No Europe - A blessing?

No Europe also means no excuses from whoever the manager is about being too tired or not having depth.
 
If we had the sort of talent available at clubs like Brighton for identifying and signing talent then sure, I could think this way.

The problem that we now have, is that we haven't got much money, and players are going to think twice and then think again before coming here. It's clear that we're a complete mess and you'd have to have very poor judgement to not consider this when United come in for you.

What we need now, are some under the radar, clever signings who big clubs are not going after. The problem with this is that we don't have the staff to achieve this. I can't find the interview now but I saw one recently where we said we don't bother with analytics or anything and just buy players based on the eye test...clearly we need to send our recruitment staff to Specsavers!
 
Why do we have this notion that players that dont want to come to us because we dont have CL to offer is worth missing out on? Like we only want to sign United fans? Thats whats important?
Most players on most big teams gives a lot of effort without being fans of the clubs they play for. I think is more to do with the standars and demands at the club, than other teams just signing "fans" and we only sign money grabbing players.
 
Globule said:
Yeah, for me it's just the money we're missing out on. You can attract good players without champions league football, and if no CL is a deal breaker for a player then we don't that player.

It's the money that's the killer considering the scale of the rebuild this team needs.
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I think we will get a decent return on a few players this summer

Rashford - 40m
Antony - 50m
Sancho - 25m
Greenwood (50% sell on clause)

(Garnacho 70m)

I think there's enough in there for signings in key areas.
 
It's not a blessing, it's a sentiment that leads to mediocrity and never taking your place at the top back, this has happen for other clubs already.

"It's a blessing we are not considered contenders, while we keep getting UCL money and players will be easy to bring and develop without the pressure of instant success"
"It's a blessing we're not playing the UCL now, money was never an issue, we can win some silverware and start creating a winning mentaility" (Especially funny because you threw that mentality on the reasoning above"
"It's a blessing we're not in European competitions, we can cut the players that shouldn't be in the club and start building towards top 4" (Again wishful thinking to reach the point you were at before).

And it's not going to happen at Manchester United (although this seasons things got close to become that ugly), but after you fail on the 3rd point above and want to find any new motivation, "It would be a blessing for us to be relegated, so our awful owners are forced to sell" starts sinking into the fans mentality, because at that point you haven't pushed for a League title in over a decade, UCL is a distant memory and you're just fed up with the situation.

The only way to push the exigence up and improve is to aim for the top objectives and deem anything else as a complete failure, never a blessing.
 
Massive blow in losing out on a reported up to £100 million from the Champions league.

Big blow in that it only seems to be Europe we can beat anyone who isn't being relegated.

We're all putting an incredible reliance that buying 3-4 players suddenly magics this dreadful 3 at the back system into something decent.

The big fear is this woeful form continues into the next few months of last year and that the promoted 3 clubs aren't as crap as this year's lot, and we don't have the "we're going well in the Europa" excuse for being terrible in the league.
 
Of course it is a blessing. Means that we have more time to concentrate on our relegation battle.
 
I don't think so. Playing in the Champions League is something a lot of players want, and we need to bring that caliber of player in. Not only that but we're not very likely to qualify for it next season either, we aren't going to jump from 17th to 4th in a single season in the league. I don't personally believe that the fatigue of playing 2 matches some weeks should make that much of a difference to top level squads. Our issues early in the season with Amorim were blamed on not enough practice.

And the elephant in the room: there doesn't seem to be a lot of money to spend on transfers, so an extra £100m would have been pretty useful.

We literally aren't good enough to be in Europe now, that's what players will see when we're approaching them.
 
We won't have to worry about Europe for a very very long time, for some of our more mature members you may have even seen Utd in a big European final for the last time. Hopefully not ,but just so hard to see us been anyway competitive in the league for the next few years at least.
 
A blessing perhaps, but can only be a blessing if we actually make some big overhauls this Summer. Having no European football for a season of trust, faith and hoping something works is just a recipe for disaster.
 
steeeb said:
Being out of Europe is the perfect time to trim down the squad massively, which should be the number one priority now and is probably a blessing and I think is what Amorim wanted to do a few Europa rounds ago but then obviously with getting to the final saw the obvious positives in winning it also.

We should look at getting rid of:
Lindelof
Evans
Shaw
Malacia - obligation to buy from PSV

Casemiro - If Saudi will make an offer, cash in as he's not good enough for PL football but can still do it elsewhere.
Eriksen - contact expires
Garnacho - Not suited to his system, terrible finishing - would turn it on in Spain or something though and potentially get a good fee for him
Anthony - we should get a good fee
Rashford - should get a good fee
Sancho.- just need him out of the club

Hojlund - Not good enough, but probably can't get a good offer, perhaps a loan and reassess the year after


If we manage to get rid of all the above, it massively massively reduces our wage bill and would do wonders for FFP. It's getting rid of 11 players, basically a 'whole team'. This is exactly what Amorim did at Sporting - a fire sale of everyone out


We'd be left with the following:
Onana - Ideally we should try sell him and get someone else in but not sure if we'd get the offers or not

Yoro
Martinez
De Ligt
Maguire
Heaven

Dorgu
Amad
Amass
Mazraoui
Leon

Ugarte
Bruno
Collyer

Mainoo
Mount
Zirkzee
Obi

If we bring in Cunha, another midfielder and a striker the squad is big enough to cope just with the PL and we'd be transformed, we'd have time to work with the players we have and we should be able to afford a good midfielder and striker since we'd be shipping out so many players and getting OK fees for Anthony, Rashford and Garnacho.

Then that is a good basis to build on next year with brining in a few more top players, or also bringing in young prospects this year along with the above.

The thing is, if we had Champions League football next year, ironically, it would be more difficult, there's no way we could get rid of 11 players without bringing many players in to give squad depth, which simply wouldn't be possible - we'd have no choice but to try hang on to some players.


Shame to see so many turning on Amorim. We've gone from being generally awful and creating nothing at all (because we were a poor counter attacking team being asked to actually play football for a change) and lost heads to actually 'somewhat' controlling games and creating some chances but it's obvious to everyone we have a problem scoring goals and also making some mistakes giving the ball away in silly situations which again is more of an issue because we aren't scoring goals - once the scoring issue is sorted with a new striker, midfielder and cunha then we'll look a completely different team.

Whilst not winning a final against Spurs is embarrassing, I do actually think it's a blessing and will help us get back to where we want to be quicker than keeping around players because they're needed for depth but still shouldn't be here.
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Great Post sensible one, and spot on, I was pissed lost that final and maybe because it was Spurs, as you mention about trimming the squad it has to be like that, they have to go because we won't get a reset , CL would have given us part reset. And maybe if a massive offer comes in for Bruno he could be off, I'd I definitely sell Garnacho now get as much as you can..
 
The Draw for players is the premier league as well as CL, players still want this league the pre season is massive on who comes in and who goes.. at least 4 or 5 new ones in and maybe 11 or more to go.. Only league and domestic cups to go for.. I'd rather go full out in league finish as high as you can..
 
Some irrational posting in here.
If a club like Leeds can attract players like Raphina then we're going to be fine for a while.

The recruitment is the most important thing now.
We need to keep building a young team because we can't build a team for right now with the money we have.
 
ElDiabloRojo said:
Then they don't want to play for us, only the European competitions.
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We are talking about professional athletes, not local fans. They join Football clubs and leave home for financial and/competitive reasons, otherwise most of them wouldn't leave their country.
 
The problem at United are the owners and most fans. The owners have no clue how to manage a club of this size and the fans used to have a club that was a giant and at the moment is a giant with no legs. A lot of pressure from fans and the top management panics and buys “top players “ who aren’t good enough to play for other top clubs to retire here with huge salaries. That’s what is happening for the last 10 years and is always the coach’s fault, Mourinho wasn’t good, Louis van Gaal wasn’t good, etc. Firing Amorim is not the solution but removing all the dead wood from the team and get young players - forget that BS of not PL proven, look at Barcelona a club basically bankrupt and they had to sale all the players with high salaries and rebuild their team, next year they are the ones playing the CL final.
 
Big Andy said:
Do we want to sign players who only want to play for United if it suits their ego of playing Champions League football?
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Good players want to play for good teams and compete at the top. That's not a negative thing.

Do you think the likes of Rio, Rooney, Keane, etc would have joined us if we were going through similar struggles if they also had other top teams trying to sign them at the time? No, they joined us because we were at least one of the top teams, if not the top team, at the time and they could easily see themselves achieving their ambitions.

If this was a one-off season out of the CL then of course it'd be different. But we've now only been in the CL once in the last four years, and got quickly knocked out in the group stage that time.

It doesn't mean we can't sign any good players, it's just that it's obviously going to make it more difficult. We may have to sign our 3rd, 4th, 5th choice players instead of getting our 1st or 2nd choices, increasing the odds that they aren't a success, etc.
 
My opinion, which many night disagree with, is that this loss and the lack of European football is the better outcome. Don't get me wrong, I'd have loved the win last night, i was distraught with the result, but now I think a bit clearer and this is how I see things - we're way below UCL standards.

A couple seasons ago we couldn't get out of a group with Galatasaray and Copenhagen and I wouldn't say we've gotten better since then. Only policy we've been having since SAF left is to try and patch up the team with superstars, who won't necessarily have it as their number one priority to be here, money was almost predominantly the driving force. At least that's what it looked like on the pitch. UCL football would've brought us more of that.

Now, we're gonna get players, who truly want to be in the club, or at least I hope so. All I wanted to see from this team in the last two seasons is fecking passion. Nothing else. I want these useless cnuts to run like never before and cover every blade of grass like their families' lives are at stake. I want them to hate themselves after a loss and immediately reprimand themselves in the next game. I can just pray that such players join the team and last night's result has to be the catalyst for this change.
 
Betson said:
We won't have to worry about Europe for a very very long time, for some of our more mature members you may have even seen Utd in a big European final for the last time. Hopefully not ,but just so hard to see us been anyway competitive in the league for the next few years at least.
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I get it's a hard moment for the club & fans but I don't think the reality is anywhere near as doomer as this, however much I sympathize with the sentiment right now.

Arsenal, Villa, Newcastle, Forest potentially this season.... apart from Arsenal who's big low was ninth, all these clubs have gone as far as being relegated and yet they're now seriously competent outfits. Even Liverpool had some mediocre periods and look at them now. In the short term it rightly feels like a disaster, because it is, but long term I'm sure we'll get it together.

Regardless of his suitability for the role, Amorim correctly pointed out that the club needed a shock, as did Ragnick prior to this. All we can hope is that we're at that point and things get better from here.
 
Salford_Red83 said:
I only want players that want to play for us, not because of the competition we're playing in.
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Even Liam Delap said we were only a consideration for him if we won the EL and playing in the CL next season.

Liam fecking Delap. From relegated Ipswich.
 
Fewer games means hopefully a slimline squad next season.

Bedding in a number of academy prospects and retaining only the players with quality and right approach, who actually want to graft and make it work.

It's not better than the alternative, but if there is a silver lining we're going to be swallowing some frogs this summer
 
Nah I don't think so.

There are a couple of positives in the we should have less injuries, don't need as big a squad, we'll get to play more Saturdays, and won't have to be embarassed in the Champions League.

The counter to that though is that we lose the money from European football, we becomes a less attractive option when trying to sign players, and the trimming of the squad will likely be players who didn't play much anyway, they'll be let go and not replaced so it won't really help anything.

Not qualifying for Europe can help teams at the top who are actually trying to win the title or maybe struggling to get a top 4 place while playing in Europe, or teams who've qualified in the seasons past but have had poor campaigns due to overuse of their squad if they haven't been able to add to it.

For us no, it won't really help in any meaningful way plus we lose out on the income.
 
It will be much easier only playing once per week and will give the manager a lot more time on the training ground. On balance, however, it’s a big negative to not be in Europe. This club should always be in European competitions. It will have a big financial impact and affect the ability to sign targets this summer.
 
Salford_Red83 said:
I only want players that want to play for us, not because of the competition we're playing in.
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As much as this sounds good, very few players have a real affiliation to United or truly truly care - the attraction of United wasn't living in Manchester, it was based on our exploits in the CL - that's what really made us famous outside of the UK with 99 and then the continued success through to SAF's retirement. Ronaldo would not have come here if we were where we are now, for example, as much as we'd love guys who truly care for the club we wouldn't be able to get young Rooney, Ruud, Rio etc. because they'd have many other options who can pay as much as us and offer CL football.
 
The squad is to big and not good enough to basically strip it Europe would hinder it, losing the final is massive and not good, but the bigger picture depends on the board on how they move forward, I'm looking at no Europe for 2 seasons at least..
 
The other clubs fighting for a spot in Europe have not yet realized, that it's a positive, both player health-wise and financially, when they won't have to pay CL bonuses. Also, more training by the manager to establish the system. If Aston Villa know what's good for them, Emery will throw the match against us.
 
Drainy said:
Fewer games means hopefully a slimline squad next season.

Bedding in a number of academy prospects and retaining only the players with quality and right approach, who actually want to graft and make it work.

It's not better than the alternative, but if there is a silver lining we're going to be swallowing some frogs this summer
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I feel I have to think the same why. Getting into CL would potentially have given the illusion we didn’t need to do as much as we actually need to do.

I see this as the actual reset we need. Trim the squad as we don’t need to juggle European fixtures. Get rid of those who are clearly a burden.

It helped Arsenal when they were in the European abyss.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
As much as this sounds good, very few players have a real affiliation to United or truly truly care - the attraction of United wasn't living in Manchester, it was based on our exploits in the CL - that's what really made us famous outside of the UK with 99 and then the continued success through to SAF's retirement. Ronaldo would not have come here if we were where we are now, for example, as much as we'd love guys who truly care for the club we wouldn't be able to get young Rooney, Ruud, Rio etc. because they'd have many other options who can pay as much as us and offer CL football.
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Obviously we're not gonna attract top talents, but we have to start from somewhere and our brand name gives us inherent advantage over other mid-table clubs that may want the same kind of shrewd signings that they make with the likes of Eze, Huijsen, Mbuemo, etc.
 
Wheato said:
I think we will get a decent return on a few players this summer

Rashford - 40m
Antony - 50m
Sancho - 25m
Greenwood (50% sell on clause)

(Garnacho 70m)

I think there's enough in there for signings in key areas.
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These numbers are crazy high. £185m for those 4? If Ratcliffe was offered half that amount to get them all off the books he’d rip your arm off.
How many clubs could afford to pay a £50m transfer fee and match Antony’s 200k/week wages? There’s probably only 6 or 7 clubs in Europe who pay that kind of combined fee & wages for ANY player, and they sure as hell aren’t going to do it for Antony.
 
I wouldn’t say it is beneficial. It is harder to to attract players and you miss out on the a lot of money.

But you can take advantage of it. You can trim the squad down, you can use the middle use the middle of the week to train more. This is theoretical though, there’s no guarantee that it will work out well for us in this way.
 
We needed Europe for the money for a better window and better players, that is more important than just having pl games next year to concentrate on.

We're fecked, there'll be the usual teams Arsenal, Chelsea, City, Liverpool, even Spurs who will get better players in and we'll be even more behind catching them up.

We're just simply fecked. there is no blessing. We've added years on the catch up
 
Fooza said:
We needed Europe for the money for a better window and better players, that is more important than just having pl games next year to concentrate on.
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I think its entirely possible to seriously improve our squad without Europe.

What we actually need doesn’t cost alot outside of the CF position where we should not be trying to penny pinch. There are quite a few quality free transfers available and we also have a few leaving on a free. On top of that there is a lot of talent accross Europe that is undervalued. What we need is a competent team to take recruitment seriously this summer and in Jan and to have a clear and ambitious project and vision to sell to prospective players.
 
No there is 0 poitives in this defeat. No excuses, no silver lining, no blessing, no copium. We gave ultimate bottlers a trophy. Their worst form in decades, squad full of injuries, even worse in the league than us. Shit, just shit.
 
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