Robbie Boy
Full Member
Very few men have the minerals to manage Victor Lindelof twice.
Very few men have the minerals to manage Victor Lindelof twice.
Jose finished 6th, 2nd, then imploded (on course for 6th) when Ole took over. Ole finished 6th, then 3rd, then 2nd, then imploded (on course for 8th). Ole very clearly improved the team over 2.5 years, quite a long time. Is Ange piggybacking off Jose now? Did Nuno do it wrong earlier?Ole was great for a while at the start when he was piggybacking off Mourinhos work coupled with his "vibes". Trouble was, the more time went on and he imposed his will on the team the worse we got. Then, like all our teams/players we reached that inflection point where the players decided they didn't want to back the manager and it all fell apart. Rinse and repeat.
But he got results with the “dire midfield” of fred and Mctominay and got us to 3rd and 2nd. And eth the tactical mastermind couldn’t get them firing. Who is the better manager here then, one who can get mediocre players to up their game or one who can make world class players look shite(Casemiro)Now I don't know if this is entirely Ole's fault, but when you're stuck with McTominay and Fred as your most frequent midfield pair and don't sign any central midfielders then you are just looking for trouble
Ole was great for a while at the start when he was piggybacking off Mourinhos work coupled with his "vibes". Trouble was, the more time went on and he imposed his will on the team the worse we got. Then, like all our teams/players we reached that inflection point where the players decided they didn't want to back the manager and it all fell apart. Rinse and repeat.
This is absolute bull imo. Mourinho was playing peak allardyce football with the players he had. You can say he piggybacked on mourinho’s work in the half season that he managed after mourinho was sacked. After that he had two seasons where we finished 3rd and 2nd consecutively while playing champagne football with players who are deemed to be not fit for the job under the current tactical mastermind.This this this
What use is press triggers and statistical dominance when we concede 7 goals without reply against our bitter rivals. At least Ole’s team was never spanked so badly by any of our main rivals. What about our statistics against top 6 teams under eth?? We haven’t won against one of our top 6 rivsls in ages. What use is tactics when you turn up against your rivals and its a given that you will not win.We had no tactics then, it was counter attack and rely on individual brilliance. We had no press triggers and no system per say. We sat deep and tried to hit back quickly, that's it.
And under Ten Hag it might be shite, but there is certainly intent to carry out a plan and its very obvious what that plan is. It's also reflected in some of the stats.
I know I am apparently supposed to despise Ole and wish him the worst, and hope that he never enjoys life and only bad things happen to him, but I honestly perceive his time here as pretty much the only post Fergie era where I actually enjoyed watching us play.This was pure Ole ball - imagine this now, people would be creaming themselves
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The best ever Norwegian team won 2 games against the worst ever Swedish team. Good jobb. But sweden has and will always be better than Norway. Norway is to Sweden what Wales is to England. You always been the little brother who looked up to Sweden. A few years here and there won't change that fact.They aren't. We beat them home and away recently. Our clubs regularly trash theirs in Europe. They are busted flush.
Their 51 % rule means the fans vote against anything modern. Not getting with the times means you get left behind. Money goes elsewhere. The pros are that their domestic league is evenly balanced and competitive every year plus the supporter culture is great. But outside of their borders their football won't be relevant again anytime soon.
If I’m generous I’m gonna say this is more than a bit disingenuous, considering:But he got results with the “dire midfield” of fred and Mctominay and got us to 3rd and 2nd. And eth the tactical mastermind couldn’t get them firing. Who is the better manager here then, one who can get mediocre players to up their game or one who can make world class players look shite(Casemiro)
“Champagne football”This is absolute bull imo. Mourinho was playing peak allardyce football with the players he had. You can say he piggybacked on mourinho’s work in the half season that he managed after mourinho was sacked. After that he had two seasons where we finished 3rd and 2nd consecutively while playing champagne football with players who are deemed to be not fit for the job under the current tactical mastermind.
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And pogba looked shite under Ragnick and under his current manager at juventus when he hasn’t been a sick note or on a PED induced suspension. Bit strange to hold ole responsible for it.If I’m generous I’m gonna say this is more than a bit disingenuous, considering:
a) Casemiro looked every bit World Class last year, and has barely played a handful of games this season.
b) Pogba & Matic both made over 100 appearances for Ole.
c) Pogba looked utter shite underu Ole.
“Champagne football”
For all the love you give Ole, his best ever season brought us 74 points, ETH beat that in his first season (75), and Ole brought us zero trophies, ETH also beat that last season.
ETH is also doing a fair bit better in the league this season than Ole was when he was sacked.
Now don’t get me wrong here, ETH is fighting for his life and if he can’t improve he’ll be gone, but him struggling this season doesn’t make Ole’s shite reign any better.
What do empty stadiums have to do with it? Were we the only team playing in empty stadiums? Only team advantaged by it? Only team not disadvantaged by it?We absolutely bossed teams in empty stadiums.
A fair bit betterETH is also doing a fair bit better in the league this season than Ole was when he was sacked.
If he comes (looking unlikely now) ill back him for sure! Maybe a national team suits him better. Yes, Mellberg and i think Thelin. Wasn't very happy with the Mellberg rumours but Thelin is an interesting manager but dont think he is interested atm.I think he is very good manager. He was just thrown under the bus by players. If he gets the job he will not be any miracle man. Sweden lacks players apart from 4-5 that can perform on high level. Top targets turning down? The only one who did that was Mellberg. No bigger names already having job are ever going to take a job where there is less money considering what they get in other teams.
Recruitment have been circus and those in charge being incompetent wouldn't surprise me. If I'm not wrong it is former Prime Minister that is head of their FA now.
That’s one of the strangest excuses given by ole’s detractors. It is pure cope as otherwise they will have to accept tgat he was a decent manager.What do empty stadiums have to do with it? Were we the only team playing in empty stadiums? Only team advantaged by it? Only team not disadvantaged by it?
Bit of a BS point. Ole had no way near the injuries that ETH and still got thumped by worse teams, be it Everton or relegation battlingWatford 4-0 or 4-1.What use is press triggers and statistical dominance when we concede 7 goals without reply against our bitter rivals. At least Ole’s team was never spanked so badly by any of our main rivals. What about our statistics against top 6 teams under eth?? We haven’t won against one of our top 6 rivsls in ages. What use is tactics when you turn up against your rivals and its a given that you will not win.
What’s with thus empty stadium jibe. It wasn’t like he was the only manager playing in empty stadiums.Bit of a BS point. Ole had no way near the injuries that ETH and still got thumped by worse teams, be it Everton or relegation battlingWatford 4-0 or 4-1.
The XG in his thumpings to city and Liverpool were worse if I recall and there was no real structure in the approach outside of sit back and hope.
You can analyse a subset of stats and try and vindicate Ole but in the grand picture he wasn't a coach, he had an extended purple patch in empty stadiums that made him look half decent, but he was found out quite quickly as not having a progressive style, not having tactical appreciation of how management takes place, not having any discipline and failing to keep players fresh and clear of injuries. Our longest trophy drought was under his watch and he set any new manager back years. He is comfortably the worst manager we've had in 30+ years.
May I remind you, we have lost more games than Bournemouth and Wolves this season, both with new managers and have scored less than every team not named Burnley (1 goal away) and Sheffield United. This is as bad as it has been. Ole at least has some fantastic history with the club, ETH is a nobody for United.Bit of a BS point. Ole had no way near the injuries that ETH and still got thumped by worse teams, be it Everton or relegation battlingWatford 4-0 or 4-1.
The XG in his thumpings to city and Liverpool were worse if I recall and there was no real structure in the approach outside of sit back and hope.
You can analyse a subset of stats and try and vindicate Ole but in the grand picture he wasn't a coach, he had an extended purple patch in empty stadiums that made him look half decent, but he was found out quite quickly as not having a progressive style, not having tactical appreciation of how management takes place, not having any discipline and failing to keep players fresh and clear of injuries. Our longest trophy drought was under his watch and he set any new manager back years. He is comfortably the worst manager we've had in 30+ years.
We also won a cup and finished with more points than Ole ever did last season. And we also have a terrible injury situation for half a season. Ole managed to look like a clown manager for a prolonged period with without the same level of injuries.May I remind you, we have lost more games than Bournemouth and Wolves this season, both with new managers and have scored less than every team not named Burnley (1 goal away) and Sheffield United. This is as bad as it has been. Ole at least has some fantastic history with the club, ETH is a nobody for United.
Ole was a manager who didn't rate tactics and had nothing outside of a counter. He didn't even know how to set up a press.What’s with thus empty stadium jibe. It wasn’t like he was the only manager playing in empty stadiums.
So somehow ole is a bad manager for not being able to keep players from being injured but ETH is a master manager despite us having a worse injury record under him. That is some hypocrisy.
What use is having a tactically rigid approach if you can’t win a match against top 6 rivals to save your life. If anything i would say that ole was a better tactician who adjusted his tactics according to the opposition and got a result against them more times than not. The amount of times we came back from losing positions to win or draw under ole points to the fact that ole was a better tactician than many give him credit for.
Ole: 1.41 points per gameA fair bit better
Ole: 8th place: 12 games, 5-2-5, 17 points, 20-21 (-1)
ETH: 9th place: 20 games, 10-1-9, 31 points, 22-27 (-5)
Not sure I agree but everyone has their own opinion I guess.
Dude Sweden are barely page 1 on the coefficients. You're not relevant at this stage. No idea why you're comparing yourself to EnglandThe best ever Norwegian team won 2 games against the worst ever Swedish team. Good jobb. But sweden has and will always be better than Norway. Norway is to Sweden what Wales is to England. You always been the little brother who looked up to Sweden. A few years here and there won't change that fact.
In the long run Sweden will always be a better football nation,as we have been in the past. Just like England will always be a better football nation than Wales.
That famous "Norwegian inferiority complex" is really strong in you. I didn't think that existed anymore but here you are.
Like feck he isGood luck to Ole if he joins Sweden. I never got the hate for him, he's a club legend and the best manager we've had since SAF.
Yeah I was also surprised by that part, thought both season were similar except Ole did OK in CL while ETH got marginally more wins in the league. But the bar for ETH is much lower for some reason.A fair bit better
Ole: 8th place: 12 games, 5-2-5, 17 points, 20-21 (-1)
ETH: 9th place: 20 games, 10-1-9, 31 points, 22-27 (-5)
Also CL since you conveniently left that part out:
Ole: 1st place: 4 games, 2-1-1, 7 points, 8-7 (+1)
ETH: 4th place: 6 games, 1-1-4, 5 points, 12-15 (-3) - in a group with Copenhagen and Galatasaray!
Standards were way higher back then.
Didn't we finish 6th that year and had to qualify through the europa cup?Like feck he is
One manager had 2 full seasons, the first earning a Europa League and league cup, the second our only post-SAF 80+ points finish.
The other managed zero trophies and his best points haul was 74.
I will never get this argument. You do realize every team was playing in empty stadiums, they didn't just become empty when Utd came to town. Ole was rightfully sacked due to the poor performances in his final season but I don't get the need to downplay his overall stint.We absolutely bossed teams in empty stadiums. Breathtaking, incredible…
Ole will never manage United again, thank goodness for that.
At least we had players capable of individual brilliance....better than having to constantly watch Antony perform circus tricks down the touchline and then give the ball away.We had no tactics then, it was counter attack and rely on individual brilliance. We had no press triggers and no system per say. We sat deep and tried to hit back quickly, that's it.
And under Ten Hag it might be shite, but there is certainly intent to carry out a plan and its very obvious what that plan is. It's also reflected in some of the stats.
Is this the Sweden in League C or is there a different Sweden? Bit weird to be talking about Sweden around all these League B teams.The best ever Norwegian team won 2 games against the worst ever Swedish team. Good jobb. But sweden has and will always be better than Norway. Norway is to Sweden what Wales is to England. You always been the little brother who looked up to Sweden. A few years here and there won't change that fact.
In the long run Sweden will always be a better football nation,as we have been in the past. Just like England will always be a better football nation than Wales.
That famous "Norwegian inferiority complex" is really strong in you. I didn't think that existed anymore but here you are.
Ole finished 3rd and 2nd in his two full seasons. Was sacked in November when he was 8th in the league and top of CL group.Ole: 1.41 points per game
ETH: 1.55 points per game
Standard weren’t better at all, Ole was shite for 3 years, managing zero trophies and his best points finish was 74 points. Standards were shite.
If EtH drops to 1.41 (losing the next two), he’ll be fired I’m sure.
Ole's time here was far, far from perfect but personally I appreciated plenty of things in that time:
-After LVG boring possession and Mourinho's bus (added to his toxic, miserably attitude) Ole was a breath of fresh air. He allowed the team more room to attack and score. I felt connected with the team the most I've been since SAF.
-Our average position after SAF (removing Ole's time) is around 5th. We were the 3rd best team in his first season as interim/full time manager (from December to May). 3rd in his first full season, and 2nd the following one. He got results above our average level under the Glazers for 2'5 years. Even if nothing extraordinary it could have been worse.
-125 goals in his second full season, the most in 15 years. Some freaks like 9-0 against Soton (even with 10 men), 9 goals against Roma in the EL, 5 against Leipzig (CL semifinalist the previous season) etc.
-At this point (January in his second full season) we were leading the Premier League, not 9th and 3 points away from 11th and on negative GD.
-Plenty of comebacks and ability to change a game from the bench.
-We were competitive away from home. The unbeaten record lasted a year and a half. If it was easy because of Covid and no fans, where is this record for the rest of the teams?
-The only manager who has beaten Pep more times than he was beaten by him (Ancelotti too maybe?). It doesn't mean he's better, obviously. But he's no fool either.
-Got Mourinho sacked after beating him in London which made me laugh a lot.
-Team spirit. He made these bastards likeable at some point.
-Went deep in many tournaments, but he lacked something to capitalize. A top manager would have won something once we reached those positions, but overall he wasn't the catastrophic manager many pretend.
Nobody can't tell me beating City 3 times in a season with these players, winning twice at Paris, the first win at Stamford Bridge in 5 years (in the cup during his interim period, playing with a diamond formation that nobody expected) the goals, the records, 3rd-3rd-2nd etc. it's just luck and vibes.
Ole, Carrick and McKenna are smart guys, and they were a good team despite the lack of expertise at that level. With the right structure maybe we could have signed some of the good players we chased as Haaland, Rice, Grealish, or Bellingham.
We would have avoided Ronaldo under serious directors and reinforced midfield instead, while not renewing players 'to protect value' getting the dressing room stacked with people aiming for playing time, and getting angry when it wasn't the case.
It wouldn't have made Ole successful, as our play never evolved enough to beat City in a 38 games run. But we could have got another decent season doing at least the bare minimum, he would have left in a positive manner in the coming summer and not the way it happened, and I think his time would be remembered in a better way.
I hope one day Ole reunites with Haaland in the NT, as there would be some poetry about it after their time at Molde. I have the feeling that he'd do well there.
“we won a cup” - give Ole the teams ETH faced in the carabao cup and he would win that too. One of the easiest runs to a trophy. How many home draws it? The season ticket holders had to get second jobs it was that manyWe also won a cup and finished with more points than Ole ever did last season. And we also have a terrible injury situation for half a season. Ole managed to look like a clown manager for a prolonged period with without the same level of injuries.
I share the feeling more or less, but in my case I wouldn't back a legend if we were as bad as we're now under ten Hag. I think results are important too.This is exactly how I feel. I agree with everything especially that bit about connection to the team. Some people feel like it's uneducated or immature to be romantic and football but it's a fecking sport. It means something that it was Ole. Even if offer things weren't perfect, I carried more about Ole finishing second in the league than I ever could about mourinho doing the same. That's the nature of an emotional connection. Those that deny it are often the ones defending ETH cause they think he's a smart philosopher type and Ole was just vibes. But feck it, football is a vibes business, give me fecking vibes any day.
Twice the manager with none of the trophies.It's pointless comparing Ole with ETH. Ole was twice the manager for us. The only debate here is between Mourinho and Ole who remained competitive for years until they lost the group. 2-3 years cycle before losing a dressing room is very common in football.
ETH's poor results in this second season are not about dressing room problems, is pure mismanagement. The players are trying but they're completely shot in terms of confidence as they're being set up to fail. The day he faces a dressing room revolt he's getting 7-0ed every week.