I’d argue we should be finishing with 80 points at least with this squad so that is interesting.We're currently on pace for 74 points. Do you know when was the last time that 74 points was enough for the Premier League title?
Never. We're not in a title race.
This.Football is a funny old game.
This season, moreso than any in recent memory it’s been about the squad, rather than the first 11, or even first 16 players.
Every club seems to have been blighted by injuries, coronavirus cases, fixture congestion, loss of home support, advantage of no away support and the general lack of inability to prepare.
The advantage that Manchester have had and I’d argue West Ham as well, as that the stadiums they have, weren’t built for football originally. They haven’t felt the impact of loss of them like other clubs have.
Manchester City have also got the biggest and most expensive squad in the league. Surely you’d consider a massive failure on their part of they didn’t go on to win the league.
The race itself is now down to top finishing in the top 4. At the moment I’d say that that it’s three teams from seven for those spots.
I’d like to think Manchester United and Leicester take two of those slots this season.
It will click at Liverpool at some point and they didn’t deserve to lose that game against Leicester yesterday. They were far the superior team and on a different day would have sealed the game before half time.
Chelsea look to be improving already under Tunchel, however we need to see if it’s new manager bounce or his tactical knowledge will see them over the edge to push Liverpool.
Villa, Everton, Spurs and West Ham I feel will drop away.
After leading 2-0 and 3-2 with a few seconds left ?It's the Sheffield loss that fecked us up, unfortunately. Drawing with Everton happens, but losing to the bottom of the league while a team like City is chasing you is a disaster for a title challenging team.
I think that just highlights the trouble of this season though.After leading 2-0 and 3-2 with a few seconds left ?
And being 8 points come the end of the season, as opposed to 20, would be progress. Less would be even better.Erm, we’re 8 points behind them
That’s a brilliant point actually.I believe that the gap will be double digits after we play City. However, we still need to follow them as closely as possible, as if they are too comfortable in the prem, they will sacrifice a couple of matches for the sake of CL.
We’re still in the FA Cup, we’re in the Europa League and by Wednesday, City will have played that game in hand and will be at least 5 points clear of us with a better goal difference. You are right though, we did blow an 8 point lead in April 2012, but then the two sides were reasonably even (although they did beat us twice that season including the 1-6 humiliation). Today, we are not even. We are not even close to being even, so there’s far less chance of us hauling them in, not because they are infallible, but because we are highly unlikely to win every game between now and the end of the season, which is what it’s going to take.We were eight points ahead in April 2012. Bigger leads have been blown. We just need to keep in touch with City. Nobody is saying its sure thing. However, if we are still in touch with them when their fixtures start to pile up we have a chance. City have to play the League Cup final, they're still in the FA Cup, still in the Champions League and still need to find time to play the league match they missed. That's a lot of football to cram into an already condensed season. Their squad is holding up well right now. There's a chance it'll run out of gas by May though. If it does we just need to be within touching distance. If we keep dropping points I'll accept we're out of it. However, there's still a lot of football to play.
City have already won the league. What is remotely weird about my take on that?Such a weird take, in my opinion. Why would we aim to finish strongly in second ? How about we aim to win the title?
Our aim should always been to win the league. Not when we are ready. Now. This season. Every season. I don't think we will win the league, but we are in a race and should act as such. If we aim to win it and finish strong second, we'll all know it is progress anyway. Why would you basically give up on the title already?
This is why it’s so important we change how we play. Díaz in our system would not get the plaudits he does at City, just look at how we all viewed Gundogan in a deeper role before the Silva spot freed up. Watching the game last night it’s so clear when City defend they form a dense block of 11 behind the ball and try to force the ball wide, their CBs get so much protection.Their attack is about to get better with KDB and Aguero's return.
So for their title bid to fall apart their defence would have to absolutely collapse upon itself, which seems extremely unlikely.
It's not just that they're keeping clean sheets, their underlying stats are remarkable too. They could get quite a bit worse defensively and still be better than us and Leicester in that regard.
As for injuries disrupting them, I struggle to see that too. Even if their CBs were to get injured, they have Laporte to come in who was arguably percieved as the best of their CBs before the season started. Hell they were without their most important defender yesterday and looked rock solid.
And it's quite clear that their defensive performance has been down to coaching as much or more than it is down to the individual players. You don't prevent chances to that degree just by having good defenders.
Well, I can only respond to what you actually wrote, which is what I did. You said we should aim to finish second and you say City have already won the league. I don't agree with those two statements. You are probably right on both counts, but to me saying it the way you did is like saying your opponent is winning two nil, so may as well call the match over.City have already won the league. What is remotely weird about my take on that?
We should aim to win every single football match; I don’t think that really needs saying. It’s clear that my point was a lot more nuanced than the way in which you have replied to it.
I don't really believe in "seeing" progress. For every one person who believes we've improved there will be at least one more person who believes they're seeing nothing at all and Ole needs to be sacked.
You either prove your improvement by winning trophies or prove it using points, no other way about it.
You don’t agree but I am probably right? Why don’t we go the whole hog and just agree with the overwhelming reality that the league is over and we should tie up second, play some good football, win a cup, and call it progress?Well, I can only respond to what you actually wrote, which is what I did. You said we should aim to finish second and you say City have already won the league. I don't agree with those two statements. You are probably right on both counts, but to me saying it the way you did is like saying your opponent is winning two nil, so may as well call the match over.
Are we a good team on bad form?
Or are we a bad team on good form?
Just to back this point up: taking a quick look at the last four seasons, the only team to have a better xG conceded stat after 24 gameweeks than this City side is the City side from 17/18. And not conceding many goals has pretty much always been a feature of Guardiola's sides. I think (though I might be wrong) he had the best defence for his four seasons at Barca, his three at Bayern and (including this season) three of his seasons at City?This is why it’s so important we change how we play. Díaz in our system would not get the plaudits he does at City, just look at how we all viewed Gundogan in a deeper role before the Silva spot freed up. Watching the game last night it’s so clear when City defend they form a dense block of 11 behind the ball and try to force the ball wide, their CBs get so much protection.
City’s xGA and xG is so good because of coaching and how they mitigate risk in games and avoid inviting pressure. Look at how many times we have gone behind in games, changed our system to a more offensive one and then come back to win points. City almost never concede first and ironically they are way more attacking than us.
We have the squad depth and quality to be a lot better in possession and manage games - we don’t need to be going through a whole season living on the edge of our seats and scoring through games with last minute goals. We should have managed that Everton game when two up but we kept giving them the ball and we paid the price.
Yes I don't agree with the statements you made.You don’t agree but I am probably right? Why don’t we go the whole hog and just agree with the overwhelming reality that the league is over and we should tie up second, play some good football, win a cup, and call it progress?
When an opponent is winning 2-0 the game is usually over. I’m all for a bit of a belief but I’m also a realist. This City side are a juggernaut at the moment and we aren’t in a position to compete.
It will always be a missed opportunity when our nearest rivals more or less have capitulated since the start of the season with only City have picking up their form. If we had of played more bravely against a depleted Liverpool side, an unadventurous Chelsea side and a shite Arsenal side we'd still be sitting on top of the league or a lot closer to it. If we had of showed up against the bottom of the league team and kept our concentration against Everton and Leicester then we'd have a healthy 2 or 3 points advantage over City.Now you understand why it was never missed opportunity. You thought Man City’s form is like 15/16 Leicester, not even closed. You are forgetting the quality they have brought in into their squad with tons of money.
That isnt a missed opportunity, thats having a fantastic, title winning season that would win the title 99 percent of the time.It will always be a missed opportunity when our nearest rivals more or less have capitulated since the start of the season with only City have picking up their form. If we had of played more bravely against a depleted Liverpool side, an unadventurous Chelsea side and a shite Arsenal side we'd still be sitting on top of the league or a lot closer to it. If we had of showed up against the bottom of the league team and kept our concentration against Everton and Leicester then we'd have a healthy 2 or 3 points advantage over City.
We're not top of the league because of mistakes we've made. Not because we aren't good enough.
On a side note. You make it sound like Leicester were having a season similar to our current one when they won the league. I don't think it could be further than the truth. Leicester by far played the best football in the league that year and fully deserved the title.
I don't agree. We've dropped our fair share of points which wouldn't win us the title 99% of the time. We wouldn't of had to play magnificent football to get more points playing the top 6 with the form they were in. If we had of been a little more adventurous City wouldn't be sitting 8 points clear of us. That's on us. Teams of course can have off days but what has stopped us having a decent shout at the title was our result against bottom team SU. Once again that's on us.That isnt a missed opportunity, thats having a fantastic, title winning season that would win the title 99 percent of the time.
That bold marks is the reason why it is not missing opportunity because you can't ignore Man City's form from the topic here. Winning 11 league matches in a row is not something any teams can do it and not just winning but only conceded few goals. That shows the quality of their whole squad since Pep invested 900m on the squad which Aguero, KDB, Sterling are not part of the 900m as they were signed before Pep came. The fact that this season on 23 games Man City is only 3 points away compare to the 18/19 season shows you that this Man City is capable to achieve even 90 points. This Man City team is much much better than 15/16 Leicester who only won the league with 81 points.It will always be a missed opportunity when our nearest rivals more or less have capitulated since the start of the season with only City have picking up their form. If we had of played more bravely against a depleted Liverpool side, an unadventurous Chelsea side and a shite Arsenal side we'd still be sitting on top of the league or a lot closer to it. If we had of showed up against the bottom of the league team and kept our concentration against Everton and Leicester then we'd have a healthy 2 or 3 points advantage over City.
We're not top of the league because of mistakes we've made. Not because we aren't good enough.
On a side note. You make it sound like Leicester were having a season similar to our current one when they won the league. I don't think it could be further than the truth. Leicester by far played the best football in the league that year and fully deserved the title.
We’re going around in circles. It’s pretty clear that I’m not suggesting we don’t try and win every single game and inevitably finish first. It’s also statistically obvious that City can still slip up. So let’s not pretend that this is my approach to the discussion.Yes I don't agree with the statements you made.
City have won the league - no they haven't.
We should aim to finish second - no we shouldn't.
I'm saying I don't agree with those statements. Not that they won't happen. Just in the defeatist way you are describing it. Maybe I'm not explaining it well but it makes sense in my head haha
I do agree Citys form is bordering on scary but my argument is it's not because they're so much better than us that they're 8 points ahead but more because of our own doing. Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal were all there for the taking but we chose to be more conservative but if we want to win titles we need to learn from these types of games. Playing not to lose instead of playing to win will not win us PLtitles.That bold marks is the reason why it is not missing opportunity because you can't ignore Man City's form from the topic here. Winning 11 league matches in a row is not something any teams can do it and not just winning but only conceded few goals. That shows the quality of their whole squad since Pep invested 900m on the squad which Aguero, KDB, Sterling are not part of the 900m as they were signed before Pep came. The fact that this season on 23 games Man City is only 3 points away compare to the 18/19 season shows you that this Man City is capable to achieve even 90 points. This Man City team is much much better than 15/16 Leicester who only won the league with 81 points.
I mean, we are pretty much on the same page to be honest. I just think I have a bit more (probably naive) belief. I always think there is a chance and I think if the players feel that way too, then you never know...We’re going around in circles. It’s pretty clear that I’m not suggesting we don’t try and win every single game and inevitably finish first. It’s also statistically obvious that City can still slip up. So let’s not pretend that this is my approach to the discussion.
Where we clearly disagree is that your measure of ‘defeatist’ is different to mine. I think I’m just being realistic given the current state of things. You expect a bit more from us it seems? I really don’t think we’re good enough yet. And I’m ok with that (for now) because I can see what Ole is trying to do with the squad.
It's highly unlikely that our first XI is going to be playing in the Europa League. Whereas City will be going all out in the Champions League. The mileage may rack up in their legs. I ain't saying it's a sure thing. Just that we need to do our part to be close in case they Devon Loch.We’re still in the FA Cup, we’re in the Europa League and by Wednesday, City will have played that game in hand and will be at least 5 points clear of us with a better goal difference. You are right though, we did blow an 8 point lead in April 2012, but then the two sides were reasonably even (although they did beat us twice that season including the 1-6 humiliation). Today, we are not even. We are not even close to being even, so there’s far less chance of us hauling them in, not because they are infallible, but because we are highly unlikely to win every game between now and the end of the season, which is what it’s going to take.
Regression to the mean. they call it in statistics.Agree, we will see if they get transfer targets in summer. My feeling is they get 1 transfer target. Who? CB or Sancho. I hope they get at least 2 or 3. But as you mention quality irrelevant, as long as UCL is achieved.
That's a bit of delusion tbh. We lost vs Burnley at home, there is not a single fixture where we could be sure of winning in the PLThe negativity in this thread in particular is next level sh*t!!
We are in a title race, whether you want to argue one way or another, is irrelevant.
Will we win the league?? I doubt it.
Could we win the league? Definitely.
IF we win tomorrow, we are 5 points behind and with the fixtures we have should remain 5 points behind until we play city i a few weeks.
IF we then beat city........
Ignore my earlier reply mate, you're right. City have won the league.... let's aim for 2nd.We’re going around in circles. It’s pretty clear that I’m not suggesting we don’t try and win every single game and inevitably finish first. It’s also statistically obvious that City can still slip up. So let’s not pretend that this is my approach to the discussion.
Where we clearly disagree is that your measure of ‘defeatist’ is different to mine. I think I’m just being realistic given the current state of things. You expect a bit more from us it seems? I really don’t think we’re good enough yet. And I’m ok with that (for now) because I can see what Ole is trying to do with the squad.
Not sure what is delusional about anything I’ve said.That's a bit of delusion tbh. We lost vs Burnley at home, there is not a single fixture where we could be sure of winning in the PL