Ole & United vs. Frank & Chelsea: who will have the better season?

AC1689

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Absolute lols at the gimps saying it’s unfair to compare Ole and Frank at this stage in the season. As if Frank has an easier scenario at Chelsea having lost their talisman and a transfer ban. Or that it’s his “honeymoon” period. Chelsea have a clear identity and game plan whenever you watch them. Something we are severely lacking.

The delusion levels in here are beyond laughable.
 

nokillingmoths

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Not everyone.
Me in July when arguing that the likes of Leicester, Wolves and Everton might be close to us, never mind Chelsea:
Who would have thought your prediction of 4th to 8th was over estimating the squad by a distance.
 

LJJT

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Absolute lols at the gimps saying it’s unfair to compare Ole and Frank at this stage in the season. As if Frank has an easier scenario at Chelsea having lost their talisman and a transfer ban. Or that it’s his “honeymoon” period. Chelsea have a clear identity and game plan whenever you watch them. Something we are severely lacking.

The delusion levels in here are beyond laughable.
Go fecking support Chelsea then if your so in love with Lampard
 

Deglobalise Football

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Absolute lols at the gimps saying it’s unfair to compare Ole and Frank at this stage in the season. As if Frank has an easier scenario at Chelsea having lost their talisman and a transfer ban. Or that it’s his “honeymoon” period. Chelsea have a clear identity and game plan whenever you watch them. Something we are severely lacking.

The delusion levels in here are beyond laughable.
By any chance were you one of the people on here saying Ole was a better manager than current Mourinho, when Ole/United was on the winning run?
 

Leftback99

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5 of their starting 11 today would walk into our team. The other 6 are on par with the rest of ours. So they are far stronger man for man. We would have possibly 2 players get in this Chelsea team
It's when putting together a 3rd team from the two squads the real difference would show. First XIs there's not much in it for me.
 

dove

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How many of our team would get in Chelsea’s? Maguire? Pogba? No one else
You serious? Our entire back 4 would get into their team, also Pogba and Martial. Chelsea's squad is not better than ours but they just play to their abilities unlike us.
 

Handré1990

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I don't know how anyone looks at their squad and thinks we're on a par. So many options compared to us. A £60m winger that barely gets a game.
Yeah. Even now, some of their important players won the league with Chelsea. Still, have to give Lampard credit. I thought they’d struggle for sure after Hazard left.
 

LJJT

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You serious? Our entire back 4 would get into their team, also Pogba and Martial. Chelsea's squad is not better than ours but they just play to their abilities unlike us.
Alonso a better left back than shaw, Azpi been best right back in prem since he arrived. Centre backs, yes I agree Maguire. Lindelof is a maybe. Martial wouldn’t get in this team but yes pogba would. There keeper is as good as ours if not better, their midfield 2/3 is better than ours , mount is better than any attacking mid we have, William better right winger than we have, Abraham better than Rashford. Their squad is better than ours.
 

dove

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Alonso a better left back than shaw, Azpi been best right back in prem since he arrived. Centre backs, yes I agree Maguire. Lindelof is a maybe. Martial wouldn’t get in this team but yes pogba would. There keeper is as good as ours if not better, their midfield 2/3 is better than ours , mount is better than any attacking mid we have, William better right winger than we have, Abraham better than Rashford. Their squad is better than ours.
Stopped reading here, must be a WUM. He is one of the worst left backs in the league.
 

Leftback99

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You serious? Our entire back 4 would get into their team, also Pogba and Martial. Chelsea's squad is not better than ours but they just play to their abilities unlike us.
Pogba, Martial and half of our back 4 have hardly been playing for us recently though.
 

Di Maria's angel

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Alonso a better left back than shaw, Azpi been best right back in prem since he arrived. Centre backs, yes I agree Maguire. Lindelof is a maybe. Martial wouldn’t get in this team but yes pogba would. There keeper is as good as ours if not better, their midfield 2/3 is better than ours , mount is better than any attacking mid we have, William better right winger than we have, Abraham better than Rashford. Their squad is better than ours.
Yup, everyone at our club is shite apart from the manager and its a miracle that he has us hovering above the relegation zone.
 

ZolaWasMagic

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You serious? Our entire back 4 would get into their team, also Pogba and Martial. Chelsea's squad is not better than ours but they just play to their abilities unlike us.
AWB over Azpi? I think not. Lindelof over Rudiger? Not IMO.
 

Renegade

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Alonso a better left back than shaw, Azpi been best right back in prem since he arrived. Centre backs, yes I agree Maguire. Lindelof is a maybe. Martial wouldn’t get in this team but yes pogba would. There keeper is as good as ours if not better, their midfield 2/3 is better than ours , mount is better than any attacking mid we have, William better right winger than we have, Abraham better than Rashford. Their squad is better than ours.
I don’t think you would have said Abraham is better than Rashford last season. Are you suggesting Abraham is better than Martial too?
 

bosnian_red

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I don't know how anyone looks at their squad and thinks we're on a par. So many options compared to us. A £60m winger that barely gets a game.
Tbf, Lampard is making them all play really well. Not to say he's a great manager or whatever, but whatever it is, he suits them right now and is letting them play to their strengths and they're thriving for now. If Ole was capable of doing that here, it would look very different (though lacking the depth and balance IMO, while we have more of the extra star quality in certain areas).
A similar breakdown for us:
GK: De Gea/Romero
RB: Wan Bissaka/Dalot
CB: Maguire/Lindelof/Tuanzebe/Jones
LB: Shaw/Young
CDM: McTominay/Matic
CM: Pogba/Fred
CAM: Lingard/Mata
Wings: James/Rashford/Pereira/Chong
ST: Martial/Greenwood

Don't think there's any problem with the back 5 in terms of starters and depth tbh. Shaw of course gets injured a lot, but Young is fine as depth as he's shown and past him, Williams has shown potential. The midfield though is where we start to see the problems. Fred has been woeful, so doesn't look usable whatsoever. Matic and Mata are both very pointless these days as well, while Lingard and McTominay probably shouldn't be starters. Signing Maddison and a starter DM would sort that out IMO, but should've been done last summer. The wings are then woeful. James again should probably have come in to the season being depth to start off with, with us buying a starting right winger, and then having the rest rotate for that last wing depth spot is fine. Then striker we really need 1 more person there to be capable of fighting with Martial to be starter (and to be a regular scorer).

It's probably a year too soon for all of Greenwood, Gomes, Chong, Garner and Williams. Ole is excited by their potential, and fair enough, but none of them are ready for premier league football IMO and all would have benefited greatly from at least a year in the championship. Even if they go on loan from January for half a season to develop as players. Chong needs probably 18 months out on loan, Gomes could do a full season, Garner full next season, Williams full next season, and Greenwood at least just the half season. They need to go on loan where they'll play regularly enough at a lower level so they can adapt, learn the responsibilities of playing every week and growing just like how all of Chelsea's youth has now done and Tuanzebe did for us.
 

bosnian_red

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I don’t think you would have said Abraham is better than Rashford last season. Are you suggesting Abraham is better than Martial too?
Wouldn't say he's a better player but what he has shown is a more natural goalscorers touch. Martial and Rashford both haven't been able to nail down the striker position, I think Martial will be able to this season and show that he can be a quality #9, but tbh Abraham til now is more proven as a striker than either.
 

dove

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AWB over Azpi? I think not. Lindelof over Rudiger? Not IMO.
On current form of course not. Our entire team looks shite but I think we have the quality. Underrating of our squad just to excuse our failing manager is quite something here especially since many people written Chelsea off before the season started as apparently "Hazard was carrying Chelsea's shite team and now when he left, they will struggle to get into TOP 6". Now when you got a manager that is not hiding behind "3 year rebuilding job master plan", suddenly Chelsea's squad became great.
 

2mufc0

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Go fecking support Chelsea then if your so in love with Lampard
To be honest any football fan can acknowledge good football, they play attacking football and have a flow to their game.

With us it's difficult to figure what game plan there is if any.
 

el3mel

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Weird how can any manager apply his style from the get go without needing 3 years and 5 transfer windows. Chelsea must be using dark magic because no way a manager can do that according to some here.
 

mu4c_20le

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Absolute lols at the gimps saying it’s unfair to compare Ole and Frank at this stage in the season. As if Frank has an easier scenario at Chelsea having lost their talisman and a transfer ban. Or that it’s his “honeymoon” period. Chelsea have a clear identity and game plan whenever you watch them. Something we are severely lacking.

The delusion levels in here are beyond laughable.
I know nothing can knock you off your high horse at the moment, but Chelsea have always had a clear identity and could literally produce results with any caretaker. They have to, because of their revolving door policy on managers, they are much better run as a club with a clear structure and a balanced squad. So yes, Frank definitely had a much easier scenario at Chelsea.
 

2mufc0

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Wouldn't say he's a better player but what he has shown is a more natural goalscorers touch. Martial and Rashford both haven't been able to nail down the striker position, I think Martial will be able to this season and show that he can be a quality #9, but tbh Abraham til now is more proven as a striker than either.
Way off the mark there, Rashford has been playing for a massive club and internationals for 4 years now. Tammy has been playing the majority of his games in the championship and 1 season in the PL for a crap Swansea team. He's not proven at all compared to Rashford.
 

bosnian_red

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Way off the mark there, Rahsford has been playing for a massive club and internationals for 4 years now. Tammy has been playing the majority of his games in the championship and 1 season in the PL for a crap Swansea team. He's not proven at all.
He's not more proven as a player but is already probably more proven as a #9. Rashford has loads of games, playing all around the attack. Same with Martial. Never nailing down a position, showing great promise but never really looking a natural that you know he'll stay there long term. I'm not saying Abraham is a better player, but if you were to ask who will score more goals, the answer will easily be Abraham. Because he's a natural #9 who scored 25 goals in the championship last year and already now has 8 league goals in 9 or 10 games. Put Rashford as the #9 for them and I don't think he'd score as much because he just doesn't look natural there. He doesn't have a normal strikers movement or style of play. In Liverpool's type of system, in Mane's position, I can see Rashford excelling and developing long term. But he's never had the right environment to improve or the right system around him to get the best out of him.
 

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If we're just taking this season in to account thus far I agree that only Maguire and Pogba (based on talent alone) would get into our best XI from the United team. AWB has been solid defensively but offers basically nil going forward so I wouldn't swap for him.

Our midfield and attack have been light years better so far. And that's without Kante for most of it and RLC (our best player during the run-in last season) for all of it.

Think our defense will improve dramatically once Rüdiger, Kante and Emerson are back for good.
 

amolbhatia50k

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Go fecking support Chelsea then if your so in love with Lampard
You don't have to be "in love" with Lampard to see that based on his start at Chelsea, he's doing a far better job than our manager, and appears to have actual potential.
 

Renegade

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Way off the mark there, Rashford has been playing for a massive club and internationals for 4 years now. Tammy has been playing the majority of his games in the championship and 1 season in the PL for a crap Swansea team. He's not proven at all compared to Rashford.
his simply in form and full of confidence flourishing under a manager with a clear tactical direction and fluid gameplan.
 

fezzerUTD

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This place is comical. Lampard is in his honeymoon phase still just like Ole was in his first 3 months. Lampards taken on a far more complete, well rounded squad and transfer ban and injuries have limited a lot of decisions he’s had to make cos they’ve been made for him. Everyone creaming themselves over how well Lampard is doing vs how Oles doing need to chill out a bit and see how things are looking in a few months time.
Ole's doing so bad he doesn't have a few months time. Seriously how people don't see this is beyond me.
 

amolbhatia50k

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Absolute lols at the gimps saying it’s unfair to compare Ole and Frank at this stage in the season. As if Frank has an easier scenario at Chelsea having lost their talisman and a transfer ban. Or that it’s his “honeymoon” period. Chelsea have a clear identity and game plan whenever you watch them. Something we are severely lacking.

The delusion levels in here are beyond laughable.
Yes. It's basically a bunch of excuses.

I've been very impressed with Lampard. And have felt that way from the first game of the season depsite a 4-0 loss for Chelsea. Hard to say whether he'll genuinely be successful at Chelsea but unless this is all a new manager bump, he appears to be a very talented coach. Really like what I've seen. Seems to be what I wanted Ole to be.
 

hn4manunited

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Frank is definitely coaching them into a good, quick and fluid team. They will need some reinforcements in central defense but they are pretty solid elsewhere. They don’t have superstars but solid players who are being coached into playing good solid football as a team. They all know what to do and when to do it.
 

amolbhatia50k

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This place is comical. Lampard is in his honeymoon phase still just like Ole was in his first 3 months. Lampards taken on a far more complete, well rounded squad and transfer ban and injuries have limited a lot of decisions he’s had to make cos they’ve been made for him. Everyone creaming themselves over how well Lampard is doing vs how Oles doing need to chill out a bit and see how things are looking in a few months time.
It could be a honeymoon period for sure. But it also may just be that he's a far better football manager. His imprint on Chelsea is more evident and exciting than Oles have ever been at United. Even when Ole had that purple patch run, something he's been living off since, the tactical imprint wasn't clear and we tended to win due to counter attacks or at times ,luck. The football wasnt really all that progress. And of course it's been an absolute abomination of a managerial stint since be got the main gig. With Lampard, he's got chelsea proper front foot football, while developing youth.

The stuff about better squad and all is rubbish.