Odds or Evens: Odds Edition 2023/24 | The winner(s) have been announced.

Bogga

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I picked him (Höjlund) thinking he'd get 17... I'll just go with whatever rule/solution is accepted with every other competitor
 

V.O.

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Most of the situations are straightforward as it explicitly says in the OP the rules. Garnacho and Højlund is a bit more complex... thoughts on what should be done? Options:
  1. Tough shit.
  2. Free switch out a la Maddison.
  3. Have to use injury sub if you've got it but ONLY on Garnacho/Højlund.
  4. If you've picked one of them and there's a clash then you get the other player, so if you picked Højlund you get Garnacho and vice versa.
  5. Something else (open to suggestions).
As somebody with Hojlund, I think "tough shit" would have been fair enough, if it wasn't for folks already being given a free hit at a similar speculative number with the Maddison one.

A free switch out wouldn't quite be fair because the Maddison people (I think) had to declare who their backup was beforehand, so a free switch to whoever we want now would be more than what they had. Maybe on balance just being given the other one is the fairest (option 4), as you're given some compensation, but not able to just have a free choice for your own gamble not paying off.
 

Swarm

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I'm also in the boat of a solution somewhere between "Tough shit" and "Free switch". If solution 4 solves it for all involved I think that would be a pretty fair middle ground. You might even throw in the option to use the injury sub if someone absolutely does not want Höjlund/Garnacho.
 

AnotherLondonManc

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When the competition was created, it was evisaged that you pick the player and not the shirt number. Then after it is seen that they meet the club and number criteria.

With the Maddison situation, those who picked him at the time also picked the alternate picks before the season properly started. The Højlund situation was at the time seen that you're taking a risk picking the player who hasn't got a squad number at all, but everyone safely assumed he was going to get the 17 shirt based on his previous club. Instead we've got doubly fecked with Garnacho going to 17 too.

Here's the current situation with various players:
  • Garnacho (17/Man Utd) - changed from 49, some of the clashes are fine as De Bruyne is injured and injury sub has been used to fix that. Someone picked Toney too but that is fine as Toney can't play so Garnacho pick stands. Someone picked Iwobi as well (also #17) but he changed to Fulham and new number hasn't been confirmed so could be fine.
  • Iwobi (??/Fulham) - new number not confirmed, changed from Everton. As explained above could be okay if number doesn't stay as 17.
  • Højlund (11/Man Utd) - the grand clusterfeck. Everyone who picked him envisaged he would be #17. Clashes are numbers with Martinelli or Watkins.
  • Maupay (7/Brentford) - I know, I'm amazed anyone picked him too. Number clashes with #7 Diaz at Liverpool.
  • Mitrovic - gone to Saudi.
  • Nunes (27/Man City) - same club for DJ_21 as Foden. Injury sub already used.
  • Reguilon (15/Man Utd) - see special section below.
  • Toney (17/Brentford) - picked by two players, obviously can't play until the new year (once this contest ends) due to his ban
Alvaro Maestre (special section for just this one participant)
  • Højlund (11/Man Utd) - same number as Martinelli.
  • Mitrovic - gone to Saudi.
  • Reguilon (15/Man Utd) - picked by Alvaro Maestre when he was at Spurs, currently now at United with Højlund so invalid - and this is explicitly in the OP:


Most of the situations are straightforward as it explicitly says in the OP the rules. Garnacho and Højlund is a bit more complex... thoughts on what should be done? Options:
  1. Tough shit.
  2. Free switch out a la Maddison.
  3. Have to use injury sub if you've got it but ONLY on Garnacho/Højlund.
  4. If you've picked one of them and there's a clash then you get the other player, so if you picked Højlund you get Garnacho and vice versa.
  5. Something else (open to suggestions).
Tough shit. We all knew the risks.
 

Damien

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As somebody with Hojlund, I think "tough shit" would have been fair enough, if it wasn't for folks already being given a free hit at a similar speculative number with the Maddison one.

A free switch out wouldn't quite be fair because the Maddison people (I think) had to declare who their backup was beforehand, so a free switch to whoever we want now would be more than what they had. Maybe on balance just being given the other one is the fairest (option 4), as you're given some compensation, but not able to just have a free choice for your own gamble not paying off.
Yeah the Maddison situation is complicated given he had already been given a number (71) and the pickers chose an alternative before the season begun with no insight on player form etc - like Awoniyi had just the one picker before the season began, having a free switch now would likely result in loads more picking a player like him who wouldn't have beforehand.

The Maddison pickers all had a feeling that there was a chance he would change to 10 when Kane went and received assurances that if it did happen they could change with the pick in advance.

Tough shit. We all knew the risks.
Our discussion of your pick of Mubama in the convo comes to mind as well. Told you you'd lose a spot if he ended up changing number and you stuck.
 

awop

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I also vote for "tough shit", i had Holjund in my pre-list but without a number announced i adapted and moved things around.
 

altodevil

Odds winner of 'Odds or Evens 2023/2024'
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It's a clear tough shit situation. You picked a player for a number. If they get a different number, and you already have that number elsewhere, they are ineligible.

You could go one further and make both players with the same number ineligible.
 

Maluco

Last Man Standing 3 champion 2019/20
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As soon as Hojlund picks up a knock, we can use our substitute on him, according to the rules.

So we can just wait for that to happen and sub him out.

Tough shit to those who didn’t consider how they could take the gamble and have an out using the sub rule.
 

antohan

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@Damien I picked Hojlund #17 or else Garnacho #49, so I guess I get Garnacho #17?

He didn't score anyway :(
 

Damien

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For complete transparency all views have been taken into account and will be discussed with my advisory board (@RedSky and @The Stain - neither are in the game itself and are objective) what the rules are and how this turn of events fits with the rules.

Verdict will be administered tomorrow, sorry to whoever feels hardly done by whatever the verdict may be. We didn't have this issue at all last season and I'm hopeful this circumstance will be a unique occurence - if it isn't, then as a result of this at least for future seasons things will be clearer.

Hope you all have a good rest of the day.
 

Melville Red

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Yeah the Maddison situation is complicated given he had already been given a number (71) and the pickers chose an alternative before the season begun with no insight on player form etc - like Awoniyi had just the one picker before the season began, having a free switch now would likely result in loads more picking a player like him who wouldn't have beforehand.

The Maddison pickers all had a feeling that there was a chance he would change to 10 when Kane went and received assurances that if it did happen they could change with the pick in advance.


Our discussion of your pick of Mubama in the convo comes to mind as well. Told you you'd lose a spot if he ended up changing number and you stuck.
It’s very confusing, however at the end of the day it’s only a bit of fun :lol:
 

Scriblerus

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Is this thing cursed? So far i've had issues with picks for Maddison, de Bruyne, Mitrovic and Garnacho (thankfully not a clash)....so if anyone has any of my other picks (Jackson, Watkins, Mbuemo, Saka) I'd advise you to be very afraid.
 

Damien

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Sorry for not delivering the verdict yesterday, phone is completely fecked so been trying unsuccessfully to sort it.

A couple of people did submit alternate picks to Hojlund at the time (for the 'slim' (we thought) chance that he wasn't going to be given the #11 shirt). Unfortunately most didn't pick an alternate and don't think any of us thought that it would be after four games when the number situation would become clear...

Anyway, I profusely apologise but the situation with Hojlund and Garnacho is that if there's a number clash they won't be counted and this applies to the two who picked alternates too. I know at the time I said there would be leeway for Hojlund similar to Maddison in convos, and some would have gone for different picks entirely if they knew there'd be this risk but the number being announced after four games has made it impossible for that same leeway to be applied.

The last two competitions we had zero issues with numbers changing, especially at this scale. There's a chance this window could have been a unique situation but right now we are thinking it best that for future competitions the deadline for entries (and the start of the competition itself) will be after the British transfer window closes, so Evens Edition will start at end of January. I'm not too keen on this as I feel (for Odds Editions anyway) it'll pretty much eliminate 'unique' picks such as Awoniyi as people will coalesce around picking the players in good goal scoring form. If this season's started now instead of a month ago, Awoniyi would likely have got 30+ picks. Thoughts on this would be appreciated.

Again, I'm sorry about the numbers situation. Will update the players and the table later in the week.
 

AnotherLondonManc

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Sorry for not delivering the verdict yesterday, phone is completely fecked so been trying unsuccessfully to sort it.

A couple of people did submit alternate picks to Hojlund at the time (for the 'slim' (we thought) chance that he wasn't going to be given the #11 shirt). Unfortunately most didn't pick an alternate and don't think any of us thought that it would be after four games when the number situation would become clear...

Anyway, I profusely apologise but the situation with Hojlund and Garnacho is that if there's a number clash they won't be counted and this applies to the two who picked alternates too. I know at the time I said there would be leeway for Hojlund similar to Maddison in convos, and some would have gone for different picks entirely if they knew there'd be this risk but the number being announced after four games has made it impossible for that same leeway to be applied.

The last two competitions we had zero issues with numbers changing, especially at this scale. There's a chance this window could have been a unique situation but right now we are thinking it best that for future competitions the deadline for entries (and the start of the competition itself) will be after the British transfer window closes, so Evens Edition will start at end of January. I'm not too keen on this as I feel (for Odds Editions anyway) it'll pretty much eliminate 'unique' picks such as Awoniyi as people will coalesce around picking the players in good goal scoring form. If this season's started now instead of a month ago, Awoniyi would likely have got 30+ picks. Thoughts on this would be appreciated.

Again, I'm sorry about the numbers situation. Will update the players and the table later in the week.
Looked to me to be the fairest solution. However, moving forward I don't think it's necessary to start the competition until after the transfer window.

Players without an official number assigned should simply be banned. As you said, its not a common occurance anyhow.

Subs for injuries and transfers should still be allowed.
 

Swarm

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I also don't think the start of the competition should be moved, takes a whole lot of the fun out of it imo. I think it should simply made clear that gambles on number changes and such will be possible but that bad luck will always be "Tough shit".
 

Melville Red

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Just had a ruling about one of my star players going to Saudi and not being able to replace. Made a note in diary..Bugger.

Why the Saudi lot wanted him I don’t know, useless twat wasn’t even getting picked, oh well it’s just a bit of fun :lol:
 
Rankings after MD04

Damien

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Again, apologies to everyone for the absolute trainwreck this competition has turned into (and even moreso with today's Antony news).

The following players scored during MD04 (lists on at the time in brackets):
  • 3 goals by Heung-min Son (12)
  • 1 goal by Julian Alvarez (11)
  • 1 goal by Anthony Elanga (6)
  • 1 goal by Bryan Mbeumo (25)
  • 1 goal by Callum Wilson (17)
Rankings after MD04

RankUsernameGoalsMD04 Scorers
1​
GregM40​
11​
Mbeumo, Son​
2​
altodevil​
10​
Mbeumo, Son​
=​
Awla​
10​
Mbeumo​
=​
Bogga​
10​
Mbeumo, Wilson​
=​
Clas Sified​
10​
Mbeumo, Wilson​
=​
DJ_21​
10​
Mbeumo​
=​
Herculean​
10​
Mbeumo, Son​
=​
IRN-BRUno​
10​
Mbeumo​
=​
K Stand Knut​
10​
Mbeumo, Wilson​
=​
Maluco​
10​
Mbeumo, Wilson​
=​
P-Nut​
10​
Mbeumo, Wilson​
=​
RiqCantona​
10​
Mbeumo​
=​
RonaldoVII​
10​
Mbeumo​
=​
Ted1985​
10​
Mbeumo​
15​
Amsterdam Devil​
9​
Mbeumo​
=​
Angel001​
9​
Mbeumo​
=​
DanNistelrooy​
9​
Mbeumo​
=​
Fanatic 00237​
9​
Alvarez, Elanga, Wilson​
=​
Gator Nate​
9​
Mbeumo, Wilson​
=​
Glow​
9​
Mbeumo, Wilson​
=​
kaku06​
9​
Son​
=​
ScholesyTheWise​
9​
Alvarez​
=​
Swarm​
9​
Mbeumo, Wilson​
=​
zaafi​
9​
Mbeumo, Wilson​
25​
Annihilate Now!​
8​
Alvarez​
=​
DarnleyDevil7​
8​
Alvarez​
=​
Markolan​
8​
Mbeumo​
=​
Paul the Wolf​
8​
Alvarez​
=​
SirAnderson​
8​
Alvarez, Son, Wilson​
=​
Svartzonker​
8​
Wilson​
=​
V.O.​
8​
Mbeumo​
=​
Widow​
8​
Alvarez, Son​
=​
Wilt​
8​
Alvarez​
34​
AnotherLondonManc​
7​
Mbeumo​
=​
Big-Red​
7​
Elanga, Son, Wilson​
=​
Jeffchin​
7​
Alvarez​
=​
Melville Red​
7​
Elanga, Son​
=​
OleTheGreat​
7​
Son​
=​
sallycinnamin​
7​
Alvarez, Wilson​
=​
Samid​
7​
Son​
=​
Scriblerus​
7​
Mbeumo​
=​
Sky Blue Red​
7​
Elanga, Son​
=​
Stevondo8​
7​
44​
Lemoor​
6​
=​
PRabbit​
6​
Elanga​
=​
whitbyviking​
6​
Son​
47​
Alvaro Maestre​
5​
Alvarez​
=​
antohan​
5​
Wilson​
=​
awop​
5​
=​
Puskas_007​
5​
=​
Red in STL​
5​
Wilson​
52​
.Phil1968​
4​
Elanga, Wilson​
=​
brian017​
4​
=​
Wing Attack Plan R​
4​
 

Swarm

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So if a player is injured on the pitch you get to sub him off, what happens if a player gets accused of domestic abuse on the pitch? :wenger:
 

Damien

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I now only appear to have seven players without infringing any of the 3 rules , some have even less - but others have been able to have up to 9.
The 9 is actually 8 as players with Inj1 at the end don't have their stats recorded after that turn so people use their injury sub.

You, like with all of the other Hojlund pickers had a clash with another player following him taking the #11 shirt instead of #17. I know you picked an alternative and I'm sorry, but covered the situation here. Ones with six had Iwobi/Mitrovic/Nunes (player clash - 2 from City)/Toney so as they're all ineligible for various reasons I removed them for simplicity.
So if a player is injured on the pitch you get to sub him off, what happens if a player gets accused of domestic abuse on the pitch? :wenger:
Funnily enough I never considered that.
 

Paul the Wolf

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The 9 is actually 8 as players with Inj1 at the end don't have their stats recorded after that turn so people use their injury sub.

You, like with all of the other Hojlund pickers had a clash with another player following him taking the #11 shirt instead of #17. I know you picked an alternative and I'm sorry, but covered the situation here. Ones with six had Iwobi/Mitrovic/Nunes (player clash - 2 from City)/Toney so as they're all ineligible for various reasons I removed them for simplicity.

Funnily enough I never considered that.
My eighth player has vanished totally and become invisible so theoretically he could be injured and I could replace him with someone who has a full body.:)

As at least half the participants are handicapped for whatever reason, as we're in the middle of an international break and finally the transfer window's are coming to end, Turkey still to go?
Maintain the scores and let those, who through no fault of their own lost players , have eight players to keep everyone's interest up to Xmas.

It's only a game but it would be nice to have an interest.
 
Last edited:

Damien

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Making the call that people can use their injury sub on players who are long term absentees like Antony and Sancho. If anyone who hasn't used their injury sub on either of them wants to do so, it'll count for this weekend's fixtures.

Injury/absentee subs:
  1. @sallycinnamin has decided to swap Obafemi out for Jackson - that is their injury sub for the contest used.
  2. @Samid has decided to swap Antony out for Garnacho - that is their injury sub for the contest used.
  3. @Wilt has decided to swap Sancho out for Fati - that is their injury sub for the contest used.
 

Alvaro Maestre

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When the competition was created, it was evisaged that you pick the player and not the shirt number. Then after it is seen that they meet the club and number criteria.

With the Maddison situation, those who picked him at the time also picked the alternate picks before the season properly started. The Højlund situation was at the time seen that you're taking a risk picking the player who hasn't got a squad number at all, but everyone safely assumed he was going to get the 17 shirt based on his previous club. Instead we've got doubly fecked with Garnacho going to 17 too.

Here's the current situation with various players:
  • Garnacho (17/Man Utd) - changed from 49, some of the clashes are fine as De Bruyne is injured and injury sub has been used to fix that. Someone picked Toney too but that is fine as Toney can't play so Garnacho pick stands. Someone picked Iwobi as well (also #17) but he changed to Fulham and new number hasn't been confirmed so could be fine.
  • Iwobi (??/Fulham) - new number not confirmed, changed from Everton. As explained above could be okay if number doesn't stay as 17.
  • Højlund (11/Man Utd) - the grand clusterfeck. Everyone who picked him envisaged he would be #17. Clashes are numbers with Martinelli or Watkins.
  • Maupay (7/Brentford) - I know, I'm amazed anyone picked him too. Number clashes with #7 Diaz at Liverpool.
  • Mitrovic - gone to Saudi.
  • Nunes (27/Man City) - same club for DJ_21 as Foden. Injury sub already used.
  • Reguilon (15/Man Utd) - see special section below.
  • Toney (17/Brentford) - picked by two players, obviously can't play until the new year (once this contest ends) due to his ban
Alvaro Maestre (special section for just this one participant)
  • Højlund (11/Man Utd) - same number as Martinelli.
  • Mitrovic - gone to Saudi.
  • Reguilon (15/Man Utd) - picked by Alvaro Maestre when he was at Spurs, currently now at United with Højlund so invalid - and this is explicitly in the OP:


Most of the situations are straightforward as it explicitly says in the OP the rules. Garnacho and Højlund is a bit more complex... thoughts on what should be done? Options:
  1. Tough shit.
  2. Free switch out a la Maddison.
  3. Have to use injury sub if you've got it but ONLY on Garnacho/Højlund.
  4. If you've picked one of them and there's a clash then you get the other player, so if you picked Højlund you get Garnacho and vice versa.
  5. Something else (open to suggestions).
Good lord, I got my own section. I would go with option #1.
 

Swarm

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I'll swap Antony out for Kulusevski @Damien. Will of course not count for this week. Cheers!
 

antohan

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Anyway, I profusely apologise but the situation with Hojlund and Garnacho is that if there's a number clash they won't be counted and this applies to the two who picked alternates too.
@Damien, I'm not sure I get this.

I had Hojlund as #17 and Garnacho #49 as the fallback if Hojlund's number clashed.

Hojlund now clashes, so it would be Garnacho, whose number has changed to 17 (which doesn't clash as Hojlund is gone for me).

I gather it's not an automatic swap as not everyone entered an alt option, but can I not use up my sub and get Garnacho at #17? Essentially Hojlund #17 is as unavailable to me as Antony for others and Antony isn't even injured either.

Edit: or Sancho, in what planet is him being a tit the equivalent of "injured"? :lol:
 
Last edited:

Damien

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@Damien, I'm not sure I get this.

I had Hojlund as #17 and Garnacho #49 as the fallback if Hojlund's number clashed.

Hojlund now clashes, so it would be Garnacho, whose number has changed to 17 (which doesn't clash as Hojlund is gone for me).

I gather it's not an automatic swap as not everyone entered an alt option, but can I not use up my sub and get Garnacho at #17? Essentially Hojlund #17 is as unavailable to me as Antony for others and Antony isn't even injured either.

Edit: or Sancho, in what planet is him being a tit the equivalent of "injured"? :lol:
Yeah the injury sub was changed to include long term absentees - @Samid and @Wilt messaged me on the eve of the last weekend's fixtures with the sub, decided to have a bit of leniency as everything has gone to shit, and couldn't really say subbing Antony is fine but subbing Sancho isn't... yeah it's a mess.
Making the call that people can use their injury sub on players who are long term absentees like Antony and Sancho. If anyone who hasn't used their injury sub on either of them wants to do so they can.
You're right on the Hojlund/Garnacho thing. Not everyone entered an alt option and hard thing about allowing using the sub in the numbers case is that there are some people who picked, say, Hojlund and De Bruyne and used their sub on De Bruyne so allowing everyone to use their sub on Hojlund would mean those who used it on De Bruyne are out of luck and wouldn't be fair on them. There's no ideal solution really - all I know is for future games it'll definitely be please for the love of god don't pick a player without a number and if you do, on your head be it if they pick a number that is already taken.
 
Rankings after MD05

Damien

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The following players scored during MD05 (lists on at the time in brackets):
  • 1 goal by Zeki Amdouni (5)
  • 1 goal by Leon Bailey (3)
  • 1 goal by Pascal Groß (16)
  • 1 goal by Dejan Kulusevski (15)
  • 1 goal by Joao Pedro (3)
  • 1 goal by Richarlison (2)
  • 1 goal by Leandro Trossard (4)
  • 1 goal by Callum Wilson (17)
Rankings after MD05

RankUsernameGoalsMD05 Scorers
1Clas Sified13Amdouni, Groß, Wilson
=GregM4013Bailey, Groß
3Bogga12Groß, Wilson
=K Stand Knut12Kulusevski, Wilson
=Maluco12Kulusevski, Wilson
=P-Nut12Kulusevski, Wilson
7Angel00111Kulusevski, Pedro
=Awla11Kulusevski
=Fanatic 0023711Groß, Wilson
=Gator Nate11Groß, Wilson
=IRN-BRUno11GroßSub2
=RiqCantona11Groß
=RonaldoVII11Groß
=ScholesyTheWise11Bailey, Kulusevski
=Ted198511Groß
=zaafi11Amdouni, Wilson
17altodevil10
=DanNistelrooy10Amdouni
=DJ_2110
=Glow10Wilson
=Herculean10
=kaku0610Groß
=SirAnderson10Groß, Wilson
=Svartzonker10Groß, Wilson
=Swarm10Wilson
=V.O.10Amdouni, Pedro
27Amsterdam Devil9
=Annihilate Now!9Kulusevski
=Big-Red9Trossard, Wilson
=DarnleyDevil79Kulusevski
=Markolan9Kulusevski
=Paul the Wolf9Kulusevski
=sallycinnamin9Kulusevski, Wilson
=Samid9Groß, Trossard
=Stevondo89Groß, Kulusevski
=Wilt9Kulusevski
37AnotherLondonManc8Richarlison
=antohan8Amdouni, Trossard, Wilson
=Jeffchin8Kulusevski
=OleTheGreat8Bailey
=Sky Blue Red8Trossard
=Widow8
43Lemoor7Kulusevski
=Melville Red7
=Red in STL7Groß, Wilson
=Scriblerus7
47Alvaro Maestre6Groß
=awop6Richarlison
=PRabbit6
=whitbyviking6
51.Phil19685Wilson
=brian0175Pedro
=Puskas_0075
=Wing Attack Plan R5Groß
 

antohan

gets aroused by tagline boobs
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
42,244
Location
Montevideo
Yeah the injury sub was changed to include long term absentees - @Samid and @Wilt messaged me on the eve of the last weekend's fixtures with the sub, decided to have a bit of leniency as everything has gone to shit, and couldn't really say subbing Antony is fine but subbing Sancho isn't... yeah it's a mess.


You're right on the Hojlund/Garnacho thing. Not everyone entered an alt option and hard thing about allowing using the sub in the numbers case is that there are some people who picked, say, Hojlund and De Bruyne and used their sub on De Bruyne so allowing everyone to use their sub on Hojlund would mean those who used it on De Bruyne are out of luck and wouldn't be fair on them. There's no ideal solution really - all I know is for future games it'll definitely be please for the love of god don't pick a player without a number and if you do, on your head be it if they pick a number that is already taken.
Well, I'm 37th so it makes no difference, but I simply don't get why people who picked Antony and Sancho can use a sub and still have a full team and I can't because Hojlund changed his number and I want the guy who got the exact same number instead.

Moreover, I have no idea what de Bruyne has to do with it as anyone who picked him clearly didn't gamble on Hojlund at #17 instead so those people (rightly) used their sub on an injured player so should be equally affected by Antony/Sancho getting subbed rather than being as useless as (whatever that Liverpool player's name was) for me when he didn't start a single game in the evens.

I reserved #17 for a United player at the expense of picking the City one so surely I should be able to use it on the United player that ultimately got it?
 

Paul the Wolf

Score Predictions Competition Organiser
Joined
Apr 17, 2014
Messages
18,103
Location
France - can't win anything with Swedish turnips
I'd like to have a Man Utd player in my team too. Suggested 3 - one left - three others are now out including Greenwood. So all the other selections were based around what I could or could not choose. It's a bit like VAR - under no circumstances United players will get the benefit of the doubt
 

Bogga

Full Member
Joined
May 23, 2011
Messages
1,821
Location
Sweden
Just 1 points behind the leaders despite having one player less... didn't think I'd to this well :)