Ole Gunnar Solskjær needs more time and respect at Manchester United

[smallred]

for those in the Ole IN camp, can you name 5 things thats better than this time last year?

Playing style? shocking, worst ive ever witnessed at the club.
results? alarmingly backwards
league position? alarmingly down
quality of football? regressed
squad improved? no
morale around the club? regressed.

 

[Handré1990]

for those in the Ole IN camp, can you name 5 things thats better than this time last year?

Playing style? shocking, worst ive ever witnessed at the club.
results? alarmingly backwards
league position? alarmingly down
quality of football? regressed
squad improved? no
morale around the club? regressed.

Not necessarily in the in camp, but it’s still nice to not feel my stomach turn when our manager is talking about the club. I really felt Mourinho was taking the piss out of the club I’ve supported all my life at the end. I also think the profile he’s going for is correct, we need even these modern players to understand their responsibilities playing for united.

I wanted Lukaku, Fellaini and Sanchez gone, would have chosen to chuck anyone of Jones, Rojo or Bailly before Smalling, but a shake up was sorely needed. Whatever happens next, the players we got in, and shipped out was absolutely right imo.

So far I’d agree with all of your points, except the last, which I can’t comment on. I have spoken to other regulars around the ground who’d disagree though.

 

[diarm]

The sooner people get it into their heads that there isn't a quick fix here, the better off everyone will be. I feel like I've said this a million times this year but there is no manager on the planet who could come in, with the club as it is right now (or was when Ole came in), and be successful straight away. People want to see immediate effects and point to Pep and Klopp while ignoring what happened at those clubs before Pep and Klopp arrived - what the respective owners and boards, then Begiristain and Rodgers did at City and at Liverpool to lay the groundwork for what came later.

There are very few managers who would come in and be selfless enough, or love the club enough to take on the thankless role Ole has taken on. We all saw how Jose shat all over the club as soon as things got hard - more interested in his own reputation than the long term success of Manchester United. 99% of high profile, suitable managers would end up the exact same because what's in it for them? Why should they take the punishment so men who come later can reap the rewards.

In hindsight, I think Van Gaal was probably going about things the right way but didn't have the connection to the club that Ole has and we didn't give him the time or respect he deserved before hounding him out for the next shiny toy off the block.

The club is rotten - a combination of Fergie and Gill leaving at the same time, a spoofer kicking out a generations worth of coaching talent to replace them with mediocrity and the departure of several club legends and leaders led to the creation of a sudden void of experienced and able decision makers both on and off the field. For years that void was filled by a money man with an ego and nobody telling him no. Naivety and hubris in the transfer market alongside poor performance in Europe and the league left us attracting the wrong sorts of players and personalities for the wrong reasons and managerial musical chairs meant that players who had something to offer ended up leaving.

With Ole coming in, it feels like some of the problems have been at least acknowledged and the first steps have been taken to address the issues. Is he the tactical mastermind who will take us back to Premier League and European glory? Probably not, but we're so far away from those sort of ambitions currently that kicking him out for that would be like sacking a playschool teacher because a 4 year old can't do algebra yet.

What we do know about Ole is that he loves this club, and will never shit on it in the press or behind the scenes. He's sat in changing rooms alongside great leaders, characters and professionals of which he was one himself, and he'll know which faces need shipping out and what gaps want filling. We're not going to get relegated and we're not going to get top 4 - no matter what happens between now and May so for me, the best course of action is to get behind an absolute legend of this club and support him while he carries out the ugly job of resetting the clubs foundations. It's not a 2 month, 6 month or even 12 month job, not from the mess we were in after Jose, and he deserves at least until the summer before we start writing him off.

Let him build a squad of players who are here for the right reasons and then we can decide if he's the man to lead us back to the top instead of doing it now while he's still knees deep in the muck.

 

[Handré1990]

The sooner people get it into their heads that there isn't a quick fix here, the better off everyone will be. I feel like I've said this a million times this year but there is no manager on the planet who could come in, with the club as it is right now (or was when Ole came in), and be successful straight away. People want to see immediate effects and point to Pep and Klopp while ignoring what happened at those clubs before Pep and Klopp arrived - what the respective owners and boards, then Begiristain and Rodgers did at City and at Liverpool to lay the groundwork for what came later.

There are very few managers who would come in and be selfless enough, or love the club enough to take on the thankless role Ole has taken on. We all saw how Jose shat all over the club as soon as things got hard - more interested in his own reputation than the long term success of Manchester United. 99% of high profile, suitable managers would end up the exact same because what's in it for them? Why should they take the punishment so men who come later can reap the rewards.

In hindsight, I think Van Gaal was probably going about things the right way but didn't have the connection to the club that Ole has and we didn't give him the time or respect he deserved before hounding him out for the next shiny toy off the block.

The club is rotten - a combination of Fergie and Gill leaving at the same time, a spoofer kicking out a generations worth of coaching talent to replace them with mediocrity and the departure of several club legends and leaders led to the creation of a sudden void of experienced and able decision makers both on and off the field. For years that void was filled by a money man with an ego and nobody telling him no. Naivety and hubris in the transfer market alongside poor performance in Europe and the league left us attracting the wrong sorts of players and personalities for the wrong reasons and managerial musical chairs meant that players who had something to offer ended up leaving.

With Ole coming in, it feels like some of the problems have been at least acknowledged and the first steps have been taken to address the issues. Is he the tactical mastermind who will take us back to Premier League and European glory? Probably not, but we're so far away from those sort of ambitions currently that kicking him out for that would be like sacking a playschool teacher because a 4 year old can't do algebra yet.

What we do know about Ole is that he loves this club, and will never shit on it in the press or behind the scenes. He's sat in changing rooms alongside great leaders, characters and professionals of which he was one himself, and he'll know which faces need shipping out and what gaps want filling. We're not going to get relegated and we're not going to get top 4 - no matter what happens between now and May so for me, the best course of action is to get behind an absolute legend of this club and support him while he carries out the ugly job of resetting the clubs foundations. It's not a 2 month, 6 month or even 12 month job, not from the mess we were in after Jose, and he deserves at least until the summer before we start writing him off.

Let him build a squad of players who are here for the right reasons and then we can decide if he's the man to lead us back to the top instead of doing it now while he's still knees deep in the muck.

I’ve actually jumped the gun and voted sack, because of frustration. I don’t think he’ll take us to the top. Tactically he seems to struggle to get any sort of tune out of what he has at his However, I know all of what you’re saying has merit and I’d agree with all of it. So, what I’m trying to say is, great post! Especially the part about how Mourinho acted, you’d never see Ole do anything of the sort.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

The sooner people get it into their heads that there isn't a quick fix here, the better off everyone will be. I feel like I've said this a million times this year but there is no manager on the planet who could come in, with the club as it is right now (or was when Ole came in), and be successful straight away. People want to see immediate effects and point to Pep and Klopp while ignoring what happened at those clubs before Pep and Klopp arrived - what the respective owners and boards, then Begiristain and Rodgers did at City and at Liverpool to lay the groundwork for what came later.

There are very few managers who would come in and be selfless enough, or love the club enough to take on the thankless role Ole has taken on. We all saw how Jose shat all over the club as soon as things got hard - more interested in his own reputation than the long term success of Manchester United. 99% of high profile, suitable managers would end up the exact same because what's in it for them? Why should they take the punishment so men who come later can reap the rewards.

In hindsight, I think Van Gaal was probably going about things the right way but didn't have the connection to the club that Ole has and we didn't give him the time or respect he deserved before hounding him out for the next shiny toy off the block.

The club is rotten - a combination of Fergie and Gill leaving at the same time, a spoofer kicking out a generations worth of coaching talent to replace them with mediocrity and the departure of several club legends and leaders led to the creation of a sudden void of experienced and able decision makers both on and off the field. For years that void was filled by a money man with an ego and nobody telling him no. Naivety and hubris in the transfer market alongside poor performance in Europe and the league left us attracting the wrong sorts of players and personalities for the wrong reasons and managerial musical chairs meant that players who had something to offer ended up leaving.

With Ole coming in, it feels like some of the problems have been at least acknowledged and the first steps have been taken to address the issues. Is he the tactical mastermind who will take us back to Premier League and European glory? Probably not, but we're so far away from those sort of ambitions currently that kicking him out for that would be like sacking a playschool teacher because a 4 year old can't do algebra yet.

What we do know about Ole is that he loves this club, and will never shit on it in the press or behind the scenes. He's sat in changing rooms alongside great leaders, characters and professionals of which he was one himself, and he'll know which faces need shipping out and what gaps want filling. We're not going to get relegated and we're not going to get top 4 - no matter what happens between now and May so for me, the best course of action is to get behind an absolute legend of this club and support him while he carries out the ugly job of resetting the clubs foundations. It's not a 2 month, 6 month or even 12 month job, not from the mess we were in after Jose, and he deserves at least until the summer before we start writing him off.

Let him build a squad of players who are here for the right reasons and then we can decide if he's the man to lead us back to the top instead of doing it now while he's still knees deep in the muck.

Spot on, the sack brigade will probably ignore any sensible argument though.

 

[Greck]

Let him build a squad of players who are here for the right reasons and then we can decide if he's the man to lead us back to the top instead of doing it now while he's still knees deep in the muck.

With all due respect to your logic deciding if he's the right man is kind of what you're supposed to do before giving him 3 years and 300 Mil, not the other way round

 

[diarm]

With all due respect to your logic deciding if he's the right man is kind of what you're supposed to do before giving him 3 years and 300 Mil, not the other way round

I don't understand what you're saying here? Are you suggesting we should have given him more money in the summer and a longer contract or that we shouldn't have given him anything?

My point is that he is the right man for the job that needs doing now, and that job isn't buying galacticos or winning Champions Leagues. It's weeding out the elements of the club that don't belong and putting back the structures behind the scenes that will lead to future success. We're not going to see the results of that overnight and we're unlikely to attract a higher profile manager than Ole who is going to be selfless enough to sacrifice his short term for the clubs long term.

 

[Greck]

I don't understand what you're saying here? Are you suggesting we should have given him more money in the summer and a longer contract or that we shouldn't have given him anything?

My point is that he is the right man for the job that needs doing now, and that job isn't buying galacticos or winning Champions Leagues. It's weeding out the elements of the club that don't belong and putting back the structures behind the scenes that will lead to future success. We're not going to see the results of that overnight and we're unlikely to attract a higher profile manager than Ole who is going to be selfless enough to sacrifice his short term for the clubs long term.

We can and will attract a higher profile manager that can tick those boxes and more. Poch for example will be available and unlike Ole has actually done it in real life. The solid expectations or even speculation in the minds of some that Ole will or could do any of this given time and money is absolutely based on zero solid grounds. In fact the evidence points to the contrary. The evidence isn't just his managerial history but also what we've been seeing every week for the last six months.

I guess you're entitled to hold your own expectations as we all are

 

[Random Task]

We can and will attract a higher profile manager that can tick those boxes and more. Poch for example will be available and unlike Ole has actually done it in real life. The solid expectations that Ole will or could do any of this given time and money is absolutely based on zero solid grounds. In fact, the evidence points to the contrary. The evidence isn't just his managerial history but also what we've been seeing every week for the last six months.

I guess you're entitled to hold your expectations as we all are

You are assuming Poch (or managers of similar ilk) can get this squad performing to a consistent winning standard where the likes of Jose Mourinho and LVG could not.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

The sooner people get it into their heads that there isn't a quick fix here, the better off everyone will be. I feel like I've said this a million times this year but there is no manager on the planet who could come in, with the club as it is right now (or was when Ole came in), and be successful straight away. People want to see immediate effects and point to Pep and Klopp while ignoring what happened at those clubs before Pep and Klopp arrived - what the respective owners and boards, then Begiristain and Rodgers did at City and at Liverpool to lay the groundwork for what came later.

Has anyone asked for success? All we want is to not be complete and utter shit whilst being able to resemble a decent football team. Look at Rodgers at Leicester - joined in around Feb and they're 2nd in league after having lost their best defender. And before you and others say... "well they've a better team", we could have signed Tielemans but he wasn't British enough for Ole.

Honestly, it's fecking ridiculous to say "no manager could do better" or whatever nonsense some of you keep spouting. There's no excuse for a Manchester United manager to ever win 4 games in 22. We have enough to resources to not be this shit no matter how handicapped people say our manager is.

Any other job, Ole would be fired - if you show the levels of incompetency Ole has you're out of the door.

I mean his win % is 46 - our last three managers were significantly better! Yet no one could do better than Ole.

 

[Greck]

You are assuming Poch (or managers of similar ilk) can get this squad performing to a consistent winning standard where the likes of Jose Mourinho and LVG could not.

No don't strawman what I'm saying. We're currently talking about who would be a better manager to carry out this rebuild. To this end any assumption that Poch or any manager of a similar ilk would do better than Ole is an assumption far more grounded in reality than the contrary.

Even if I were to engage your point I absolutely think Poch or any manager of a similar ilk would look better with any set of players than Ole. For one he won't be completely lacking in tactical nous week in week out. That's literally the measurement of being better in the context of direct comparisons. 'Doing more if all variables were equal'. Even if he might lose there would still be a more coherent strategy on matchdays

 

[ash_86]

The sooner people get it into their heads that there isn't a quick fix here, the better off everyone will be. I feel like I've said this a million times this year but there is no manager on the planet who could come in, with the club as it is right now (or was when Ole came in), and be successful straight away. People want to see immediate effects and point to Pep and Klopp while ignoring what happened at those clubs before Pep and Klopp arrived - what the respective owners and boards, then Begiristain and Rodgers did at City and at Liverpool to lay the groundwork for what came later.

There are very few managers who would come in and be selfless enough, or love the club enough to take on the thankless role Ole has taken on. We all saw how Jose shat all over the club as soon as things got hard - more interested in his own reputation than the long term success of Manchester United. 99% of high profile, suitable managers would end up the exact same because what's in it for them? Why should they take the punishment so men who come later can reap the rewards.

In hindsight, I think Van Gaal was probably going about things the right way but didn't have the connection to the club that Ole has and we didn't give him the time or respect he deserved before hounding him out for the next shiny toy off the block.

The club is rotten - a combination of Fergie and Gill leaving at the same time, a spoofer kicking out a generations worth of coaching talent to replace them with mediocrity and the departure of several club legends and leaders led to the creation of a sudden void of experienced and able decision makers both on and off the field. For years that void was filled by a money man with an ego and nobody telling him no. Naivety and hubris in the transfer market alongside poor performance in Europe and the league left us attracting the wrong sorts of players and personalities for the wrong reasons and managerial musical chairs meant that players who had something to offer ended up leaving.

With Ole coming in, it feels like some of the problems have been at least acknowledged and the first steps have been taken to address the issues. Is he the tactical mastermind who will take us back to Premier League and European glory? Probably not, but we're so far away from those sort of ambitions currently that kicking him out for that would be like sacking a playschool teacher because a 4 year old can't do algebra yet.

What we do know about Ole is that he loves this club, and will never shit on it in the press or behind the scenes. He's sat in changing rooms alongside great leaders, characters and professionals of which he was one himself, and he'll know which faces need shipping out and what gaps want filling. We're not going to get relegated and we're not going to get top 4 - no matter what happens between now and May so for me, the best course of action is to get behind an absolute legend of this club and support him while he carries out the ugly job of resetting the clubs foundations. It's not a 2 month, 6 month or even 12 month job, not from the mess we were in after Jose, and he deserves at least until the summer before we start writing him off.

Let him build a squad of players who are here for the right reasons and then we can decide if he's the man to lead us back to the top instead of doing it now while he's still knees deep in the muck.

Brilliant post.

 

[diarm]

We can and will attract a higher profile manager that can tick those boxes and more. Poch for example will be available and unlike Ole has actually done it in real life.

Why would Poch (or any other high profile manager) leave Spurs for United to do the job Ole has been charged with in turning us around? He would know the time it would take and he would look to how Van Gaal was treated and rightly presume that he would not be given that time. Why would he sacrifice two years of his career for a job that better managers than himself have taken on and failed in?

The solid expectations or even speculation in the minds of some that Ole will or could do any of this given time and money is absolutely based on zero solid grounds. In fact the evidence points to the contrary. The evidence isn't just his managerial history but also what we've been seeing every week for the last six months.

You're misunderstanding my point - I'm not necessarily expecting Ole to ever win the league with us. I just think it's a good idea to have someone who loves the club and who knows how it was set up at its best, steering us through this much needed reset. I've accepted that we're not going to be challenging at the top end of the table for a while and while we're getting the foundations back to where they should be, I'd prefer someone who will act in the best and long term interests of the club, rather than looking at whats best for their own career.

Has anyone asked for success? All we want is to not be complete and utter shit whilst being able to resemble a decent football team. Look at Rodgers at Leicester - joined in around Feb and they're 2nd in league after having lost their best defender. And before you and others say... "well they've a better team", we could have signed Tielemans but he wasn't British enough for Ole.

Honestly, it's fecking ridiculous to say "no manager could do better" or whatever nonsense some of you keep spouting. There's no excuse for a Manchester United manager to ever win 4 games in 22. We have enough to resources to not be this shit no matter how handicapped people say our manager is.

Any other job, Ole would be fired - if you show the levels of incompetency Ole has you're out of the door.

I mean his win % is 46 - our last three managers were significantly better! Yet no one could do better than Ole.

I'm not going to try and argue with all of your points because I can see already that we're never going to see eye to eye here. What I will say is that had you been calling the shots, Sir Alex Ferguson would have been fired in 1989 and the last 30 years of this club would have a very different story.

 

[Gary_Walsh_Nou_Camp_Hell]

Why would Poch (or any other high profile manager) leave Spurs for United to do the job Ole has been charged with in turning us around? He would know the time it would take and he would look to how Van Gaal was treated and rightly presume that he would not be given that time. Why would he sacrifice two years of his career for a job that better managers than himself have taken on and failed in?



You're misunderstanding my point - I'm not necessarily expecting Ole to ever win the league with us. I just think it's a good idea to have someone who loves the club and who knows how it was set up at its best, steering us through this much needed reset. I've accepted that we're not going to be challenging at the top end of the table for a while and while we're getting the foundations back to where they should be, I'd prefer someone who will act in the best and long term interests of the club, rather than looking at whats best for their own career.



I'm not going to try and argue with all of your points because I can see already that we're never going to see eye to eye here. What I will say is that had you been calling the shots, Sir Alex Ferguson would have been fired in 1989 and the last 30 years of this club would have a very different story.

But SAF had a strong managerial record is his short time as a manager that obviously bought him time.

SAF was also making significant changes to the club behind the scenes.

Martins Edwards and the board could see SAF's vision for the club and stuck with it.

Ole doesn't have any positive track record and his vision is not yet known. The club shouldn't give him 5-6 years.

Also, SAF might have taken a bit of time but we weren't total dog shit to watch. Inconsistent but was like this shit we're given now.

 

[diarm]

So, what I’m trying to say is, great post!

Spot on, the sack brigade will probably ignore any sensible argument though.

Brilliant post.

Cheers fellas. I didn't mean to write such an essay but I've been trying to put into words how I feel about the situation for a while. Every time a non-United supporting mate starts going on about Ole at Cardiff and his lack of trophies I get frustrated about how irrelevant that all is right now but I can't get across what I mean properly.

I just want to see a club I can love again and I genuinely don't believe just throwing money at players and a new high profile manager every 18 months is going to achieve that. If Solskjaer can spend two years putting together a squad of players who are here for right reasons and want to learn how to play the right way then I'll be happy, even if we spend those two seasons outside the top 6 or 10. Once that foundation is there, if Ole isn't the man to make the next step - then we can start looking.

 

[Random Task]

No don't strawman what I'm saying. We're currently talking about who would be a better manager to carry out this rebuild. To this end any assumption that Poch or any manager of a similar ilk would do better than Ole is an assumption far more grounded in reality than the contrary.

Even if I were to engage your point I think Poch or any manager of a similar ilk would look better with any set of players than Ole. For one he won't be completely lacking in tactical nous week in week out. That's the measurement of being better in the context of direct comparisons. 'Doing more if all variables were equal'. He might lose but there would be a more coherent strategy on matchdays

In the event of Ole's sacking, if and when that might be, I think Poch is a strong candidate to lead a rebuild such as the one we are confronted with right now. His work at Spurs is nothing short of miraculous considering the limited funds at his disposal, which certainly lends weight to the suggestion that he knows how to build a football team as well as anyone out there - just not a successful one.

But I do not believe for a second that he could get our current squad performing any better than Ole or Jose or LVG before them. There is only so much a top-tier manager - or any manager for that matter - can get from a group of distinctly average footballers. I'm talking about the type of player who performs to a consistently low standard against sides of equally low ability only to raise his game when the likes of Liverpool, for example, are in town. We have a squad full of these players.

 

[diarm]

But SAF had a strong managerial record is his short time as a manager that obviously bought him time.

Van Gaal had an incredible managerial record but we didn't give him time to see the changes he was making play out. We can't build the club around the hope that a Sir Matt Busby or a Sir Alex Ferguson will always be there. Modern managers don't get the time Fergie was given and the higher profile ones will be too focused on their own careers to consider sacrificing short term success for long term gain.

SAF was also making significant changes to the club behind the scenes.

I believe Ole is as well.

Martins Edwards and the board could see SAF's vision for the club and stuck with it.

And they were massively criticised for it by people in the stands and writing in the papers. We don't know whats going on in the club but for me, looking on from the outside, what I've seen in the last 10 months has felt much more positive than in the several years previous.

Ole doesn't have any positive track record and his vision is not yet known. The club shouldn't give him 5-6 years.

I'm not saying 5-6 years. I'm saying 2-3.

Also, SAF might have taken a bit of time but we weren't total dog shit to watch. Inconsistent but was like this shit we're given now.

Yes we were. There was massive criticism of Ferguson and the football on show. People thought he had lost sight of what the club was and the exact same arguments about not caring if we weren't challenging as long as we were watching a decent style of football that we hear so much now, where being made then.

 

[Random Task]

Cheers fellas. I didn't mean to write such an essay but I've been trying to put into words how I feel about the situation for a while. Every time a non-United supporting mate starts going on about Ole at Cardiff and his lack of trophies I get frustrated about how irrelevant that all is right now but I can't get across what I mean properly.

I just want to see a club I can love again and I genuinely don't believe just throwing money at players and a new high profile manager every 18 months is going to achieve that. If Solskjaer can spend two years putting together a squad of players who are here for right reasons and want to learn how to play the right way then I'll be happy, even if we spend those two seasons outside the top 6 or 10. Once that foundation is there, if Ole isn't the man to make the next step - then we can start looking.

I agree with pretty much all of this.

 

[Enigma_87]

In the event of Ole's sacking, if and when that might be, I think Poch is a strong candidate to lead a rebuild such as the one we are confronted with right now. His work at Spurs is nothing short of miraculous considering the limited funds at his disposal, which certainly lends weight to the suggestion that he knows how to build a football team as well as anyone out there - just not a successful one.

But I do not believe for a second that he could get our current squad performing any better than Ole or Jose or LVG before them. There is only so much a top-tier manager - or any manager for that matter - can get from a group of distinctly average footballers. I'm talking about the type of player who performs to a consistently low standard against sides of equally low ability only to raise his game when the likes of Liverpool, for example, are in town. We have a squad full of these players.

Seriously? No better than bottom half finish? Every manager, including Moyes have performed better than Ole so far.

Some need to understand that if you give mediocre manager more time it will create all sort of mess for the next in line to clear and in the same time we are looking at dire times like we're witnessing now.

All the supposed changes and plans that are taking place will be wiped out with the next manager, who will no doubt have different ideology than Ole(whatever that is).

If you give him time we will end up as Milan, plain and simple.

There is a reason why managers come and go at top clubs and they remain successful. They fix their mistakes a lot quicker than us.

Apparently some of our fanbase is still living in the 70's and 80's and reckon Ole will be the next Fergie, only on the basis that he's given time, without any rational argument in terms of his actual skillset.

 

[Enigma_87]

Cheers fellas. I didn't mean to write such an essay but I've been trying to put into words how I feel about the situation for a while. Every time a non-United supporting mate starts going on about Ole at Cardiff and his lack of trophies I get frustrated about how irrelevant that all is right now but I can't get across what I mean properly.

I just want to see a club I can love again and I genuinely don't believe just throwing money at players and a new high profile manager every 18 months is going to achieve that. If Solskjaer can spend two years putting together a squad of players who are here for right reasons and want to learn how to play the right way then I'll be happy, even if we spend those two seasons outside the top 6 or 10. Once that foundation is there, if Ole isn't the man to make the next step - then we can start looking.

Sadly, this is not how football works nowadays. As soon as new manager takes his place he will reevaluate the squad and chop it to his own liking. Some of those players brought in will be moved on, some of the others won't be successful buys, some would leave.

With Solskjaer you have the worst manager in the top 6 and we will drift apart even more. Top 6 or 10 is generous based on what we have seen so far and would probably be considered significant success for him, as crazy it might sound.

Believing that the foundation will still be there(whatever that is) when we have no DoF or proper structure without the manager who is the sole responsible for that plan is naive to put it best.

When Ole is eventually sacked (some part this season as eventually the board won't entertain relegation battle), I'm pretty sure nobody that takes his place will follow his plan, because it will be different manager with different vision.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Why would Poch (or any other high profile manager) leave Spurs for United to do the job Ole has been charged with in turning us around? He would know the time it would take and he would look to how Van Gaal was treated and rightly presume that he would not be given that time. Why would he sacrifice two years of his career for a job that better managers than himself have taken on and failed in?



You're misunderstanding my point - I'm not necessarily expecting Ole to ever win the league with us. I just think it's a good idea to have someone who loves the club and who knows how it was set up at its best, steering us through this much needed reset. I've accepted that we're not going to be challenging at the top end of the table for a while and while we're getting the foundations back to where they should be, I'd prefer someone who will act in the best and long term interests of the club, rather than looking at whats best for their own career.



I'm not going to try and argue with all of your points because I can see already that we're never going to see eye to eye here. What I will say is that had you been calling the shots, Sir Alex Ferguson would have been fired in 1989 and the last 30 years of this club would have a very different story.

Times are different. Plus this is rarely happens in football. We're the only club who tries this.

 

[Giggsyking]

It is the easiest thing to say. Need more time. Why the feck should I give him more time? We are ffs 14th. He should be sacked now.

 

[Adam-Utd]

It is the easiest thing to say. Need more time. Why the feck should I give him more time? We are ffs 14th. He should be sacked now.

Well he did take the squad over in a pretty simular situation under Mourinho.

You can say while we had a quick bounce that was amazing, the drop off has been just as poor.

IMO in the transfer market we've taken 1 step forward and 2 steps back, but I think we took the risk (and Ole believed) that we could get through until January and then get reinforcements. Obviously the injuries have really hammered us, and Greenwood/Gomes/Chong etc aren't ready to fully take the load on yet.

If we had our first team fit for all the matches I don't think we'd be in this situation.

Currently we are 7 points away from the top 4 which isn't impossible, but we do need to fix this situation and quickly. Hopefully the lads take some confidence from the Liverpool game as we've shown we can hang at that level if the put in the maximum effort.

 

[Greck]

Why would Poch (or any other high profile manager) leave Spurs for United to do the job Ole has been charged with in turning us around? He would know the time it would take and he would look to how Van Gaal was treated and rightly presume that he would not be given that time. Why would he sacrifice two years of his career for a job that better managers than himself have taken on and failed in?



You're misunderstanding my point - I'm not necessarily expecting Ole to ever win the league with us. I just think it's a good idea to have someone who loves the club and who knows how it was set up at its best, steering us through this much needed reset. I've accepted that we're not going to be challenging at the top end of the table for a while and while we're getting the foundations back to where they should be, I'd prefer someone who will act in the best and long term interests of the club, rather than looking at whats best for their own career.



I'm not going to try and argue with all of your points because I can see already that we're never going to see eye to eye here. What I will say is that had you been calling the shots, Sir Alex Ferguson would have been fired in 1989 and the last 30 years of this club would have a very different story.

Yet more conjecture and assumption divorced from reality. You just hope this is how Poch feels. You're not his agent. If it's like that I am also equally 100% sure Poch would come here. He won't even commit to spurs verbally and Spurs fans know he wants a move to a bigger club. That much is fact based

 

[Giggsyking]

Well he did take the squad over in a pretty simular situation under Mourinho.

You can say while we had a quick bounce that was amazing, the drop off has been just as poor.

IMO in the transfer market we've taken 1 step forward and 2 steps back, but I think we took the risk (and Ole believed) that we could get through until January and then get reinforcements. Obviously the injuries have really hammered us, and Greenwood/Gomes/Chong etc aren't ready to fully take the load on yet.

If we had our first team fit for all the matches I don't think we'd be in this situation.

Currently we are 7 points away from the top 4 which isn't impossible, but we do need to fix this situation and quickly. Hopefully the lads take some confidence from the Liverpool game as we've shown we can hang at that level if the put in the maximum effort.

And that is why he should be sacked now. What he believes in is wrong and stupid of him think that midfield will get him till January. When average football fans realised it before the season start but not the manager of the biggest club in the world, it say everything about him. 14th is A DISGRACE.

 

[Bobcat]

1. What a temporary appointment will do? I think it's pretty obvious - better results, improve some players, better coaching, instill some fresh new idea, even for a short period.

2-3. How can that table be still up to date, considering we have 4 draws and 3 losses alone this season? Say, if and buts doesn't really work well so far does it? If you haven't noticed we have lost points in the exact "easy fixtures" that you count as won. If you use the context to suit your agenda then what part has had Ole in the initial success run? Let me get this straight - he just arrived, went on an unbeaten run with Jose's team, which is shite - the full credit goes to him. Then when he was actually adjusted to the job and given the permanent role we use all sorts of excuses to relieve him from all the responsibility of the barren run, is that correct?

And no Klopp comparisons don't work. Klopp was a world class manager before going to Pool. Ole was and still is a nobody in management who took down Cardiff and is close to doing the same with United.

4. We have conceded in 7 out of the last 9 matches in PL this season alone. Yes it's better than last year, but it's normal considering we spent 130m on two defenders?

Having no backup option for those injured players is also on him, because that was part of the plan, coming from the interviews wasn't it?

That thin squad also was him overseeing the clearance without replacing players.

I don't get it - you want United to do well or Ole to do well? Since when many started to put Ole instead of United's best interest?

Are you happy with the club close to relegation zone after 9 games since decades?

1. You dont know that. It could get better, it could stay the same, it could even get worse. AFAIK the players still back Ole, so getting in a new guy they might not like may plunge us even further down. We have all seen what open discontent looks like, and this is not it. We've even had players come out and pleaded the fans show some patience

2+3 . All i am saying is, if we are going to look at results, either pick his full tenure (interim + permanent) or this season alone. Picking something arbitrary like "after x game" just muddies the waters. He does not deserve all the credit for the winning run, and neither does he deserve all the blame for the horrific run after it. Same as the Liverpool game. Ole deserves credit for setting up the team good, but the players also deserve credit for good performances. Of course the manager is important, but not everything good or bad that happens to a club is solely on him.

And it not about "making excuses", its about realizing there are a lot of mitigating factors here, that is outside of any managers control and cant be fixed by snapping our fingers. The squad for example was a complete mess and still is to some extent. Fitness was a problem, morale was at the bottom and we had a lot of players we really needed to get of books. The fact that James have been our most productive attacker this season says a lot imo.

4. Him saying to the media at the start of the season "hes happy with the squad/players" is what everyone does. Everyone can see this squad needs some serious reinforcements to compete and that includes Ole and his coaches, they are not morons. The players we sold (except Herrera) is no big loss and most of them needed to go. Under the last three managers our transfers have been awful and based on short sighted gains rather than long term goals and is a big reason why the squad is in such a dire state. In an ideal world we would of course get another 2-3 players to fill some gaps, but i would much rather we spend a couple of windows getting the right player than more panic buys that eventually does more harm than good. We dont need more Darmian, Sanches and Matic type of players, we need young, quality players like AWB

I want United and Ole to do well, in that order. If we end the season as poorly as it has started, then we should get another manager in May, but we've had 4 managers in 6 years now (5 with Giggs) so it should be pretty clear that our problems go well beyond just the manager. That's why i think its pointless sacking him now. I was prepared for a transitional season with some rough periods and that is what we are getting by the looks of it. I also still believe there are brighter days ahead.

 

[Adam-Utd]

And that is why he should be sacked now. What he believes in is wrong and stupid of him think that midfield will get him till January. When average football fans realised it before the season start but not the manager of the biggest club in the world, it say everything about him. 14th is A DISGRACE.

Nobody said this at the start of the season, so it's easy to say with hindsight.

Yes 14th doesn't look good but were 3 points away from 7th place. Perspective is important. We're less than a quarter way through the season, but obviously results do need to change quickly.

 

[NJM78]

What Ole needs...is the sack if the terrible run of form we are on continues.

Huge few weeks for him coming up.

 

[Giggsyking]

Nobody said this at the start of the season, so it's easy to say with hindsight.

Yes 14th doesn't look good but were 3 points away from 7th place. Perspective is important. We're less than a quarter way through the season, but obviously results do need to change quickly.

I don't know about you my friend, but literally the majority of the opinions in the transfer thread was about how we are going to suffer if we do not buy two midfielders this season.

 

[Enigma_87]

1. You dont know that. It could get better, it could stay the same, it could even get worse. AFAIK the players still back Ole, so getting in a new guy they might not like may plunge us even further down. We have all seen what open discontent looks like, and this is not it. We've even had players come out and pleaded the fans show some patience

2+3 . All i am saying is, if we are going to look at results, either pick his full tenure (interim + permanent) or this season alone. Picking something arbitrary like "after x game" just muddies the waters. He does not deserve all the credit for the winning run, and neither does he deserve all the blame for the horrific run after it. Same as the Liverpool game. Ole deserves credit for setting up the team good, but the players also deserve credit for good performances. Of course the manager is important, but not everything good or bad that happens to a club is solely on him.

And it not about "making excuses", its about realizing there are a lot of mitigating factors here, that is outside of any managers control and cant be fixed by snapping our fingers. The squad for example was a complete mess and still is to some extent. Fitness was a problem, morale was at the bottom and we had a lot of players we really needed to get of books. The fact that James have been our most productive attacker this season says a lot imo.

4. Him saying to the media at the start of the season "hes happy with the squad/players" is what everyone does. Everyone can see this squad needs some serious reinforcements to compete and that includes Ole and his coaches, they are not morons. The players we sold (except Herrera) is no big loss and most of them needed to go. Under the last three managers our transfers have been awful and based on short sighted gains rather than long term goals and is a big reason why the squad is in such a dire state. In an ideal world we would of course get another 2-3 players to fill some gaps, but i would much rather we spend a couple of windows getting the right player than more panic buys that eventually does more harm than good. We dont need more Darmian, Sanches and Matic type of players, we need young, quality players like AWB

I want United and Ole to do well, in that order. If we end the season as poorly as it has started, then we should get another manager in May, but we've had 4 managers in 6 years now (5 with Giggs) so it should be pretty clear that our problems go well beyond just the manager. That's why i think its pointless sacking him now. I was prepared for a transitional season with some rough periods and that is what we are getting by the looks of it. I also still believe there are brighter days ahead.

1. Results would hardly become worse, mate. Also as good the atmosphere is now, when you go on another barren run, which is likely considering our form, heads might drop and we can realistically end up in relegation battle. Look at Monaco for example. Ole is a nobody and expandable, the players are behind him now, but if the results become even more grim they will cop out and leave him hanging - they have done it before.

2+3. Whatever you look at it it's bad. Again it's not only his fault, of course, but he has the majority of the fault being the face of our footballing side. Besides, I think is common sense that form (in the last 6 months) holds more weight, although you won't agree due to the bad results, since he has had the time to establish himself and implement some ideas, whereas in the beginning of his tenure it's unrealistic to think that he suddenly came out and changed everything right?

The squad being a mess is also on him for large part. He oversaw this squad, he didn't replace the outgoings because they didn't fit the profile, he didn't plan well leaving it short, condoned players go away on loan and being sold - you know a lot of factors that are on the manager. You can't excuse him for the summer business but then somehow praise him for those who are performing well and being one of the only footballing factors to give him more time.

4. It's not only the "happy with the squad". It's also happy with Woodward, players available who didn't fit the profile, all according to plan, thinking we will do well and blame it on injuries. Those are lame excuses mate.

Bear in mind even the most successful managers have 50% success rate in transfers, it's unrealistic to expect Ole to somehow have better percentage. Not every player he buys will turn good and not every full back will be AWB rather than Darmian.

Sacking an under performing and poor manager is not some obscure thing for top clubs. Don't see why people are so scared of it. Literally every top club does it on regular basis. The days we will have a manager for 20-30 years are long gone. I hope people realize that soon and stop living in the past.

Hire and sack 4 more eventually you will get it right and hire a manager that is worth putting your faith and resources behind. Ole is not that guy and sticking with him because "who else" is really a poor argument. I agree about the brighter days and if we stop living in the past we will see more of them in the future.

 

[The Kag]

Nobody said this at the start of the season, so it's easy to say with hindsight.

Sorry, but that's just patently false. There was a slew of posts bemoaning the fact that we hadn't reinforced the midfield.

This is but a small sample of the type of posts on here prior to the 19/20 season.

Our options are quite bad probably worse in all of top 8. We really need couple of solid 6/10 midfielders . Not world beaters not young kids but who can actually do a job .
Season is 2 weeks away and I don't think we will sign any mids ( even if we sign longstaff ,he is for future).

We're going to be overrun and dominated in the middle of the field every week. It's a good thing we have strengthened the defence, because it is going to have to withstand a lot of pressure.

Our midfield is a disgrace. To be fair if Solskjaer isn't absolutely demanding reinforcements immediately then he should and will be sacked before Xmas. We will get totally overrun.

Need someone desperately so we don't have to play Matic. He's a liability.

Midfield is an even bigger concern than CB for me, I expect threads on topic of our midfield to gain a lot of traction in the coming months.

As a neutral this is what I’ve been wondering about the most. I know your defence needs some work and you need help scoring too, but to me a proper midfield can help with all that.

A good defensive midfielder is key, it'll help protect our defence more and it can help free up Pogba. We can't rely on Matic and McTominay is more of a box to box player in my eyes.

Not making a Herrera replacement our first priority the moment we knew he wasn't signing a new contract will probably turn out to be the club's biggest mistake from this summer.

Not good enough. We need someone to step up. I don't think we are signing anyone.

The depth is horrendous, I can't believe we're heading into the season with this bunch, will cost us big time. Take Pogba out of the team and we're at West Ham level.

Considering we lost Herrera it's very surprising that midfield wasn't our priority in terms of signings, if we want to dictate games then we need some pretty serious reinforcements, which seems unlikely.

seeing the pics of the earthquakes in California makes me think of our midfield rebuild for some reason...

Midfield is being destroyed not rebuilt.

our what now?

 

[Enigma_87]

Nobody said this at the start of the season, so it's easy to say with hindsight.

Yes 14th doesn't look good but were 3 points away from 7th place. Perspective is important. We're less than a quarter way through the season, but obviously results do need to change quickly.

Pretty everyone was calling out our midfield even before it was clear Herrera will be gone, let alone afterwards.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Sorry, but that's just patently false. There was a slew of posts bemoaning the fact that we hadn't reinforced the midfield.

This is but a small sample of the type of posts on here prior to the 19/20 season.

Pretty everyone was calling out our midfield even before it was clear Herrera will be gone, let alone afterwards.

It's fair to say we do need reinforcements, but Pogba/Mctominay isn't a bad midfield pairing.

We've hardly been dominated in midfield battles either, we've just lacked ideas upfront and our finishing has been awful.

The main point is the injuries have been way worse than expected, I doubt even in the worst case scenario Ole expected 6 first team injuries.

 

[Ødegaard]

I don't think there is a lack of respect from most people. But hearing people in and around the club talk about their faith in Ole (Stepney, May, Whiteside and a fair few more) and the work he does helps on keeping the pessimism away much more than being around supporters who are starved for seeing progress.

Whether he should be given more time or not is luckily not in individual supporters power to decide. I myself believe that there are better options out there we should go for, but I'm not going to actively want Ole out just because I don't believe in him. I still have hope if nothing else.

 

[ZenMaster Coltrane]

Until the structure or ownership changes where there's a DOF/transfer committee drawn from a pool of top talent, we're not getting within shouting distance of competing for a league title even with a top 10 manager in world football.

BUT
That's a completely separate issue from coaching and developing players. And this is where the "We've tried all the types of managers, we can't keep changing, he needs time blah blah" crowd completely misses the boat.

These players are not improving, especially the ones who should be making jumps every 6 or 12 months. Time is of the essence. They're wasting time on this Brexit FC garbage because either OGS can't man manage non-British players or it's a smokescreen for not being able to attract the elite talent. Either way, it's total garbage and not a recipe for winning trophies but it is for player stagnation and perhaps regression.

The planning and wage bill management is still horrendous. DDG couldn't get anywhere close to that money anywhere else. Extending Jones, Mata, Smalling, Lindelof. Jettisoning Fellaini, Herrera, Sanchez, Lukaku and replacing them with Maguire, AWB and Daniel James. No manager worth his salt is green-lighting that.

The most comparable situation is when an NBA, NFL, NHL team decides to tank the season to get a top draft pick and clear out salary for an impending free agent swoop/rebuild. But this basically never happens to a team lead by a top coach. It's a sacrificial lamb type of situation and they've chosen the right man for all those sentimental "he loves the club, I want it to work with a League 1 manager" crowd.

 

[Mainoldo]

I don't think there is a lack of respect from most people. But hearing people in and around the club talk about their faith in Ole (Stepney, May, Whiteside and a fair few more) and the work he does helps on keeping the pessimism away much more than being around supporters who are starved for seeing progress.

Whether he should be given more time or not is luckily not in individual supporters power to decide. I myself believe that there are better options out there we should go for, but I'm not going to actively want Ole out just because I don't believe in him. I still have hope if nothing else.

Yo Odegaard come play for us man!! Could do with a creative spark like you.. Ole got a thing against his own country too? Rather you than Maddison.

 

[Ødegaard]

Yo Odegaard come play for us man!! Could do with a creative spark like you.. Ole got a thing against his own country too? Rather you than Maddison.

Afraid the Premier league is a bit too tough for me. Getting the shit kicked out of me in La Liga with no protection from the refs even though I'm a Real Madrid player.

 

[Okey]

For me, it's simple. Is Ole good enough for United? No. Is the squad good enough? No. Both need fixing. I'd rather fix the squad first. That way, even Ole would probably do a respectable job before it becomes obvious a change is needed. As for respect, that's non negotiable. No matter how his tenure goes, he deserves nothing but our absolute respect. A United man through and through.

 

[Giggsyking]

For me, it's simple. Is Ole good enough for United? No. Is the squad good enough? No. Both need fixing. I'd rather fix the squad first. That way, even Ole would probably do a respectable job before it becomes obvious a change is needed. As for respect, that's non negotiable. No matter how his tenure goes, he deserves nothing but our absolute respect. A United man through and through.

You are wrong I am afraid. You need to change the manager before you change the players. For two important reasons. First, if you change the players before the manager, the new manager will come and demand his own new rebuild. Second, it is easier, less expensive and more effective to change the manager than changing the players.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

Until the structure or ownership changes where there's a DOF/transfer committee drawn from a pool of top talent, we're not getting within shouting distance of competing for a league title even with a top 10 manager in world football.

BUT
That's a completely separate issue from coaching and developing players. And this is where the "We've tried all the types of managers, we can't keep changing, he needs time blah blah" crowd completely misses the boat.

These players are not improving, especially the ones who should be making jumps every 6 or 12 months. Time is of the essence. They're wasting time on this Brexit FC garbage because either OGS can't man manage non-British players or it's a smokescreen for not being able to attract the elite talent. Either way, it's total garbage and not a recipe for winning trophies but it is for player stagnation and perhaps regression.

The planning and wage bill management is still horrendous. DDG couldn't get anywhere close to that money anywhere else. Extending Jones, Mata, Smalling, Lindelof. Jettisoning Fellaini, Herrera, Sanchez, Lukaku and replacing them with Maguire, AWB and Daniel James. No manager worth his salt is green-lighting that.

The most comparable situation is when an NBA, NFL, NHL team decides to tank the season to get a top draft pick and clear out salary for an impending free agent swoop/rebuild. But this basically never happens to a team lead by a top coach. It's a sacrificial lamb type of situation and they've chosen the right man for all those sentimental "he loves the club, I want it to work with a League 1 manager" crowd.

I agree with much of what you're saying, especially the parts about Ole being the sacrificial lamb and signing British talent as a smokescreen because of the difficulties in signing Europes elite but not about the Brexit FC.

If and it's a very big if, we could sign Sancho, Kane and Maddison we would go from being a top 10 club to straight away being a top 3 and from there we'd have a base to build on to challenge the top 2. Of course it's a lot of money but it's pretty risk free with 2 of them already established in the PL and knowing Sancho wouldn't have any problems. It's a lot more risk free than say signing players like Joao felix for £100m+ or feckin Fred for 50.

Since the 13/14 season we've spunked about 500m on players who haven't exactly set the world alight. And none of them are British. Now's the time to spend big but spend wisely and I couldn't think of 3 better players to start the United revolution. Sign Kane first as an intent and maybe others will follow.