they eventually became which is a massive difference and no where as easy as you make it out to be.

Yes it was a strange comment to make after the CL final but one thing no one knows is what went on behind the scenes to make him voice such a comment but why do you link his comment with the players wanting to leave? Couldn't it be something as simple as the players thought they were worth more than they were getting paid and Levy playing hardball which from the outside seemed to be the case?

The disdain for Poch is laughable. Posters commenting that they're done with the club if Poch is hired sound like spoiled children just because they could have a shiny new toy to play with. People never cease to amaze me.

Would Poch be the one to take us back to the top? It's impossible to say but sometimes in life it can just click between manager and the squad due to many reasons such as how the players perceive said manager and there's absolutely no evidence to think ETH has a big advantage if we look at both managers careers and the state of our current squad. Each for me has an equal chance at success just as each has an equal chance at failure which is why I won't be throwing a tantrum if we choose one over the other. I'm in a very happy place at the minute because either choice for me is a big step in the right direction not like some of the miserable fecks on here who have publicly quoted they're finished with he club if Poch is hired and others knocking down one to bump up the other just because they think it's ETH or bust. Middle ground seems to be an alien concept for many on social media but I suppose as long as they're happy complaining that's all that counts.

 

[Real Name]

I don’t think ten Hag should be under any obligation to use youth. The youth player in question needs to be undeniable. Not like Van Gaal throwing Borthwick Jackson in.

Exactly, youth shouldnt be thrown in just for the sake of it but based on quality. One or 2 which stick out.

 

[SATA]

Too many pages to catch up since last night. So basically it’s a done dealio? After looking at the sharp rise of pages overnight I assume something concrete has happened

 

[Revaulx]

He was good in short bursts for Van Gaal but overall the physicality was too much for him. Smalling had to carry him in a lot of games.

That’s not how I remember it. He and Smalling complemented each other perfectly, and were a consistently excellent pairing. We never got the best out of them due to the limitations of the full backs and midfield.

Blind’s lack of pace certainly hampered him at left back, though I’d still have preferred him there to Rojo. With the benefit of hindsight, with Shaw unavailable LvG would have been better off playing Young.

 

[CallyRed]

Cant they do it through e-mail or something?

Hey Poch, sorry but you didnt get the job. Best of luck.

Subject title:
Important update about your recent job application

Email body:
Unlucky

 

[Real Name]

It did, but the point is that he happened to have that core available to him at that time.

And again, like I said he's been able to turn Ajax into a winning machine season on season, and like I said he is a fantastic manager in that regard.

But if you believe that United has a rotten element to its squad at the moment, then he probably isn't the right manager to cut through that and change things, particularly not if that involves taking risks rather than bringing in experienced top class players, or at least players he knows he can trust over what's currently available

United's position is specific though and different to Ajax. You have about 10 players who either wish or should leave. I dont think he'd like no I wont let go of anyone. Especially when you have players like Mata, Jones and Lingard who stink up the place for years.

 

[Real Name]

Subject title:
Important update about your recent job application

Email body:
Unlucky

 

[Real Name]

On a slight side note, we should have kept Blind.

 

[Revaulx]

Ajax fans complaining about ETH putting together a bloated elderly squad: I thought Overmars was responsible for assembling the squad, and the general view was that he’d done a great job?

 

[romufc]

Do 'Fantastic' managers fail as badly as this lad is predicting?

It's easier to blame the environment than the person taking charge.

I dont understand why? Chelsea sign players that managers dont want and win stuff, so its obvious if you are a fantastic manager, you will get the best out of players.

 

[Ajaxsuarez]

I don't see an issue in only letting youngsters play when they are actually good enough to justify a spot. That's how it should be - winning comes first, and if you're good enough, you are old enough.

I get how you can sometimes blood youngsters in hopes that it will result in a great player one day, but frankly that doesn't matter if you lose points because of it.

There has to be a balance that heavily favour winning football matches over developing young players. The magic of Sir Alex was that he did both - and no one could claim that the youngsters that became regulars didn't deserve it and that they didn't improve the position they wound up winning. Sure play the young lads, but make damn sure we don't lose because of it.

The point though is that we were able to make it to the EL final under Bosz by placing that trust in Dolberg,De Ligt, Onana, etc. at the start of the season, and thereby losing those points, but these players turn into 9/10 CL level players that allow you to then blow away a Juventus or a Real Madrid, which we simply wouldn't have access to otherwise at a club like Ajax.

Ajax needs those players like Tadic, Blind, etc. but it also needs most of all those young talents to be given the chance, because that's where the upside for true greatness and special moments comes from.

Only special talents like those mentioned have it in them to exceed themselves when placed in that highest level like away at the Bernabeu. A Labyad could never. An Alvarez could never.
This is why we now falter at the similar place in Europe (early knockout stage of CL or a bit further into the EL) because we don't have that extra bit of special that a De Ligt and De Jong could bring in those moments.

Not recognising that as the manager of Ajax definitely is a flaw, but again maybe one more pertinent to Ajax than to United.

 

[mctrials23]

I don't see an issue in only letting youngsters play when they are actually good enough to justify a spot. That's how it should be - winning comes first, and if you're good enough, you are old enough.

I get how you can sometimes blood youngsters in hopes that it will result in a great player one day, but frankly that doesn't matter if you lose points because of it.

That all depends on your thinking and priorities. Its a conundrum because you can rarely tell if a player will make the grade at senior level until you give them a chance. The Mbappes and Rooneys of this world are few and far between. Most players don't just explode onto the scene like they did.

There is also an argument that its very hard to find and progress good young players in an unsettled side without an identity or system in place.

You take a young Rooney and stick him in the current United squad and he would excel because hes that sort of player. You take a younger Foden and stick him in United team over the past few years and perhaps he doesn't.

All of the best youth product that has come out of United over the past decade or so have been explosive individual players. There is a reason we haven't produced highly technical midfielders or defenders that are comfortable on the ball.

 

[BlackBen]

On a slight side note, we should have kept Blind.

That would have been Blind faith.
I’ll get my coat.

 

[AdNani]

It did, but the point is that he happened to have that core available to him at that time.

And again, like I said he's been able to turn Ajax into a winning machine season on season, and like I said he is a fantastic manager in that regard.

But if you believe that United has a rotten element to its squad at the moment, then he probably isn't the right manager to cut through that and change things, particularly not if that involves taking risks rather than bringing in experienced top class players, or at least players he knows he can trust over what's currently available

it's not as if he'd be doing. that himself? Murtough/Fletcher/new director and Rangnick are all going to be there and involved? he's there to coach the team, which i'm pretty sure he's going to do to a very high standard.

 

[Ajaxsuarez]

it's not as if he'd be doing. that himself? Murtough/Fletcher/new director and Rangnick are all going to be there and involved? he's there to coach the team, which i'm pretty sure he's going to do to a very high standard.

Again, I think he's very very good at that side of things - at a club like Ajax.

I worry that he won't be able to win over the players at a club like United, particularly not if they feel exactly what you're saying that he doesn't have much of a say over their future anyway, so why listen to this awkward Dutch farmer

 

[Real Name]

That would have been Blind faith.
I’ll get my coat.

Not bad, not bad.

 

[Revaulx]

I think Blind was good in the Prem, for the right system he worked fine as a CB. In fact he had a good run there, it was Mourinho who came in and sold him because he wanted more physical players in his system.

Yet we won our last trophy under Jose (Europa League 2017) with LvG pets Smalling and Blind at CB. Against Ajax, ironically.

 

[VP89]

Yet we won our last trophy under Jose (Europa League 2017) with LvG pets Smalling and Blind at CB. Against Ajax, ironically.

I love Blind

 

[TheReligion]

Again, I think he's very very good at that side of things - at a club like Ajax.

I worry that he won't be able to win over the players at a club like United, particularly not if they feel exactly what you're saying that he doesn't have much of a say over their future anyway, so why listen to this awkward Dutch farmer

But United will be bringing in new players?

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

All well and good being a tactical genius, but what sort of vibez will he bring?

 

[Conor]

Again, I think he's very very good at that side of things - at a club like Ajax.

I worry that he won't be able to win over the players at a club like United, particularly not if they feel exactly what you're saying that he doesn't have much of a say over their future anyway, so why listen to this awkward Dutch farmer

You would think that he will simply have to turn to youth players if he encounters an unwillingness to comply from existing senior players though? Is he really going to ignore youth players over guy that are not doing what he wants vs. just not that good(seemingly what you say about his time at Ajax).

 

[Tarrou]

Again, I think he's very very good at that side of things - at a club like Ajax.

I worry that he won't be able to win over the players at a club like United, particularly not if they feel exactly what you're saying that he doesn't have much of a say over their future anyway, so why listen to this awkward Dutch farmer

If any of United's players don't want to get behind the new manager we're best off letting them go anyway

 

[Real Name]

All well and good being a tactical genius, but what sort of vibez will he bring?

Hehehe.

I laughed.

 

[bosnian_red]

For reasons I laid out here



But to be more specific, the reason I think he will fail is becaue like I said he doesn't have the gravitas, but also doesn't have the personality, to actually overthrow things and cut the dross.

His character in terms of player selection is heavily tilted towards fear rather than reward. He will always choose a guaranteed 7/10 performance now over a potential 9/10 player by the end of the season/ a year from now.

So where a Peter Bosz in his one season at Ajax brutally told players like Bazoer and El Ghazi that they weren't good enough (even though Bazoer represented a lot of value before that point), and was willing to put massive faith in 18 year old Dolberg (despite having brought in Traore on loan from Chelsea for the striker position), 19 year old Onana (depsite having brought in Tim Krul on loan), and 17 year old De Ligt. This lead to a difficult first half of the season, which ended up costing us the league by like 2 points in the end, despite a fantastic second half of the season and a Europa League final reached with this incredibly young core, which then developed (also thanks to Keizer taking the crazy risk of putting Frenkie de Jong into the first team at centreback the months after Bosz' departure) into the core that Ten Hag reached the CL semifinal on (together with the purchases of Blind/Tadic in his first summer at the club), and which resulted in Ajax' biggest ever financial windfall (the CL money + the €150m De Ligt+De Jong money). Also Vd Beek got starts towards the end of that season under Bosz, including in pivotal knockout EL games

Ten Hag on the other hand won't cut out any dross (not even from the bench) and won't risk any youngsters in that same way, and so it's impossible to build towards a future in which you don't continue to rely on this same set of players, and as a result you end up desperately holding onto them when offers come in for them, until eventually you're stuck with players whose value has diminished, whose contracts are running out, and a bunch of youth players whose development has stalled/hasn't been given a chance, or who have had to leave the club and immediately shine elsewhere (see Noa Lang immediately being player of the season (basically) in Belgium despite not even making our bench under Ten Hag, and Botman winning the league in France with Lille immediately after being sold, though in his case we had Martinez and Blind for his position so I get selling him for that money at the time)

And United need someone with the sway or at least character to ruthlessly cut through the rot that's been running through the squad this past years, but Ten Hag, being so overly cautious in this regard, would never be the man to do this even if he had that sort of influence/freedom within the club

One of the things that stands out with Ten Hag for me is how despite selling key players every year, he adjusts, adapts to a different set of players and is still dominant? Sure he has a few constants like Blind and Tadic, but I don't see a situation where he desperately holds on to players and then I'd reliant on them. If anything, hes shown he can succeed even when selling his best players by adapting.

There are concerns as you say, but he is still relatively young in managerial terms. I don't think United's dressing room is too bad or intimidating to be honest, especially with all the outgoings this summer with contract situations anyway. And a lot of it is natural changes. But sticking with old reliables like Blind and Tadic for example is something every manager does if they can do a job still. Sir Alex did it with his class of 92 a bit too long if anything.

 

[TheReligion]

You would think that he will simply have to turn to youth players if he encounters an unwillingness to comply from existing senior players though? Is he really going to ignore youth players over guy that are not doing what he wants vs. just not that good(seemingly what you say about his time at Ajax).

No he isn’t. I’m not really following the points the poster is making if I’m honest.

 

[Rooney24]

Great news to be getting him. He’s the best available at this moment in time.

I’m just surprised to learn he is actually a year older than Pep

 

[Kaos]

Great news to be getting him. He’s the best available at this moment in time.

I’m just surprised to learn he is actually a year older than Pep

He's also more bald and fraudulent

 

[Greck]

But Ajax rely way more on promoting and developing youth. I have no idea myself and have to believe others who know more about ETH, but this particular aspect certainly sounds concerning

I'm actually more surprised this thread went several hundred pages and we're just now learning he isn't the most risk embracing when it comes to youth. Also says a lot about the depth of discussion that took place and how little informed some are about Ajax. Like it would kill us to admit "yeah he has so and so weaknesses he would need to improve but here's why he's still the right man for the job". Even the guy who said something about his English needing work was dismissed. Ever heard of nuance? Portion of our current batch of youth are probably overrated anyway but I'd rather we didn't just ice out that side. ETH must adapt to our values as much as we to his. The guy can still grow as a manager.

 

[AdNani]

Again, I think he's very very good at that side of things - at a club like Ajax.

I worry that he won't be able to win over the players at a club like United, particularly not if they feel exactly what you're saying that he doesn't have much of a say over their future anyway, so why listen to this awkward Dutch farmer

seem to be changing the goalposts here a bit. 1st it was he didn't promote youth. then it was he wasn't ruthless enough, now it's he's not going to win over the players because he's an awkward farmer, part of me thinks your sad he's leaving, which is fair enough.

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

It's left us in a bit of a pickle really, having such a new manager. Who will be picking up the Premier League trophy next year, or will Harry and Erik go halfsies?

 

[Plant0x84]

If Ten Hag is smart enough he will bench Maguire straight away. Otherwise he will be jobless in 2 months.
Blind has more talent in his little toe than Harry will every have.

Sorry guys, it has to be said.

It’s not a question of talent. You don’t get to be captain your club or country if you are not talented.
For me Daley was/is very good at reading the game so he is able to position himself in advance and mitigate any danger as it approaches. Harry’s trouble is he tries too hard to be the guy who deals with everything so he steps out and struggles to get back if he doesn’t deal with it. I think harry struggles with the players around him too as Shaw/Telles don’t track back so often when they lose the ball and Lindelof tends to drop deep all of which leaves Harry exposed.
If ETH is as good a coach as is said then he will be able to coach Harry back to his peak and solidify the defence in general to get them working as a unit rather than 4 individuals. If he cannot do that then maybe he isn’t the messiah everybody thinks.

 

[JPRouve]

Again, I think he's very very good at that side of things - at a club like Ajax.

I worry that he won't be able to win over the players at a club like United, particularly not if they feel exactly what you're saying that he doesn't have much of a say over their future anyway, so why listen to this awkward Dutch farmer

Outside of frankly stupid people, who thinks like that?

And in general players respond to sense and charisma, they want to win be successful, loved and earn a lot of money. It's not the norm for players to not listen to their coach even when they disagree. And United are not different to other clubs, almost every big clubs have a DOF who is the one in charge of building the team, yet people aren't questioning the authority of the head coach every other minutes.

 

[McGrathsipan]

For reasons I laid out here



But to be more specific, the reason I think he will fail is becaue like I said he doesn't have the gravitas, but also doesn't have the personality, to actually overthrow things and cut the dross.

His character in terms of player selection is heavily tilted towards fear rather than reward. He will always choose a guaranteed 7/10 performance now over a potential 9/10 player by the end of the season/ a year from now.

So where a Peter Bosz in his one season at Ajax brutally told players like Bazoer and El Ghazi that they weren't good enough (even though Bazoer represented a lot of value before that point), and was willing to put massive faith in 18 year old Dolberg (despite having brought in Traore on loan from Chelsea for the striker position), 19 year old Onana (depsite having brought in Tim Krul on loan), and 17 year old De Ligt. This lead to a difficult first half of the season, which ended up costing us the league by like 2 points in the end, despite a fantastic second half of the season and a Europa League final reached with this incredibly young core, which then developed (also thanks to Keizer taking the crazy risk of putting Frenkie de Jong into the first team at centreback the months after Bosz' departure) into the core that Ten Hag reached the CL semifinal on (together with the purchases of Blind/Tadic in his first summer at the club), and which resulted in Ajax' biggest ever financial windfall (the CL money + the €150m De Ligt+De Jong money). Also Vd Beek got starts towards the end of that season under Bosz, including in pivotal knockout EL games

Ten Hag on the other hand won't cut out any dross (not even from the bench) and won't risk any youngsters in that same way, and so it's impossible to build towards a future in which you don't continue to rely on this same set of players, and as a result you end up desperately holding onto them when offers come in for them, until eventually you're stuck with players whose value has diminished, whose contracts are running out, and a bunch of youth players whose development has stalled/hasn't been given a chance, or who have had to leave the club and immediately shine elsewhere (see Noa Lang immediately being player of the season (basically) in Belgium despite not even making our bench under Ten Hag, and Botman winning the league in France with Lille immediately after being sold, though in his case we had Martinez and Blind for his position so I get selling him for that money at the time)

And United need someone with the sway or at least character to ruthlessly cut through the rot that's been running through the squad this past years, but Ten Hag, being so overly cautious in this regard, would never be the man to do this even if he had that sort of influence/freedom within the club

This is literally what he has to do!
If he doesnt refresh the playing staff then he will fail and deservedly so

 

[Adnan]

He brought youngsters through at Ajax like Timber, Gravenberch and aided the development of several others. But you can't please everyone and it's understandable there will be some fans that will be disappointed.

 

[Flexdegea]

For reasons I laid out here



But to be more specific, the reason I think he will fail is becaue like I said he doesn't have the gravitas, but also doesn't have the personality, to actually overthrow things and cut the dross.

His character in terms of player selection is heavily tilted towards fear rather than reward. He will always choose a guaranteed 7/10 performance now over a potential 9/10 player by the end of the season/ a year from now.

So where a Peter Bosz in his one season at Ajax brutally told players like Bazoer and El Ghazi that they weren't good enough (even though Bazoer represented a lot of value before that point), and was willing to put massive faith in 18 year old Dolberg (despite having brought in Traore on loan from Chelsea for the striker position), 19 year old Onana (depsite having brought in Tim Krul on loan), and 17 year old De Ligt. This lead to a difficult first half of the season, which ended up costing us the league by like 2 points in the end, despite a fantastic second half of the season and a Europa League final reached with this incredibly young core, which then developed (also thanks to Keizer taking the crazy risk of putting Frenkie de Jong into the first team at centreback the months after Bosz' departure) into the core that Ten Hag reached the CL semifinal on (together with the purchases of Blind/Tadic in his first summer at the club), and which resulted in Ajax' biggest ever financial windfall (the CL money + the €150m De Ligt+De Jong money). Also Vd Beek got starts towards the end of that season under Bosz, including in pivotal knockout EL games

Ten Hag on the other hand won't cut out any dross (not even from the bench) and won't risk any youngsters in that same way, and so it's impossible to build towards a future in which you don't continue to rely on this same set of players, and as a result you end up desperately holding onto them when offers come in for them, until eventually you're stuck with players whose value has diminished, whose contracts are running out, and a bunch of youth players whose development has stalled/hasn't been given a chance, or who have had to leave the club and immediately shine elsewhere (see Noa Lang immediately being player of the season (basically) in Belgium despite not even making our bench under Ten Hag, and Botman winning the league in France with Lille immediately after being sold, though in his case we had Martinez and Blind for his position so I get selling him for that money at the time)

And United need someone with the sway or at least character to ruthlessly cut through the rot that's been running through the squad this past years, but Ten Hag, being so overly cautious in this regard, would never be the man to do this even if he had that sort of influence/freedom within the club

I'm bit baffled as too why he seems to he successful at your club with the constant disruption to the team.

You saying he picking players not on performance, but the team keeps performing to a high level, and then he apparently doesn't have the personality to perform at us, but at Ajax they running thru walls for him.

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

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[Cee90]

He's also more bald and fraudulent

 

[NewGlory]

Anyone care to offer a guess as to what ten Hag’s starting 11 will be next season? There are so many players here that I doubt he wants but I can’t see the owners giving him a blank chequebook either.

DDG
Dalot Maguire Varane Shaw
Fred Nevas Fernandes
Antony Rashford Sancho

I wouldn’t be overly surprised if it was something like this

I will be shocked, SHOCKED, if Ten Hag keeps
either Maguire or Shaw. I doubt Rashford can stay, either if he doesn't take his head out of his ass