Oh Samuel... Did Phelan loose a few pounds and works now as a physio too?
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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Exactly, that is the only thing left for them, they cant defend him because he is clueless, but go around the forum insulting people. Ignoring them is the best thing you can do.
who is that then? I don't think I've seen one United fan who doesn't see anything wrong, even under Fergie!
This type of patronising post really needs to die forever. I don't think anybody on here is 100% completely convinced, but a lot of us have seen enough so far to not rule out this becoming a success, and certainly feel that he has done enough up to now to deserve more time here.
Wait until Sunday night. They will all be making sure that there are fresh batteries in the keyboards. Even if we somehow beat them they'll find somethingPeople back in here whining after another win#shitfans
Nowhere have I implied that, I don't even know what your point is. Tactically I, like many others, have waited for something that doesn't resemble the under-dog counter attacking system. It's a method that relies on less coaching and more running.Yeah because all Ole gets payed millions for is to make a team selection and chat a bit with the Media
When Ole said we don't want to play tippy happy football, I don't think that's by choice. I think it's because he doesn't know how to coach it. We don't have to play like City or Barca, but he simply has to come up with something else. I know right now all he will do is try to sign better players and hope they dig him out of the mud.
You can only speak for yourself but there are others that inexplicably seem very convinced and I can't see why. I want to. I want to feel positive about where we're going but I just can't based on what I've seen. Not only that, my head is telling me that this could actually be the most damaging managerial period post Fergie because I think we'll stick with it for a few years. The amount of damage that can be done in that time makes me worried.
Inexplicably? I mean, how much do we know that's going on behind the scenes? Maybe he was ill? Maybe he was tired. He's 19. He can't just play every single game, it's not Football Manager.
I don’t think Ole has to win any trophies this season or next for his time here to be a success and while that might trigger a few in here I’m fine with it.
It’s been a cultural reset after Mourinho and Van Gaal and while we’ve been inconsistent, theres a lot of positives to take out of it to far.
The squad has been pruned massively and it looks like it’s going to be pruned further with Rojo, Jones, Shaw and Lingard reportedly with prices they can leave for.
We've got a core of very talented player at the right age all playing week in week out together. We’re not in the position where we need to sell 7 or 8 players and bring in 5 or 6 any more. With the squad we have, we can now focus our funds on 3 top quality signings in key areas and have a team capable of pushing the top two next season. Whether Ole is the man that can realise the potential in these players and profit from it I’m not sure but I think at the very worst he is going to leave a squad absolutely primed for another manager to take advantage and win some serious silverware
BS. He's putting his job / career on the line to do this. It's pretty clear that an infusion of experience would help us. But he thinks it's more important to blood the youngsters and let them develop. He's taking the time. It's very easy from your desk to say it's an easy thing to do. It's not. Not in the real world. He knows what he's going to get with them, ability, but inconsistency. Which will have the fans howling in this knee jerk world we live in.
I don't know if Ole will lead us to glory. I guess he probably won't, if I'm honest. Let's face it, way more managers fail, than work out. But he's at least doing things his way.
You're entitled to feel however you want to feel. I don't care. Its the 'anyone who backs him is deluded, romantic, brainwashed or (your words) blind faith posts that offend me and others. There's no need for it. Is it okay if I start calling Ole-out posters that they are gloryhunters and should go and support City? Probably not.
Couldn't agree more. Good post
Ah. I don't come on the forum too much at the moment, just too busy with life. But I do miss @Pexbo and his sane comments. It gives me faith.
We don’t get quality signings if we are not showing progression.. You said cultural reset. I don’t know what that means except for we wasnt a top team so we are trying a set of new players to see if they can make us a top team?
Anyway... History is always a good indicator of the future and I feel we should always looks at Liverpool as what to do and what not to do. Solskjær is as Roy Evans and Darglish V2 as they get. All appeased to the fans because of their history to the club and ‘cultural’ benefits (making goal nets red etc) But unless you are going to get a top manager who isn’t a Narcissist; we aren’t going nowhere fast.
To think he will take us back to the top is the epitome of blind hope, based on what we've seen. I want somebody to explain why they feel this way based on what they think they've seen. If you think he's just the right man to rebuild for now then you're kidding yourself if you think you'll happily watch us replace him with the next manager that will take us back to the top and build off whatever Ole leaves.
You can say what you want about Ole-out posters, I don't care. I know I want what's best for the club and that's all that matters. If Solskjaer had never played for us then there's no way he'd have the backing that he does from some people, because they're just kidding themselves.
Nonsense. He just feels he's safe in his job and has time on his hands thanks to what Woodward has been saying in public and of course what he told him too in private. Adding a heroic tone to him playing youngesters has to be the newest bizarre thing I read regarding defending him. As I said previously no doubt even if he gets by the end of the season and a new manager comes and improves us his supporters will still be here saying it was Ole laying the foundation for him or something.
This reads as some Trump'esque gaslighting.
Why this comment come on the row of 2 good wins I have no idea, is it some kind of powerplay?
What exactly is your point about Ole? I'm happy to have an factual argument with you since it seems to be lacking from your perspective.
Mediocre performance but a crucial result. FA Cup is our only shot at a trophy this season which might save Ole's neck if we finish outside the top 4. Not going to slate him for last night, he did what was needed.
I personally judge Ole by the progress we make under him just like any other manager should be judged. So are we making progress under him?
Let's say before Ole took over Mourinho had us at level 1. Ole has come in now but we can argue the performances and results are still a bit similar. However he brought in a lot of positivity needed, promoted youth, made three good signings, planned for the future, the players are backing him, cleared the deadwood and improved players. The performances and the results are not fantastic and some will say there's not much difference from our previous manager but because of all the positives I've mentioned, Ole has taken us to level 5 from level 1 Mourinho left us in. Progress.
Ole now has us at level 5 and this has been our level for a while now. What we need to further progress to a higher level is to improve the performance and improve the results but this hasn't happened. So in a way we've actually stagnated and stuck on level 5. So how do we improve performances and results and progress from level 5? Some believe this will happen when we sign new players, some believe this will happen under a new manager.
The best thing for me is to give Ole this season while he is backed this window. We sign new players this window that are meant to improve our performances and results. If Ole gets backed and the performance is still the same as well as the results then we're still stuck on level 5 and there is no progress (which is what we should judge Ole by) so Ole has to be sacked. The new manager that should be appointed should be someone that has similar ideas and philosophy to Ole's and can improve our performances as well as results. So since he has similar idea's to Ole we would still be on level 5 rather than starting over again and he has the ability to take us even higher which will be progress for us
However if Ole is backed this January and the performances and results improve then we move up to a higher level from level 5 and Ole has made progress again. Then I would keep him.
Simple as that for me. I see this as a win win situation if the board has any sense. Back Ole this January and if he makes progress with that backing then he can continue his work. If no progress is made then sack him and get a manager with a similar idea and philosophy that can work with the little progress Ole made and has the ability to take us to the next level
Let's say before Ole took over Mourinho had us at level 1. Ole has come in now but we can argue the performances and results are still a bit similar. However he brought in a lot of positivity needed, promoted youth, made three good signings, planned for the future, the players are backing him, cleared the deadwood and improved players. The performances and the results are not fantastic and some will say there's not much difference from our previous manager but because of all the positives I've mentioned, Ole has taken us to level 5 from level 1 Mourinho left us in. Progress.
Ole now has us at level 5 and this has been our level for a while now. What we need to further progress to a higher level is to improve the performance and improve the results but this hasn't happened. So in a way we've actually stagnated and stuck on level 5. So how do we improve performances and results and progress from level 5? Some believe this will happen when we sign new players, some believe this will happen under a new manager.
The best thing for me is to give Ole this season while he is backed this window. We sign new players this window that are meant to improve our performances and results. If Ole gets backed and the performance is still the same as well as the results then we're still stuck on level 5 and there is no progress (which is what we should judge Ole by) so Ole has to be sacked. The new manager that should be appointed should be someone that has similar ideas and philosophy to Ole's and can improve our performances as well as results. So since he has similar idea's to Ole we would still be on level 5 rather than starting over again and he has the ability to take us even higher which will be progress for us
However if Ole is backed this January and the performances and results improve then we move up to a higher level from level 5 and Ole has made progress again. Then I would keep him.
Simple as that for me. I see this as a win win situation if the board has any sense. Back Ole this January and if he makes progress with that backing then he can continue his work. If no progress is made then sack him and get a manager with a similar idea and philosophy that can work with the little progress Ole made and has the ability to take us to the next level
Good post and it’s true. Feels like we’re on the right path for the first time in nearly 7 years. People seem to have it set in their minds that he’s a poor manager, and nothing will ever change it. Whatever. I really don’t think we’re that far off, if we get the right players in during the summer I think we’re going to be very good next year.
Again, these are all just your own opinions though. The reasons why people are still backing him have been written on here a thousand times, and nothing has changed. Our record since the Spurs game early December is a vast improvement on what we've seen before, so why would we even think of getting rid of a manager that is improving, that is bringing the kids through and looks to have firm targets in mind to keep that improvement going for the rest of the season and next? There is simply not enough justification for it, and that's why you don't see any hints from the club that his job is in jeopardy.
There is far more than 'blind hope' to base this one, but I know you won't be convinced and I don't even want to try. I'll carry on kidding myself for now.
Cultural reset, haha. Have you ever heard that from any other club? It's just the biggest load of crap that i have ever heard.
Ole should never have been hired, simple as. Yes he is getting rid of the dross at the club but any decent manager could have done that. The problems don't lie with Ole per se but he is part of it in that he is not good enough to be managing us. You say he could leave us primed but he could also stunt the growth of the players/squad at the same time. So to say he will leave us "absolutely primed" is as bad as your cultural reset analogy. Find it hilarious.
You know he feels safe? I don't.
Even if he does, he's not that naive to think it will always stay that way. But he's doing things his way. To say "anyone could do it" is rubbish.
I dunno if anyone has added a heroic tone to him playing youngsters. It's just what he thinks is right. He has certainly cleared out a good bit of deadwood, his signings have been shrewd, and he has improved a number of players in his time here. The squad truly is bad, and we're missing the one player for basically the entire season, who can actually pick a pass to unlock tight defences, which are the games we've struggled in.
Dejan Lovren has explained how Klopp changed the culture at the club to start the journey towards being European champions and Premier League pacesetters
Guardiola stepped out of the shadows of coaching Barcelona B to re-instil a culture that had been prevalent when Johan Cruyff - his mentor - had been at the helm.
Maybe he's that naive and believes everything Woodward is telling him, how do you not know? Even an experienced as LvG was that stupid and kept challenging reporters that he would get his 3rd season and wouldn't be sacked.
Nothing extraordinary about him playing youngesters. LvG did it as well and his reign was a crap one. The squad now is in a far worse state than what he inherited considering at this time everyone wanted the manager out and believed the squad was good enough to play good enough football and win things and were just being held back by the manager, 1 year later and a full summer market and most of these people (yes the same ones) are trying to convince themselves and everyone else that the squad is crap and that's the maximum we can achieve with it. Where is that progress then when in fact the best football played under him was in his first 3 months under the squad he originally inherited and after a summer market and 150m spent we look absolutely nowhere near his first 3 months. That's called regression not progress.
Agreed. 100%. I watched the game last night, and Wolves were unlucky not to get a result. We didn't play well, but we got a result, which we all will take. But let's stop dressing things up, when it's obvious what is happening. This is an average manager, creating an average mindset, with average results.
Few players are actually excelling under his management. It's great seeing good young players.. but that is hardly unique to Manchester United. Liverpool have bought young players and have made them vastly better players (look at their full-backs).
Don't get me wrong, Greenwood is a lovely footballer, he excites me and he makes us look a different team in his own way. Rashford and McTominay have improved, markedly, for sure. Daniel James is steady. Our left-back is playing ok... nothing more than that, and there is nothing wrong with that. But playing young players (who do not challenge you...) is no great managerial feat. Compare to that Wolves squad, and where many of them came from, and how they now regularly outplay us. We are happy to beat them, look at the comments after the game! We're relieved! And Wolves were not that great at all! And they still played better football, more structured football than we did, and it isn't the first time. Our play was reactive, almost playing on the counter, at home, versus Wolves! How is that progress!
Be honest about OGS. This is a massive, massive club that deserves the very, very best. Not mediocre performances.
You haven't seen the articles where LVG and Herrerra bashes the culture at United? "Football is not the most important thing at United"?
If you have got that kind of problem at an organisation, you have got to fix it or you'll be fecked. That is what the cultural reboot is about. To make a culture where playing football and winning is the focus of everyone. That no other big club has had the need to do this (they have, but they haven't been as vocal about it) speaks volumes about the mismanagement of the club since SAF retired.
I don't know because ... um, I don't know what another human who I have never met is thinking? Do you know? You've chatted to him. I'd imagine Ole is clever enough to look at Woody's previous. Moyes? Massive contract, didn't last a year. Has spoken about how he'd do things differently if he'd known he'd be sacked so quick. Louis, expected longer, also cut. Just my intuition, but it's not a fact, unlike how you're claiming it to be fact that he feels safe in his job. Course, maybe you do actually know him?
LVG did it by firing in players all over the shop, most of whom weren't ready. As evidenced by the fact, most are gone. Ole is bringing them in slowly and it's paying dividends in my opinion. Is the squad much worse than last year? I don't think so, personally. Up front, we're worse off because Lukaku wasn't replaced. But he wanted to go. So off with him.
A lot of people are Smalling lovers on here, I'm not, although I'd have kept him ahead of Jones / Rojo etc. Again, he wanted assurances of game time which couldn't be given, so he was shipped off.
Herrera I guess? We could do with him. Again, he left of his own volition.
I know people expect United to just be able to buy 10 players in a window, but it doesn't work like that. He's proven to be careful about his signings so far. And he's done well, in my opinion. Each of his signings has improved us.
I agree we played the best football in his first few months, but that was clearly the new manager bump. And you'd Pogba, who on his day can do incredible things, actually interested and available. That's a big loss.
If you don't know why you are making assumptions that he's risking his career and job by depending on youngsters? My point is you don't know if Woodward told him he will get sacked if he doesn't deliver results. Maybe he's told his he's safe that season and we will see the next one. Maybe he told him he will get a 3 years play. Maybe..maybe..maybe. A lot of possible assumptions which are actually more logical than this "risking his career" one.
I think pocc will take over next season. He has just turned the barca gig down. I think ole is there to bring through the young kids, to find out who is good enough. I think woody always wanted pocc and as things have developed after appointing ole he will be looking into getting him in, if it isn't already a done deal.
I guarantee you care a whole lot what people might think about your opinions, why would you even post on an online forum in the first place, where the entire point is meaning exchange. I mean, I sure do care what people think about my ramblings. Not in the terms of my well being, but its always nice to have people who either like what you write, or happen to agree with you, and on the other end it can just be good fun to actually argue with someone if its constructive.
What I've picked up primarily from the Ole out crowd is that he's to blame entirely when it goes south. That is the stance that's being portrayed by most albeit probably not all. It doesn't really matter the relative strength of the squad, nor who is available in any given game. The reserve team to a prime top XI, they should all perform at the same level. Any argument against that is just making up excuses, and any other manager would make player x perform better for <usually no reason given>.
When we win the argument is usually that the team did not play well enough for some subjective reason, the subs were wrong for yet another subjective reason, and a lot of hindsight wisdom. Either that, or there just isn't a lot of discussion. Winning games do not produce as many arguments against the manager as losing does, unsurprisingly.
Obviously the dumbest times to argue for the removal of the manager is when we string together victories. You're not going to get a lot of sympathetic ears and the timing is just odd. Complain when we win and you'll generally be perceived as a whiner. It just makes it harder to get your argument across.
We're a year in now and we have some relevant data to lean on.
First a few facts that aren't up for dispute.
A) We ARE rebuilding. Everyone agrees this is a several-transfer-windows strategy. The board signed off on this when hiring Ole. This comes at the expense of realistic title challenges in the EPL in 19/20. The purpose is to give the team a structure to build around. Rashford, Martial, James, AWB, Greenwood, Williams, McTominay, Tuanzebe (Garner,Gomes*potentially) are all young enough to be in the club and perform at champion level for the next decade. Not one of those players are the finished product yet. They will improve, some of them expenentially, others so-so.
B) The "buying for the sake of buying" has stopped. LVG and Mourinho spent fatasy money on transfers and go us nearly nowhere. The purchase of James, Maguire and AWB represents a significant change in transfer policy, with the addition of teenage talents in the U18s
C) Breakout seasons: Rashford, James, Greenwood, Williams, McTominay. Those are 5 players who are having undisputable breakout seasons. Williams joins the party late, Greenwood has 9 goals on the season, Rashford is within shot of the EPL top scorer rank if he can string together a couple doubles. Tuanzebe has the potential to usurp Lindelöf next season. Williams have relegated Shaw to the bench for now, although still a young kid and will undoubtedly be eased into the life of a top footballer, just like Greenwood is being.
D) Player Loyalty. The important bit here is that the players themselves are entirely behind the manager. Why this is important is because whereas under Lvg and Mourinho it was just some angry dude they played for, the players have a lot of respect for Ole. Being showcased by the players going to the boards and giving the man their vote of confidence. You can have opinions about the players all you want, but a group that can unite around something is a lot stronger than a series of individuals in a longevity project.
E) The average age of the squad is the youngest in the EPL frequently. See point A).
F) Big game manager. Our record against the big 6 teams is.. best of any of of the big 6 teams. Right now this team is the best in the world on the counter. We are lacking a certain playertype in midfield and thus are forced to rely on this against stronger opposition that have those brilliant individualists we lack., like KDB, Mané, Salah etc.
G) I watch every game we play. I've agreed with 3 losses this season. The draw matches should have been won a few of them if not for the individual mistakes of some players that end up costing us a goal. Unfortunately the big chunks of draws came when Rashford was struggling to hit a barn door.
H) Tactical acumen. We saw this last night latest. Ole gives Mata some instructions and shortly after James is through on goal. We frequently change style of play or man positioning, but it's not often noticed since everyone are so busy admiring the opposition. Man City got run over at Ethiad, Liverpool were neutralized at Old Trafford and were lucky to win a point, double wins at Stamford Brindge. There's so many positives to take with us here.
Fact of the matter is that we've lacked Paul Pogba for most of the season, a fact that apparently should have no bearing on how this performs. With Both Pogba and McTominay out injured, we are down to the bare bones in our midfield, and still that will not matter if we lose to liverpool on Sunday. For reasons and excuses.
Some Ole out supporters might believe they want what's best for the club, sure. But the only thing you're saying is that you want Poch. And then what? What exactly is Pochettino going to do with this group of players that is so much better?
My biggest gripe with Ole out supporters is that I personally don't believe you have any patience with a process that should be apparent will take a season or two. We've had one transfer window to change the squad, it simply takes more than that.
Poch have stated previously that he will never manage Barcelona since he has managed Espanyol. But I'm sure the club has been in contact with Poch in the eventuality, why wouldn't they have been.
These latest Pochettino rumours have probably been leaked by the club because they know it means Ole will outsmart Klopp at the weekend and then go on his longest winning run since he was caretaker. Because Sod’s Law.
How many players did he change? I think his point is the culture change is a philosophy change nothing more. Jose changed the culture at Chelsea however it didn’t involve him ripping anything apart.
Barcelona just fired Valverde because it didn't fit its culture. And when Barcelona looks for a manager, 80% of their criteria have nothing to do with football or tactics. Culture is what makes United unique and that is something we should value to keep having players who have the right mind and attitude.
And there is nothing to suggest he is impeding the growth of the players. If anything, it's the contrary for most of them.
Yeah it's called having a "philosophy" which is a term i can just about handle. Modern football and all it's stupid connotations. Utd don't need a cultural reboot. All we need is proper modernisation of our structures. Competent CEO, DOF and Head Coach. Main issue at Utd is our CEO handing out stupid contracts and overruling managers on signings etc. That's how we ended up with shite players on huge contracts.
He wasn't sacked because of anything other than these facts:
1. His record in CL is bad
2. Failed to get most out of big signings, Greiezmann, Dembele etc
3. They havent played well this season
So can you stop with the cultural crap.
It's a documented fact so why don't you just google yourself? "Barcelona FC culture manager" should give enough data point about that not being a crap.
More recently, there was an article on why Setien was chosen, and how Pep was chosen, and it was all based on the culture, nothing to do with football tactics purely.
Here, I will quote one for you. It's free.
"Barcelona put their culture at the centre of everything they do, from their everyday behaviours right the way up to selecting the next manager. In 2008, results hadn’t been going their way and Barcelona needed to make a change at the top. The club’s hierarchy had set out nine criteria by which prospective candidates were judged. The club’s culture lay at the heart of these nine criteria. From an outsider’s point of view Jose Mourinho, after his recent success at Chelsea was a shoe-in for the job. He could certainly bring success to Barca but this would require compromising the club’s culture as he fell down on a number of the nine criteria. Barcelona eventually opted for Pep Guardiola, an ex Barca player with very limited managerial experience to take charge of the club as he was deemed to be a better cultural fit, truly understanding what is important to the club."
https://hyperionsearch.co.uk/company-culture-the-fc-barcelona-way/
Yes, football management is so easy a random poster can do it
It's this mindset that has caused literally all of United's most laughable decisions post Fergie.
What we actually need, is an owner or manager who wants, passionately, to instill a NEW CULTURE at the club!
After all - that's actually what Fergie did when he took over...
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