Welcome to the internet my friend. Nuance doesn’t exist. You can’t simultaneously say Ole was a decent manager while still not being good enough. He either has to be shit or amazing. Same with Ten Hag. He should either be gone already, or he’s a brilliant manager hamstrung by the situation.
Ole when sacked vs Ten Hag currently
- Thread starter Scandi Red
- Start date
According to footystats.org Ole's stats for 2021/22 were fewer points per game than Rangnick. And Ole was in his fourth season at United. Rangnick had 6 months and feck all money. Not sure how you come to the conclusion that RR was 'far worse'?
Yeah, you’re right. My bad. Ralf Rangnick was an excellent coach and manager. We looked far far better than Ole ever had us looking. We should conveniently ignore quality of opponents in each manager’s schedule, the fact that Ole’s win record was better than Ralf’s, even in the 21-22 season. We should ignore that footy stats doesn’t account for cup games. We should further ignore that Ralf had a fecking assistant coach in fecking Russia creating our tactics for each game off of video, installing tactics too late in the week for quality prep.
Ole wasn’t up to the standard set by SAF, but he was much better than that fraud Ralf Rangnick.
Why people are even talking about the manager when the Glazer’s have just scared away perhaps the best investment we could ever get boggles my mind.
Ten Hag is the one guy I’d defintiely keep. He’s a good manager as he proved last season.
Ten Hag is the one guy I’d defintiely keep. He’s a good manager as he proved last season.
Problem is he's a chequebook manager by the looks of it. Spent loads and needs to spend even more, apparently, before we'll start to look good. Which doesn't bode well as many said SJR can't afford to back United like Jassim. Apparently.
I can see some promising signs personally. Hojlund fair play is looking a beast and we can finally now have a deep lying playmaker in Amrabat.
He almost won two trophies and got 3rd last season with no striker. We’ve needed a great playmaker to control games, a back 4 and a better attack then I’ll judge him.
Our attack is utterly shocking currently. Players are either non existent due to mental issues, lack regular goalscoring ability or are too young. Antony was his fault sure but your allowed one or two mistakes.
The keeper ticked many boxes when we signed him but sometimes transfers don’t work out. Wouldn’t put that on the manager all us fans said yeah sure looks a good footballer about Onana.
De Jong, Kane and Kim aren’t at United too which we can tell didn’t help ten Hag out one bit. Most of his main transfer targets he doesn’t seem to have.
Seriously, just ignoring the strength of schedule, Ole’s record before the season, and the fact that footy stats gives Rangnick credit for a draw in the FA Cup, when we actually lost on penalties, is ridiculous.
His choices for asst coaches, his handling of the dressing room, his lack of prep for the Liverpool match… the list goes on and on. Ole wasn’t good enough, and I agree with that, but this bullshit about Rangnick being a good manager and a good fit for United has to stop.
The Athletic: https://theathletic.com/3326843/202...de-ralf-rangnick-spell-interim-manager/?amp=1
I haven't even made that argument (in fact I don't think you'll find anyone saying he was a 'good fit for United' so why claim otherwise?), I literally just asked what metric you were using to claim that RR was 'much worse' than Ole, given that his points per game were higher than Ole's were for the first half of the season. You appear to want to use Ole's record in the previous year as evidence, but that seems a little unfair given that RR was only at the club for 6 months, and given that he took over a team in absolute freefall due to the poor management of his predecessor. The truth is - in terms of results - both were pretty fecking awful during the season in question, and if you want to make the argument that RR was 'much worse' then that surely means that Ole's performance that season was 'much better', and it's surely hard to state that?
The job of a succeeding manager is to improve results from their predecessor. That’s the job. Ole did it when he took over. Even after Ole’s worst run as manager, where you cherry pick the 17 matches of that season, ignoring previous record, Ralf was still WORSE.
Hell, Ten Hag did much better than Ralf with essentially the same team, save Licha.
You asked for the reporting on Ralf’s incompetence in installing tactics, I gave it to you, yet you don’t mention it in your response. It’s fine, I’ve come to terms with the fact that because Ralf wears glasses, looks like everyone’s favorite uncle, and speaks intelligently, he’s a “good manager”, better than Ole. Well for someone who’s been in mostly DoF positions recently, has 30+ years of experience managing football clubs, yet has managed one measly trophy after all of those years, he was woefully under qualified.
You know when a manager/team has reached the point of no return and the only option is to change managers, we are clearly not at that point with ETH, he still has the dressing room (for the main part) and there are players bedding in, injured and coming back from injury.... the irony would be to sack ETH just as Licha, Mainoo, Shaw, AWB return these players would be making a huge difference right now, lets face it if we had Shaw fit he would have been playing CB in front of the shite we have seen
How was Ole first 6 months compared to Ralfs?
This is a very pointless circular debate.
I sometimes avoid threads here because I see so many negatives that makes me wonder if we are can of the club. Any body comparing OLE and ETH clearly has to be looked with bewildment
That you have decided to contribute to
. When comparing managers we don't usually look to the first 6 months of the outgoing manager's record - that would be weird.And yet the team managed more points per game than they were doing under Ole in the first half of the season? Just admit they were both shite that season and we can both get on with our lives
Well, plus Casemiro, Antony, Eriksen and Malacia - other than that you are spot on. But don't try and move this into a RR vs ETH debate, that would be frankly mental.
You gave me a report that included a lot of hearsay, most likely emanating from disgruntled/sidelined players or coaching staff. Take that as solid evidence if you like - similarly most people would admit that we didn't see much in the way of tactical ability in 3 years of Ole either...
I presume you apply this same rigid logic to his time at Cardiff?
So in your tabulation on footy stats, Ralf gets credit for a draw in the FA cup when it was a penalty shootout loss… so… that would be one point less, wouldn’t it? ‘They were both shite, but win % , points per game (using your method but correctly tabulated) and eye test favor Ole. Taking all of Ole’s career at United, it’s not even close, his record was much better than Ralf. Seriously, we were awful under Ole that season, but we were much worse under Ralf IMHO.And yet the team managed more points per game than they were doing under Ole in the first half of the season? Just admit they were both shite that season and we can both get on with our lives
Well, plus Casemiro, Antony, Eriksen and Malacia - other than that you are spot on. But don't try and move this into a RR vs ETH debate, that would be frankly mental.
You gave me a report that included a lot of hearsay, most likely emanating from disgruntled/sidelined players or coaching staff. Take that as solid evidence if you like - similarly most people would admit that we didn't see much in the way of tactical ability in 3 years of Ole either...
Casemiro and Licha were the two that contributed the most, agree with that. Antony was shite, Malacia was a back up. Eriksen was good.
I suppose you could ignore the article from the Athletic, except for the fact that it was reported by several different outlets and its contents were never disputed by Ralf. He was relying on a Russian league coach. He was relying on Armas. He did implement a back 3 for the Liverpool match one day before the game. Funny how the “Great Tactician” couldn’t even analyze the upcoming matches himself.
Look, Ole deserved to be sacked. Ralf shouldn’t have been hired. Most of our woes stem from the inept management by the Glazers. I’m done with this back and forth, I’ll never change your mind, you’ll probably continue to think that Ralf was a superior manager to Ole. That’s fine. There are a not insignificant number of people who believe the earth is flat too, so the lesson is that people will believe anything even when there is mountains of evidence that suggest otherwise. Have a good day, mate.
For god's sake man, all I have done is taken issue with your claim that RR was 'much worse' than Ole. You haven't managed to produce any 'mountains of evidence', not least the most useful bit of all - points per game. Even if we discount the point awarded for the FA Cup game that you are so exercised about it still leaves RR slightly in front, or at best level pegging - so where does the 'much worse' bit come in??
Ole at Man United all matches W91 D37 L40 win % 54.17
Ole Man Utd 21/22. W7 D3 L7. Win % 41.18
RR Man Utd 21/22 W11 D 9 L9. Win % 37.93
Facts. Plus eye test. Plus a much easier schedule than Ole. Plus the article basically saying he was a fecking amateur. Ole wasn’t good enough, fine agreed. But that doesn’t mean that Ralf also wasn’t good enough and was worse than Ole. And yes, the earth is round.
These 2 weeks without United was quite refreshing. I'm honestly not ready to return to our shit football and awful results next week.
Is it bad that the international breaks have become the best parts of the season ?
Is it bad that the international breaks have become the best parts of the season ?
Next week? We commence again on Saturday.
Speak for yourself - I fecking hate international breaks and am buzzing for Saturday night. If you really feel like this then maybe it's time to step away?
Which is next week ?
Ole marginally higher win %, RR marginally higher points per game = they were both shite.
Are you Norwegian by any chance? Just wondering why you seem so wound up about this?
eh? Do weeks start on a different day in Egypt?!
Ah, I see. When stats don’t fit your narrative, they become lesser stats. You started out by saying Ralf was a better manager than Ole. Now they are both equally bad. I suppose that’s progress.
BTW, not sure what you are trying to accomplish here. Just scanning down your posts on this thread only, you seem to want to argue for argument’s sake. Bizarre.
Are you OK? I most certainly didn't start off by saying that RR was a better manager than Ole - unless you can find a quote that suggests otherwise? All along I have literally just been arguing that your assertion that RR was 'much worse' than Ole is wide of the mark. Just that.
You've skated over the nationality question - was that just an oversight?
No, I’m not Norwegian. Are you German? Is it relevant? Are you insinuating a race or national bias? Are you here just to argue about inane shit? Do you wear a clown suit? Do you own one or just rent?
For the third time, have a nice day.
OK
Oops.. I forgot that England. Here we start the week on Saturday.
I've checked out of this thread, but this is blowing my mind.
Me too
Ole should have stayed longer.
Update after 10 rounds
Update: Ten Hag only needs 2 points from his next 2 games (vs Fulham and Luton) to equal Ole when he got sacked.
--
Ten Hag currently (After 10 PL rounds):
- 15 points
- Goal difference: -5 (11/16)
- League position: 8
- Points behind top four: 8
Ole after 10 rounds:
- 17 points
- Goal difference: +4 (19/15)
- League position: 5
- Points behind top four: 3
Ole at the time he got sacked (Round 12):
- 17 points
- Goal difference: -1 (20/21)
- League position: 8
- Points behind top four: 6
--
Ten Hag currently (After 10 PL rounds):
- 15 points
- Goal difference: -5 (11/16)
- League position: 8
- Points behind top four: 8
Ole after 10 rounds:
- 17 points
- Goal difference: +4 (19/15)
- League position: 5
- Points behind top four: 3
Ole at the time he got sacked (Round 12):
- 17 points
- Goal difference: -1 (20/21)
- League position: 8
- Points behind top four: 6
Ole back as caretaker when ETH is punted till we get someone in the summer feels inevitable
Until I seen this stat, I forgot how bad those last few months under Ole were. We are defo worse right now. At least we scored a few and tried to create chances. City didn’t get out of 2nd gear today and we didn’t lay a glove on them.
Feck me.
It's worse. 11 goals scored, dear me.
400m later....