Its quite weird this guy confuses can't with doesn't when their is clear evidence that he can.
Nordic Ghost Yeti | Haaland at City
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
Yeah. I wouldn’t bother replying if his point was that most of Haaland’s goals look unremarkable, but every season he produces a few "wow" moments so his black and white take seems odd.
Funny how this thread keeps evolving.
First it was: nah he's not better than Martial, don't want him. (Only soon to realize he is way better than Martial.)
Then it was: Nah, everyone can score in a farmers league, can't do it in PL. (Only to realize he crushes every goalscoring record in the histpry of PL)
Latest now is to question how good he really is, because he don't dribble that much, and scores a lot of his goal on his first touch.
Anyway, I guess Haaland have proved himself when the discussion went from "not better than Martial", to argue who's best; Haaland or Messi.
First it was: nah he's not better than Martial, don't want him. (Only soon to realize he is way better than Martial.)
Then it was: Nah, everyone can score in a farmers league, can't do it in PL. (Only to realize he crushes every goalscoring record in the histpry of PL)
Latest now is to question how good he really is, because he don't dribble that much, and scores a lot of his goal on his first touch.
Anyway, I guess Haaland have proved himself when the discussion went from "not better than Martial", to argue who's best; Haaland or Messi.
People really comparing him to Messi? Wow.
Haaland isn't half the player Messi is/was.Where did you read that?
And no, he's not better than Messi and will never be. That's not even up to debate.
Not really
Only thing would be comparisons to Ronaldo and Messi’s goal output, but nobody sane would claim Haaland is close to prime Messi overall.
Not really
Only thing would be comparisons to Ronaldo and Messi’s goal output, but nobody sane would claim Haaland is close to prime Messi overall.
sorry, so many wild (& extreme) takes on the Caf, ones not sure what’s real or not these days. Immense goal scorer indeed. At this rate, will go down as one of the GOAT CF’s.
I a
Well, they weren't really saying he is better than Messi, but there's like 10 pages of arguing who deserves the Ballon d'or, with all sorts of stats going back and forth.
And of course, he is a long way of the greatest player of all time. But it's a big step up when the discussion moves from Lukaku 2.0 to Messi.
Aargh I get you. I haven’t been following the thread if I’m honest but yeah he’ll be up there if city manage to pull off the UCL win - moreso if he has a good home semi and final to boot.
Anyway. Still think the performances and WC win will be too much for anyone to overcome.
It was. He scored it at a time when he had transformed into a goal poacher.
Sorry, you came in hot on the heels of someone else talking about him not scoring any spectacular goals. I see you were mainly talking about his dribbling abilities, which I agree aren’t elite. Very functional and good for his uses, but very limited compared to the likes of R9.
Every player can occasionally produce a great moment. Oshea nutmegged Figo and scored a chipped goal vs Arsenal, Van Nistelrooy once ran from the halfway line to score vs Fulham, etc. Does it mean they were capable of doing these things but just did not want to do them?
Footballers know their limitations. There is a reason why Cristiano became a goalpoacher in his later years or Messi moved deeper into midfield as he grew older. Haaland doesn't dribble alot or shoot alot because he knows his limits. Its not like he has some secret powers that he isn't willing to show for some weird reason.
Haaland is class, finds space in the tightest of spots to score. Already the highest scorer in the PL and the season is not over yet.
It's mind blowing how a 22 year old in his first season in a new country has 52 goals (and counting) and has people doubting his abilities...
People aren't really questioning his ability as a goal scorer, they are questioning the other parts of his game. He is not as good as the goals would have you believe though. City are the best team in the league with or without Haaland and the players behind him create so many chances. He would likely struggle to look close to his current level in the Man United team.
He would still score 30+ goals in this United team if not more
Would be interesting to see how high he was off the ground when he connected with that header.
When you are 6ft4 and can spring like that not much chance for a defender
When you are 6ft4 and can spring like that not much chance for a defender
He’s only 22. His game has plenty of time to improve.
What is there to question? He plays on a side that requires more technically, tactically, physically, and mentally than any team in the world and is the most unplayable player on it. There are no passengers on that side and if he had material shortcomings he wouldn’t play.
I understand that he there are parts of his game that are not at an elite level, but that can be said about basically every player in the world. Regardless, we are at the end of the season and nobody has figured out how to stop him. He set the scoring record in 31 appearances, at this juncture his accomplishments stand on their own. If you’re expecting him to carry the ball on 40 meter slalom runs several times per match or to do a rabona scissor kick goal into the top bins from 30 yards in order to proclaim that he is currently one of the best players on the planet, then you will never be convinced.
Sadly hyperbole really is a thing in this thread.
The names that have been brought up in comparison to him in this thread are cringeworthy, Pele has been mentioned, Diego, peak R9, 22 year old Leo. There was even a poster who questioned whether he had more natural ability than Roberto freaking Baggio.
What is going on?
Exceptional goalscorer, but all that other stuff (great dribbling?), really?
Read the thread back. There were individuals claiming that no forwards his age or younger were better in history, including I'll Phenomeno, wh already had a Balon Dors, a WC, Copa and was playing at at a godly level. Yes, individuals were comparing Haaland to that, never mind a a 2009/2010 Leo Messi.Not really
Only thing would be comparisons to Ronaldo and Messi’s goal output, but nobody sane would claim Haaland is close to prime Messi overall.
He is different from Messi and Ronaldo and in comparison to both he is lacking the unworldly dribbling both were capable of. Or the ability to take unreal free kicks.
Mbappé looks more like a future goat than Haaland, but Haaland is more committed and works harder.
We could have had him for 4 million, but the club said ‚no thanks‘.
Mbappé looks more like a future goat than Haaland, but Haaland is more committed and works harder.
We could have had him for 4 million, but the club said ‚no thanks‘.
I think the last sentence of your post shows that this thread has swung from ridiculous in one direction (Bundesliga tax, can't hack it in a proper league) to ridiculous in the other direction (better than Messi, most prolific goalscorer in the history of football, insane dribbling talent, etc.).
Cristiano was only a great dribbler at United. The Madrid version of him is not that different from Haaland, great speed and finishing mostly.
Agree with this 100%
His much vaunted free kick ability also went away.
Cristiano completed in 3 separated seasons in Madrid as much or more dribbles than Haaland did between 2018-2023 *combined* (His whole professional career basically), He had additional 3 seasons that were 10% off Haaland total too, Cristiano was a *winger* that got double guarded at any time of the game because of his obvious dribbling threat. Cristiano scored 29 direct freekick goals in his first 5 years in madrid, For comparison Messi best 5 years output was 33.
I can make a case for 36 years old Cristiano Ronaldo in Juventus shirt being vastly superior to Haaland general play pretty easily, Let alone prime Madrid Cristiano. Absurd takes.
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Personally I wouldn't give a shite about dribbling if this guy played for us. The only dribbling that seems relevant is the three or four touches he will occasionally take to run away from a defender and leather it into the net. Most of the time he doens't even need that. As a striker he does everything that defenders hate to face and he's ruthless.
He's never going to have the creativity or pure technical ability of some greats, but he'll likely be a great in his own style. Goals are goals ultimately...he is going to be playing for the top teams in his career where that stuff is nowhere near as relevant as his movement, physicality and finishing, and the value he'll add to them is probably not going to be that much different to what Ronaldo did over his career. It's just about consistency and longevity to become great, but he's made a pretty handy start.
He's never going to have the creativity or pure technical ability of some greats, but he'll likely be a great in his own style. Goals are goals ultimately...he is going to be playing for the top teams in his career where that stuff is nowhere near as relevant as his movement, physicality and finishing, and the value he'll add to them is probably not going to be that much different to what Ronaldo did over his career. It's just about consistency and longevity to become great, but he's made a pretty handy start.
Mbappé won't be a future goat either. He's amazing for sure but he lacks a couple of tools he's unlikely to develop (at a very high level I mean) at his age.
He might be in the conversation if he scores important goals in very big games since his drive can be immense and he plays for one of the best NT in the world, but as a football player, he'll never be a Pelé/Maradona/Messi kind of GOAT.
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I am not angry. I am a little bit annoyed, because I think you're making a blinkered argument.
Sorry, I missed that you posted those stats.
However, you still don't have much of a point. I just watched all 25 goals Robert Lewandowski scored for Barcelona this season. Two of them were scored from outside the area - both by the finest of margins, another 30 cms in and they're from inside. Not a single one of them involved dribbling past a defender. Again, this is how prolific strikers score nearly all of their goals - it's not a particular trait of Haaland's. And the fact that they do doesn't mean they lack the ability to shoot well from distance, as they have both shown on many occasions. But why would they? You're not doing a good job as a striker if that's where you're getting your shooting opportunities.
As for dribbles, we should perhaps also consider that Haaland tends to rely instead on his speed and power if needs to get the ball past a defender, which he does fairly often. I don't think those show up as dribbles in the stats. They seem to work though.
Again, I think most people would only compare when it comes to goal output, and the Messi comparisons mainly come up with regards to the Balon d’Or, which is totally fair considering the season Haaland’s had. Anybody trying to claim he can playmake or dribble anything like those two aren’t included in my category of "sane" people. As a straight goalscoring forward he might be the most extreme specimen we’ve seen. As an overall player, clearly not.
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That is only true of the latter half of his Madrid career. For the first couple of seasons, he did everything in a Madrid shirt.
His early years at Madid he was a decent dribbler (not a great one).
His highest dribbles completed per game is 3.3 in his first season at Madrid. Until he was 30 (season 2014/2015) his dribbles completed were between 2 and 2.5 per game. Thereafter, he was around 1 per game and had essentially morphed into a goal poacher.
I don't have his stats for his time here but in his early years (2003 to 2006) he used to attempt alot of dribbles, lost the ball ALOT and generally his dribbling was pointless because it never achieved anything.
06/07 was for me his best season here (and maybe ever) interms of allround play including dribbling.
07/08 version was more like Ronaldo of Real Madrid, more to do with goals with decent dribbling.
08/09 was sulky Ronaldo who was poor till March/April, than he was more like Ronaldo of the previous season
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Number of dribbles per 90 doesn't say anything about your abilities as a dribbler. It only gives you an indication of how often you dribble. Lets compare Haaland an Mbappe this season for instance as an example:
Mbappe in Ligue 1 this season:
2,44 successful dribbles per 90
Haaland in the PL this season:
0,37 successful dribbles per 90
See how much better Mbappe is at dribbling many will say looking at this.
Context:
Mbappe's number of dribbling attempts in Ligue 1 this season:
6,68 dribbling attempts per 90.
Dispossessed while dribbling 4,24 times per 90
Successrate: 36,5%
Haaland's number of dribbling attempts in Ligue 1 this season:
1,01 dribbling attempts per 90.
Dispossessed while dribbling 0,64 times per 90
Successrate: 36,7%
Kane is on 38%, Benzema on 42%, Lewa on 51% and Messi on 55%
As you can see it is more about playingstyle rather than actual ability. Both Haaland and Mbappe has a lower successrate than "usual" this season (Both was on 54% last season).
Haaland only attempts dribbles when he must, while Mbappe dribbles at every opportunity, that's more down to their playing style than their ability. Haaland releases the ball on his 1st or 2nd touch most of the time, plays very direct/vertical and doesn't drop deep as often as many others, but that says more about his playingstyle than his abilities or skills as a footballer.
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I bet he's terrible at goalkeeping though. #NotACompletePlayer
Because he doesn’t have close ball control or silky skills to pass their eye test. Some people just doesn’t like these types of footballers, regardless of how unstoppable he was on the pitch.
I bet he's better than Messi at goalkeeping though....
Cristiano completed 487 dribbles between 2010-2014 in La Liga+Champions League, That's more than any other player playing in EPL/La Liga did in that same period other than peak Messi. Ronaldo was double guarded every single game, His success rate was higher than Kylian Mbappe in PSG career, Who completed 499 dribbles in his last 5 seasons in the 6th ranked league+CL for comparison. I would argue Cristiano Solo goals repertoire was also only second to Messi in Europe during that timeframe. To claim he was only "decent" dribble is a complete nonsense.
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That’s not entirely correct. In terms of playing style, it’s true his Man Utd version (03-08) is more like Neymar, while his early Madrid version (09-13) is more like Mbappe, whereas his late Madrid version (14-18) is more like Haaland.
Fair summary if you ask me.