Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[JPB]

Ole has made one big mistake, and that is playing Lindelof next to Maguire instead of Smalling. I'm pretty confident that if Smalling would have started our first couple of games we would be pretty high up the table now. Oh and the missed penalties. But that's just bad luck.

Loaning Smalling to AS Roma is a monumental feck up. We should try Jones or Tuanzebe in the next match. Cause a central defender who can't head a ball is absolutely useless.

 

[JustW]

I'm definitely not at the stage where I want the club to look at another manager. He has got rid of so much of the dross and brought in genuinely valuable additions to the team. Also, he clearly isn't blind to under performing players judging by his benching of Lingard yesterday.

I know on the playing side things need to improve but I personally don't find us unwatchable anymore. The team looks more coherent and are clearly trying to evolve into a different style. Those two penalties go in against Wolves and Palace and the narrative would be something like 'looking better but still a work in progress', when, in my opinion, that's actually where we're at regardless of those results.

Absolutely deserves another few transfer windows.

Definitely right, the fact that he benched Lingard just shows me he is not as stubborn as our previous managers. He certainly react sooner than later. Hopefully that will be the case with the tactic, he needs to either go back to 4-3-3 or play Pogba in 10 and put Matic back in the team in his 4-2-3-1. Also something that irritates me most with managers is when they use players out of position and then we blame those players for poor performance. Pereira is not a winger, Pogba can play but is not a deep lying playmaker, certainly not in front of the defense (lose possession too many times) and Greenwood is not a winger.

 

[ZenMaster Coltrane]

Actually try to read my post and maybe you'll realise I never implied he shouldn't be sacked.
I'm just skeptical that the next manager will be any different than the other four.
The club will still lack the most essential thing: owners with sporting ambitions.

I agree that a root and branch approach to fixing the club necessitates new owners but this structural demise has been happening since the latter years of Ferguson's tenure. It just happened that SAF man managed his way to titles post 2009 against competition and managers who are inferior to what is currently on offer in the EPL today. Going against Klopp, Pep, and Poch and mid table teams with better managers is a totally different task than Wenger, Mancini, Pellegrini et. al.

What is clear is that the board are not proponents of a fast rebuild (i.e. 4/5+ players each summer and using the Jan window). The flaw in this slow rebuild (led by inefficient negotiators) is that that the 1 or 2 top players at the club become utterly disillusioned. The fact that it took this long to jettison Smalling and Darmian (with Young, Jones, Mata sill in the wings); that they're unwilling/too cheap to bring in a DOF...tells you all you need to know.

The key is player turnover, not money spent. City and Liverpool overhauled their squad but at this pace...United will buy 1 CMF, struggle to get 1 winger and probably fail at getting a goal scorer up top. So when Pogba goes...that's at least 4 MFs that need to come in if you were serious about competing for the league within 2-3 years (not including this year).

The alternative is hoping through trial and error that EW (who I give about a 5% chance to get a big decision right) somehow gets Poch, a scenario which would only materialize if the manager was desperate to come...because the persuasive powers of this board are nil. For me, I'll take a manager who actually is a top class manager working under a bad structure (a la Benitez at NEW) over a Norwegian league manager working under a bad structure.

 

[JK-27]

Only 3 games won since being made permanent manager.

Only 1 clean sheet in the last 19 games.

These are not the stats of a manager who can get a top 4 finish, let alone win anything.

 

[Andycoleno9]

It is working wonders.
Now take your top red badge and go receive a pat on the back from the Glazers.

Top red and Glazer's fan at the same time? Yeah, logic is strong in you

 

[Idxomer]

He had made countless of bad decisions regarding formations and selections the last few months, the worst has to be playing Pogba in a 2 man midfield alongside McTominay.

Anyone who does that needs his coaching licences revoked.

 

[SaintMuppet]

You’re spot on in almost everything, especially the bold parts and like many others has mention our results in the PL since the game against Arsenal is chocking. There are no excuses.

Nobody cares if the manager makes a few mistakes her and there but when bad decisions are repeated over and over again then it’s hard to not overlook his involvements in our long run of bad results.

Continue to use a 2-man midfield including Pogba when even a blind can see that this isn’t working.

Repeatedly play Lingard and Pereira as starters when it’s clear as daylight that they are not good enough.

Selling Lukaku and send Sanchez on loan without any decent replacement. That’s criminal.

Selling Fellaini and lose Herrera on a free without any decent replacement. Stupid beyond belief.

Start the new season with McTominay as one of our core central player. No criticism against Scott but he isn’t experienced and talented enough to patrol our midfield with Pogba behind him. One attacking midfielder together with a natural b2b player to be up against 433 or 451 formations. Baffling and direct unintelligent.

Start the season with no clear game plan except press high up and relying on improved fitness. Lost for words.

I really like Ole Gunnar, we are both from similar culture backgrounds so I’m familiar with his approach but frankly he’s not god enough as manager at this level. He’s much more suited to be a DoF. Diplomatic and positive and not afraid to take bold decisions. Let him finish this season then make a change.

Agreed. Looking at Ole he does not even vibe as a manager, he looks a little lost tbh which is concerning.

I would give him longer than he has had tbh. I think we should take a look at the whole thing at xmas and not before. If we won the next 3 games people would have an entirely different view in things. Changes need to be made for the right reasons and not emotionally.

My concern is why the things highlighted in the post I quoted above were allowed to happen??? If average Joe can see it then professional football people surely must too. I suspect something is up or very amiss at United that we are not seeing yet, it’s the only reason such amateur decisions have been made...

 

[Keefy18]

I think we have to disagree on pretty much everything mate. Also the understanding that you seem to be talking about has cost us 5 points in the last two games alone.

What's cost us is individual player errors, not managerial mistakes.

Is it Ole's fault De Gea's form has dropped off a cliff?
Is it Ole's fault Lindelof has forgotten how to clear aerial attacks?

I think you didn’t even read half of the things I’ve already commented multiple times that I pointed what a better manager could improve and do. You seem to be too blinded with the supposed 5 years project whilst it’s pretty much clear to anyone that results will gradually become worse with this short squad.

I read your comments just fine, your advocating for a more experienced manager who has won things, we had that. Their names were LVG & Jose and both failed.

It's not as simple as you seem to suggest to just hire the manager with the best CV. There's far more to the day to day running of a club than you understand clearly.

I’ll let you believe that Ole hype and we can revisit those positives as the season advances.

What hype? We've instant gratification primadonas tearing him apart and are too daft to fecking see we've problems that run far deeper than just the manager.

I haven’t for once said that it will magically happen but keep plucking words out of thin air.

Well, actually you have.

Your demanding the club be ran like Chelsea or worse yet Real in that unless the manager has us playing like Barca circa 09 then they are failing and should be sacked.

 

[Andersonson]

Ole out. Too many elementary mistakes and very poor game management. Never sniffs danger till we fall behind. I was begging for victor to be replaced 10 minutes before they equalized and was begging for additional midfielder against wolves before they equalized. We should be doing a lot better with Maguire and WB but instead we loan out Smalling. Degea should be benched too as well as a Rashford

No doubt you're the better manager. After we wrongfully sacked Mourinho we must now give his project time. It will take years. Be patient

 

[Keefy18]

Based on your views and understanding, I wouldn't trust you to build a Lego house.

The feelings mutual, I'd not have you responsible for making a bowl of corn flakes, you'd burn the house down.

Still you have to admit 3 in 17 is shocking, and simply not anywhere near good enough for us. He needs a run of wins starting now.

Certainly not good enough and Ole will know this.

Do you think he's happy with it and thinking that's United standard? Of course not.

He's walked into a club that's had at least 6-7 years of complete mismanagement from all involved pretty much.

Yet 4 games into his first full season we've fecktards saying its solely on Ole?

It's beyond mind boggling stupid.

 

[Jim Beam]

The feelings mutual, I'd not have you responsible for making a bowl of corn flakes, you'd burn the house down.

You know what, am following you from now on. For amusement purposes.

 

[superdonk]

I don't understand how real fans can be as shortsighted and toxic on here, even if occasionally write that X is shit.

The rebuild is clearly underway, dross shipped off, all the signings have been successful so far, and our xPTS (9.34) is 2nd in the league just behind City (10.04).

 

[Keefy18]

You know what, am following you from now on. For amusement purposes.

Creepy and weird, but go for it!

 

[K13]

I said if he worked on his work rate and movement he would be a top player. I just said I didn’t see him improving on that but if he does then why would I have any problem praising him?

Ok fair enough, that makes sense.

 

[Mainoldo]

He’s just not a very good manger. Individual errors or not. We’ve got poor tactics and yet again another manager with an incomplete philosophy and poor player development.

He won’t last a season. Can bank on it.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

You missed my main point, with players that aren't good enough it's irrelevant who is in charge in my opinion. Which is one thing that Solskjaer has shown signs of addressing with the 3 summer signings who have been our best players so far.

I'm not buying it. Palace, Wolves and Soton executed their plans and stopped us from scoring more than a solitary goal. Yet we fail, in every game, to execute ours. Do the aforementioned teams have better players than us? Not in the slightest. But many have convinved themselves otherwise - the same who were crying for Jose to be sacked because he was incapable of getting something out a really talented set of players.

Also Ole was such a fool to get rid of Fellaini and Lukaku. Sanchez is fair but the other two I don't agree with.

 

[royboy16]

Has he resigned yet?

Buckle yourself in,I think he will get the full season.

 

[elnorte]

You know what, am following you from now on. For amusement purposes.

Here's a picture

Spoiler

 

[MrSingh2002]

Only 3 games won since being made permanent manager.

Only 1 clean sheet in the last 19 games.

These are not the stats of a manager who can get a top 4 finish, let alone win anything.

That's pretty damning. A top manager gets alot more than that out of our squad.

Ole sanctioned letting players go that he thought we didn't need. Looks like he was wrong at this point. Should have bought more players to replace the outgoings.

We all knew we needed one or two midfielders but we didn't pay up for Fernandes. And now the club and the manager look stupid.

 

[El Zoido]

The results are not reflecting the performances. Really can’t fathom anyone wanting him out already. Our fanbase is so toxic it’s depressing. I’m more depressed seeing the hate towards our manager than I am about our performances. I hope he gets next season because I’m absolutely convinced we’re going to come good.

 

[Enigma_87]

What's cost us is individual player errors, not managerial mistakes.

Is it Ole's fault De Gea's form has dropped off a cliff?
Is it Ole's fault Lindelof has forgotten how to clear aerial attacks?

When you can’t keep a clean sheet more than once in 19 games then that surely have to point to the manager not being able to organise the defence.

We don’t know how to defend set pieces. I posted a screen on how we have 5 defenders being occupied by a single opposition player and he still scored with three of them pointing in different directions in Lindelof/Magure thread.

During the time DDG form dropped off a cliff what did he do? Keep playing him.

There is clearly an issue who goes for aerial battles and who is marking who. Seems just like the penalties this is decided by the players on the pitch. Zero managerial instructions. But of course you are ok with that and that’s progressive and professional approach. As I’ve said you are too blinded to see those things.

I read your comments just fine, your advocating for a more experienced manager who has won things, we had that. Their names were LVG & Jose and both failed.

It's not as simple as you seem to suggest to just hire the manager with the best CV. There's far more to the day to day running of a club than you understand clearly.

I said proven manager. I said multiple times that even ten Hag is ok. Do you really read what I post?

What hype? We've instant gratification primadonas tearing him apart and are too daft to fecking see we've problems that run far deeper than just the manager.

No. We need a better coach and manager than what can prove to be our worst appointment of all time. He relegated Cardiff and as soon his time is done here I doubt any PL team will touch him with a barge pole. He might be good DoF but as a manager he’s average at best mate.

Go on - prove me his acumen - how he manages in game, his subs, his tactical acumen, how he sets up, how he counters the opposition strengths, etc?

Well, actually you have.

Your demanding the club be ran like Chelsea or worse yet Real in that unless the manager has us playing like Barca circa 09 then they are failing and should be sacked.

No, I haven’t. I said that they aren’t doing too badly and the results show it. I’ll be perfectly ok with giving the right manager time but as said on multiple occasions- Ole is not him.

 

[beingshe7don]

These same players have been getting shocking results for 6 years . Yes not all have been there but as a group over the years we simply aren't good enough . We cant keep blaming managers . We missed 2 pens which would have got us more points is that the managers fault as well

God, what's with the excuses with people on this caf? It was pretty much the same team that recorded 8 away wins consecutively when he was caretaker manager. Can't be blaming managers? Are you serious? At the end of the day, this is pretty much a business. When the company is not functioning properly, management takes the fall for it for not 'MANAGING'.

Ole needs to be blamed for
1. Playing Pogba in a much deeper role than required
2. Poor substitutions and poor timing of substitutions
3. Poor tactical responses when we conceded a goal
4. Not being certain in terms of having a proper predetermined penalty taker
5. Switching to a 4-2-3-1 when our success has been 4-3-3

 

[Omahahaha]

I think you’re misunderstanding my point. Clearly, the club is going through a rebuild. A top manager like Jose would not want to plan for 5 or 6 years from now - hence why he signed players like Zlatan, Mhikitaryan, Sanchez Matic etc...

Jose is undoubtedly a far superior tactician to Ole but Jose lost his patience and let’s face it, was the team he left better than the team he inherited? Probably not.

Hopefully despite being an inferior tactician, Ole will leave this squad in a far better position than he found it

Okay, I get your point. But our squad was already young then and needed some experience.
It's good to have a balance between quality players in their prime, younger talents and some
more experienced players.

I think Ole/the board is going about this in a weird way when it comes to releasing players without replacing them. Our squad is painfully weak/thin at the moment, and it will take some quality signings to fix that.

The problem with that is that quality signings are not that likely to want to come here if we continue our current relegation form.

At some point with a long enough bad run he becomes a meme, the second coming of Moyes etc.
That's not helpful at all when it comes to acquiring the players respect and attracting new signings.

I think the squad Jose left was better than our current squad.

 

[beingshe7don]

Man City with their billions and billions worth of talent, world class manager lost to Palace at home in December, 3-2.

Guess what, s*it happens... it happens more so when you've a bunch of poorer players in comparison to City as well. We don't have their abundance of talent and our team is not a... well, a team! We are not well drilled and the cogs in the machine currently don't all fit.

It takes time to get to that level, its not instantaneous.

What and 6 months of working with the players directly is enough?

Haha.... good job.... on your comeback.

These were the same group of players that registered 8 away wins consecutively, so I don't get how these players became poor within a span of 6 months.

 

[hn4manunited]

I must say I am starting to understand when Jose said that getting us second was his greatest achievement, and then why he downed tools the following season, I hated having him here, and don't want him anywhere near us again, but we are just so far removed from been a top team it's crazy, and now we have Ole exposing the brutal reality of where we we actually are.

The best manager in the world couldn't be expected to achieve much with this team, and he would need a team of elite footballing people, loads of time, and a massive amount of cash to claw us back to the top, we have a sentimental novice as a manager, backed up by Phelan and Carrick, with a non footballing man running the rule over the transfers, all at a time when the owners of our club have decided to have a cost cutting exercise, and to reduce transfer outgoings, I'm just struggling to see a way out for us.

I agree.

I’m unsure as to what most fans expect?

If Jose taking this very average squad to second place and winning a couple of trophies wasn’t good enough to gain any credit...what are fans realistically expecting Ole to achieve with this relatively similar squad which in many fans’ opinions (not my opinion) have seen an upgrade in defensive qualities, relatively similar midfield (no one rated Fellaini, Herrera anyway), better situation upfront without an unfit lukaku, and misfiring sanchez.

Do people think Ole can take us back to second place at a minimum to match what his predecessor achieved and win some trophies? How should we measure Ole’s performance? Will it be excitement through how we play but less so about results? Will it be about results but less so about how we play? Will it be about promoting youth playing time but less so about results? Will it be about taking a slow process of rebuilding and not worry about results at the moment?

You can’t have it all with a relatively inexperienced manager with inexperienced helpers, and an average squad. We do not have a top 4 squad. Some might even argue we don’t have a top 6 squad. We may not even have a manager capable of taking us into top 4 with a top 4 squad. But time will tell with Ole whether he can turn things around. He will need time and this team and club will need patience and time. If you don’t have patience, the answer is a serial winner like Jose and start buying players who can start winning stuff right now.

Unfortunately, we are in this cycle where we will need a few years for every manager to assess if they will be able to do the job. If these managers get backed season after season, we will see the outcome after several years, if they are not backed, we will be in the perpetual cycle of chopping and changing our squad with a cycling of managers.

Our biggest problem in my opinion is our acting DoF Ed. If people still don’t see that, they need to wake up. As long as he continues to make decisions on who we should and shouldn’t buy to rebuild or build on to the squad, we will forever have mixed results. We have seen it window after window.

 

[Mainoldo]

I agree.

I’m unsure as to what most fans expect?

If Jose taking this very average squad to second place and winning a couple of trophies wasn’t good enough to gain any credit...what are fans realistically expecting Ole to achieve with this relatively similar squad which in many fans’ opinions (not my opinion) have seen an upgrade in defensive qualities, relatively similar midfield (no one rated Fellaini, Herrera anyway), better situation upfront without an unfit lukaku, and misfiring sanchez.

Do people think Ole can take us back to second place at a minimum to match what his predecessor achieved and win some trophies? How should we measure Ole’s performance? Will it be excitement through how we play but less so about results? Will it be about results but less so about how we play? Will it be about promoting youth playing time but less so about results? Will it be about taking a slow process of rebuilding and not worry about results at the moment?

You can’t have it all with a relatively inexperienced manager with inexperienced helpers, and an average squad. We do not have a top 4 squad. Some might even argue we don’t have a top 6 squad. We may not even have a manager capable of taking us into top 4 with a top 4 squad. But time will tell with Ole whether he can turn things around. He will need time and this team and club will need patience and time. If you don’t have patience, the answer is a serial winner like Jose and start buying players who can start winning stuff right now.

Unfortunately, we are in this cycle where we will need a few years for every manager to assess if they will be able to do the job. If these managers get backed season after season, we will see the outcome after several years, if they are not backed, we will be in the perpetual cycle of chopping and changing our squad with a cycling of managers.

Our biggest problem in my opinion is our acting DoF Ed. If people still don’t see that, they need to wake up. As long as he continues to make decisions on who we should and shouldn’t buy to rebuild or build on to the squad, we will forever have mixed results. We have seen it window after window.

Who’s had time at a big club to finish outside of the top 4 two seasons running and expect to remain in a job?

 

[Foxbatt]

Honestly Ole has no clue. Others have wised up to his tactics. If Old was honest he should resign and say Woodward is not supporting him and walk away with his reputation intact.
I really can't see Woodward being a fool. I can't see him accepting us to fail on the pitch. He knows as everyone else that success on the pitch brings in the money.

 

[SpaceAttacker]

So I checked the xG, xPTS etc points table from last season.

It had Manchester City far ahead of Liverpool, far ahead of Chelsea in third, with United and Tottenham on equal points in fourth.

Brighton, Fulham and Huddersfield relegated.

So 3/4, almost 4/4 spot on for the top end and 2/3 correct for the bottom end of the table.

This suggests to me, that there is enough of a connection for it to be considered statistically significant.

For the curious, the xPTS points table this season stands as:

Manchester City 10.07
Manchester United 9.34
Liverpool 7.69
Chelsea 6.39


This, is of course over just four matches as opposed to a whole season, but it may point towards a season where we improve on last year, at least in terms of performances.

And once you're outperforming your opponents more often than not, it may be possible to get in a player or two who can fix whatever issue is holding your results back.

I know the overall mood is gloomy this weekend so I thought I'd share.

 

[Keefy18]

When you can’t keep a clean sheet more than once in 19 games then that surely have to point to the manager not being able to organise the defence.

We don’t know how to defend set pieces. I posted a screen on how we have 5 defenders being occupied by a single opposition player and he still scored with three of them pointing in different directions in Lindelof/Magure thread.

Two words, Individual errors! You claim I don't read, I've already pointed out the errors.

I repeat:
Is it Ole's fault De Gea's form has dropped off a cliff?
Is it Ole's fault Lindelof has forgotten how to clear aerial attacks?

During the time DDG form dropped off a cliff what did he do? Keep playing him.

Even with the drop in form, he is still our best keeper. Why in the hell would he drop him?

There is clearly an issue who goes for aerial battles and who is marking who. Seems just like the penalties this is decided by the players on the pitch. Zero managerial instructions. But of course you are ok with that and that’s progressive and professional approach. As I’ve said you are too blinded to see those things.

Seriously can the modern day player not do a single feckin thing for themselves at all in anyway on the pitch? Do they need their hands held and the game paused after every pass to check with the manager what is right and wrong?

The penalty stuff is complete an utter Bollicks! It's a mountain out of a mole hill and only at United does it get blown up in rags like the sun and standard of our modern "supporter" they buy into it hook, line and sinker.

Why are you absolving ALL Blame of the players errors and passing the buck to Ole?

These exact same issues were happening with Fergie, Moyes, LVG & Jose... But in all your infinite wisdom, its solely Ole's fault?

No. We need a better coach and manager than what can prove to be our worst appointment of all time.

Why do you keep spouting this lie? I posted a few pages back that it factually was Bullshit but your running with a made up win percentage from the sun or some other rag.

Ole's current win % is 51.52% after a whopping 33 games in charge! Sure its his team and its all his fault so yeah he's ready for the chop.
http://www.mufcinfo.com/manupag/managers/mangers_pages/solskjaer_ole-gunnar.html

Former Man United managers with a worse win record?

• Ron Atkinson - 50% - http://www.mufcinfo.com/manupag/managers/mangers_pages/atkinson_ron.html
• Dave Sexton - 40.30% - http://www.mufcinfo.com/manupag/managers/mangers_pages/sexton_dave.html
• Tommy Doherty - 46.93% - http://www.mufcinfo.com/manupag/managers/mangers_pages/docherty_thomas.html
• Frank O Farrell - 37.04% - http://www.mufcinfo.com/manupag/managers/mangers_pages/o'farrell_frank.html
• Wilf McGuinness - 36.36% - http://www.mufcinfo.com/manupag/managers/mangers_pages/mcguinness_wilfred.html
• Scott Duncan - 39.15% - http://www.mufcinfo.com/manupag/managers/mangers_pages/duncan_scott.html

And yes.. Even our Godfather, Sir Matt Busby had 50.53% win rate - http://www.mufcinfo.com/manupag/managers/mangers_pages/busby_matt.html

But.. It's a daft stat cause for many of those they were here for years.

Go on - prove me his acumen - how he manages in game, his subs, his tactical acumen, how he sets up, how he counters the opposition strengths, etc?

I'm happy with him cause I can see a clear plan being rolled out but am intelligent and more importantly...patient enough to understand that it won't be brilliant suddenly and only 33 games, especially when he's battling at least 7 years of poor management previously.

I like that he's shown the balls and his fearlessness in cutting big names to rebuild the squad. He's scouted (read the article in The Athletic about our 3 signings this summer) 3 players brilliantly and addressed 3 key areas that were in dire need of improvements. But of course to you he's clueless and tactically inept.

He clearly wants to play a mix of counter attacking football in some games and others with a high press (huge improvement in this area).

Does he have all the players needed currently to role out those tactics to perfection? No.
Is that solely his fault? No.

Just stop for one second and think...

When he took over in December last, the vast majority of our supporters were in agreement that the season was a complete write off, top 4 was gone and we weren't winning anything. So, should he be blamed for missing top 4? No.

Lets be honest he was no doubt told that he was to judge the players from Dec to May and in the summer the work began in rebuilding. If top 4 was achieved it would be a bonus.

In reality, his work began with the summer transfer window and it was a pretty good transfer window in many respects. He absolutely cleared the deadwood out and addressed 3 key areas. Have we still got faults, yes we definitely do but given time I trust he'll address those areas also just like he did with RB, CB & WF.

Again, talking in reality here... he's a whopping 4... FOUR games into his first full season in charge and cause it isn't instantly brilliant and we've dropped some points he has to go?

 

[Keefy18]

Haha.... good job.... on your comeback.

These were the same group of players that registered 8 away wins consecutively, so I don't get how these players became poor within a span of 6 months.

Hasn't similar situations happened with LVG and Jose?

We've never consistently performed in the post Fergie era and by an large the same players have remained.

None of us can predict what kind of performance we'll get from half to half, never mind game to game.

There was probably a mix of new manager bounce when Ole arrived and in turn injuries hurt the clubs performance and results.

 

[red4ever 79]

9th in the table. 7 points off the top already and we have played two si*te teams. I think we will finish around 7th this season.

 

[OrcaFat]

If Klopp, Pep or any of a dozen other recently “successful” managers were here instead of Ole, they may have got us more points than Ole has. But for the longer term I bet he is as good, for us, as any of them. A rare few managers have been able to win immediately but that type of success doesn’t last. And the managers don’t last.

Many disagree but I am happier with a United man. His record is limited but Ole has shown promise and, at Molde, an ability to develop a club in his image and to win. Norwegian league may be Mickey Mouse, but it’s arguably better to win there, beating what’s in front of you, than come 2nd or worse in bigger leagues.

It annoys me when people claim Ole must be a poor coach because we do not win or, worse, because certain players do not play well. Players do not always do what they are told or execute the required skills on demand. No one blamed the manager when Gascoigne or Rooney played everywhere but where instructed, or when Forlan went 100 (or whatever) games without scoring. Player improvement takes time and is largely down to how much untapped potential they have (which is invisible, unquantifiable and unpredictable).

Based on past actions of Ed etc, Ole is very unlikely to be sacked and so we’ll have a better chance to understand his qualities (or lack of) next year.

 

[beingshe7don]

Hasn't similar situations happened with LVG and Jose?

We've never consistently performed in the post Fergie era and by an large the same players have remained.

None of us can predict what kind of performance we'll get from half to half, never mind game to game.

There was probably a mix of new manager bounce when Ole arrived and in turn injuries hurt the clubs performance and results.

There's a huge difference. LVG and Jose's downfall were because they lost the dressing room. Unless Ole lost the dressing room as well, I can't see why there's such a dramatic downturn of the results.

 

[El Zoido]

So I checked the xG, xPTS etc points table from last season.

It had Manchester City far ahead of Liverpool, far ahead of Chelsea in third, with United and Tottenham on equal points in fourth.

Brighton, Fulham and Huddersfield relegated.

So 3/4, almost 4/4 spot on for the top end and 2/3 correct for the bottom end of the table.

This suggests to me, that there is enough of a connection for it to be considered statistically significant.

For the curious, the xPTS points table this season stands as:

Manchester City 10.07
Manchester United 9.34
Liverpool 7.69
Chelsea 6.39


This, is of course over just four matches as opposed to a whole season, but it may point towards a season where we improve on last year, at least in terms of performances.

And once you're outperforming your opponents more often than not, it may be possible to get in a player or two who can fix whatever issue is holding your results back.

I know the overall mood is gloomy this weekend so I thought I'd share.

Interesting, and it’s clear to see we’ve played well so far this season. If we scored the two penalties we’d probably be on at least 9 points now. This reaction towards Ole over the last 24 hours has been predictable and awful.

 

[U-N-I-T-E-D]

No, making him DOF would be like converting Lingard to full back.
If he is not good enough, get rid.

Not necessarily, we could currently be playing Lingard at right back and need to find his correct role. Ironically I think Lingard's best role is a t Everton but you know what I mean

 

[Le Red]

Top red and Glazer's fan at the same time? Yeah, logic is strong in you

They don't need to be their fans as long as they are doing their bidding.
Patiently waiting for another manager to be appointed, building false hopes, cheering like a good lad and then realising it was in vain, then blaming the manager and hoping Woodward will deliver a master stroke.
Rinse and repeat, forever.
The match going fans have the voice and the presence. They represent the community. And yet they are unable to organise and take measures against the true culprits.

 

[Amerifan]

Can everyone on this antiOle agenda give some suggestions who they want to replace Ole Gunnar Solskjaer with? And motivate. It is easy to give critism but when it come to your own solutions then you are little bit quieter.

I guess some would say Pochettino. Now I am not saying that he is bad at all. Actually very good. But people who are against Solskjaer because of the points and team doesn't see that Tottenham is actually behind us. And you can argue that Tottenham has better team then us. Looking at players. Does that mean that Solskjaer is better then Pochettino?

Some say he has no experience to guide a Premier League team. Well let's see. Steve Bruce? Roy Hodgson? Manuel Pellegrini? Should we take them? Teams are under us.

Some say he comes from a smal club? True. But tell me a manager that hasn't started from somewhere. No manager is born at big club manager chair. Looking at managers there are not lot of them being in big teams before their Premier League career. From Portsmouth to Swansea. From Porto to Dortmund II.

What do we have more? Well we have lots of other managers in Premier League. Young and old. Brittish or from abroad. Nothing that gives you any indication how its team will go if you dont give them chance.

I'm not against any manager att all. Everyone of them is good and with luck and good players they would do well. Give Solskjaer time. There is progress and it will go up and down but as long as we are going forward he should get our support.

From the Ole Out! bunch of noise you’d think Pep and Klopp are knocking on our door and we’re telling them to go away. For some reason I doubt the best managers are sitting by their phones awaiting our call. If we do replace Ole at some point, I wonder who can guarantee immediate success more than Jose. He got us a 2nd and he’s no longer here...

 

[Majima]

So I checked the xG, xPTS etc points table from last season.

It had Manchester City far ahead of Liverpool, far ahead of Chelsea in third, with United and Tottenham on equal points in fourth.

Brighton, Fulham and Huddersfield relegated.

So 3/4, almost 4/4 spot on for the top end and 2/3 correct for the bottom end of the table.

This suggests to me, that there is enough of a connection for it to be considered statistically significant.

For the curious, the xPTS points table this season stands as:

Manchester City 10.07
Manchester United 9.34
Liverpool 7.69
Chelsea 6.39


This, is of course over just four matches as opposed to a whole season, but it may point towards a season where we improve on last year, at least in terms of performances.

And once you're outperforming your opponents more often than not, it may be possible to get in a player or two who can fix whatever issue is holding your results back.

I know the overall mood is gloomy this weekend so I thought I'd share.

It is interesting to consider. Thanks for sharing.

What I would like to know is if anyone was following these statistics last season and if they are an accurate measure of performance?

As it's only a tiny sample size at the moment.

 

[Enigma_87]

Two words, Individual errors! You claim I don't read, I've already pointed out the errors.

I repeat:
Is it Ole's fault De Gea's form has dropped off a cliff?
Is it Ole's fault Lindelof has forgotten how to clear aerial attacks?



Even with the drop in form, he is still our best keeper. Why in the hell would he drop him?



Seriously can the modern day player not do a single feckin thing for themselves at all in anyway on the pitch? Do they need their hands held and the game paused after every pass to check with the manager what is right and wrong?

The penalty stuff is complete an utter Bollicks! It's a mountain out of a mole hill and only at United does it get blown up in rags like the sun and standard of our modern "supporter" they buy into it hook, line and sinker.

Why are you absolving ALL Blame of the players errors and passing the buck to Ole?

These exact same issues were happening with Fergie, Moyes, LVG & Jose... But in all your infinite wisdom, its solely Ole's fault?




Why do you keep spouting this lie? I posted a few pages back that it factually was Bullshit but your running with a made up win percentage from the sun or some other rag.

Ole's current win % is 51.52% after a whopping 33 games in charge! Sure its his team and its all his fault so yeah he's ready for the chop.
http://www.mufcinfo.com/manupag/managers/mangers_pages/solskjaer_ole-gunnar.html

Former Man United managers with a worse win record?

• Ron Atkinson - 50% - http://www.mufcinfo.com/manupag/managers/mangers_pages/atkinson_ron.html
• Dave Sexton - 40.30% - http://www.mufcinfo.com/manupag/managers/mangers_pages/sexton_dave.html
• Tommy Doherty - 46.93% - http://www.mufcinfo.com/manupag/managers/mangers_pages/docherty_thomas.html
• Frank O Farrell - 37.04% - http://www.mufcinfo.com/manupag/managers/mangers_pages/o'farrell_frank.html
• Wilf McGuinness - 36.36% - http://www.mufcinfo.com/manupag/managers/mangers_pages/mcguinness_wilfred.html
• Scott Duncan - 39.15% - http://www.mufcinfo.com/manupag/managers/mangers_pages/duncan_scott.html

And yes.. Even our Godfather, Sir Matt Busby had 50.53% win rate - http://www.mufcinfo.com/manupag/managers/mangers_pages/busby_matt.html

But.. It's a daft stat cause for many of those they were here for years.



I'm happy with him cause I can see a clear plan being rolled out but am intelligent and more importantly...patient enough to understand that it won't be brilliant suddenly and only 33 games, especially when he's battling at least 7 years of poor management previously.

I like that he's shown the balls and his fearlessness in cutting big names to rebuild the squad. He's scouted (read the article in The Athletic about our 3 signings this summer) 3 players brilliantly and addressed 3 key areas that were in dire need of improvements. But of course to you he's clueless and tactically inept.

He clearly wants to play a mix of counter attacking football in some games and others with a high press (huge improvement in this area).

Does he have all the players needed currently to role out those tactics to perfection? No.
Is that solely his fault? No.

Just stop for one second and think...

When he took over in December last, the vast majority of our supporters were in agreement that the season was a complete write off, top 4 was gone and we weren't winning anything. So, should he be blamed for missing top 4? No.

Lets be honest he was no doubt told that he was to judge the players from Dec to May and in the summer the work began in rebuilding. If top 4 was achieved it would be a bonus.

In reality, his work began with the summer transfer window and it was a pretty good transfer window in many respects. He absolutely cleared the deadwood out and addressed 3 key areas. Have we still got faults, yes we definitely do but given time I trust he'll address those areas also just like he did with RB, CB & WF.

Again, talking in reality here... he's a whopping 4... FOUR games into his first full season in charge and cause it isn't instantly brilliant and we've dropped some points he has to go?

First of all I said he is the worst appointment of all time and that means as permanent manager. Since then he is on 19%. Go check your stats if you will.

Second of all it’s useless to argue with you as you seem to have blind faith in him. Let’s revisit this thread and those stats in one month time to see if you will be in the same mind, ok?

And third of all it’s useless to debate actual parts of the game - tactics, instructions and subs since you keep replying with stats and that players should be doing what they are doing, give time and other excuses. All the successful managers have a clear game plan since day one. What Ole plan is - counter attacking and leave it there with added blind faith.

 

[Keefy18]

There's a huge difference. LVG and Jose's downfall were because they lost the dressing room. Unless Ole lost the dressing room as well, I can't see why there's such a dramatic downturn of the results.

Really?

We've a mix in there still of under performing players, naive youth and just poor players. Add in poor managerial decisions and poor recruitment and bad decisions from the board, you've got yourself an old fashioned cluster fcuk!

Just to give you an idea that similar form has happened in the last 6 seasons

LVG 1st Season

• In his opening 11 games he recorded just 3 wins, with 4 losses and 3 draws. That opening run involved a debut loss to Swansea at home, drew with Sunderland, Smashed by MK Dons, Smashed by Leicester and draws with Burnley and WBA.
• We then went on to win 7 of the next 10 games, beating Arsenal & Liverpool and drew with Spurs.
• We finished the season by winning 5 of our last 11, but lost 4.
• Basically a season of 50/50, which is identical to what Ole has seen so far himself as well pretty much if you look at this win %.

LVG 2nd Season

• Started quite well by only losing 3 times (won 10) in opening 15 games.
• But we all remember the winter where our form fell off a cliff, our next 15 games saw us only win 4, lost 4 and drew 7
• We then bounced back again in the new year, our final 15 games saw us only lose 3 times, winning 9 and drawing 3.

Do I really need to do the same for Jose's tenure?

Remember Jose's lauded "unbeaten run" of twenty something games, which included like 13 or something draws in it?

Regardless of the manager this kind of form has been the one consistent.