Ole in? Some surprising stats that reveal another side to Solskjaer's management performance

[Henrik Larsson]

Reminds me of some other stats I saw this week: 'Average points per match of Dutch Barcelona coaches in La Liga'

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The guy who posted this works for Opta. So the fact that there was a 2 point per win system back in the day is taken into account.

 

[bond19821982]

excuses excuses excuses

 

[SirReginald]

Some surprising stats that show how Ole compares to the almighty Klopp after 162 games...and lo and behold, the Norwegian has a higher win rate.

This stat is meaningless.It’s no different from saying “after 1 game Ole has a win % of 100 vs Klopp having 0% at the same stage.”
This is a classic example of creating agenda and bias in the media. Your sold a narrative that win % is critical.

In actual fact, if you take just those stats, Ole is worse than Klopp so it’s pretty laughable. Firstly a difference of 1 win in 162 is just .5% higher which is nothing.
In the same period Klopp has accumulated 5 more points and lost 7 less games. In a 38 game season goals scored and points are far more valuable than win %.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Because we want our team to succeed and operate at the full potential. Maybe you’re happy with mediocrity or you’re just another paid Ole shill on here

If this is a thing.

AD: I can be bought, rates competitive.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

I can’t comment because I pay no attention to Liverpool. Or any other team for that matter. As you’re so impressed by them maybe you should consider switching allegiances and supporting Liverpool instead. Might not be so bad for your blood pressure.

Pathetic post. Classic "Go support another team" statement when you dont have anything else to counter with.

Blindly backing the inept manager seems to be some kind moral victory for some on here.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

This stat is meaningless.It’s no different from saying “after 1 game Ole has a win % of 100 vs Klopp having 0% at the same stage.”
This is a classic example of creating agenda and bias in the media. Your sold a narrative that win % is critical.

In actual fact, if you take just those stats, Ole is worse than Klopp so it’s pretty laughable. Firstly a difference of 1 win in 162 is just .5% higher which is nothing.
In the same period Klopp has accumulated 5 more points and lost 7 less games. In a 38 game season goals scored and points are far more valuable than win %.

Imagine using stats to justify that Ole is on par with Klopp

 

[Plant0x84]

Once again, no, they generally don’t. Tuchel had a CL in 6 months, Pep had a PL in his second season, Klopp had taken over a worse team, spent less, reached a CL final, had a much better end to the season and actually smashed this third full season out of the park. At this point (162 games) his trajectory was pointed almost vertical, you knew from the off he was in a title battle.

We had a shit end of the season, and a worse start to this season. To match Klopp from that season we now have to drop just 7 more points all season, we’ve dropped 13 after just 8 games

Pep joined a PL winning team with a CL challenging squad. He still hasn’t won the CL with City, which is arguably what he was bought in to do. Does that make him a failure? I’d have to assume Ole could have won the league too with the squad available at City, and the momentum built by Mancini and Pellegrini, but no he had to rebuild our depleated, below par and demoralised squad which was torn apart by LVG, and ground into the floor by Mourinho.

As for Tuchel, Chelsea were already in the Round of 16 by the time he took over. Granted they beat Atlético, Porto and Real on the way to the final, but the squad was built by Lampard (spending an absolute fortune even during the pandemic) and he had done a lot of the leg work in the group stages. This is compatible with Chelseas other CL winning manager, Robert Di Matteo, who also took over during the round of 16. You could argue his achievement was greater as he had to turn around a 3-1 first leg defeat, and had to come from behind on aggregate vs Barcelona with Terry having been sent off. I don’t think for one minute you would argue RDM is a better coach than Tuchel?

And to Klopp. A quick google backs up the head to head between Ole and Jurgen. (As I’m sure it would ‘prove’ just about any other view point)

Ole Gunnar Solskjaer
Played: 118
Won: 67
Drawn: 23
Lost: 28

Goals for: 217
Goals against: 123
Clean sheets: 44

Points per game: 1.89
Win rate: 56.8%
Loss rate: 23.7%

Goals per game: 1.83
Goals against per game: 1.04

Jurgen Klopp
Played: 118
Won: 60
Drawn: 34
Lost: 24

Goals for: 216
Goals against: 128
Clean sheets: 42

Points per game: 1.81
Win rate: 50.8%
Loss rate: 20.3%

Goals per game: 1.83
Goals against per game: 1.08

This set of numbers is based on 50 games fewer than the OP, but the similarities between both men are striking. Klopp is clearly better at getting a draw instead of defeat. Or maybe our defence was a weak point during this period, and has widely been condemned as not good enough for years now. Just saying, could be a factor.
Oles win ratio is much better here, obviously Klopps has improved in the 50 games up to the OP, which probably explains the title and CL win. Again the squads are a mitigating factor here, and arguably Klopp took a stronger squad at Liverpool (the narrowly missed out on the title under Rogers) and importantly a more stable squad. They haven’t had the upheaval we’ve experienced since SAF retired (maybe because they’ve been mediocre for so long and had the upheaval 20-25 years ago).

We can back and forth all night, and I doubt we will see eye to eye - but the point for me is we don’t know if Ole can win with THIS squad because it hasn’t happened yet. We don’t know if another manager could get more from them. Ole has not been and is not an utter disaster for this club, quite the opposite and thus deserves his shot this season. If we haven’t won anything by May then by all means let’s look at who is available, but unless we tank from here on it’s just unfair and premature to kick him out when he has done more good than bad.

 

[imanshole]

What more must Klopp do to not be compared to this guy?

 

[Plant0x84]

Imagine using stats to justify that Ole is on par with Klopp

If not through statistics, how else do you compare our manager and his peers?

 

[pocco]

Does anybody remember the team Klopp inherited? I'm not saying we were brilliant, but our team was still levels above what he had to work with.

In fact,the more I think about it the more this comparison looks pretty bad for Ole.

Klopp equalled Ole's record, achueved using a team that finished second place the season before, with this team below as a starting point...

 

[ayushreddevil9]

If not through statistics, how else do you compare our manager and his peers?

The quality of football that they serve, the decisions that they make on the pitch in regards to how they change the game and of course, titles.

 

[Winrar]

My god, we've really become RAWK with the alternative stats nonsense...

 

[Hansi Fick]

I’d have to assume Ole could have won the league too with the squad available at City

Nope, he couldn't have. They'd never have hired him.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Pep joined a PL winning team with a CL challenging squad. He still hasn’t won the CL with City, which is arguably what he was bought in to do. Does that make him a failure? I’d have to assume Ole could have won the league too with the squad available at City, and the momentum built by Mancini and Pellegrini, but no he had to rebuild our depleated, below par and demoralised squad which was torn apart by LVG, and ground into the floor by Mourinho.

As for Tuchel, Chelsea were already in the Round of 16 by the time he took over. Granted they beat Atlético, Porto and Real on the way to the final, but the squad was built by Lampard (spending an absolute fortune even during the pandemic) and he had done a lot of the leg work in the group stages. This is compatible with Chelseas other CL winning manager, Robert Di Matteo, who also took over during the round of 16. You could argue his achievement was greater as he had to turn around a 3-1 first leg defeat, and had to come from behind on aggregate vs Barcelona with Terry having been sent off. I don’t think for one minute you would argue RDM is a better coach than Tuchel?

And to Klopp. A quick google backs up the head to head between Ole and Jurgen. (As I’m sure it would ‘prove’ just about any other view point)

You should do a quick google on the first XI Klopp put out for Liverpool:

Mignolet
Clyne-Skrtel-Sakho-Moreno
Milner-Leiva-Can
Lallana-Origi-Coutinho

Just for comparison's sake, here's the first XI Ole put out for United:

De Gea
Young-Jones-Lindelof-Shaw
Herrera-Matic-Pogba
Lingard-Martial-Rashford

Methinks one of these is a helluva lot more shit, and it ain't United.

 

[Plant0x84]

The quality of football that they serve, the decisions that they make on the pitch in regards to how they change the game and of course, titles.

Ok, fair enough. But I bet you need stats to quantify those attributes.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Ok, fair enough. But I bet you need stats to quantify those attributes.

If you ‘need’ stats to show you they play better football then the sport isn’t for you.

 

[the_cliff]

How about we also add in the level of investment each manager has had to get a better idea. Obviously I mean in net, as Liverpool sold Coutinho and we sold Lukaku, but I'm expecting a stark contrast in the level of investment over the same time period.

 

[Plant0x84]

You should do a quick google on the first XI Klopp put out for Liverpool:

Mignolet
Clyne-Skrtel-Sakho-Moreno
Milner-Leiva-Can
Lallana-Origi-Coutinho

Just for comparison's sake, here's the first XI Ole put out for United:

De Gea
Young-Jones-Lindelof-Shaw
Herrera-Matic-Pogba
Lingard-Martial-Rashford

Methinks one of these is a helluva lot more shit, and it ain't United.

Sorry, it’s late - genuinely you’ve lost me. I don’t disagree but I don’t get the point you’re making? Klopp is a better manager because he lost his first game with a shit team? Why are you talking about 1 game only?

 

[Plant0x84]

If you ‘need’ stats to show you they play better football then the sport isn’t for you.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Sorry, it’s late - genuinely you’ve lost me. I don’t disagree but I don’t get the point you’re making? Klopp is a better manager because he lost his first game with a shit team? Why are you talking about 1 game only?

Because that's the level of side that Klopp inherited versus Ole - so comparisons of their winning percentage from their first X games are a bit disingenuous given the talent disparity, that's all I'm saying.

 

[Plant0x84]

Because that's the level of side that Klopp inherited versus Ole - so comparisons of their winning percentage from their first X games are a bit disingenuous given the talent disparity, that's all I'm saying.

Fair enough, I agree with that. It’s another example of ‘fahcts’ being skewed to suit a narrative. It swings both ways.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Fair enough, I agree with that. It’s another example of ‘fahcts’ being skewed to suit a narrative. It swings both ways.

On that we can firmly agree mate! Stats without context are pointless at best and lead to dangerous conclusions at worst.

 

[Plant0x84]

How about we also add in the level of investment each manager has had to get a better idea. Obviously I mean in net, as Liverpool sold Coutinho and we sold Lukaku, but I'm expecting a stark contrast in the level of investment over the same time period.

Ok, according to LFC history.com Jürgen Klopp bought 30 players for £553,450,000.
The Mirror reports that Ole has spent £441m to date.
It goes on to quote a figure of £920m for Pep at City also on 30 players.
You’d have to argue on those figures Liverpool has done the best job in the market, identifying ‘ ‘unknown’ gems and getting them for a decent price.

 

[Foxbatt]

I don't delve heavily into stats but I would imagine he would be on par with Fergie at the same stage of managing Utd.

If my memory serves me right Fergie's first game was away at Oxford and we lost 3-1. To make matters worse Fergie lost his temper when he found out that there was someone in the dugout whom he has not seen before. When he found out it was the coach driver ( Big Ron used to let him sit there) Fergie lost it completely.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Watch a couple of games of our contemporaries from this season then watch a couple of Uniteds. If you ‘need’ to see the stats to tell you they on the whole play better football then you’re watching the wrong sport. You don’t need xG to tell you Citeh are better than Norwich so the stats line you’re trying to head down is feeble.

 

[the_cliff]

Ok, according to LFC history.com Jürgen Klopp bought 30 players for £553,450,000.
The Mirror reports that Ole has spent £441m to date.
It goes on to quote a figure of £920m for Pep at City.

That does sound like it's a total for Klopp, was wondering in the same 3 year period as to accurately compare.

 

[RooneyLegend]

In Ole we trust, I guess.

 

[tenpoless]

Some surprising stats that show how Ole compares to the almighty Klopp after 162 games...and lo and behold, the Norwegian has a higher win rate.

Missing context. You need to include how Liverpool played during that 162 games, who their players were and how much has Klopp spent in transfer at that period. It's like saying the person who is ahead in the first 1km wins a 10km race.

 

[Plant0x84]

Watch a couple of games of our contemporaries from this season then watch a couple of Uniteds. If you ‘need’ to see the stats to tell you they on the whole play better football then you’re watching the wrong sport. You don’t need xG to tell you Citeh are better than Norwich so the stats line you’re trying to head down is feeble.

Nope. If you’re explaining the PL to somebody who has no knowledge of football you’d show them the table to demonstrate City are better than Norwich, not tell them to go watch 76 games from last season and work it out for themselves. They wouldn’t know what was good bad or indifferent.
Watching football is subjective, and opinions are formed from personal experience. The facts and figures tell the story of what you are watching.

 

[Greck]

My god, we've really become RAWK with the alternative stats nonsense...

The worst part is those stats don't even have them in the same bracket. Are the loss and draw columns invisible on some people's PCs? No wonder they went with win rate. Gross misuse of statistics.

 

[sangria]

That does sound like it's a total for Klopp, was wondering in the same 3 year period as to accurately compare.

Up to and including the summer of 2017, Klopp spent approx 165m (gross). Most of the big signings came later.

 

[DRJosh]

A classic case where statistics don’t always tell the full contextual story. We could overanalyse the current situation to any vaguely reasonable outcome - ultimately interpretation is subjective. The trophy cabinet at United continues to remain with Ole. That’s a fact.

 

[::sonny::]

Liverpool fans fought a lot for having him as a manager

 

[amolbhatia50k]

this thread

 

[Wilt]

I'm awaiting an incredible run of form to 97 and 99 points in the next two seasons then, if he stays as manager.

Plus Champions League

 

[Son]

The sooner he is gone the better because threads like this are embarrassing.

Solskjær’s level is somewhere around the Championship but even then he would still be against better tacticians most weeks.

 

[beer&grill]

If you guys don’t care about context like transfer fees, net spend, initial squads, etc, it’s fine, but I want to see a comparison between Pep and Ole for their first 166 games.

Let me help you, Pep has 71.6% winrate.

Throwing context out on the window, like a true Top Red would do, we can come to these conculsions:

Ole is marginally better than Klopp.
Pep Guardiola is way better than both.

What do we do fellow cul…Ole inners? We proved that Ole is better than Klopp, but unfortunately we don’t get a Better than Klopp trophy, so we still need to distort reali… come up with facts as to why Ole is as good as Pep. Does not being bald count?

 

[Kaos]

Moyes had a higher win percentage in his first (only) season with United than Klopp did at this first season with Liverpool. Its a nonsensical comparison completely devoid of context.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

How about this stat?

I have lost count on how many times I have fallen asleep while watching Ole's United.

Klopp play exciting modern attacking football right from the start. After 3 years, Ole still can't implement a style of play let alone attacking football which he promised when promoted from interim to permanent manager.

 

[elmo]

Remove Europa league games and Ole's wins drop a lot.