Way too early to judge him, he is still adapting, some players takes more time than others.
Nicolas Pépé
- Thread starter LazyRed-Ninja
- Start date
Says a lot when Arsenal fans were impressed by a performance that saw him go clean through on goal and not score. And people say our standards have dropped
Said it earlier, he’ll flop. Not convinced at all.
Honestly I didn't even notice him much yesterday, I thought he wasn't even playing
He'll be fine, needs time to settle in. Not helped by the fact our manger doesn't seem to have a fecking clue what he is doing either.
That "wonderful" through ball was behind him. The fact you're blaming that on Pepe shows how desperate some people are to already label him a flop
Bergkamp was a slow starter. Drogba too. Not saying he'll be as good as those players but he definitely will trouble defences if not himself.
Yeah, I don't understand why people want to write off a player so early.
Think he'll ultimately end up (if he does end up good) to be sort of Lacazette-level. A good player in his own right, but not one who is good enough to elevate the team to a higher level.
The thing that makes me think that maybe he'll flop is that Arsenal kinda got a free run at him. Nobody else was interested at near that price, but it feels like they needed to shut the fans up so went for a big money transfer they could get done in smaller payments because Lille probably knew he's not worth that kind of money. The reports about Bayern thinking he can't operate unless in plenty of space adds to that, I think maybe big clubs scouted him and saw a player there, but not one worth going all out for.
I suppose that doesn't necessarily mean he'll 'flop', but just be a pretty major disappointment considering the hype at the start (because he ran fast) and the price they paid. His basic technical ability doesn't seem particularly good to me, he's a dangerous dribbler but his first touch etc is all pretty underwhelming. I'm sure he'll start scoring goals here and there because he's rapid and can beat a man, but aside from those qualities I don't actually think he's a very good footballer.
Very early to judge a player and it's entirely possible he will come good, but right now I have him headed down a Gervinho route. Both posted great stats in Ligue 1 and looked quick and dangerous in moments in the Premier League, but both can also look quite clumsy at times in terms of the basics.
I suppose that doesn't necessarily mean he'll 'flop', but just be a pretty major disappointment considering the hype at the start (because he ran fast) and the price they paid. His basic technical ability doesn't seem particularly good to me, he's a dangerous dribbler but his first touch etc is all pretty underwhelming. I'm sure he'll start scoring goals here and there because he's rapid and can beat a man, but aside from those qualities I don't actually think he's a very good footballer.
Very early to judge a player and it's entirely possible he will come good, but right now I have him headed down a Gervinho route. Both posted great stats in Ligue 1 and looked quick and dangerous in moments in the Premier League, but both can also look quite clumsy at times in terms of the basics.
Interesting that Lille were happy to accept payment over 5 years too.
What? Lacazette is brilliant. Would love him at Utd.
It is clear to see he has talent, you could see against top sides defenders get nervous when he has the ball. The PL is a massive step up, not just in quality but physically as well. I think that is where he is behind, I've heard we have him on a strengthening programme so will take him time to get up to the required level.
It's the done thing nowadays. Imagine players like Zidane, Bergkamp or even Cantona nowadays. Players would have been slaughtered by social media by now.
Yeah, honestly I think they were happy to take the money and run. Seemed to be throwing his name out to clubs across Europe without those clubs actually really being that interested as well.
If he was some world class level talent and Lille knew that, I don't see them accepting that payment plan.
Because he is quick and can beat a man, so yes defenders are nervous about him. They also don't know much about him so he's still a bit of an unknown quality, a big money player who has arrived. He obviously has talent, but some of the basics that help you thrive in the high pressure games of the PL (like great first touch, ability to make great decisions quickly etc) I just don't think he particularly excels at. He's fantastic at driving in to space and beating his man, but what else? What separates him from Gervinho when he arrived?
Ligue 1 is pretty physical, I don't think he's struggling with being too weak for the league. It's just there's generally less space, teams press harder and as more of a unit, and the quality of defenders on average is higher and they're better equipped to deal with pace in behind.
I wouldn’t have thought it in the summer but Dan James has made more contributions so far than Pepe in the league, despite costing £60 million less.
Hopefully he gets better too since he’s 2 or 3 years younger as a bonus. Neither are exactly Eden Hazard but I think we got the better player going forward.
Hopefully he gets better too since he’s 2 or 3 years younger as a bonus. Neither are exactly Eden Hazard but I think we got the better player going forward.
He's a good player, yeah. That's what I said.
Agree with bolded, he's still getting used to the pace of the league and he desperately wants to get that first goal in. Once that goes in I think we'll see a different player. Having said that he's got all the attributes of a top quality wide attacker. Both him and Ceballos seem to be a bit overawed by how tough the league is, with them having to turn up for only one game a month in their respective leagues. In the PL you have to be on your toes all the time.
The Gervinho comparison is pretty lazy to be fair. Gervinho wasn't actually as bad as people made out, he was just massively erratic. I think Pepe is a lot more polished and has a lot more composure. Not been an easy start for him and not getting a goal probably will make. Just a few weeks ago Tammy Abraham was talked about as being shit and now look at how opinions have changed. I'll know if Pepe will make it or not by the end of the season not September....
A few players we have bought in from France in the past we have worked hard to get them physically stronger and fitter. Games here are much more intense so you need to be stronger and fitter to cope with that
It's not that lazy. Both him and Pepe had really good stats in Ligue 1, they're both pacey players who are excellent at dribbling, and shit .. they both came from Lille. The similarities are there.
Why do you think he's more polished or has more composure? I haven't really seen that so far, in the Premier League anyway. It may well come but these are two attributes he just hasn't shown so far.
Yes, he may well come good eventually and nobody can say for sure whether he'll make it or not yet but I don't think he's this dead cert world class talent who will tear the PL apart, which is what some Arsenal fans were making him out to be.
Henry was another slow starter. Aguero though hit the ground running.
It's just the nature of the sport that people are quick to make judgements on players. Pepe isn't going to be a world beater, but in a functional system with a manager who can play on his strengths he'll be fine.
Nearly all transfers are paid in instalments. Do you think Liverpool for instance paid £75m or whatever it was for VVD in one go?
It's just Arsenal being Arsenal, like when they used to announce all transfers as 'undisclosed fee'.
So was Heung-Min Son. Pochettino had to convince him to stay for his second year because the first was pretty poor and then he took off after that.
I’d love Pepe to flop because he’s arsenal, but it’s still way too soon.
Last edited:
Nearly all are paid in instalments, but usually there's a decent amount upfront and then some in instalments for the next few years. The payment plan Arsenal managed to get wouldn't be the total norm.
Liverpool just received a mountain of cash for Coutinho, didn't they? So I wouldn't be surprised if Southampton demanded a significant amount upfront for VVD.
How do you think most transfers are all paid for? You think everyone just gets cash upfront? Majority of the time it is split into
Pepe was exceptional for Lille and viewed by most who closely follow the league as the second best player behind Mbappe last season. Gervinho was probably never the best player at his club let alone top 3 in the league. If you want to make things overly simplistic it took over £30m to get Hazard and around £10m to get Gervinho. My polished/composure comment comes from what I've seen in France.
Nobody can guarantee anything can they? Time will tell if he's a success or not. From the little I've seen I think it will take him longer than people initially thought to settle in. I would say we overpaid for him but then again we have been out of the CL for 3 years now, you either overpay or you try to develop talent. Seems like we are trying to do both.
Could be somewhere down the middle as well ? Southampton knew Mane was talented but I'm sure they didn't know he would be this good for Livepool. I'm convinced by what I've seen of Pepe - in clips or for Arsenal - but I'm not sure this is the best way to judge players. Who else was really in for Lo Celso or VVD for that matter?
I don't think Lo Celso is a top, world class talent either if I'm being honest. Think he'll settle as a good midfielder for us.
City were in for VVD and I believe a couple of other clubs at the time, but they were put off by a record price for a CB. I think that's a bit different to 70m for a wide attacking player putting up great stats, you'd expect clubs to be circling.
Isn't your buy option for Celso 58 million or so?
Yeah, he had a fantastic season. Depay is flourishing over there too, and Ben Arfa after being a flop at Newcastle banged in 17 goals and got 6 assists, whilst not being a penalty taker. Balotelli bagged a decent amount in Ligue 1 too, and how about Thauvin? Barely looked a player in England and then at Marseille in 17/18? 22 goals and 11 assists. And nobody signed Thauvin or made out he was some world class talent because of that season.
I rate Ligue 1, and obviously some fantastic talents have emerged from the league. But success there doesn't necessarily mean success elsewhere, you can get some absolute gems in the division who are some of the biggest talents in the world, but you can also get plenty who struggle to replicate those kind of statistics elsewhere. Your assessment that he's polished just because of what he did in France doesn't really hold that much weight now he's playing in England, it's a different arena.
And let's be fair, Pepe would be the second best player at his club had he played with Hazard at Lille like Gervinho did. Hazard was always an exceptional talent, not because of great stats like Pepe boasts, but because his fundamentals were all incredible and he was clearly technically gifted to the point where he would thrive anywhere. IIRC Gervinho was statistically better than Hazard at Lille, but everyone knew who the big talent was. IMO Pepe's stats are misleading as a penalty taker and someone who was on set pieces, and he was a player who thrived as the main man in a specific system where his assets were enough to get him goals in France. I don't think he was one of the biggest talents in the league, may well be proven wrong and he'll flourish at Arsenal.
edit: Now I think about it, honestly I don't think Pepe even looked all that polished at Lille. His ball control/first touch was never exceptional and it often looked like it was getting away from him but he made up for that with his pace. Same deal whenever I've seen him play for his NT.
Last edited:
55 mill I think. Which I think is a bit too much, personally. But he was the main man at his club (much like Pepe was at Lille) so yeah, the fee was always going to be high.
It's less the money factor and more the expectations some Arsenal fans seem to have for Pepe. A few great runs vs Liverpool and you had many believing he was going to tear teams apart on the regular, whereas personally I think the game at Liverpool was set up perfectly for his skill set and yet he failed to really take advantage of that bar some exciting runs.
Happy we stayed away from him and Bruno. For 2 players, who were supposedly red-hot properties, one went to Arsenal and the other no one touched.
Depay is a very good player, which is why he is flourishing there, he joined Man Utd at the wrong time in his career but think he will move on soon and do alright. Ben Arfa is one of the most talented players to come out of France but a bit tapped in the head so will never fulfil his talent.
And stats are not misleading, many of those penalties you refer to were won by him as well. His link play is very good, his control and the way he dribbles is not clean but is very effective which is why he goes past players easily.
I get it some players don't make the step up but you're talking nonsense if you can say for Pepe after a few weeks of him joining. Arsenal have had a lot of foreign players and I'd say a large number of them usually take about 6 months to find their feet. So I will judge Pepe then not in September.
Think Depay would still struggle in the Prem. And there's a whole host of players who post great numbers in France but can't replicate that in England. Not because the French League is shit (it produces some insane talents) but because some players just can't make that change and don't have the right skill sets.
Don't agree that his link up play is particularly special, he's a great dribbler and can beat a man but some of the basics really aren't special, and those matter more in England where players will be on you in an instant and closing you down.
I can't say anything about Pepe conclusively, it's absolutely too early. But he was spoken about like the finished deal and someone guaranteed to succeed ala Hazard and I've just never seen that level of talent with him where he's bound to be a success. He could well end up being a great success and that wouldn't exactly surprise me, but he's not someone who I've watched (either in france, for ivory coast or even for lille) and thought 'that's a genuine superstar', I think he could end up being a useful cog but never the main man.
Anyway, we'll see. It is incredibly early. I just do think a lot of the hype from his first couple of appearances was silly, it was basically him beating a few players and showing a good turn of pace and suddenly he was already a success and was being amazing. Hyperbole goes both ways.
Every time people asked me about him I said the same thing, as long as he doesn't play in continental competitions it will be difficult to judge. My experience lead me to believe that it's by far the best barometer for all leagues, if you do well in Europe you can play anywhere. It took Lacazette a few seasons to perform in Europe even though he was good in the league.
Needs a few months before proper judgment. Though wasn’t it Bayern who turned him down due to his technical ability?
We don't know and it means nothing, clubs misjudge players all the time and Bayern have been woeful recently in that department.
I don't really buy that in this day in age.
The amount of data and technology used these days should make it a piece of piss to get to know an opposing player pretty quickly, for example I imagine Robertson watched numerous full games of his alongside an analysis video from the coaching team in the week leading up to Arsenal's trip to Anfield yet still couldn't stop him going clean through.
Not to mention the fact Liverpool were one of the teams rumoured to be looking at him so have probably watched a lot of him already.
Maybe, but it's one thing looking at videos and another thing facing a player and getting used to his movement/pace in person. You could see during the Liverpool game Van Djik adjusted himself a bit to deal with the pace of Pepe in behind after he got caught. There's nothing really like actually experiencing what a player can do and trying to adapt to it. You saw it a lot more with Salah in his second season where defenders knew what he wanted to do and prepared for it a lot better, but mostly still couldn't stop it because of his ability.
Still very early to call to be fair, but James is looking like a steal at the moment.Terrible business by the Glazers to spend 20 million on a championship level player while Arsenal spend 70 million on Pepe
This shit right is the reason why we shouldnt be spending bucket loads on players not in Spain or the EPL. No wonder we didnt want to touch Bruno with a 10 foot barge pole.
Regarding Pepe when I saw his compilation videos I knew he wouldn’t be able to get away with many of the tricks he used in league 1. Still I think he will be a useful player for arsenal but I don’t think he will reach the hights they expect.
He'll be at West Ham soon if he keeps up these performances.