Ole & United vs. Frank & Chelsea: who will have the better season?

Womp

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Always thought Lampard would be a good manager, iirc he's supposedly very intelligent. He always came across pretty knowledgeable on the game in his punditry too.
 

Pennywise

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Chelsea's squad is miles ahead of ours in quality. Coupled with the fact Lampard actually has a plan and it's not really a difficult one
 

veteranMortal

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Chelsea look sound. I'd say that's probably because they've managed their youth better than United - did you just get unlucky, and have a few years of duds from the academy? There's a 3/4 year gap between Rashford and Greenwood, which seems weird.
 

cesc's_mullet

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Always thought Lampard would be a good manager, iirc he's supposedly very intelligent. He always came across pretty knowledgeable on the game in his punditry too.
Yeah he's supposedly extremely intelligent.
 

blue blue

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Yeah he's supposedly extremely intelligent.
He has an IQ of 150 putting him in the top .5% people who are the most intelligent. Einstein had an IQ of 160.

Intelligence and people skills are different so maybe Ole is stronger in the latter.
 

Fussball13251

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You look at the patterns of play Lampard has imprinted on his side and the tempo, enthusiasm running through that squad - he’s clearly a coach with talent. Not the finished article by any means but his future is bright and by each passing week the gap between him and someone like Ole increasing at a rapid rate.

Lampard seems to actually have a vision and direction - Ole seems to have a vague idea of pressing and running and that is about it at this stage.
much better players at chelsea. tactics need time to grow. this jorginho player is lightyears ahead of fred.
 

Fussball13251

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nevermind derby county. the tactics are starting to take shape under better players. they will score 5 vs newcastle.
 

blue blue

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Ole grew up a Liverpool fan so obviously he's not going to be the sharpest knife in the drawer.
Look at all the different managers Frank played under. I'm not sure but Ole probably only played under SAF. I know he was good but he ruled with a rod of iron,(and a hairdryer) and Frank has seen much more than that.

The general consensus is that Frank is doing well but the young players could potentially lose a bit of confidence with a couple of bad results and its a long season. I'm excited by how it has worked out so far and am trying to keep a lid on things but it's hard when the team are playing attacking football and showing so much promise. If he, and Jody Morris, can continue to integrate the young guns into the team it could be good times ahead and comparisons with the class of '92 may not be too far off the mark. After the first match or so I had serious concerns and thought there were too many young players but with Abraham scoring the way he is and Mount chipping in I can't complain. To be honest I don't share Southgate's confidence in Mount and have thought on few occasions that he has drifted out of games. I know that is harsh but I can't help but feel CHO will do better in that position. Pulisic has more to come and Frank has got his work cut out to keep them all happy. We have an abundance of that type of player and need a bit of variation. RLC will help bring a bit of steel to the midfield and he also can push on and score.

I'm having trouble believing this can continue on the current trajectory but with Jody's knowledge of the young players and Franks intelligence and drive the sky is the limit.
 

WeePat

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Look at all the different managers Frank played under. I'm not sure but Ole probably only played under SAF. I know he was good but he ruled with a rod of iron,(and a hairdryer) and Frank has seen much more than that.

The general consensus is that Frank is doing well but the young players could potentially lose a bit of confidence with a couple of bad results and its a long season. I'm excited by how it has worked out so far and am trying to keep a lid on things but it's hard when the team are playing attacking football and showing so much promise. If he, and Jody Morris, can continue to integrate the young guns into the team it could be good times ahead and comparisons with the class of '92 may not be too far off the mark. After the first match or so I had serious concerns and thought there were too many young players but with Abraham scoring the way he is and Mount chipping in I can't complain. To be honest I don't share Southgate's confidence in Mount and have thought on few occasions that he has drifted out of games. I know that is harsh but I can't help but feel CHO will do better in that position. Pulisic has more to come and Frank has got his work cut out to keep them all happy. We have an abundance of that type of player and need a bit of variation. RLC will help bring a bit of steel to the midfield and he also can push on and score.

I'm having trouble believing this can continue on the current trajectory but with Jody's knowledge of the young players and Franks intelligence and drive the sky is the limit.
Steady on mate :lol:
 

ZolaWasMagic

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Thread should be titled "Who will have the better season, Ole or Pochettino"
 

BridgeBanter

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much better players at chelsea. tactics need time to grow. this jorginho player is lightyears ahead of fred.
Jorginho was ridiculed last season. Alot of people had Chelsea finishing outside top 6 with this squad especially after Hazard left.
 

Dancfc

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On a sort of unrelated note has anyone else noticed how quiet the media and general football population have become on the "Kante is a DM" garbage ever since Lampard's done the very awkward thing of using him and Jorginho (when he plays 4-3-3) the exact same way Sarri did :lol:
 

UweBein

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Jorginho was ridiculed last season. Alot of people had Chelsea finishing outside top 6 with this squad especially after Hazard left.
I can still See that happening.
We have not achieved anything, yet.
 

freeurmind

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On a sort of unrelated note has anyone else noticed how quiet the media and general football population have become on the "Kante is a DM" garbage ever since Lampard's done the very awkward thing of using him and Jorginho (when he plays 4-3-3) the exact same way Sarri did :lol:
Football pundits are the fecking worst. ESPN FC probably top of the list with the British ones not far behind. Even the fan channels give better analysis.
 

Mark Pawelek

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It always going to be Frank. Chelsea's football success strategy has built a huge squad of good quality reserves. They have about 40 players on loan to other clubs. During the summer they all come home and the manager can select his squad from the coming year based on their loan performance over the last year. United had about 12 players on loan last season and only Tuanzebe was selected to join the squad for the current campaign. With United's net summer transfer budget less than £50m/season and MUFC management resigning inferior players on longer contracts, this Chelsea strategy works. Chelsea are hardly even noticing they have a transfer ban.

New FIFA rules aim to end this Chelsea dodge, but Chelsea will benefit from it for years to come.

In contrast: Ole began the season with too few senior pros (not even 25 fit players), with 25% of his squad were inferior to other clubs squad players; hardly even relegation standard.
 

Dancfc

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Football pundits are the fecking worst. ESPN FC probably top of the list with the British ones not far behind. Even the fan channels give better analysis.
I honestly find it mind-blowing how all these pundits have played and in some cases managed yet have so little understanding of the game.

A lot of people genuinely rely on these people to help them understand the game better so by doing this they're producing many simplistic idiots in the general population.

When I listen to the punditry on other sports it genuinely saddens me, football pundits look like they're doing a cbeebies show by comparison.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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Never mind about tactic. They have much much better attacking mid & deeper midfield than us. I have said this before that they have better midfield & attacking mid while we have better defense. You could argue that their striker is currently looks better with stats but I'm sure Rashford & Martial could score same amount of goals or may be more goals than Abraham if they play with Chelsea right now.

They have creative & playmaker deep midfield like Kovacic & Jorginho, while we have McTomminay, Fred & Matic. Only Pogba will make it into their midfield.

They have Mount, Odoi, Pulisic while we have Pereira, Lingard & Mata.

What I see from Chelsea this season wasn't they are being clinical but they can create a lot of chances. Which something we are unable to do since there is no quality in our midfield area.
 

blue blue

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Never mind about tactic. They have much much better attacking mid & deeper midfield than us. I have said this before that they have better midfield & attacking mid while we have better defense. You could argue that their striker is currently looks better with stats but I'm sure Rashford & Martial could score same amount of goals or may be more goals than Abraham if they play with Chelsea right now.

They have creative & playmaker deep midfield like Kovacic & Jorginho, while we have McTomminay, Fred & Matic. Only Pogba will make it into their midfield.

They have Mount, Odoi, Pulisic while we have Pereira, Lingard & Mata.

What I see from Chelsea this season wasn't they are being clinical but they can create a lot of chances. Which something we are unable to do since there is no quality in our midfield area.
Chelsea's defence has been the weak point so far this season but that has improved with two clean sheets in the last two games. The defence should further improve when Rudiger comes back and apparently that will be soon. At that point I would hope Chelsea's defence then becomes better than Utd's.

Pogba is a conundrum. Quality wise he could get into Chelsea's team but what is he. He's not a prolific goal scoring midfielder but can dominate large areas of the pitch if he's up for it. Is he a possesion winner or a creative player? Maybe all of the above but he lacks a bit of identitiy. For me Kante is the better player because he always performs and has a better engine.

I know this could appear biased but I think quality wise it's difficult to put any Utd player in the CFC team other than De Gea. Chelsea also have a bit more depth in the squad but they definitely lack experience and this is where things could go awry as the season progresses.

Right now I would say Frank's Chelsea will have the better season.

The above comments are purely an opinion and offence should not be taken.
Any complaints should firstly be reconsidered after reviewing the Premier
and Champions League tables and then fully explained in writing.
 

mitchmouse

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I think the answer is already obvious but, as others point out, Chelsea's squad is way ahead of ours
 

Snow

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Chelsea have been buying a lot of young players for a lot of money for many years now and those have all been loaned out. Those players are usually forgotten, pretty much written off.

Andreas Christensen played 2 seasons as a starter in the Bundesliga before he starting playing properly for Chelsea.
Zouma was bought, got to play a bit but then had two full seasons with other clubs in the Premier League.
Mount has a full season in Holland and in the Championship.
Reece James has a full season in the Championship.
Tomori has 2+ in the Championship.

Chelsea had striker problems last season. What do they have now?
Abraham who has 1 season in the PL and 48 goals in two seasons in the Championship.
Batshuayi who was jerked around after his purchased but then got solid loan moves at Dortmund, Palace and Valencia in the past 2 seasons. Consistenly got playtime for the nr. 1 ranked national team in the world.

That's 7 young players that I've mentioned that aren't Jorginho, Kante, Barkley, Kovacic, Pedro, Willian, Rüdiger, Azpilicueta, Pulisic. Aside from Rüdiger I could see all of them start for United. There's also Loftus-Cheek but he's always injured.

Now how does this compare to United?
McTominay, Garner, Chong, Gomes, Williams. None of them have been loaned out or played first team football anywhere else but at United. They're not coming into the team as 20-21 year olds with some experience gained. Dalot had only 8 games under his belt for Porto.

Pereira had 2 seasons in La Liga
Fosuh-Mensah had 2 season in the PL
Tuanzebe had two seasons in the Championship.
These are the only ones with any experience of the young players.

Lindelöf and Bailly only had one and half season of proper football before we bought them. Lindelöf has more experience now but Bailly only has 50 career league games. He almost has as many caps. Wan-Bissaka has played 1 season, so has Daniel James. Luke Shaw is in his 6th season with us yet he's only played 15 games more than in his 2 seasons with Southampton. Rojo has the same amount of games in the same amount of time. Rashford is 21.

Take Pogba, De Gea, Young, Mata and Matic out of the question and what are we left with? The only experienced players are Maguire, Lingard, Fred, Jones and Rojo and they vary in quality. There's very little experience in the side. Not much of a winning mentality.
When SAF won it with kids despite it not being possible according to Hansen. But did he? Schmeichel, Bruce, Pallister, Irwin, Cantona, Cole, Keane. That was the spine that the kids were built around. Kids that had also been training with Kanchelskis, Parker, Ince, Hughes, McClair. If you look at that spine what we're missing are Cantona, Keane and Cole. Talisman top attacker, the goalscorer and the midield leader/rock.

If you want to compare winners in the team we have 5x PL (Jones, De Gea and Young x1, Matic x2).
Mata won the CL.
Pogba won the Italian league x4 and the WC with France.
Matic x1 and Lindelöf x2 won the Portuguese league
Rojo won the Argentinia league once.

Then there's the LVG FA Cup and Mourinho EL and LC.

That's not a lot. Chelsea has 8 players with them that won the PL there. They've also won the EL and FA Cup recently. Basically their squad is very similar to us but also edge us in every single way. Young players but more experienced. Some titles, just more titles. Better spine. More depth.
 

nore1975

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Lampard has made a good start at Chelsea. All the more impressive considering they couldn’t sign anyone and lost their best player Hazard.
Lampard's job is more continuity than rebuild. Even allowing for the transfer ban.
Ole is trying to rebuild his side. He has made good signings but it’s a long road which will require patience from both the board and supporters.
 

Handré1990

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Lampard has made a good start at Chelsea. All the more impressive considering they couldn’t sign anyone and lost their best player Hazard.
Lampard's job is more continuity than rebuild. Even allowing for the transfer ban.
Ole is trying to rebuild his side. He has made good signings but it’s a long road which will require patience from both the board and supporters.
I’ve been thinking about this myself, and agree. Sarri, for all his faults, got them to the CL and implemented a much more possession heavy, controlling play style. Which I think is a much better starting point. Doesn’t really excuse our game in perpetuity though. Now, hopefully, with a run of games where we can field something closer to our 1st XI we have to start performing better.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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Chelsea's defence has been the weak point so far this season but that has improved with two clean sheets in the last two games. The defence should further improve when Rudiger comes back and apparently that will be soon. At that point I would hope Chelsea's defence then becomes better than Utd's.

Pogba is a conundrum. Quality wise he could get into Chelsea's team but what is he. He's not a prolific goal scoring midfielder but can dominate large areas of the pitch if he's up for it. Is he a possesion winner or a creative player? Maybe all of the above but he lacks a bit of identitiy. For me Kante is the better player because he always performs and has a better engine.

I know this could appear biased but I think quality wise it's difficult to put any Utd player in the CFC team other than De Gea. Chelsea also have a bit more depth in the squad but they definitely lack experience and this is where things could go awry as the season progresses.

Right now I would say Frank's Chelsea will have the better season.

The above comments are purely an opinion and offence should not be taken.
Any complaints should firstly be reconsidered after reviewing the Premier
and Champions League tables and then fully explained in writing.
I think it's biased.

Pretty sure Pogba, Maguire & Martial also could. May be James, Rashford & Bissaka in debate. Like I said before you are only ahead of us in midfield & attacking mid. The number 1 reason we are struggling because we don't have enough creative player in midfield to create chances. Put Abraham in our squad, he won't score more than 2 goals in open play so far because we aren't creating chances for our strikers.
 

2mufc0

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Young players are improving under Lampard too, let's see if he can keep it up.
 

André Dominguez

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I guess the saying "It's not how you start that's important, but how you finish" makes full sense on this thread atm.
 

Infra-red

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This thread is going to age about as well as the Hazard vs Sanchez one from January 2018. Fairly clear at this point who is doing a better job and the season trajectories look starkly different.
 

UpWithRivers

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It might be a new manager bounce and it was a more stable team when he took over but he lost his best player in Hazard, had a transfer ban, has 1 year experience at Championship level and is relying on youngsters. Lets face it -at the moment he is kicking Oles arse. The old guard CB's are not there anymore and he has Zouma and Tamouri two young players doing well with a young keeper as well. The attack has also been obliterated or should be without Hazard but Mount, Abraham and Obi are playing really well. Kovacic and Jorginho are experienced but lets not forget they have generally been sht for Chelsea. Kante is a beast though. The problems for both managers I would say are equal. Lampard and Chelsea have not been walking around saying 3 years. We need time. After the United defeat they just manned up and improved. And even though we hammered them you could see already that they had a plan, a system, a style. Here we are with nothing, mumbling about 3 years. Pumping fists at a pathetic 1 nil win to an atrocious Partisan team who run us over in the second half and put our 80 mil defender on his arse about 3 times. Ole changed from his winning 4-3-3 to 4-2-3-1 and now looks like he is trying 5 at the back. Cant attack, cant create chances. No player has improved. Can barely win. Cant score more 1 goal. They wont beat us though. Probably 1-1.
 

AlwaysRed66

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If you swapped them around you would probably find Lampard would still do the better job. Not surprising as he is the better manager.
 

passing-wind

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If you swapped them around you would probably find Lampard would still do the better job. Not surprising as he is the better manager.
I think people look at Chelsea's squad too much and away from the influence that Lampard has with the players at his disposal. There are coaches out there who if given the same resources would mismanage the current bunch and have them underperforming.

Last season the likes of Barkley, Jorginho, Kante, Alonso and Christensen got criticism for their performances. Kovacic / Loftus-cheek from my knowledge hardly played consistently. So Chelsea losing their most prolific player and becoming at present a competitive top four team is down to Lampard's ability to cultivate development beyond the present circumstances of a transfer ban, making the best use of his chances by improving key individual players.

When it comes to the "capabilities" of our squad Rashford, Martial, AWB, Maguire, Lindlelof, De Gea and Pogba for me would get into that Chelsea team. So the question for me is if you give Lampard this United team, would we be in a better position than anything we are currently witnessing under Ole ?

The difference with United fans and Solskjaer, is that the cure to many is to buy an entire new starting 11 somehow hoping it will change the direction of alienating many of the teams weaknesses (phases of play, philosophy, attacking shape, movement, chance creation). However I believe many of those issues specific issues lies with the responsibility of the coaches, so the formula of better players = better results is not true.
 

Theafonis

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I know this could appear biased but I think quality wise it's difficult to put any Utd player in the CFC team other than De Gea. Chelsea also have a bit more depth in the squad but they definitely lack experience and this is where things could go awry as the season progresses.

Right now I would say Frank's Chelsea will have the better season.

The above comments are purely an opinion and offence should not be taken.
Any complaints should firstly be reconsidered after reviewing the Premier
and Champions League tables and then fully explained in writing.
I’d take AWB and Martial into the starting line up.
 

Dancfc

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I think it's biased.

Pretty sure Pogba, Maguire & Martial also could. May be James, Rashford & Bissaka in debate. Like I said before you are only ahead of us in midfield & attacking mid. The number 1 reason we are struggling because we don't have enough creative player in midfield to create chances. Put Abraham in our squad, he won't score more than 2 goals in open play so far because we aren't creating chances for our strikers.
I agree with Pogba and (in form) Martial but I disagree about Maguire. I rate him as a player but I feel he lacks the recovery pace that is crucial in our system.
 

Untd55

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I always thought that Lampard would become a good manager. He has also managed successfully at a higher level than Solskjaer; he did very well with Derby and just missed out on relegation. On the other hand, Solskjaer relegated Cardiff and would have got them relegated from the Championship.

He has been tested more in a single year than Solskjaer has been in nine years. It has taken him a few months to implement his system at Chelsea; he has brought in three youth players into the first team; he has the team scoring goals and, most importantly, being entertaining to watch.

In comparison, Solskjaer has had half a season worth of games as permanent manager and been here for almost a year in total. He has failed to implement any system; he has taken the team down by 8 places in the Premier League; the team doesn't score and is not great at defending, despite the investment. He has failed to integrate youth into the first team like he said he would.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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I agree with Pogba and (in form) Martial but I disagree about Maguire. I rate him as a player but I feel he lacks the recovery pace that is crucial in our system.
Pace is such an overrated excuse. Hummels has no pace and he's fine with it. It's the same with Maguire. No way Tomori, Zouma & Christense are currently better than Maguire that he can't make it into Chelsea's defense.
 

Fosu-Mens

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During our 4-0 victory over Chelsea the passing Chelsea played with through the midfield was direct and high risk. This has been adjusted and they are now functioning. OGS, on the other hand, has not been able to change anything tactically since JMs time at the club, and one can wonder if they are told to play as they did under their previous manager.
 

ZolaWasMagic

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We will have the better season IMO. Ole is out of his depth, should never have had the job. Look at the way both sides play right now, only one is showing signs of what the manager wants, and it isnt Utd
 

Seij

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We will have the better season IMO. Ole is out of his depth, should never have had the job. Look at the way both sides play right now, only one is showing signs of what the manager wants, and it isnt Utd
Nah, Ole just needs 5 more years to build his team and any losses during the rebuild is not his fault.