Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[Enigma_87]

I made the point earlier, would it not be the case that he would demand results more as care taker manager with the prospect of possibly getting the job?

If he didn't perform as care taker manager he wouldn't of gotten the job in the first place so its silly to suggest the pressure suddenly increases.

Your talking about Ole Gunnar Solksjaer who has given pretty much his entire adult life to the club and loves it.



Almost every site that correlates the stats doesn't mention the start point of his permanency, it runs from the Cardiff game. His first game where he managed Man United.

The only place I'm seeing this ridiculous stats is rags like the Sun who love to whip up sensationalist stories to generate likes, tweets and clicks.

Let's just agree to disagree on that point mate Clearly we're on different matters.

How has he made the attack worse?

James already has as many league goals as Sanchez!

After 4 games this season we've scored 7, last season we scored 6.
And just for good measure we conceded 7 goals in 4 games last year and just the 3 this year.

The midfield is weaker in terms of numbers, not a whole lot different than last year in terms of quality.

McTominay was out performing Ander at the back end of last season. Fellaini was already replaced by Fred arguably. Matic still here.

We badly need quality in there and that was a similar complaint last season as well.

You forgot about Lukaku there. We have really short numbers in attack and we have zero forwards that have scored more than 20 goals in the course of a season in all comps.

Season is long and if you believe our attack is good enough I would disagree. I guess time will tell who is right about that

You actually think he's happy with this squad? I feckin highly, highly doubt it. He's not washing dirty laundry in public like his predecessor.

We don't know what happened, it seems we were let down possibly by the board or perhaps cause other clubs like Leicester delaying the Maguire transfer we didn't get a MF in.

Is there genuinely anything out there that definitely lays blame solely at Ole's door over the failure to get more players in?

He said he is, that shuts the door on your or my interpretation. He might believe the young lads are good enough and that's why we didn't go for midfield and attack.

After all you say you don't believe him, but at the end this is what he said and this is his own words. We don't know what happened but he came out couple of times and said he is happy with it - hence he will come under fire for those words - it's normal.

Pretty sure Liverpool play a mix of counter and high pressing, depending on the team and game in question.

I've seen us display a mix of counter football (Rashfords goal vs Chelsea) and high pressing goal vs Palace (James)... Pogba wins possession in the final third, 3 passes later James has scored.

We don't play Klopp type of football if that is what you are implying. I'll help you out. Klopp plays the so called (by him) heavy metal type of football.

Liverpool play high press, high defensive line. They press in packs to force error in the opposition and convert chances right away. It's different to simple counter attacking since the counter attacking style is to regain possession and then start an attack in order to create an opening. Klopp's style is based on clever positional play where his higher placed players are most likely to intercept a pass and convert in the most direct way possible - without launching an attack but rather exploit the already opened space in the opposition line, but also being high on the pitch unlike other counter attacking teams that set up deep and move the ball from behind.

His style is also hugely reliant on attacking full backs - even wing backs - that provide the width in attack, and also center backs to be high on the pitch sometimes in midfield to squeeze the opposition and cut the passing lanes. It has 3 midfielders that protect to defence and able to provide cover wide for their wing backs.

It also means your players must be tactically and positionally spot on - very aware of each other position and tasks and also be very careful to press without committing a foul.

It requires a monumental amount of fitness but also focus and if one player leaves his position it will leave all your backline exposed.

Your team has to be very, very well organized and must never sit back against opposition like Palace, Wolves or Soton.

In short in order to execute such plan and organization you need a very strict and competent manager.

Even one player that is not able to fill his role on the pitch will make the whole system collapse.

So once again is that a style that Ole implements and what are his similarities to this?

If not - again what is his style?

I take on board our squad isn't up to scratch and his options are limited when trying to turn a game.

It's also only 4 games into the season and as it plays out, the youth players will slowly be introduced rather than just dumping them all in at once and expecting instant results and demanding success of them.

The real action begins after the break with Europa and League cup games mixed in with the league matches. There's no way we'll see the same team 3 games on the bounce in a single week so I've no doubt we'll start seeing Chong, Gomes, Garner and Greenwood involved more and hopefully that youthful exuberance brings us more energy and spurs the senior players to realize their spots aren't there for granted.

Again those are excuses.

No one is expecting to be on level points with Pool here. No one is expecting to rout the opposition every game.

Wolves have been shite since the start of the season and to no surprise are near relegation zone from the first 4 games.

What most are expecting is some basics that are needed for every coach that has a diploma. Learn how to attack and defend set pieces. Don't put Ashley Young on 6ft6 defender and main Soton attacking threat. Do not say you didn't even watch Palace last year, considering they have pretty much the same team under the same manager. Win very winnable games against inferior opposition that are even a man down. Introduce changes and subs quicker, especially when you are a man up.

You know things like that..

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

Are you saying that Ole has been supported more than Poch?
I don't think so. He publicly stated he expects the club to.sign a Lukaku replacement and it never happened.
Club also.blocked Rojo transfer to Everton.

Ole has been allowed to make wholesale change at the club. He said he was happy with squad while Poch made it clear the recruitment team are not doing what is required. Also United's net and total spend is higher than Tottenham this and every other season.

 

[dev1l]

Ole has been allowed to make wholesale change at the club. He said he was happy with squad while Poch made it clear the recruitment team are not doing what is required. Also United's net and total spend is higher than Tottenham this and every other season.

I m not convinced the board gave him what he asked for. He clearly said he expected the club to sign a replacement for lukaku. Instead we left Lukaku for the last minute and didn't get any replacement.
If he said he s happy with the squad... that means nothing.
Even if he s not happy he cannot say that publicly as that would be interpreted as lack of faith in the team.
A Certain mourinho did that last summer and we know how it ended

 

[Mainoldo]

I m not convinced the board gave him what he asked for. He clearly said he expected the club to sign a replacement for lukaku. Instead we left Lukaku for the last minute and didn't get any replacement.
If he said he s happy with the squad... that means nothing.
Even if he s not happy he cannot say that publicly as that would be interpreted as lack of faith in the team.
A Certain mourinho did that last summer and we know how it ended

He did say that. So who the hell was his replacement? We all knew Lukaku was leaving... why wait until he actually goes. As far as I’m concerned his replacement was Dybala.

 

[fps]

Odd thing is, he isn't even really giving the youth a chance. Greenwood getting 8 minutes at the end of games is hardly giving them a proper shot.

Lingard's played in every game. Lad's getting great minutes.

 

[royboy16]

It would be nice to have a run of games to try get a bit of momentum going but I look at our next 10 league games and not sure how they will pan out the way things have been going.
Leicester (H).
West Ham (A).
Arsenal (H).
Newcastle (A).
liverpool (H).
Norwich (A).
Bournemouth (A).
Brighton (H).
Sheffield Utd (A).
Villa (H).

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

He did say that. So who the hell was his replacement? We all knew Lukaku was leaving... why wait until he actually goes. As far as I’m concerned his replacement was Dybala.

There was, as always, no plan. If Lukaku was sold, it would fund Harry Maguire because our board is now clearly sticking to a roughly £70m spend each summer due to over-spending on absolute shite in previous windows. If we hadn't sold Romelu, I'm convinced we wouldn't have signed Maguire and I would happily welcome anyone presenting evidence that I'm wrong - we signed him for the fee Leicester were demanding all summer long. Something was stopping us from agreeing that fee, and for me, that something was no money coming in. We were happy to welcome the suggestion of a Lukaku replacement when it was part of that overall deal (Mandzukic), and yet when that swap fell through, we balked at paying £15-20m for an experienced, hard working, reputable striker even as a stop-gap signing. Why? Because we'd have to actually pay for the cnut. It's all there clear as day, but some fans don't want to see it. As soon as that fell through, Ole claimed Romelu's replacement was a 17yr old unproven kid that was already here. Why? Because his puppet-masters told him to say that. Sockpuppet of a manager.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

I m not convinced the board gave him what he asked for. He clearly said he expected the club to sign a replacement for lukaku. Instead we left Lukaku for the last minute and didn't get any replacement.
If he said he s happy with the squad... that means nothing.
Even if he s not happy he cannot say that publicly as that would be interpreted as lack of faith in the team.
A Certain mourinho did that last summer and we know how it ended

Well this is ending the same way it seems.
Poch complained about lack of transfers, there is a way to complain about transfers without being Jose. I can only go on what Ole said.

 

[Un4givableB]

Well this is ending the same way it seems.
Poch complained about lack of transfers, there is a way to complain about transfers without being Jose. I can only go on what Ole said.

This

There are many tactful ways to show whether or not you are happy with your squad, most managers do it, Ole says he's happy with his squad we should take his word for it.

 

[SteveW]

Not sure what the underlying metrics are but this seems to back up my belief that we've been more unlucky than poor so far.

No need for all the panic.

Edit: seems to be based on expected goals. Goes against the common refrain on here that we are creating nothing.

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[ThinkTank@Cafe]

Let's just agree to disagree on that point mate Clearly we're on different matters.


You forgot about Lukaku there. We have really short numbers in attack and we have zero forwards that have scored more than 20 goals in the course of a season in all comps.

Season is long and if you believe our attack is good enough I would disagree. I guess time will tell who is right about that



He said he is, that shuts the door on your or my interpretation. He might believe the young lads are good enough and that's why we didn't go for midfield and attack.

After all you say you don't believe him, but at the end this is what he said and this is his own words. We don't know what happened but he came out couple of times and said he is happy with it - hence he will come under fire for those words - it's normal.



We don't play Klopp type of football if that is what you are implying. I'll help you out. Klopp plays the so called (by him) heavy metal type of football.

Liverpool play high press, high defensive line. They press in packs to force error in the opposition and convert chances right away. It's different to simple counter attacking since the counter attacking style is to regain possession and then start an attack in order to create an opening. Klopp's style is based on clever positional play where his higher placed players are most likely to intercept a pass and convert in the most direct way possible - without launching an attack but rather exploit the already opened space in the opposition line, but also being high on the pitch unlike other counter attacking teams that set up deep and move the ball from behind.

His style is also hugely reliant on attacking full backs - even wing backs - that provide the width in attack, and also center backs to be high on the pitch sometimes in midfield to squeeze the opposition and cut the passing lanes. It has 3 midfielders that protect to defence and able to provide cover wide for their wing backs.

It also means your players must be tactically and positionally spot on - very aware of each other position and tasks and also be very careful to press without committing a foul.

It requires a monumental amount of fitness but also focus and if one player leaves his position it will leave all your backline exposed.

Your team has to be very, very well organized and must never sit back against opposition like Palace, Wolves or Soton.

In short in order to execute such plan and organization you need a very strict and competent manager.

Even one player that is not able to fill his role on the pitch will make the whole system collapse.

So once again is that a style that Ole implements and what are his similarities to this?

If not - again what is his style?



Again those are excuses.

No one is expecting to be on level points with Pool here. No one is expecting to rout the opposition every game.

Wolves have been shite since the start of the season and to no surprise are near relegation zone from the first 4 games.

What most are expecting is some basics that are needed for every coach that has a diploma. Learn how to attack and defend set pieces. Don't put Ashley Young on 6ft6 defender and main Soton attacking threat. Do not say you didn't even watch Palace last year, considering they have pretty much the same team under the same manager. Win very winnable games against inferior opposition that are even a man down. Introduce changes and subs quicker, especially when you are a man up.

You know things like that..

Klopp was 8th in 2015-2016 season (after he took the team in October 2015). Liverpool looked a circus the whole season. Set pieces and “all the basics blah blah” require a lot of concentration on the pitch under floodlights in the real life. Unsettled or blending team is prone to mistakes. That circus happened not because Klopp didn’t have a style or diploma, but because he didn’t have a personnel and time. Everyone knew what style Klopp had in Dortmund. He developed it in Liverpool. But it required time. Frankly, it’s not “Klopp’s style”, it’s a philosophy implemented by a great thinker of the game at an ambitious club in the best league in history. Great times for football watchers.

Ole is developing a different, but as sensible pragmatic “style”. Yes he sits deeper after scoring. But the team tends to score first. We press and control possession, then score (important!) and then sit deeper and counter. Statistically, it’s an advantageous situation. Especially given our fast players like Rashford, Martial and James in front. That’s why Pogba is deep. A big difference from Mourinho is that we create chances (2 pens in 4 games, another one stonewall pen on Martial is not an anomaly: we have penetration). Mourinho, unfortunately, is dead as a coach (generational and personal factors, cannot mentally adapt). But “his” style is not because it’s a School in football. Very successful one, and can be very beautiful: SAF, Zidane and...Ole?

Again: Klopp was 8th in 2016 after 8 months at the helm. He was 4th in 2017, almost two full seasons, when United finished 2nd under Mourinho.

Give Ole time. If he fails he will be sacked. But calling for his head now is just ridiculous.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Not sure what the underlying metrics are but this seems to back up my belief that we've been more unlucky than poor so far.

No need for all the panic.

Edit: seems to be based on expected goals. Goes against the common refrain on here that we are creating nothing.

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Risky to pin all our hopes on xG for us coming good.

 

[SteveW]

Risky to pin all our hopes on xG for us coming good.

I'm not. Just thought it was worth mentioning considering half of the people on here are acting like we've been terrible in every game. We havent been.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Not sure what the underlying metrics are but this seems to back up my belief that we've been more unlucky than poor so far.

No need for all the panic.

Edit: seems to be based on expected goals. Goes against the common refrain on here that we are creating nothing.

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It accounts for xG against too, we’re first in the league for xG against and fourth for xG. I assume it counts penalties so if you took them out I think we’d look less impressive in an attacking regard. As for the defensive stat, we’ve played two sides that have set up not to lose. It’s early days to read too much into it right now I think except we’ve shot ourselves in the foot so far.

 

[ThinkTank@Cafe]

Not sure what the underlying metrics are but this seems to back up my belief that we've been more unlucky than poor so far.

No need for all the panic.

Edit: seems to be based on expected goals. Goes against the common refrain on here that we are creating nothing.

Tweet

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I would love to use this stat as an argument, but 4 games is too small of a sample to use XG. Though it doesn’t mean that it’s interpretation outcome is wrong. We are creating chances and have no holes in defense.

Individual errors (random factor), ref decisions (random factor) and chance conversion (?) affecting the results

 

[Enigma_87]

Klopp was 8th in 2015-2016 season (after he took the team in October 2015). Liverpool looked a circus the whole season. Set pieces and “all the basics blah blah” require a lot of concentration on the pitch under floodlights in the real life. Unsettled or blending team is prone to mistakes. That circus happened not because Klopp didn’t have a style or diploma, but because he didn’t have a personnel and time. Everyone knew what style Klopp had in Dortmund. He developed it in Liverpool. But it required time. Frankly, it’s not “Klopp’s style”, it’s a philosophy implemented by a great thinker of the game at an ambitious club in the best league in history. Great times for football watchers.

Ole is developing a different, but as sensible pragmatic “style”. Yes he sits deeper after scoring. But the team tends to score first. We press and control possession, then score (important!) and then sit deeper and counter. Statistically, it’s an advantageous situation. Especially given our fast players like Rashford, Martial and James in front. That’s why Pogba is deep. A big difference from Mourinho is that we create chances (2 pens in 4 games, another one stonewall pen on Martial is not an anomaly: we have penetration). Mourinho, unfortunately, is dead as a coach (generational and personal factors, cannot mentally adapt). But “his” style is not because it’s a School in football. Very successful one, and can be very beautiful: SAF, Zidane and...Ole?

Again: Klopp was 8th in 2016 after 8 months at the helm. He was 4th in 2017, almost two full seasons, when United finished 2nd under Mourinho.

Give Ole time. If he fails he will be sacked. But calling for his head now is just ridiculous.

Again with the same old narrative. Klopp led them to EL final in their first season. His style was visible from day one there. Ole tinkered since he took over. We pressed high in the beginning, then we didn't, we played 4-3-3 at some time - then 4-2-3-1.

Klopp took a philosophy that was already proven at a different team that it can work - that's one of the differences right there. A major one.

Ole hasn't proven this so called "style" anywhere. He managed in Norway and relegated Cardiff. He has no past record of his plan working, that counts a lot when you give one of those managers time and the other - not.

Hoping to score first with a high press and possession is not a tactical style that you can't say pretty much any manager out there uses. If we don't score first then what? Or as already seen - no plan B, just hope you do.

I'm yet to hear in detail his supposed plan and style of play - it's a mixture of this and then and the end result is exactly that a mish mash of styles.

What is his preferred system and formation? What does his full backs supposed to do? What are his signature attacking moves? How does the defence line up? What substitutions or changes in formation he does in game when "we don't score first"?

Fact is - he doesn't have a recognized style and he doesn't have a proven track record of implementing his style in previous clubs - the comparison with Klopp ends there.

In terms of giving him time - 3 wins in the last 16. I take you think this is acceptable for a top side who hired a rookie manager without a track record?

Honestly if that was Moyes with the same record or pretty much any other manager at any other top club will he be out of a job by now?

 

[MrSingh2002]

Why did he let Fellaini and Herrera go without replacing them? Lukaku the same. Stupid move.

Why give Mata a new two year deal? Phil Jones the same, only to not play or sell him.

Too many stupid decisions will cost him. Woodward and the Glazers don't care about whether he can make a poor squad perform. If they don't perform he'll get sacked.

Ole should've been stronger to ensure midfield was bolstered at the very least.

 

[Tel074]

We sack Ole. Get some interim like Blanc or whoever can get more out of the current crop.

We sit down and appoint DoF.

We sit with the DoF and pick a style we want to play and a shortlist of candidates that fit that style.

We rank them as who is our best fit at the moment and start approaching them.

We appoint a good coach, with proven credentials (even if he isn't the very best), with progressive and modern thinking.

We give him budget to do the rebuild.

That is all pie in the sky plus its an another year down the line . Actually just read over what you wrote . A interim like blanc ? ( Because Blanc has proven himself ) then we get a DOF ? Because that's Oles fault we don't have one atm ?
Then we go again with a new manager who might be shocking and who again will not be backed properly then people like you this time next year say Jesus this guy is shit replace him .

Seriously I'm old enough to remember United being shit but I loved them the same as I loved us under fergies glory years . There is no quick fix and sacking managers makes us weaker every time we do it .
Pep would struggle under the current structures and honestly I appreciate your concerns but like most match going fans we look now this time we have to back the coach and allow him time to try and turn this mess around.

Sacking him is the worst thing we can possibly do

 

[El Jefe]

Ole like most of our players is punching above his weight. Quite a few of our won't get into the starting 11 of Everton, Leicester, Wolves and West Ham.

Its the same for Ole, he's a level or two below Marco Silva, Nuno, Rodgers and Pellegrini. He's a great guy and says the right stuff but truthfully he should be nowhere near being the Manutd manager.

 

[Enigma_87]

That is all pie in the sky plus its an another year down the line . Actually just read over what you wrote . A interim like blanc ? ( Because Blanc has proven himself ) then we get a DOF ? Because that's Oles fault we don't have one atm ?
Then we go again with a new manager who might be shocking and who again will not be backed properly then people like you this time next year say Jesus this guy is shit replace him .

Seriously I'm old enough to remember United being shit but I loved them the same as I loved us under fergies glory years . There is no quick fix and sacking managers makes us weaker every time we do it .
Pep would struggle under the current structures and honestly I appreciate your concerns but like most match going fans we look now this time we have to back the coach and allow him time to try and turn this mess around.

Sacking him is the worst thing we can possibly do

Well we currently we don't have a DoF. We should get one ASAP - this is something I've said like 5 years ago, that hasn't changed. Before Ole was appointed we were supposedly searching for one, yet after he was appointed it has become very quiet on that front.

You do realize there is difference when you give one manager time and you don't for one that can put us in a worse situation that he took over?

You do realize we're weaker than we were in March considering our form since then?

Having inept manager at helm will lead us to fall behind even further making the job tougher for the next in line - this is a very basic concept that I'm not sure why is so difficult to grasp for some.

Do you agree that if he keeps with that form we will be in much worse position than before he was appointed and generally that his appointment was yet another mistake by the board and the rebuild will be even tougher with another year without CL football?

 

[ThinkTank@Cafe]

Again with the same old narrative. Klopp led them to EL final in their first season. His style was visible from day one there. Ole tinkered since he took over. We pressed high in the beginning, then we didn't, we played 4-3-3 at some time - then 4-2-3-1.

Klopp took a philosophy that was already proven at a different team that it can work - that's one of the differences right there. A major one.

Ole hasn't proven this so called "style" anywhere. He managed in Norway and relegated Cardiff. He has no past record of his plan working, that counts a lot when you give one of those managers time and the other - not.

Hoping to score first with a high press and possession is not a tactical style that you can't say pretty much any manager out there uses. If we don't score first then what? Or as already seen - no plan B, just hope you do.

I'm yet to hear in detail his supposed plan and style of play - it's a mixture of this and then and the end result is exactly that a mish mash of styles.

What is his preferred system and formation? What does his full backs supposed to do? What are his signature attacking moves? How does the defence line up? What substitutions or changes in formation he does in game when "we don't score first"?

Fact is - he doesn't have a recognized style and he doesn't have a proven track record of implementing his style in previous clubs - the comparison with Klopp ends there.

In terms of giving him time - 3 wins in the last 16. I take you think this is acceptable for a top side who hired a rookie manager without a track record?

Honestly if that was Moyes with the same record or pretty much any other manager at any other top club will he be out of a job by now?

Watch games. Nobody is going to guess what you mean by style and answer your questions because you think they sound smart. Your position is built on perception that you understand the game better than Solskjær or Carrick who can’t do basic things. There’s no point of us, poor caftards to try to present any argument, you know better.

 

[Enigma_87]

Watch games. Nobody is going to guess what you mean by style and answer your questions because you think they sound smart. Your position is built on perception that you understand the game better than Solskjær or Carrick who can’t do basic things. There’s no point of us, poor caftards to try to present any argument, you know better.

Yes, thanks. This is always the answer I get when I ask what is Ole's style in detail.

The basic notion of why he should be given more time is based on that Klopp was given more time, yet when pointing out differences and proven track record you come back with that - irony.

 

[SteveW]

I would love to use this stat as an argument, but 4 games is too small of a sample to use XG. Though it doesn’t mean that it’s interpretation outcome is wrong. We are creating chances and have no holes in defense.

Individual errors (random factor), ref decisions (random factor) and chance conversion (?) affecting the results

But people can call for the managers head after 4 games?

We've been desperately unlucky imo. Missed pens, ridiculous refereeing, random individual errors. If just a couple of those things go our way nobody is complaining about our performances

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Ole like most of our players is punching above his weight. Quite a few of our won't get into the starting 11 of Everton, Leicester, Wolves and West Ham.

Its the same for Ole, he's a level or two below Marco Silva, Nuno, Rodgers and Pellegrini. He's a great guy and says the right stuff but truthfully he should be nowhere near being the Manutd manager.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[ThinkTank@Cafe]

My view is that Ole is consistent in his sayings and doings, and this is a good sign for me. I guess, By United way he means Ferguson football values. 1) solid defense, especially at set pieces. 2) fast transition, direct quick passing. Not afraid losing the ball. Don’t care about retaining the ball . 3) a lot of running on the wings. Wide attack. Wide pair of central forwards counts.
Arsenal game is a good example of a game against a top team. With lesser teams add pressing and aggressive player positioning, a lot of movement between the lines. We are now sorting defense with AWB and a CB. If interested, see my posts on Maguire transfer.

I believe, Ole did a good job of introducing players to his (=United, I’m happy to say that) values. Given the circumstances, it was an excellent introduction. After 6 years of shit football we are all cautious and focus on shortcomings. But if I was told in December that our second part of the season would happen as it did happen, I would consider it as God’s help.

This is one of my first posts on the forum back in July. I also commented on preseason games tactics whenever I watched them. Then, I realized that people just don’t care, they have an agenda and things to say. Tactical posts just drown in emotions.

No respect to the manager’s efforts, to his achievements, evolving team play, encouraging signings. Nobody pays attention. Everybody keep asking “difficult” questions.

He is not Ole Gunnar, our super sub whose Assasin reputation was based on the READING of the game at incredible speed. He is “a rookie manager”. Discussing tactical issues with the Master of the game like you is just putting a lot of efforts in vain. Your ego won’t let any sensible but opposite yo your opinion argument pass.

Your stance is based not on Ole s merit but on the fact that Ole is relatively unexperienced at the highest level. Basically, you have a pre-judice. There’s no judice until we see more. He will have time to show his worth, like it or not.

Hence, the irony.

 

[ThinkTank@Cafe]

Yes, thanks. This is always the answer I get when I ask what is Ole's style in detail.

The basic notion of why he should be given more time is based on that Klopp was given more time, yet when pointing out differences and proven track record you come back with that - irony.

The post above.

 

[Enigma_87]

This is one of my first posts on the forum back in July. I also commented on preseason games tactics whenever I watched them. Then, I realized that people just don’t care, they have an agenda and things to say. Tactical posts just drown in emotions.

No respect to the manager’s efforts, to his achievements, evolving team play, encouraging signings. Nobody pays attention. Everybody keep asking “difficult” questions.

He is not Ole Gunnar, our super sub whose Assasin reputation was based on the READING of the game at incredible speed. He is “a rookie manager”. Discussing tactical issues with the Master of the game like you is just putting a lot of efforts in vain. Your ego won’t let any sensible but opposite yo your opinion argument pass.

Your stance is based not on Ole s merit but on the fact that Ole is relatively unexperienced at the highest level. Basically, you have a pre-judice. There’s no judice until we see more. He will have time to show his worth, like it or not.

Hence, the irony.

1) solid defense, especially at set pieces.

- it's one of the facets that he is criticized by most who watch our games.

2) fast transition, direct quick passing. Not afraid losing the ball. Don’t care about retaining the ball

- we don't seem to show that when playing against teams that sit back.

3) a lot of running on the wings. Wide attack. Wide pair of central forwards counts.

- we're currently playing without a RW and I don't think we even have one in the squad.

My stance is what I've seen in the last 9 months and what I've seen at Cardiff. We will see more no doubt.

 

[ThinkTank@Cafe]

But people can call for the managers head after 4 games?

We've been desperately unlucky imo. Missed pens, ridiculous refereeing, random individual errors. If just a couple of those things go our way nobody is complaining about our performances

I just don’t understand that. Stupid analogies built on their perceptions of reality. We gave time to Moyes, he failed. Now we are giving time to Solksjaer and he will fail because we are joke of the club.

Critical thinking at its best.

 

[el3mel]

No one can be watching our games on week basis and think we have a clear style of play unless they have a big red tinted glass. We are clueless in front of any well packed defense and struggle to create clear cut chances from good plays.

 

[SteveW]

I just don’t understand that. Stupid analogies built on their perceptions of reality. We gave time to Moyes, he failed. Now we are giving time to Solksjaer and he will fail because we are joke of the club.

Critical thinking at its best.

I hear you. They've already chose a narrative and will do everything they can to confirm it now. Some people seem to gain some sort of satisfaction from being miserable cnuts.

We don't have enough good players to challenge this season. We're in a pretty precarious position to be totally honest. But we've had some encouraging performances with what we have and the signings have been fantastic. We just haven't got the rub of the green so far when it's come to the results. We could easily have won all 4 games if a couple of breaks had gone our way which would be hugely impressive with that group.

It's no time to be attacking the manager.

 

[momo83]

I m not convinced the board gave him what he asked for. He clearly said he expected the club to sign a replacement for lukaku. Instead we left Lukaku for the last minute and didn't get any replacement.
If he said he s happy with the squad... that means nothing.
Even if he s not happy he cannot say that publicly as that would be interpreted as lack of faith in the team.
A Certain mourinho did that last summer and we know how it ended

He knew Lukaku was going because he was the one who wanted Lukaku out. It makes more sense to buy a replacement and then sell. It’s not as if the sale of Lukaku on the last day caught Ole by surprised at fecked up all his plans. He was the one chasing Dybala and Eriksen, very akin to Moyes sending Woodward chasing the beginning of the rainbow for Bale and Fabregas

 

[rotherham_red]

Ole has been allowed to make wholesale change at the club. He said he was happy with squad while Poch made it clear the recruitment team are not doing what is required. Also United's net and total spend is higher than Tottenham this and every other season.

So did Poch when he first came to the club, turfing out the players who were collectively known among the Spurs fans, as "the bomb squad". It took him a season to get to grips with the team and embed the kids and Spurs fans themselves were unsure about him until his second season when he really started getting in to his groove.

In fact, there are a lot of parallels to Poch at Spurs in his first season, and Ole now. Unproven manager, who had perceived to have a favourite over a kid who was performing well with his few chances (for Lingard now, read Soldado then. And Kane was their Gomes)

 

[rotherham_red]

United’s worst start to a Premier League season for 28 years.

Couldn't agree more.

No it's not. We had just as bad a start in LvG's first season, and were actually worse after 5 games in 2007/8. The former, we reached top 4, and I don't need to tell you what happened in 2008...

 

[Seij]

It would be nice to have a run of games to try get a bit of momentum going but I look at our next 10 league games and not sure how they will pan out the way things have been going.
Leicester (H).
West Ham (A).
Arsenal (H).
Newcastle (A).
liverpool (H).
Norwich (A).
Bournemouth (A).
Brighton (H).
Sheffield Utd (A).
Villa (H).

Probably about 8-10 points from those games. We've been averaging less than 1 point per game since Ole got his full contract and I don't see that improving with our paper thin squad.

 

[rotherham_red]

No one can be watching our games on week basis and think we have a clear style of play unless they have a big red tinted glass. We are clueless in front of any well packed defense and struggle to create clear cut chances from good plays.

Is that more to do with quality of the players, or the tactics? Pep often looked like the second coming of LvG in his first season at City. Fast forward a season with better players in key positions he was back to being Pep the patron saint of football.

Looking at who he's bought, and the tremendous immediate impact they've all made, I think it's safe to say that Ole can spot a player, even when the majority of fans don't see it, so he's a bit more than the chancer you're claiming him to be.

 

[rotherham_red]

I hear you. They've already chose a narrative and will do everything they can to confirm it now. Some people seem to gain some sort of satisfaction from being miserable cnuts.

We don't have enough good players to challenge this season. We're in a pretty precarious position to be totally honest. But we've had some encouraging performances with what we have and the signings have been fantastic. We just haven't got the rub of the green so far when it's come to the results. We could easily have won all 4 games if a couple of breaks had gone our way which would be hugely impressive with that group.

It's no time to be attacking the manager.

Some people would just rather be right in an internet forum argument than actually be happy if their team wins if it goes against their hypothesis.

Pretty pathetic if I'm being honest.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

No it's not. We had just as bad a start in LvG's first season, and were actually worse after 5 games in 2007/8. The former, we reached top 4, and I don't need to tell you what happened in 2008...

Yeah sorry that got left there from a previous post I was going to post but then didn't. So when I replied to another post it was still there.

 

[Foxbatt]

To me it is more than if the board supported him or did not support him. He was all for selling Lukaku and Fellaini. In fact he got rid of him in January. Getting rid of Lukaku is not an issue but getting a replacement is the issue. Clubs do not buy players like at the pound shop. It is never instant cash transfer so getting a replacement for him before he goes would have been good management. Ole could have refused to sell Lukaku unless he gets a replacement.
Anyone decent would have been better than what is happening right now.

I also have issues about the basic coaching of the team. Forget about the style. The basics of defending is not in the team. It definitely is a coaching issue. We do not know how to defend against any set pieces. These should be practiced daily until mistakes are eliminated. Look at how our full backs defend against crosses. They turn their backs on the opposing player and also let them cross. These are fundamental mistakes that anyone can see yet it is not being corrected. Look at the goal Wolves scored against us. Why is there no United player putting pressure on the Wolves player? Why was he allowed to shoot from that range?

Look at our own set pieces. It is always beyond the far post to Maguire. Always. Either that or hit the first defender in front of the near post. No variation at all. No near post flicks at all. This is utter madness. I really wonder what do they do at practice? The players cannot make a decent pass, no decent free kicks, no decent movements off the ball. Not even a decent throw in. These things must be put on the manager's responsibility. Yes they press sometimes and when we get the ball, the players do not know what to do with it.
Ole has no clue when it does not go according to his plan. In reality it never goes according to plan. Only a fool would play Pogba and McTominay in a two man midfield. Especially when Pogba is the holding player. He is bound to lose possession in dangerous areas because the opposition can afford to press him closer to our box than theirs. This means when they have two players on Pogba he loses possession and they are closer to our goal. It does not matter much if they cannot get the ball of him too if he is so deep in our own half.
If he is closer to their own box, then they have to also put two players on him but by doing this they are reducing two players in midfield and making it easier for our midfield to deal with anything that may come. Furthermore, Pogba up forward can create more dangerous situations and also can shoot from long range. This is crazy so far this season to play with a two man midfield of Pogab and Scott.

 

[adman]

I haven't still got any answers from AntiOle brigade who they would see instead of Ole? And motivate their answers. All I see is sack, sack, sack, clueless, sack, sack. Play Gomes. Play Chong. Sack.

Oh, despite useless Ole and our useless team we are right now infront of Tottenham (better team and they have great Pochettino) and Chelsea (playing those supermegagreat young talents? How wierd? Or is it just so that Ole and us are better then some people think.

Give Ole time. Give Ole chance. Have patience.

Allegri?

 

[Tel074]

Well we currently we don't have a DoF. We should get one ASAP - this is something I've said like 5 years ago, that hasn't changed. Before Ole was appointed we were supposedly searching for one, yet after he was appointed it has become very quiet on that front.

You do realize there is difference when you give one manager time and you don't for one that can put us in a worse situation that he took over?

You do realize we're weaker than we were in March considering our form since then?

Having inept manager at helm will lead us to fall behind even further making the job tougher for the next in line - this is a very basic concept that I'm not sure why is so difficult to grasp for some.

Do you agree that if he keeps with that form we will be in much worse position than before he was appointed and generally that his appointment was yet another mistake by the board and the rebuild will be even tougher with another year without CL football?

Honestly I find your grammar and sentences really hard to follow . Apart from that what you are saying is today nonsense because we are so far behind we won't compete for top 4 . Was Mourinho inept ? Was LVG inept because they both managed massive clubs and did well .
Like I said earlier as long as us match going fans can see what's going on then im happy to give Ole time. It's the owners we need to get rid off not another manager and maybe sometime if.you can then come to a game a away game if possible I will even give you a free ticket and you can see how the fans feel .
We know it's shit but we will back Ole because it can the much worse than it was over the last 6 seasons . You can cry all you want on here but Ole will not be sacked this season ..

I agree with you that we have huge problems but it's not the coach it's the club as a whole . We don't have a DOF we have no structure that is the owners fault that's Woodward's fault it's 100% not Oles