Still, most of the time they were ineffective. As said, we can't keep replacing good players with less good players. Else the only way is down not up.
Ole's Press Conference
- Thread starter RedMachine03
- Start date
In pre-season you will only hear positive comments from him, to boost team morale and spirit, and individual player confidence. He did also say that his workrate is better, which highlighted that it wasn't before. What no one asked him, as usual, was why Martial is playing as a #9 and not on the left-wing. It is starting to look like James is replacing Martial on the wing, and with Rashford first choice up front, Martial is shifted to being a squad player.
The fact that they are ineffective comes down to the manager, not the players.
As said, valuable squad players. Butt covered a role ie that of Keane's cover. That was his function and did reasonably well especially at a time when good players rarely accepted the bench. But lets not overrate him in saying that he was highly important because he wasn't. We could have easily won what we won without him.
The least I say about Fletcher the better. The end of his career was nothing short but tragic and he was a way better player then Butt was.
We won because we had all of them. Squad players play an important part of any team's success. If they're either inadequate or half-arsing it - you will feel the consequences of this throughout the length of a campaign. Also one could argue that the squad players we had back then were of such class they would be considered key players elsewhere.
Ah that's BS. Managers do matter to an extent but not even SAF can take a bunch of donkeys to a historic treble win.
We won because we had a brilliant side + committed reserves who were often decent enough to fill their boots for a short period of time. Don't think for one second that Butt could replace Keane or Phil could replace Irwin. Phil nearly cost us the treble against Arsenal (FA cup semi final) with his typical lousy tackle inside the box. Thank god our 2 WC players (Schmeichel and Giggs) saved the day, turning a brainfart into a magnificent goal.
I also feel uncomfortable to pit Fletch with the Butts, the Phils and the Osheas. The former actually had the talent to be more then a reserve. He's more of a Wes then an OShea.
Never argued they could - nor even hinted towards it. I merely pointed out why writing them off as unimportant to our success and trivializing the part they played constitutes bullshit.
But SAF was able to win the league with Cleverley starting.
Squad players are of course important, but far less so than the starting eleven. Herrera wasn't good enough to start for us, so I'm sure as shit Pereira isn't good enough. Maybe McTominay makes it, maybe not. It doesn't matter. A team striving to be at the top doesn't have inexperienced youth players in the starting lineup.
Yeah you're right. Can't win anything with kids - after all
I see it more as a sign of or even hedging for Lukaku leaving.
If Lukaku does leave, Martial will get more minutes at No9 and needs to be comfortable with that position as well.
I would be extremely surprised if OGS starts James before Martial on the left against Chelsea.
EDIT
Its also probably a consequence of Lukaku not taking part in any pre-season games as well.
You can't have 11 world class players unless you're Man City and have an unlimited pool of cash. McTominay has been improving steadily over the last 2 years and I think he's good enough to play CDM this season. He's no Makelele or Kante but he's decent enough that it's not a priority position this window.
No Lukaku again... not that I particularly want him to feature but why isnt he making the effort to get fit? He was widely criticised for being too big last season so would have thought he would put in some extra effort to get fit....
I also note the wording it's not that he's still recovering from injury just that he isn't fit. Everyone else there has been fit enough to play so why not him? He wasn't even allowed extra holiday was he?
Maybe it's a cover up for him not to be used until he's had talks with Inter
I also note the wording it's not that he's still recovering from injury just that he isn't fit. Everyone else there has been fit enough to play so why not him? He wasn't even allowed extra holiday was he?
Maybe it's a cover up for him not to be used until he's had talks with Inter
I suspect Ole doesn't really want to spend time getting him match fit when he's leaving. Better to let the other forwards get all the game time.
Firstly, I'm pretty sure our scouted list of footballers is longer than Sean Longstaff.
Secondly, I don't care about fees, if we aren't spending it on the squad it will be sent on debt interest payments or go in the Glazers pockets.
Not very encouraging stuff.
At this stage I would be glad with selling Lukaku, keeping Pogba and get in Fernandez and Maguire. Not enough at all but at least that would be a start.
At this stage I would be glad with selling Lukaku, keeping Pogba and get in Fernandez and Maguire. Not enough at all but at least that would be a start.
So since Manchester United makes so much money we should just start handing it out to our rivals to keep the Glazers from making money? Never understood this argument, but I guess fair enough.
Maybe a bit of both, but if Lukaku goes, we will sign a replacement, who would probably jump ahead of Martial. Martial really has to work to compete this season.
Yes, lets stop buying players because it will improve our rivals. Let us not buy anyone. Keep the money and give it to the Glazers.
In the future when we try to sign a player from our rivals, we should just hand them a blank check and ask them to fill in a sum, then pay that no matter what it is.
So what's your alternative, we move into next season with the same squad that has failed every season since Fergies retirement?
We cause our own problems by not investing so clubs know we are desperate and hike up the prices. City can afford to walk away from deals because they have a good squad. We don't and we struggle to attract players because of our lack of success and so overpay on wages too. We created this whole environment for ourselves and are now sitting here complaining about it rather than doing anything to change it.
yep
At this rate I'll be pleased with the one transfer. It's fecking madness the situation we find ourselves in and strange that most seem to have just accepted our lack of business.
The top clubs have world class players all over the pitch, the ones that don't have world class managers who can get away with it.
We play our kids.
Wasting your time mate. I used to have this argument with him about Fletcher years ago. He thinks the only players United should have should be ones which everyone would say are world class. Anything less and it's not good enough for him.
Someone the other day pointed out how often Nicky Butt played in midfield with Keane in the treble season. He averaged 38.4 games per season for us over a 10 year period in which we won 6 league titles, 3 FA cups, 1 European cup and an Intercontinental cup.
He played 47 times in the treble season.
But he's just a workhorse who is overvalued by United fans.
Edit: Oh and I see we could apparently have easily won all that without him. Embarrassing that I support the same team as this bloke.
A plan that hasn't worked since 1996 when we had a title winning side to embed them into. Great. You should do some marketing for the Glazers.
Exactly, as it was in April. I think Ole’s tone about him has changed. Hopefully that’s because Martial is doing the right things in the right way.
Even if you don't accept he was United first team quality then surely you must see how important he was given the number of games he played as it means the main guys could be rested or recover from injuries without too much bother.
That’s what I thought first as well. Maybe Im making too much out of it, but if Ole was thinking like that, I doubt he’d have called him a world class player, regardless of the need to create a good atmosphere. At least I wouldn’t want to make the impression I was putting a world class player on the bench while playing James and Rashford. The only reasons I could see for that would be either if he knows he’s going to play Martial and Rasford both, and he want to use the early games to test a few things for the wing positions (how ready are James, Chong, Greenwood and Gomes?) and regardi g the striker role (how much do we need a replacement for Lukaku/how ready is Martial to play that role at a high level is Rashford is out/out of form). But yeah, I am making a meal out of it.
I still have the Treble DVD (one of my favourites
) and it did always strike me just how much Butt played that season, in all competitions. That alone shows you the value he had as an important squad player for us. No one is saying he was as good as X player either, just that he had a lot of worth that was greatly appreciated by the team. Never underestimate the value of having squad players who do the thankless roles to help make other's jobs easier.
Ole doesnt want inter to see him play and then lower the price
Agreed, McT has been great under Ole, under-rated by the majority..
This is why I don't understand people saying DM is more important than CB, I think between McT, Matic, Fred, we should be ok in that position this season?
Took your time getting there!
Fred shouldn't play as a DM, Matic and McT may be but it depends on Matic fitness and mobility or McT continuous development.
Honestly it's not my money. I don't care, spend it on Longstaff if that's the best available option to us.
Nicky Butt did become a first teamer with is, for several seasons.
We'll never win anything ever again if we keep pedalling that once in a lifetime shite.Yeah you're right. Can't win anything with kids - after all