Due to start on March 3rd, scheduled to last 17 days. The prosecution is calling 107 witnesses.
Should be worth following.
Should be worth following.
Oscar Pistorius Trial
- Thread starter Rednotdead
- Start date
Would be amazed if he doesn't go down for this. His story just doesn't add up. Wouldn't be the first time someone famous with a bit of money managed to get away with murder though, I guess.
Yes, if you've got enough money you can, more often than not, "buy" a not guilty verdict. Added to that is the fact that the Police didn't exactly cover themselves in glory in the initial investigation. Hopefully we won't end up with an outrageous OJ Simpson verdict, where everyone knew he did it except the jury.
Paddy Power taking bets on the trial
http://www.paddypower.com/bet/novelty-betting/current-affairs/oscar-pistorius
Classy as ever
http://www.paddypower.com/bet/novelty-betting/current-affairs/oscar-pistorius
Classy as ever
Good grief, bets?
Anyway, the trial will be partially televised. It was due to start at 10AM SA time today but has been delayed due to a lack of an interpreter for Afrikaans language and some nutter who claims she has no surname since it was stolen and that Oscar can't stand trial until she's tested him. High Court judge had to see her in chambers and dismissed her. Waiting now for proceedings to start.
Just so it's clear for those who are not familiar with SA law, there is only one charge in SA which will be read. A charge of murder. However, depending on the evidence that transpires in court, the murder can be proven to be pre meditated or not or it can be shown to have been culpable homicide.
So even if the state fails to show he was guilty of pre-meditated murder, the court can pass judgment on murder or culpable homicide.
These are the grounds that will most likely be argued in court.
Also there is no jury system in SA.
Anyway, the trial will be partially televised. It was due to start at 10AM SA time today but has been delayed due to a lack of an interpreter for Afrikaans language and some nutter who claims she has no surname since it was stolen and that Oscar can't stand trial until she's tested him. High Court judge had to see her in chambers and dismissed her. Waiting now for proceedings to start.
Just so it's clear for those who are not familiar with SA law, there is only one charge in SA which will be read. A charge of murder. However, depending on the evidence that transpires in court, the murder can be proven to be pre meditated or not or it can be shown to have been culpable homicide.
- In the case of murder or pre-meditated murder the state has to show beyond reasonable doubt that the intent to kill was present and was planned in the case of pre meditated murder.
- In the case of culpable homicide the defense will have to show reasonable evidence that the defendant acted reasonably under the perceived threat on his life.
So even if the state fails to show he was guilty of pre-meditated murder, the court can pass judgment on murder or culpable homicide.
These are the grounds that will most likely be argued in court.
Also there is no jury system in SA.
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In uk, to be guilty of murder you only have to satisy that you wanted (or reasonably should have expected) to cause gbh, so for example if you wanted to punch a person but definitely didnt want to kill them, even if jury accept you didnt mean to kill them, you would still be done for murder because you intended gbh. Is that the same in SA? Or do you have to want to kill to be done for murder?
What exactly is culpable homicide? Is that basically saying you killed them but didnt want to hurt them? Which for us is manslaughter...
Why murder her? Why not just break up with her and that's it? Makes no sense. Has the prosecution provided a valid motive for a killing?
I agree, but surely you can say the same thing for the thousands of murders of wives/girlfriends that happen every year.
People can be mad.
Just look at this place on a match day!
Unfortunately for Oscar, there's no jury system in SA
Oscar wants to know if you are available for jury duty!
He hasn't a leg to stand on, IMO.
I don't think I've ever heard a more implausible explanation for shooting someone in my life. I mean, before going ahead and pulling the trigger, firing through a locked door, why not just simply ask 'who's in there?'. It would have taken two seconds.
The neighbours evidence today was pretty damning for him. She was absolutely adamant she heard a womans screams before the shots, and apparently her husband heard them too but he's yet to testify.
The neighbours evidence today was pretty damning for him. She was absolutely adamant she heard a womans screams before the shots, and apparently her husband heard them too but he's yet to testify.
Why wont he talk for himself? Surely he should have too at some point.
There's no jury duty in SA dipshit. What do you reckon was the motive?
Oscar wants to know if you are available for jury duty!
They are supposed to have numerous witnesses who will testify the fact that he was prone to fits of rage. Why he would be so enraged, who knows. He provided an incorrect password to investigators when they attempted to examine his phone
From his plea and admissions to court, it would seem like he will take the stand but this won't happen any time soon. 107 witnesses to be called by the state and the first one is already longer than a day.
In the end, even if the prosecution does not provide a motive, it can still end up being murder since should his version of events be accepted (burglar scenario) then he still fired 4 shots through a closed door not investigating who or what was behind the door. Now, he would know that firing 4 gun shots in an enclosed space such as a bathroom could and probably would kill whoever was behind the door. That's enough for murder (in terms of SA law) IMO.
Are you allowed to kill intruders without warning in South Africa? Will he be done for that anyway even if he didnt intend to murder his gf? Surely you have to shout out "get out of my house or Ill shoot you" before firing?
I saw parts of it while following it on the Guardian live update and she was VERY composed.
And the Oscar goes to... prison.
@Mihajlovic
Why have men been murdering their partners since the start of time?
This is not something unheard of, there are probably ten thousand men in prison around the world who have killed someone that they love in a fit of rage. Pistoris is supposedly someone with temper issues, he is also someone with a great love of guns. These two things alone can lead to disaster.
95% of the time murder is going to be a false economy. Killing someone is almost always illogical but yet it still happens all the time. I was just surprised that this has seemingly passed you by.
I would guess that the prosecution will paint Pistoris as someone with anger, aggression and jealousy issues. Also as a man with a great love of guns. Lets see how this one pans out.
Why have men been murdering their partners since the start of time?
This is not something unheard of, there are probably ten thousand men in prison around the world who have killed someone that they love in a fit of rage. Pistoris is supposedly someone with temper issues, he is also someone with a great love of guns. These two things alone can lead to disaster.
95% of the time murder is going to be a false economy. Killing someone is almost always illogical but yet it still happens all the time. I was just surprised that this has seemingly passed you by.
I would guess that the prosecution will paint Pistoris as someone with anger, aggression and jealousy issues. Also as a man with a great love of guns. Lets see how this one pans out.
It's such an odd story. The first thing you do surely if you hear something is check if they're beside you and alert them/ask their opinion.
Indeed. For someone as interested in firearms as he purports himself to be, he broke one of the cardinal rules of shooting: 'be sure of your target and beyond'..that is of course assuming this was an accident. Perhaps he knew very well what his target was.
That's a sorry bit of misguided prejudice (not on your part obviously). We're not all violent aggressors.
I thought that was a faked up link but it isn't. Unbelievable.
What would an intruder be doing in his bathroom? If he knew Reeva was in the house, why wouldn't he open the door to check who's in there before shooting? He could have at least asked who's in there.
He either intended on killing her or was incredibly negligent. Either way he deserves to go to prison.
He either intended on killing her or was incredibly negligent. Either way he deserves to go to prison.
My Dad is a gun lover and likes to go game shooting. He is an extremely conscientious gun owner and does everything that is required of him by UK law to keep his guns. If he was an aggressive person with temper issues then I would feel uncomfortable with him keeping them. One neighbour of theirs actually had his license revoked after a drunken domestic that the police had to attend.
Not just men either, a few women in prison for killing their mate. Some people are just not well balanced.
All this time, he has being put in jail?
He's been free on bail since if I'm not mistaken. He even has a new girlfriend apparently.
I presume it must have been in a fit of rage rather than planned beforehand so he could have created more than one of the worst defence stories I've heard. For his story to be correct he had to wake up, notice his girlfriend was not next to him, hear someone in the bathroom, and then randomly start shooting through the door.
No. In fact, gun laws are so strict that you can't just fire a gun in residential or public areas. Your life has to be under direct threat and the onus will be on you to prove it was under threat.
He is a goner. Neighbor's testimony is too damning.
Hes done then. Unless there is massive corruption in the South African legal system.
There's definitely corruption but that's probably an issue faced all around the world.
But this case is too high profile and too much international interest for something silly to happen.
So there'll be a fair trial and I'd assume he's definitely getting jail time. Question is, as Stretch mentioned - PM murder, murder or culpable homicide!
I agree with Ish, there's probably some (though very little and minute) corruption. Our legal system is very strong and I have no doubt that he will have a fair trial. Further, a female high court judge has been appointed. SA has a gender violence problem and I think it was rather strategic for them choose a female judge.
He'll get a rather big sentence, won't he?
If it's murder he will most likely get 15 years. If it's PM murder it will most likely be 25 to life. Culpable homicide will see a few years imo though not sure.