Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[Foxbatt]

A good manager will get much better output from this squad. Tactically he has been naive and got sussed out. Lose against Leicester and he is going to be in big trouble.
We can't even best Wolves who are 4th from bottom on goal difference.

 

[Lentwood]

I must say I am starting to understand when Jose said that getting us second was his greatest achievement, and then why he downed tools the following season, I hated having him here, and don't want him anywhere near us again, but we are just so far removed from been a top team it's crazy, and now we have Ole exposing the brutal reality of where we we actually are.

The best manager in the world couldn't be expected to achieve much with this team, and he would need a team of elite footballing people, loads of time, and a massive amount of cash to claw us back to the top, we have a sentimental novice as a manager, backed up by Phelan and Carrick, with a non footballing man running the rule over the transfers, all at a time when the owners of our club have decided to have a cost cutting exercise, and to reduce transfer outgoings, I'm just struggling to see a way out for us.

It’s not a cost-cutting exercise, I’m tired of seeing people make this point.

I’ve been mega-critical of the Glazers over spending, in fact I spent hours composing a thread about it and analysing each clubs spend accounting for transfer inflation. However, since 2010 we’ve spent over £1BN pounds on transfer fees, not to mention our wage bill is one of the highest in the world

Now, when Jose took us to 2nd and we had ungrateful fans bleating about how many points behind City we were, I felt this analysis made a useful point. The problem is now, we’re even further down the line, have spent even more money and yet we’re actually getting significantly worse.

The Glazers cutting costs by selling players is like a farmer with a golden goose slaughtering it for its meat. It would make literally zero sense. Sensible analysis shows cost cutting occurred between 2005-2010 when the club were leveraged with high-interest PIK loans. Yes, this period hurt us significantly, yes, it ended our period of dominance in Europe and in the PL and set us back years in our pursuit of a proper title challenge. I don’t, however, think you can blame cost cutting for us battling it out for 6th with Wolves, Everton and Leicester because we have budgets for wages and transfers they could only dream of

Ask me why we began to decline, I wouldn’t say SAF leaving as my number one reason, I would say “under-investment between 2005-2014”.

Ask me why we are still wallowing in mid-table after four full time managers and £1BN+ spent and honestly I would have to put lack of investment a long way down the list of reasons, which should look something like;

- Lack of strategic footballing leadership

- Terrible recruitment policies including shocking signings, failing to identify talent and giving too much autonomy to
individual managers and Scouts

- Changing managers every two seasons

- Thinking like an accountant in the way we manage our squad i.e. “assets”*

* Not the amount invested but the way we renew mediocre players contracts to protect their value. This on paper seems a sensible strategy but actually makes it hard to move on from bad decisions

 

[Enigma_87]

A good manager will get much better output from this squad. Tactically he has been naive and got sussed out. Lose against Leicester and he is going to be in big trouble.
We can't even best Wolves who are 4th from bottom on goal difference.

A lose/draw against Leicester would mean we will fall down in the second half of the table. We’re currently 9th.

Our next 4-5 fixtures after that will be tough as well and we have Europa League. By no stretch of imagination we can be in the bottom half of the table come late October.

 

[humdinger]

For me, the main positive is that the three new recruits he’s brought in are literally our 3 best players and they seem to have fantastic attitudes. Makes me think that actually he would do a good job at rebuilding the squad. Also has removed some players from the bloated squad who had no business being here. Some remain (Rojo is my bug bear in particular) but at least he’s cleared some.

He keeps picking very limited players though like Lingard and Pereira. I guess he must really trust them because they aren’t pulling up any trees on the pitch. Can’t be easy though as it’s not like there’s quality players waiting to rotate in - just some talented youngsters and other players who also have limitations.

We have immature and inexperienced players who have a history of buckling under pressure. He isn’t a top class manager so he isn’t going to work magic with this lot, but he’s doing ok I think.

 

[7even]

For me, the main positive is that the three new recruits he’s brought in are literally our 3 best players and they seem to have fantastic attitudes. Makes me think that actually he would do a good job at rebuilding the squad. Also has removed some players from the bloated squad who had no business being here. Some remain (Rojo is my bug bear in particular) but at least he’s cleared some.

He keeps picking very limited players though like Lingard and Pereira. I guess he must really trust them because they aren’t pulling up any trees on the pitch. Can’t be easy though as it’s not like there’s quality players waiting to rotate in - just some talented youngsters and other players who also have limitations.

We have immature and inexperienced players who have a history of buckling under pressure. He isn’t a top class manager so he isn’t going to work magic with this lot, but he’s doing ok I think.

......

 

[luke511]

If we think it's bad now imagine what it's going to be like when we're playing on a Thursday as well..

 

[Keefy18]

First of all I said he is the worst appointment of all time and that means as permanent manager. Since then he is on 19%. Go check your stats if you will.

It's a feckin idiotic stat! Why ignore the games he was in charge of prior? It's skewing stats to create an agenda to get on his case about.

Caretaker or not, he's managed 33 games and his record overall is 51% win avg.

Second of all it’s useless to argue with you as you seem to have blind faith in him. Let’s revisit this thread and those stats in one month time to see if you will be in the same mind, ok?

Funnily I don't have blind faith in him.

I'm just happy to afford him time cause he's made great decisions regarding the rebuild already and I our actual performances have improved this season and he's addressed key areas.

Lots of positives if you can step off the negativity train

And third of all it’s useless to debate actual parts of the game - tactics, instructions and subs since you keep replying with stats and that players should be doing what they are doing, give time and other excuses. All the successful managers have a clear game plan since day one. What Ole plan is - counter attacking and leave it there with added blind faith.

Let me get this straight, you keep throwing out an idiotic 19% stat but then say I can't retort with the actual proper stats?

I've not provided you with stats in regards to in game play, just the managers stats.

In game I've said he wants a mix of counter attacking football or high press, depending on the opposition. Which is what I've clearly seen.

I could dig out match stats but you'd no doubt deny them too and just continue to find fault in every little thing that comes close to a counter argument and defence of Ole.

A lose/draw against Leicester would mean we will fall down in the second half of the table. We’re currently 9th.

Currently going into the break we are on 5pts along with Spurs and Chelsea, two sides who are considered our main competition for top 4.

Arsenal are a whopping 2 pts ahead.

It's not an ideal start but then again it hasn't been either for others and were on course like the rest.

Just another 34 games left is all

 

[Amarsdd]

So I checked the xG, xPTS etc points table from last season.

It had Manchester City far ahead of Liverpool, far ahead of Chelsea in third, with United and Tottenham on equal points in fourth.

Brighton, Fulham and Huddersfield relegated.

So 3/4, almost 4/4 spot on for the top end and 2/3 correct for the bottom end of the table.

This suggests to me, that there is enough of a connection for it to be considered statistically significant.

For the curious, the xPTS points table this season stands as:

Manchester City 10.07
Manchester United 9.34
Liverpool 7.69
Chelsea 6.39


This, is of course over just four matches as opposed to a whole season, but it may point towards a season where we improve on last year, at least in terms of performances.

And once you're outperforming your opponents more often than not, it may be possible to get in a player or two who can fix whatever issue is holding your results back.

I know the overall mood is gloomy this weekend so I thought I'd share.

Good post.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

It’s not a cost-cutting exercise, I’m tired of seeing people make this point.

I’ve been mega-critical of the Glazers over spending, in fact I spent hours composing a thread about it and analysing each clubs spend accounting for transfer inflation. However, since 2010 we’ve spent over £1BN pounds on transfer fees, not to mention our wage bill is one of the highest in the world

Now, when Jose took us to 2nd and we had ungrateful fans bleating about how many points behind City we were, I felt this analysis made a useful point. The problem is now, we’re even further down the line, have spent even more money and yet we’re actually getting significantly worse.

The Glazers cutting costs by selling players is like a farmer with a golden goose slaughtering it for its meat. It would make literally zero sense. Sensible analysis shows cost cutting occurred between 2005-2010 when the club were leveraged with high-interest PIK loans. Yes, this period hurt us significantly, yes, it ended our period of dominance in Europe and in the PL and set us back years in our pursuit of a proper title challenge. I don’t, however, think you can blame cost cutting for us battling it out for 6th with Wolves, Everton and Leicester because we have budgets for wages and transfers they could only dream of

Ask me why we began to decline, I wouldn’t say SAF leaving as my number one reason, I would say “under-investment between 2005-2014”.

Ask me why we are still wallowing in mid-table after four full time managers and £1BN+ spent and honestly I would have to put lack of investment a long way down the list of reasons, which should look something like;

- Lack of strategic footballing leadership

- Terrible recruitment policies including shocking signings, failing to identify talent and giving too much autonomy to
individual managers and Scouts

- Changing managers every two seasons

- Thinking like an accountant in the way we manage our squad i.e. “assets”*

* Not the amount invested but the way we renew mediocre players contracts to protect their value. This on paper seems a sensible strategy but actually makes it hard to move on from bad decisions

I never said any different, they have clearly spent money, and done it terribly as you say, so have maybe weighed it up and decided the input for output isn't worth it now, CL is money is maybe not worth all the hassle anymore, but unquestionably we are currently cost cutting, or not spending what we were, and trying to reduce the wage bill if that's fairer? Which is all I was saying, whether we are doing this for a bright new future further down the line, or for purposes that won't benefit on the pitch is the only question.

 

[Mainoldo]

It’s not a cost-cutting exercise, I’m tired of seeing people make this point.

I’ve been mega-critical of the Glazers over spending, in fact I spent hours composing a thread about it and analysing each clubs spend accounting for transfer inflation. However, since 2010 we’ve spent over £1BN pounds on transfer fees, not to mention our wage bill is one of the highest in the world

Now, when Jose took us to 2nd and we had ungrateful fans bleating about how many points behind City we were, I felt this analysis made a useful point. The problem is now, we’re even further down the line, have spent even more money and yet we’re actually getting significantly worse.

The Glazers cutting costs by selling players is like a farmer with a golden goose slaughtering it for its meat. It would make literally zero sense. Sensible analysis shows cost cutting occurred between 2005-2010 when the club were leveraged with high-interest PIK loans. Yes, this period hurt us significantly, yes, it ended our period of dominance in Europe and in the PL and set us back years in our pursuit of a proper title challenge. I don’t, however, think you can blame cost cutting for us battling it out for 6th with Wolves, Everton and Leicester because we have budgets for wages and transfers they could only dream of

Ask me why we began to decline, I wouldn’t say SAF leaving as my number one reason, I would say “under-investment between 2005-2014”.

Ask me why we are still wallowing in mid-table after four full time managers and £1BN+ spent and honestly I would have to put lack of investment a long way down the list of reasons, which should look something like;

- Lack of strategic footballing leadership

- Terrible recruitment policies including shocking signings, failing to identify talent and giving too much autonomy to
individual managers and Scouts

- Changing managers every two seasons

- Thinking like an accountant in the way we manage our squad i.e. “assets”*

* Not the amount invested but the way we renew mediocre players contracts to protect their value. This on paper seems a sensible strategy but actually makes it hard to move on from bad decisions

This

 

[Enigma_87]

It's a feckin idiotic stat! Why ignore the games he was in charge of prior? It's skewing stats to create an agenda to get on his case about.

Caretaker or not, he's managed 33 games and his record overall is 51% win avg.



Funnily I don't have blind faith in him.

I'm just happy to afford him time cause he's made great decisions regarding the rebuild already and I our actual performances have improved this season and he's addressed key areas.

Lots of positives if you can step off the negativity train



Let me get this straight, you keep throwing out an idiotic 19% stat but then say I can't retort with the actual proper stats?

I've not provided you with stats in regards to in game play, just the managers stats.

In game I've said he wants a mix of counter attacking football or high press, depending on the opposition. Which is what I've clearly seen.

I could dig out match stats but you'd no doubt deny them too and just continue to find fault in every little thing that comes close to a counter argument and defence of Ole.



Currently going into the break we are on 5pts along with Spurs and Chelsea, two sides who are considered our main competition for top 4.

Arsenal are a whopping 2 pts ahead.

It's not an ideal start but then again it hasn't been either for others and were on course like the rest.

Just another 34 games left is all

Mate, you keep talking about thing I never said - his stats as both caretaker and permanent manager - something I have never said and then call it a lie.

You might not agree but this is my point - to me being a caretaker and a permanent manager has different level of pressure. You might not agree but then please explain the sudden fall of a cliff since he was made perm?

Anyway it’s my point and this percentage is correct idiotic it might be for you.

It’s not “proper” stats to call what I call 19% as it is. If you want to challenge the percentage since he was made permanent be my guest.

That 19% also goes to show current form and actual run we are on. I ask you this - was there any other United manager that was ever on that bad of a run and kept his job?

In terms of improvement he might addressed 2 areas to improve but he made the attack and midfield worse. You can’t mask that and it’s visible since the start of the new season. He has also implemented a 4-2-3-1 which so far certainly isn’t working.

If you give him props for improving some areas on the market then you certainly have to hold him responsible for being happy with the squad and the midfield and attack which is not only weaker but also short in numbers. Can’t have it both ways.

I already said those three are good recruits so far and maybe he can be a good recruiter for us but as a manger he’s one of the weakest tactically if not the weakest in PL.

I don’t need match stats mate. I have played football and probably you have as well. Counter attacking and a high press combined are two very different ideologies to be combined and formulated as a single playing style.

There are many nuances and generally you could describe easily the style Pep, Klopp, Simeone, Jose, LvG etc have and what they tried to implement.

Pashun, counter attacking and bunch of terms thrown like that does not make a recognised style but a bunch of mixture of styles here and there.

I asked you what you see in him - in his tactical acumen, in the subs he makes, in the choosing of formation to start the game, set pieces, how he handles opposition strengths, how we train some attacking moves, plan B - and many many more. What of those that I’ve enlisted made you think that he’s tactically astute manager and a manager that deserves time to manage a top side. No stats - in your own words.

 

[Shimo]

@Keefy18 - read several of your posts and you have a lot of valid points regarding how there have been individual errors and bit of bad luck with the penalties and that's all fair enough but, you are blatantly ignoring what has been a pattern in a lot of games where his game management has been severely wanting. This isn't something about just this season but, it was apparent after the drop off from his initial appointment. Many such as myself were willing to give him preseason to set his ways, do the whole thing about fitness and fight etc and see where he stands this season but, 4 games in, the scary thing is that as an in game manager, his faults have continued.

The body of work in front of you though in these first three games and then look at games from last season. The way he makes subs, it's like he has no plan. Giving some players barely a few minutes to make an impact or keeping players that are having nightmare on for way too long. When the other team makes adjustments and gets on top, he doesn't do anything, he just leaves it to the players, many that are young to sort it out themselves.

Yesterday's game, okay he tried something different from the start. James was having a great game but, on the other side Perreira was horrid and Pogba in behind was constantly losing the ball in trying to break free to create from his deep lying role. Matic and Lingard didn't come onto the pitch till after Southampton got their goal. Soon as they started off better in the second half, based on what he saw in the first half, he should have pulled the trigger to shore up midfield, get Perreira off, he was contributing to nothing in the attack and giving the ball away off the pitch. Getting Pogba higher up so Southampton would have had something else to worry about. Just chose not to be proactive.

We have a young team and when things are not going well on the pitch, in this case the manager need to step up to help and so far the signs are that tactically he is out of his depth.

 

[Jim Beam]

Here's a picture

Spoiler

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

Ole's three signings have been good so far, very good in fact. I think he'd be a great DOF, if our board are actually serious about appointing one - he knows the club inside out, loves the club with a passion, and has cut his chops as a manager. But his actual managerial and coaching abilities are mediocre - he isn't a modern manager, he's obsessed with trying to replicate SAF and seems to think that counter-attacking with no Plan B is a good option. Looking at the next 5-6 games we have, there's a very high chance we could end up in the bottom half of the table very soon. And if that's where we are around season-ticket-renewal time, he's a goner. And Woodward will tell us all that we should stick with the club and renew tickets (for those that have them) because we've again learned from our mistakes and are performing due diligence, a DOF is coming, there's a 'warchest' for the summer. And none of those will actually happen, if the season tickets are renewed.

Our faithful game-going fans will be the absolute downfall of this football club unless they start thinking for themselves. This is a football team you support, it's a fecking hobby, it's not a ****. Think for yourselves.

 

[Abhinav]

I like Ole and back him to turn things around. But he critically needs to fix some glaring issues and start getting some wins. We need to move the ball quicker and find a way to break down teams that sit back. Apart from James, none of our attackers are decisive enough and seem to be making the same mistakes over and over again. That all of them are happy to hang around the box rather than make runs into goal scoring positions is really frustrating.

The defence during set pieces is another worry. We need to build a unit that does not concede every time we come under some pressure. The talent is there, just needs more coordination and organisation.

Still, I feel optimistic with the football we have played, even if we didn’t get the right results so far. If we get a couple of wins, this team will grow in confidence and can get on a run like last year.

And for all the people who keep calling Ole incompetent and naive, he has outperformed the Caf favourite Pochettino since he came to United. I’d rather suffer the growing pains and be patient than get another manager who is not good enough.

 

[MackRobinson]

Ole's three signings have been good so far, very good in fact. I think he'd be a great DOF, if our board are actually serious about appointing one - he knows the club inside out, loves the club with a passion, and has cut his chops as a manager. But his actual managerial and coaching abilities are mediocre - he isn't a modern manager, he's obsessed with trying to replicate SAF and seems to think that counter-attacking with no Plan B is a good option. Looking at the next 5-6 games we have, there's a very high chance we could end up in the bottom half of the table very soon. And if that's where we are around season-ticket-renewal time, he's a goner. And Woodward will tell us all that we should stick with the club and renew tickets (for those that have them) because we've again learned from our mistakes and are performing due diligence, a DOF is coming, there's a 'warchest' for the summer. And none of those will actually happen, if the season tickets are renewed.

Our faithful game-going fans will be the absolute downfall of this football club unless they start thinking for themselves. This is a football team you support, it's a fecking hobby, it's not a ****. Think for yourselves.

What?

 

[Champagne Football]

Lets not forget that Mourinho desperately wanted us to spend an extra 200 million on Willian, Peresic, Jerome Boateng and Renato Sanchez, on top of the 400 million already spent.

Ole has made 3 signings and they are our 3 best players already along with McTominay who is another who never would have saw regular game time under Jose.

With patience hopefully Greenwood and Garner will be top top first XI starters in a year or so too. There's a lot to be positive about even though the rebuild will be slow and painful.

 

[Random Task]

People also need to remember that the vast majority of players at Ole's disposal are Jose, LVG and even Moyes' signings. The very same players that those managers failed to get a tune out of consistently and that Ole is endeavouring to rid the club of. Interestingly enough, AWB, Maguire and James have probably been our best performers so far this season, all of which were signed by Ole.

Coincidence or just good management?

 

[haram]

What a load of bollocks that post by Champagne Football is.

It's hilarious when people talk about bad luck as if the 3 wins we actually do have in the last 15 games didn't involve a lot of good luck .

 

[Tel074]

God, what's with the excuses with people on this caf? It was pretty much the same team that recorded 8 away wins consecutively when he was caretaker manager. Can't be blaming managers? Are you serious? At the end of the day, this is pretty much a business. When the company is not functioning properly, management takes the fall for it for not 'MANAGING'.

Ole needs to be blamed for
1. Playing Pogba in a much deeper role than required
2. Poor substitutions and poor timing of substitutions
3. Poor tactical responses when we conceded a goal
4. Not being certain in terms of having a proper predetermined penalty taker
5. Switching to a 4-2-3-1 when our success has been 4-3-3

He is a football COACH . He manages nothing he coaches so in a way you are correct . When a company isn't working the MANAGEMENT should be fecked off .

So in your eyes we sack Ole. Then what ? Give who the job ?
Thankfully most proper United fans see this for what it is . We are poor but it will get better it may get worse first but we will give Ole time and in a year or twos time if it is still as bad then maybe we can start thinking about something else.

Our main problem is changing the manager so much in our recent history and allowing each one of them to bring in their own players . This has to stop we need to start buying players that suit a style of play we want to play and fit a manager around that rather than the opposite.

 

[Sky1981]

Lets not forget that Mourinho desperately wanted us to spend an extra 200 million on Willian, Peresic, Jerome Boateng and Renato Sanchez, on top of the 400 million already spent.

Ole has made 3 signings and they are our 3 best players already along with McTominay who is another who never would have saw regular game time under Jose.

With patience hopefully Greenwood and Garner will be top top first XI starters in a year or so too. There's a lot to be positive about even though the rebuild will be slow and painful.

Top top player. We said that about rashford 2 years ago. Very high ceiling and all that.

 

[Enigma_87]

He is a football COACH . He manages nothing he coaches so in a way you are correct . When a company isn't working the MANAGEMENT should be fecked off .

So in your eyes we sack Ole. Then what ? Give who the job ?
Thankfully most proper United fans see this for what it is . We are poor but it will get better it may get worse first but we will give Ole time and in a year or twos time if it is still as bad then maybe we can start thinking about something else.

Our main problem is changing the manager so much in our recent history and allowing each one of them to bring in their own players . This has to stop we need to start buying players that suit a style of play we want to play and fit a manager around that rather than the opposite.

We sack Ole. Get some interim like Blanc or whoever can get more out of the current crop.

We sit down and appoint DoF.

We sit with the DoF and pick a style we want to play and a shortlist of candidates that fit that style.

We rank them as who is our best fit at the moment and start approaching them.

We appoint a good coach, with proven credentials (even if he isn't the very best), with progressive and modern thinking.

We give him budget to do the rebuild.

 

[Sky1981]

People also need to remember that the vast majority of players at Ole's disposal are Jose, LVG and even Moyes' signings. The very same players that those managers failed to get a tune out of consistently and that Ole is endeavouring to rid the club of. Interestingly enough, AWB, Maguire and James have probably been our best performers so far this season, all of which were signed by Ole.

Coincidence or just good management?

It's 3 game.

Most of our deadwoods are hailed as genious buy in their first 3 games

 

[Random Task]

It's 3 game.

Most of our deadwoods are hailed as genious buy in their first 3 games

Not sure what you mean by that, sorry.

 

[Champagne Football]

Top top player. We said that about rashford 2 years ago. Very high ceiling and all that.

So Rashford is supported in attack by a 21 year old making his 4th ever Premier league appearance to the left, and a Glasgow Celtic level player on the right making his first ever appearance on the right in Pereira, then a Glasgow Celtic level player behind him in Juan Mata and you've decided he's shit based on a game where he's surrounded by beginners and mediocrity? Not even Pele would have performed surrounded those 3.

Judge Rashford when he's surrounded by more quality. For England he always excels next to Kane and Sterling.

 

[fps]

It’s not that simple, we are relying on him like we used to rely on Bryan robson but THE GAME HAS MOVED ON

 

[Keefy18]

Mate, you keep talking about thing I never said - his stats as both caretaker and permanent manager - something I have never said and then call it a lie.

You might not agree but this is my point - to me being a caretaker and a permanent manager has different level of pressure. You might not agree but then please explain the sudden fall of a cliff since he was made perm?

I made the point earlier, would it not be the case that he would demand results more as care taker manager with the prospect of possibly getting the job?

If he didn't perform as care taker manager he wouldn't of gotten the job in the first place so its silly to suggest the pressure suddenly increases.

Your talking about Ole Gunnar Solksjaer who has given pretty much his entire adult life to the club and loves it.

Anyway it’s my point and this percentage is correct idiotic it might be for you.

It’s not “proper” stats to call what I call 19% as it is. If you want to challenge the percentage since he was made permanent be my guest.

That 19% also goes to show current form and actual run we are on. I ask you this - was there any other United manager that was ever on that bad of a run and kept his job?

Almost every site that correlates the stats doesn't mention the start point of his permanency, it runs from the Cardiff game. His first game where he managed Man United.

The only place I'm seeing this ridiculous stats is rags like the Sun who love to whip up sensationalist stories to generate likes, tweets and clicks.

In terms of improvement he might addressed 2 areas to improve but he made the attack and midfield worse. You can’t mask that and it’s visible since the start of the new season. He has also implemented a 4-2-3-1 which so far certainly isn’t working.

How has he made the attack worse?

James already has as many league goals as Sanchez!

After 4 games this season we've scored 7, last season we scored 6.
And just for good measure we conceded 7 goals in 4 games last year and just the 3 this year.

The midfield is weaker in terms of numbers, not a whole lot different than last year in terms of quality.

McTominay was out performing Ander at the back end of last season. Fellaini was already replaced by Fred arguably. Matic still here.

We badly need quality in there and that was a similar complaint last season as well.

If you give him props for improving some areas on the market then you certainly have to hold him responsible for being happy with the squad and the midfield and attack which is not only weaker but also short in numbers. Can’t have it both ways.

You actually think he's happy with this squad? I feckin highly, highly doubt it. He's not washing dirty laundry in public like his predecessor.

We don't know what happened, it seems we were let down possibly by the board or perhaps cause other clubs like Leicester delaying the Maguire transfer we didn't get a MF in.

Is there genuinely anything out there that definitely lays blame solely at Ole's door over the failure to get more players in?

I don’t need match stats mate. I have played football and probably you have as well. Counter attacking and a high press combined are two very different ideologies to be combined and formulated as a single playing style.

There are many nuances and generally you could describe easily the style Pep, Klopp, Simeone, Jose, LvG etc have and what they tried to implement.

Pretty sure Liverpool play a mix of counter and high pressing, depending on the team and game in question.

I've seen us display a mix of counter football (Rashfords goal vs Chelsea) and high pressing goal vs Palace (James)... Pogba wins possession in the final third, 3 passes later James has scored.

I asked you what you see in him - in his tactical acumen, in the subs he makes, in the choosing of formation to start the game, set pieces, how he handles opposition strengths, how we train some attacking moves, plan B - and many many more. What of those that I’ve enlisted made you think that he’s tactically astute manager and a manager that deserves time to manage a top side. No stats - in your own words.

I take on board our squad isn't up to scratch and his options are limited when trying to turn a game.

It's also only 4 games into the season and as it plays out, the youth players will slowly be introduced rather than just dumping them all in at once and expecting instant results and demanding success of them.

The real action begins after the break with Europa and League cup games mixed in with the league matches. There's no way we'll see the same team 3 games on the bounce in a single week so I've no doubt we'll start seeing Chong, Gomes, Garner and Greenwood involved more and hopefully that youthful exuberance brings us more energy and spurs the senior players to realize their spots aren't there for granted.

 

[Random Task]

We sack Ole. Get some interim like Blanc or whoever can get more out of the current crop.

We sit down and appoint DoF.

We sit with the DoF and pick a style we want to play and a shortlist of candidates that fit that style.

We rank them as who is our best fit at the moment and start approaching them.

We appoint a good coach, with proven credentials (even if he isn't the very best), with progressive and modern thinking.

We give him budget to do the rebuild.

Honestly, I can see Woody reverting back to the galactico approach if we brought in someone like Blanc, and we all know how that turned out last time. At least under Ole, we appear to have some direction in the transfer market rather than the blase approach of previous seasons.

 

[Enigma_87]

Honestly, I can see Woody reverting back to the galactico approach if we brought in someone like Blanc, and we all know how that turned out last time. At least under Ole, we appear to have some direction in the transfer market rather than the blase approach of previous seasons.

I've described the way we should properly do a rebuild. Blanc just was an example. My point is take a stop gap manager till the end of the season that will improve our game on the pitch. Not as in make him permanent and blow 200m in the Summer. I just don't trust Ole as a manager to be able to improve on what we currently have in our ranks and give us the best possible position this year.

In the meantime during this season get a DoF and proper structure in place, isn't what we intended last year before he was made perm?

Then pick a style and players/manager that suit that style in this way we won't be in such a mess and even if we change the next manager the players we bring will be useful for him and us in the long term.

 

[el3mel]

It's 3 game.

Most of our deadwoods are hailed as genious buy in their first 3 games

Haha you're definitely right. Doesn't even need a strong memory to say in almost every August of every season, people thought our signings of this summer are top and will fix all our problems. It happened in both LVG and Mourinho 2 full seasons for each. Darmian was thought to be the one who will seal the RB position for us or something.

Let's wait till it's the crucial time of the season before start saying things like this.

 

[Random Task]

I've described the way we should properly do a rebuild. Blanc just was an example. My point is take a stop gap manager till the end of the season that will improve our game on the pitch. Not as in make him permanent and blow 200m in the Summer. I just don't trust Ole as a manager to be able to improve on what we currently have in our ranks and give us the best possible position this year.

In the meantime during this season get a DoF and proper structure in place, isn't what we intended last year before he was made perm?

Then pick a style and players/manager that suit that style in this way we won't be in such a mess and even if we change the next manager the players we bring will be useful for him and us in the long term.

I don't think Ole is the right man to lead the club forward either, at least not from a tactical perspective, but I'd be happy to give him a couple of transfer windows because he appears to have a keen eye for talent.

You do realise that the club will not sack Ole this season unless relegation becomes a realistic possibility. I genuinely believe the board are in full support of Ole and they will persevere with him under the harshest of circumstances.

 

[Random Task]

Haha you're definitely right. Doesn't even need a strong memory to say in almost every August of every season, people thought our signings of this summer are top and will fix all our problems. It happened in both LVG and Mourinho 2 full seasons for each. Darmian was thought to be the one who will seal the RB position for us or something.

Let's wait till it's the crucial time of the season before start saying things like this.

The difference being both AWB and Maguire are proven PL quality from their time with Palace and Leicester, they have simply carried that form from last year into the new season with United.

 

[LJJT]

We sack Ole. Get some interim like Blanc or whoever can get more out of the current crop.

We sit down and appoint DoF.

We sit with the DoF and pick a style we want to play and a shortlist of candidates that fit that style.

We rank them as who is our best fit at the moment and start approaching them.

We appoint a good coach, with proven credentials (even if he isn't the very best), with progressive and modern thinking.

We give him budget to do the rebuild.

So do you think this basic logical thinking wasn’t applied with Moyes, lvg and Jose? Do you think everyone’s just making it up as they go along? We can plan it all out to death if the players can’t be arsed or aren’t good enough it’s not going to work. Jose, LVG have got track records to die for and tactically up there with the best. But the players didn’t respond and it was crap

 

[Enigma_87]

So do you think this basic logical thinking wasn’t applied with Moyes, lvg and Jose? Do you think everyone’s just making it up as they go along? We can plan it all out to death if the players can’t be arsed or aren’t good enough it’s not going to work. Jose, LVG have got track records to die for and tactically up there with the best. But the players didn’t respond and it was crap

Clearly it wasn't since Moyes, LvG and Jose have contrasting styles of play.

 

[Robbie Boy]

At least he’s not Mourinho. Apart from that, I’m struggling to find much positivity.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

You're right, let's sack him and start the whole process again. The next guy will also fail with these same players (like i predicted before we sacked Mourinho) so we should sack him, and so on.

Yes keep sacking until we get our Klopp or Pep.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

Strawman? You said my logic is flawed but you grossly missed my point.
My point wasn't that we shouldn't try new managers, but rather that no approach will ever be good enough to make MUFC one of the best clubs in the world again, because the board doesn't care about that as long as the club is making them money.
Then you named Pep as an example of a great catch by Manchester City while ignoring the fact that his predecessor had won the Premier League once and that the squad and the board are way beyond ours.
Poch has all the support from Levy and they are an ambitious project. Do you really think he'd do as well in MUFC alongside Ed Woodward? Maybe he could take us to top 4 but that's it. You may say that would be an improvement but we wouldn't go past that.
I'll sum it up: no manager will lead us to a Premier League title under the Glazers. We can hire one that takes us to the top 4 but no one will go beyond that as long as the devil's offspring own the club.

Poch has never been backed as much as United managers.

 

[0le]

It’s not a cost-cutting exercise, I’m tired of seeing people make this point.

I’ve been mega-critical of the Glazers over spending, in fact I spent hours composing a thread about it and analysing each clubs spend accounting for transfer inflation. However, since 2010 we’ve spent over £1BN pounds on transfer fees, not to mention our wage bill is one of the highest in the world

Now, when Jose took us to 2nd and we had ungrateful fans bleating about how many points behind City we were, I felt this analysis made a useful point. The problem is now, we’re even further down the line, have spent even more money and yet we’re actually getting significantly worse.

The Glazers cutting costs by selling players is like a farmer with a golden goose slaughtering it for its meat. It would make literally zero sense. Sensible analysis shows cost cutting occurred between 2005-2010 when the club were leveraged with high-interest PIK loans. Yes, this period hurt us significantly, yes, it ended our period of dominance in Europe and in the PL and set us back years in our pursuit of a proper title challenge. I don’t, however, think you can blame cost cutting for us battling it out for 6th with Wolves, Everton and Leicester because we have budgets for wages and transfers they could only dream of

Ask me why we began to decline, I wouldn’t say SAF leaving as my number one reason, I would say “under-investment between 2005-2014”.

Ask me why we are still wallowing in mid-table after four full time managers and £1BN+ spent and honestly I would have to put lack of investment a long way down the list of reasons, which should look something like;

- Lack of strategic footballing leadership

- Terrible recruitment policies including shocking signings, failing to identify talent and giving too much autonomy to
individual managers and Scouts

- Changing managers every two seasons

- Thinking like an accountant in the way we manage our squad i.e. “assets”*

* Not the amount invested but the way we renew mediocre players contracts to protect their value. This on paper seems a sensible strategy but actually makes it hard to move on from bad decisions

Good post, lots of interesting points. You are correct.

 

[90 + 5min]

I haven't still got any answers from AntiOle brigade who they would see instead of Ole? And motivate their answers. All I see is sack, sack, sack, clueless, sack, sack. Play Gomes. Play Chong. Sack.

Oh, despite useless Ole and our useless team we are right now infront of Tottenham (better team and they have great Pochettino) and Chelsea (playing those supermegagreat young talents? How wierd? Or is it just so that Ole and us are better then some people think.

Give Ole time. Give Ole chance. Have patience.

 

[dev1l]

Poch has never been backed as much as United managers.

Are you saying that Ole has been supported more than Poch?
I don't think so. He publicly stated he expects the club to.sign a Lukaku replacement and it never happened.
Club also.blocked Rojo transfer to Everton.