Northern Ireland Thread

[utdalltheway]

Dont think it has to do with terrorism (more likely drugs), but my cousin was shot dead about an hour ago outside his mum's house. Just checking the Ulster news now on the radio to find out more.

how old was he? awful that's he's an only child. it just seems so much worse, if you know what I mean.

 

[utdalltheway]

Oh, OK. I'd love to here a Unionist view on this then, just to see if there is another side to the coin. Where were they marching? Was it in a republican/nationalist area?

GB, change the child's nappy and chime in here.

 

[Badunk]

how old was he? awful that's he's an only child. it just seems so much worse, if you know what I mean.

Yeah. He was 31.

 

[JakeC]

Every time this thread is bumped, I worry a little inside.

 

[Badunk]

http://www.ireland.com/breaking-news/order-apologises-to-catholic-church/674735

Hopes are increasing that a major loyalist rally in Belfast later this month will pass off without trouble.

It followed an unprecedented apology by the Royal Black Institution to Catholic clergy and parishioners in the city centre where band members ignored a ruling not to play music outside their church during a march last month.

Sinn Féin’s Gerry Kelly said: “It is a step in the right direction.” Northern Ireland First Minister Peter Robinson and Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness have been heavily involved in talks to find some sort of agreement in advance of a huge rally by another of the loyal orders, the Orange Order, in Belfast on September 29th when thousands are expected on the streets.

More behind-the-scenes discussions are due to take place and may involve community representatives in north Belfast, where three nights of serious rioting earlier this week left scores of police officers injured.

The Protestant paramilitary Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF) has been accused of orchestrating the trouble.

A statement by the Institution’s sovereign grand master William Farr said: “We have always had good lines of communication with the Roman Catholic Church and we would intend to continue to maintain and consolidate these, away from the public gaze.

“The sense of injustice and hurt felt by the members of the Royal Black Institution is focused on the Parades Commission and its irrational and often irresponsible determinations. The Royal Black Institution is founded on Christian principles and all of our processions are to and from an act of worship.

“Our institution is determined to play its full part in civic society and make Northern Ireland a peaceful and prosperous part of the United Kingdom where cultural diversity is respected.”

All sides believe the apology could clear the way for a resolution to the issue of the big march to mark the anniversary of the signing of the Ulster Covenant. It was immediately welcomed by the priests of St Patrick’s Church.

Nelson McCausland, a Democratic Unionist Party minister in the power-sharing executive at Stormont and whose constituency includes the loyalist area at the centre of the violence, said today: “It is a sign of maturity.”

PA

 

[Scrumpet]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-20164370

The family of a Northern Ireland prison officer murdered as he drove to work has been left "absolutely devastated".

David Black, 52, from Cookstown was attacked on the M1 motorway at 07:30 GMT as he drove to HMP Maghaberry. Dissident republicans are being blamed.

A car with Dublin registration plates drove up beside him and fired a number of shots. His car veered into a ditch.

...


Mr Black was attacked on the motorway between Portadown and Lurgan. The motorway was closed for most of the day after the attack but has now re-opened.

The car with Dublin registration plates was later found burned out at Inglewood, Lurgan, County Armagh.

There has been widespread condemnation of the murder. Prime Minister David Cameron said the Westminster government would do whatever it could to help the Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI) bring the killers to justice.

"First and foremost this is a dreadful tragedy for the family and friends of David Black who has been so brutally murdered as he went about his work keeping the people of Northern Ireland safe," he said.

"My heart goes out to them. These killers will not succeed in denying the people of Northern Ireland the peaceful, shared future they so desperately want."

...

First Minister Peter Robinson said those responsible for Mr Black's murder were "flat earth fanatics" and "deviants".

He added that the murder would only serve to galvanise and unify the community and its leaders.

Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness unreservedly condemned the murder and said those responsible could not kill the peace process.

He said there was an onus on what he called the "mouthpieces" who sometimes speak for these groups to come out to explain the rationale behind "this pointless and futile killing".

PSNI Chief Constable Matt Baggott said the killing was a "completely senseless attack" and the victim was "brutally murdered".

Mr Black's murder was also condemned by the Orange Order. He had been a member of Montober LOL 661, a lodge based in Cookstown.

Mr Black was a very experienced prison officer and had worked through the Troubles.

He was one of hundreds of officers who had applied for the prison service redundancy scheme. His application was under consideration and he was awaiting a decision.

 

[JakeC]

Absolutely disgusting.

And that Provo bastard who wanted to be president of Ireland standing beside them and condemning it, knowing he's a scumbag.

These 'Dissident Republicans' need to be stamped out.

 

[Cutch]

Shocking. So pointless

 

[Badunk]

I hate it when this thread gets bumped

 

[An Irish Red]

There have been allegations of mistreatment of republican prisoners in maghaberry for some time now (alleged strip searches and that carry on). If you believe that to be the case (I have no idea how true it is, I'm not in the jail) then I can't think of many things more inflammatory to do than shooting the colleague of the men who lock your friends up at night. It's not going to gain support for political status, it's not going to better their living conditions in the jail and it's not really going to achieve anything other than emotionally destroying a family and taking away a mans life.

Pointless.

 

[JakeC]

There have been allegations of mistreatment of republican prisoners in maghaberry for some time now (alleged strip searches and that carry on). If you believe that to be the case (I have no idea how true it is, I'm not in the jail) then I can't think of many things more inflammatory to do than shooting the colleague of the men who lock your friends up at night. It's not going to gain support for political status, it's not going to better their living conditions in the jail and it's not really going to achieve anything other than emotionally destroying a family and taking away a mans life.

Pointless.

Same in all 'gang' wars. Or other similar incidents.

That RA head that was shot in Dublin has become a bit of a martyr now, hasn't he?

Graffiti everywhere, most of it spelled wrong.

 

[Scrumpet]

Don't worry, nothing too bad, but this is probably the most appropriate thread for the latest bout of feckwittery in NI.

Trouble erupts in Belfast after council votes to change Union flag policy

Five police officers have been hurt during disorder in Belfast that erupted minutes after the council voted to change its policy on the Union flag.

A number of loyalist protesters tried to force their way into Belfast City Hall where the vote took place.

Two security staff at the hall and a press photographer were also injured. Separately, trouble broke out on the Lower Newtownards Road in east Belfast.

The council voted to fly the flag only on 15 designated days during the year.

The decision marks a change to the current policy by which the flag is displayed outside the building 365 days a year, but the council's decision has angered many loyalists.

Some of the protesters who had gathered outside the city hall used metal barriers, bottles and golf balls to attack police.

A PSNI spokeswoman said they had deployed additional resources to deal with public disorder in both central and east Belfast.

There was an attempt to hijack a bus on the Albertbridge Road, and there are reports that St Matthew's Catholic Church has come under attack.

Of the five officers who were hurt, two policewomen have been taken to hospital with injuries that are not believed to be life threatening.

The Press Association (PA) also said that one of its photographers has sustained a head injury after getting caught up in the violence at the city hall.

The vote was called when nationalist councillors - who now hold a majority on the council - proposed a motion to remove the Union flag completely.

However, both Sinn Fein and the SDLP backed a compromise amendment, proposed by the Alliance party, to display the flag on designated days, in line with the current policy at Stormont.

The Alliance motion was passed by 29 votes to 21.

Minutes later, a number of loyalist protesters broke through the rear gates of the grounds of the city hall and tried to force open the doors of the building.

BBC Northern Ireland's political reporter, Martina Purdy, who was at the scene, said one security guard appeared to be bleeding from a head wound while a policewoman had sustained a hand injury.

She said the protesters had shouted "shame" and "no surrender" when they broke into the courtyard of Belfast City Hall, waving flags.

A pane of glass was shattered as the demonstrators tried to break open the doors of the 106-year-old building.

Windows were also smashed on a number of cars parked within the courtyard, including a vehicle belonging to a DUP councillor.

Our reporter said police had worked to restore calm.

SDLP councillor, Tim Attwood, who took part in the vote, said: "This was an appalling spectacle, resulting in significant damage to property and, most alarmingly, injury to a number of those seeking to keep city hall secure, and our thoughts are with those who were hurt.

"Any attempt at a resort to mob rule cannot be countenanced," Mr Attwood said.

Marie Hendron from Alliance said she believed the violence had been "orchestrated". She said it was a "disaster for this city".

Ahead of the vote, more than 1,000 loyalists gathered in May Street to protest about the proposal to change the flag policy.

Nationalist councillors had argued that removing the flag would create a more equal and neutral environment in a divided city.

However, Unionist councillors accused Sinn Fein and the SDLP of "raising tensions" and abusing their majority on the council.

Combined, Sinn Fein and the SDLP now outnumber unionist councillors by 24 to 21.

 

[PhilipB]

Yea, I posted about it in the random chat thread. Wasn't sure if I should have put it in here or not. Complete feckwits.

 

[An Irish Red]

Yea, I posted about it in the random chat thread. Wasn't sure if I should have put it in here or not. Complete feckwits.

Willie Frazier and his band of merry men were up in Belfast for the 'protest' also. Not like him to be involved in embarrassing scenes....

 

[An Irish Red]

Tenner says arrests are in single figures.

The loyalists got right up to the doors of the place, nationalists wouldn't have made it through the gates before getting completely battered senseless.

 

[An Irish Red]

Water cannons are in the mechanics too I assume?

Not as far as I can see.

The unionist politicians stoked the tensions up for this one, as they like to do when it suits them. They know rightly when they tell everyone to get out onto the streets that trouble will happen. Paisley has them well trained in that respect. Used to be more of them in his day though, the times they are a changing etc.

 

[TheReligion]

The loyalists got right up to the doors of the place, nationalists wouldn't have made it through the gates before getting completely battered senseless.

The irony here is quite funny.

No wonder this kind of crap goes on.

 

[PhilipB]

The irony here is quite funny.

No wonder this kind of crap goes on.

I actually agree with you.

"You did this"

"Yea but you did this"

"Yea but then you did this"

etc etc. No one ever taking personal responsibility and admitting we're all feckwits, just throwing blame on one side or another.

 

[An Irish Red]

The irony here is quite funny.

No wonder this kind of crap goes on.

Police in nationalist areas in Derry have used 'stop and search' legislation to search nationalists 2400 times over a three month period. Out of those 2400 searches the police didn't recover anything. They have used the legislation just the once in loyalist Larne and found drugs on the boy.

So whats ironic about me suggesting loyalists and nationalists are treated differently by the forces of the state? I read on here before that you are a policeman, so perhaps you could shed some light on this discrepancy?

 

[sammymc]

"However, Unionist councillors accused Sinn Fein and the SDLP of "raising tensions" and abusing their majority on the council."


disgraceful stuff....if theres one thing unionists hate its raising tension and abusing their majority on a council.




loyalists/unionists really dont like a democratic process if it goes against them in anyway....the thing to remember is the only thing loyalists are loyal to is themselves.

 

[sammymc]

well i dont think any side can sleg the others off for dealing.

 

[An Irish Red]

loyalists/unionists really dont like a democratic process if it goes against them in anyway....the thing to remember is the only thing loyalists are loyal to is themselves.

In a nutshell. You'd think after decades of complaining about republicanism not being a part of the democratic process they would be happy enough with all changes being subject to democratic means but apparently not.

 

[sammymc]

the state was founded on an undemocratic premise...they rejected the democratic process as soon as it appeared things wouldnt go the way they wanted.


nothing ever changes

 

[TheReligion]

Police in nationalist areas in Derry have used 'stop and search' legislation to search nationalists 2400 times over a three month period. Out of those 2400 searches the police didn't recover anything. They have used the legislation just the once in loyalist Larne and found drugs on the boy.

So whats ironic about me suggesting loyalists and nationalists are treated differently by the forces of the state? I read on here before that you are a policeman, so perhaps you could shed some light on this discrepancy?

No I can't.

What I can do though is see just why there is so much nonsense in NI when I read some of the posts on this forum. Thing will never change as the attitudes of many are so biased and biggoted that those who want peace are fighting a losing battle.

 

[sammymc]

the problem with idea of peace is the majority may want it, but only in the way that satisfies them...

 

[TheReligion]

the problem with idea of peace is the majority may want it, but only in the way that satisfies them...

That is spot on actually.

It is a very childish mentality that will unfortunately result in continued misery for many.

 

[Scrumpet]

Scrumpet's facebook friends have their say:

Spoiler

I'm sure many of us have friends maybe even family fighting for the British army and now our government won't agree to flying the union flag, the flag that Northern Irish troops are fighting for, outside our city hall 365 days of the year? disgraceful!

flags are for fags

And this is why I moved to England.. Northern Ireland rioting again!! Never guna change!

Hopefully a pirate flag gets put up, a-hoy

 

[Irwinwastheking]

Flags are for fags.

Lads can we try to make a special effort to try and keep one NI thread free of any bullshit, please.

 

[Eyepopper]

No I can't.

What I can do though is see just why there is so much nonsense in NI when I read some of the posts on this forum. Thing will never change as the attitudes of many are so biased and biggoted that those who want peace are fighting a losing battle.

Utter nonsense. If anything reality is the total opposite.

Even in my lifetime the north has changed for the better beyond what anyone could've hoped 25 years ago.

Obviously it's going to take a long time for the attitudes you mention to subside but to say those fighting for peace are fighting a losing battle is bull.

 

[Rooney24]

Such a load of balls over nothing at the end of the day.

I used to walk past Belfast City Hall every day of my life and you would be hard pushed to even notice a flag flying on there.

99% of those causing trouble last night probably never even knew the flag was there until this motion was brought. And its removal is hardly going to make a huge difference to their daily life at the end of the day.

But any excuse for a few hoodlums to take to the streets to be offended over nothing.

Wankers.

 

[sammymc]

getting offended over nothing and perceived sleights is the norm for both sides though.

constant agitation and taking offence are the ulster way.

 

[TheReligion]

Well yes popper, but the nationalists behaved themselves last night, so he needs to have a go at us in a different way this morning.

Eh? I don't really care about Ireland and all the nonsense that goes on there. Don't try and lump me into a category to suit your agenda. None of what goes on concerns me in the slightest, however, this doesn't mean I am not entitled to an opinion.

I feel sorry for the people that have to put up with the childish mentality of certain people who thrive on the "us versus them" attitude.

You are a prime example of this and the attitudes that prevent things moving forward.

 

[TheReligion]

Utter nonsense. If anything reality is the total opposite.

Even in my lifetime the north has changed for the better beyond what anyone could've hoped 25 years ago.

Obviously it's going to take a long time for the attitudes you mention to subside but to say those fighting for peace are fighting a losing battle is bull.

I thought that was the case too, but when I read what I do on here from certain posters, even young ones, it is clear people are brought up with this "us and them" attitude. To me, this is worrying.

 

[bazalini]

I have put forward a motion to the DUP where they erect the union jack in the garden of remembrance alongside a tricolour in honor of the British and Irish people who died in wars. I think this is a sensible proposal seeing as it would allow for a union jack 365 days a year while also honoring tthose Irish who fought in all the wars alongside their British comrades.

Waiting to hear. Fingers crossed

 

[PhilipB]

I have put forward a motion to the DUP where they erect the union jack in the garden of remembrance alongside a tricolour in honor of the British and Irish people who died in wars. I think this is a sensible proposal seeing as it would allow for a union jack 365 days a year while also honoring tthose Irish who fought in all the wars alongside their British comrades.

Waiting to hear. Fingers crossed

I actually think this isn't a bad idea although it will never happen.

 

[utdalltheway]

"However, Unionist councillors accused Sinn Fein and the SDLP of "raising tensions" and abusing their majority on the council.

Combined, Sinn Fein and the SDLP now outnumber unionist councillors by 24 to 21."

deserves at least two.
those unionists continue to provide great fodder.

 

[PhilipB]

 

[Ramshock]

All this over a fecking tablecloth on a stick, fecking ridiculous.

 

[utdalltheway]

they can always hop over to Great Britain to see plenty of union jacks flying, if that's what they like.

 

[bazalini]

I actually think this isn't a bad idea although it will never happen.

Have emailed my SDLP & SF councillors with the suggestion