It's pathetic. Especially that Rojo one. They should have snapped their hands off. What in gods name do they think Rojo is work. He's not VVD for goodness sake.
Ole and the club recruitment policy
- Thread starter reelworld
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Ole's five signings - Maguire, Wan Bissaka, James - shit; Bruno - good, VDB - TBA.
I don't believe for a second someone offered £25m for Rojo.
I think this is the case for all our signings and no more our defenders than our midfielders and attackers. Obviously we spent £125 million or something last summer on defenders so they are in recent memory... But we don't seem to spend our money on taking educated chances on players very often. We seem to go for players who have a big reputation and price tag already...
The one exception you might suggest is Dan James last summer. But is £20 million for a winger from the championship really taking a chance on a player who might be good, or is it signing what we thought was one of the better wingers from the league who we believed without a doubt would be premier league level? Taking someone for £10 million would have been the gamble, for £20 million we should be getting a guarantee from the championship.
We have obviously paid for Hannibal longterm so we do it with our youth team players. But ones who might be ready to challenge the first team we dont do it. And we should do it, we have lots of money for that.
So just as an example, I'd like us to spend maybe 30 million on players in the £5-10 million price range each summer. Get them in let them try and challenge for places and then take stock in the summer. Some wont make it, others will. The ones that dont and dont look like they might in one more season we can move them on.
The one exception you might suggest is Dan James last summer. But is £20 million for a winger from the championship really taking a chance on a player who might be good, or is it signing what we thought was one of the better wingers from the league who we believed without a doubt would be premier league level? Taking someone for £10 million would have been the gamble, for £20 million we should be getting a guarantee from the championship.
We have obviously paid for Hannibal longterm so we do it with our youth team players. But ones who might be ready to challenge the first team we dont do it. And we should do it, we have lots of money for that.
So just as an example, I'd like us to spend maybe 30 million on players in the £5-10 million price range each summer. Get them in let them try and challenge for places and then take stock in the summer. Some wont make it, others will. The ones that dont and dont look like they might in one more season we can move them on.
And then the Darmian one where we turned down a lowball offer from Inter or Juve only to sell him for much less a season or so later.
It might not have been a £25m offer hence I said reportedly but the fact still remains that we had an offer for Rojo late in the window and it was vetoed on account of not wanting to strengthen a rival.
Everton quite often used to do us a favour. Carlo won't let that happen now.
It is a bit scary that they thought Everton were a rival at that time. Do they not realise that the big fees are between PL clubs. If they were wanting to send him abroad you have no chance getting that kind of money.
Plus just get rid, these players are a drain on the wage bill. How much have we paid Phil Jones since he became a true sick note around 2016? Easily £15m to £20m all gone down the drain because he just isn't ever fit to play a significant role or grow as a player.
It is the obsession with getting big fees, get any fee and as you say free up the wages.
We had the most clean sheets in europes top five leagues, with a terrible DDG losing us probably an extra 5-7.
Can't fight the stats here lads - Ole (and probably Mike Phelan) + our signings improved our defence a lot
Can't fight the stats here lads - Ole (and probably Mike Phelan) + our signings improved our defence a lot
The question shouldn't be about last season's improvement but more about whether the improvement is enough to take us where we want and need to be. Our performances in the semi finals last season say it's not and the standard set by this era's dominant teams say it's not.
Yes we had respectable defensive numbers but the defense's role isn't just about keeping goals out. Liverpool's back four also posts good numbers but their fullbacks also contribute to their attack, ours don't and we recently paid £50m for one.
Do you really see the Glazers sanctioning another major outlay on a RB in the next two or so summers after what we spent on AWB? Or do you see AWB improving sufficiently on his attacking game? Do you disagree that virtually all the top teams in the game today have better attacking fullbacks than what we get from AWB?
And the same applies to Mata who was given a 2 year contract end of last year but it appears Ole doesn't rate him.
We had the best defence in Europe last season off the back of signing both Maguire and AWB. There are no issues with either of those two signings and anybody thinking that we could have just kept Lindleof and got a different bloke than harry him is a fecking fool. He (lindleof) was diabolical yesterday and its doesn't matter who you put next to him, he'd have had a shocker.
City are the only other team to have a better defensive record than us last season.
I agree that if pool or city keep putting up 100 pt seasons then we aren't likely to win a title soon, not with unlimited money as city have. We probably just have to live with that. If they drop off I don't think it will be decided on whether AWB can cross or something ... Someone said he had the same open play assists as Trent last season , can't recall the exact wording, but even that stuff is overdone in my view.
Woodward is trying to be hard nosed like Levy in the transfer market aside from a few decent player sales it's failing miserably.
We've apparently been trying to sell Rojo for four years now. I don't know why just try to get a nominal fee and move him on.
Liverpool managed to up the game and wrestled the title from City, even with their money. Bayern won the CL beating a similarly rich PSG team.
It's not all about money even though it helps, it's about spending it on the right type of players and we certainly didn't because to take the next step we are going to have to upgrade on the likes of AWB, Maguire and Shaw. Lindelof is just hopeless.
Like someone said earlier in the thread:
Ole says he wants to play a high line with pressing yet he buys the slowest player around. Says he wants to build from the back then goes on to spend £50m on AWB. These two signings are just contrary to how the top teams in the modern era have been constructed and the amounts it cost to bring them in mean that we can't just easily move on from them.
Why did city want Maguire ? Because if that's true your argument falls apart
The same City who have also wasted over £200m on average CBs, they arent the gold standard when it comes to CBs. The difference is that they can afford to take the hit and move on whilst we are boxing with our hands tied behind our backs by the Glazers.
I have no problem with the club not wanting to pay that price for Sancho. What I can’t understand about the recruitment policy is that why haven’t we thought of contingency plans and acted on them. Surely that should have been thought of straight away.
Agreed on that front, they can make a 60m mistake and move on that very january. It's a very unlevel playing field for ole in that sense. But you must see my point - pep thought Maguire could play a high line very clearly, and if Maguire was 60 and not 80m he would be there right now.
Again, check their record with CBs. The same Pep also thoughg that John Stones was a £50m CB who could lead their defense to PL and CL titles, where is he now?
yep, so when did they decide they didnt really want to pay that price. What was the next step
The club knew they didn't want to pay the asking fee for Sancho, they just played along to justify doing nothing else in the window presumably because we were chasing our number one target.
The Sancho saga was actually used to keep us in the conversation online and buy time but they never intended to follow through with the signing.
This way they can spin that by the time it became clear that Dortmund weren't going to cave in it was already too late to launch moves for other players and the club has learnt from its mistakes in the past re panic buying. The Glazers get their dividends in this Corona economy and proceed to buy cheap real estate, Ed gets his bonuses and Ole is left to take the fall. Get Pochettino, rinse and repeat.
I never wanted us spending £80m on Maguire; I wouldn't have signed the deal for more than £40m.
Sorry I'm not leading a rebellion for you
we will find out when the window closes, but if it does pan out this way...wow. i still cant quite accept this amount of shithousery is all planned
I criticized the fee even though I liked the player, as many did in his transfer thread. That transfer was far from being unanimously supported.
Never wanted him and many on this forum certainly didnt think he was an 80m CB
I have never rated Maguire beyond a decent Joleon Lescott level defender. I have posts saying how happy I was that we baulked at him being valued at 60m back when Jose was here.
I honestly do not see it beyond a desperation for people in this country to rate all the England players. He is not a good but not great player.
Exactly, they should have made a final offer with what they were willing to pay then left it there. Even Dortmund set a deadline for it. After that we should have moved on. After that it just turns into a media circus which is what you try to avoid. Now it is beyond a joke. If we do make another signing for RW, people will view it as a panic buy which isn’t great confidence for the team or player being brought.
Im sorry but Maguire is better than Lescott. There were plenty of other foreign options but to make comments like that is just a joke. What is also a joke is the British transfer fees. They go up because clubs keep paying them. Until that stops, clubs will continue to rip other clubs off. Chilwell at £50m is the latest one.
If it isn't planned then where is the plan B, what about other positions that we also need to strengthen? Imo it was just an orchestrated media campaign designed to placate Ole and the fans.
If Woodward comes out after the window closes and says we tried really hard for Sancho but Dortmund weren't willing to budge and by the time we recognized that a deal wasn't feasible all our back up targets were signed by other teams what can we do to him? Then finish off with a promise to try again in January or next summer...
We will run out of time and then we will loan some players from china .. and hope for the best
I don't see the massive improvement in Maguire. Lindelof gets all the blame for yesterday but Maguire carelessly put the defence under pressure a couple of times. At this rate I'll say we start giving Baily, Tuanzebe and Mengi opportunity to be our first choice CBs - I know the first two can't stay fit. Add Smalling to the mix and the choice gets better, even with his own shortcomings. May not be the optimum but if any two of the four get an extended run we may be able to somehow reduce the deficiency of current CB pairing. No need spending more money, let's get the RW and midfield sorted out properly. The latter probably doesn't need additional purchase, perhaps a tweak in formation or team selection can do for at least this season. Then we can look for a capable replacment for Matic next season. I'll even say a cheap and dependable utility player utility player who can play as RW/RF and LW/LF is also crucial, because Rashford doesn't seem to be himself since coming back from injury. Someone we can get on loan is possible. A fairly stable defence - which we can manage from our current lot - and a good RW/RF in Sancho, who can also play on the left play, will do.
AWB is only good at defending, though he still gets caught out of position at times, otherwise he is not a massive addition to the team.
AWB is only good at defending, though he still gets caught out of position at times, otherwise he is not a massive addition to the team.
The recruitment is a problem but also the team selection. On recruitment, We keep on needing to sign players. The most stable our defense has ever looked was when we had Rojo -Bailly IMO probably because that was when Herrera was winning a lot of balls in Midfield
The thing about defense is that it’s more about structure than actual talent. It doesn’t matter who you sign, you will always complain if the defense is under coached. Look at how Ferguson could play Smalling, Evans and Jones without a lot of problems.
The thing about defense is that it’s more about structure than actual talent. It doesn’t matter who you sign, you will always complain if the defense is under coached. Look at how Ferguson could play Smalling, Evans and Jones without a lot of problems.
who else would you have bought, that was available?
I don't know. That's not my job. But I refused to believe that a club with Manchester United resources couldn't find a right back who can both attack and defend with 50 million
I dont agree with you at all, they are both very good defenders. Both players were highly sought after, and endorsed by vast majority of fan base. And they helped dramatically improve our defensive performance last season.
Add similar level LB, CB and DCM, and you'll have as good a defence as any other in world football.
Eg: Alaba, Upamecano, Maguire, Wan Bissika with Partey or Kante as shielding midfielder is as good as anyone else.
With our current way of buying players, those 3 players will cost close to another 200 million. That's not a sustainable way of rebuilding a playing squad.
We act like we have oil money while ee actually don't
Pereira from Leicester, PSG agreed a deal in Jan but he got injured.
That is who we should have got from Leicester instead of Maguire.
Upamencano was available last summer for 55m euros (release clause) both would have been much better signings and overall cost us less money
Maguire has been poor but he gets away with it because he's been fit for every game, which is something of a revelation for a United centreback in recent times. But he and AWB are going to be viewed of as poor signings 3-5 years from now, I'd bet a lot of money on it.
Fortunately for Maguire, Lindelof has been making him look more than adequate. Most spineless defender in the league. And AWB has no competition bar some Championship standard players like TFM and Dalot.
Fortunately for Maguire, Lindelof has been making him look more than adequate. Most spineless defender in the league. And AWB has no competition bar some Championship standard players like TFM and Dalot.