Our attack in 2007/08 - A one off?

[El Jefe]

Stuck at home re-watching matches of our 07/08 PL and CL team, and all I could think of were none of our attackers were anywhere near their peaks yet we were still so dominant. Our forward line in this season was Rooney, Ronaldo and Tevez. Seeing as we played 4-4-2 I guess you could also add Giggs or Nani to this attack. They all started the season at the respective ages of 21, 22, 23, 33 and 20.

In these 5 player's careers, individually this season wasn't even close to being their best. Now don't get me wrong, Ronaldo had one of the best seasons ever from a player in PL history but little did we know that he will dwarf these displays with what was to come at Madrid. Our attack was excellent this season but you could see it could still go up another gear or two and that's a scary thought. Can you imagine how much better this team would have been if any two of these players were at their peak let alone all four of them.

My question to the Caf is have we seen a team as dominant as ours domestically and in Europe without having one of their attacking stars in their peak? The closest I could think of is Barcelona in 2008/09 but even Eto'o was at his best that season.

 

[United58]

You could argue that Rooney was at his peak here, but I agree with the rest of the post.

A massive thing for us was losing Ronaldo - imagine if we'd kept him til his late 20s like Arsenal had with Henry thanks to the Glazers, we replaced him with Valencia (great player but not one of the best on the planet/ever, as Ronaldo was).

Berbatov was a fantastic player but really didn't suit our fast style at all - keeping Saha, Tevez and Ronaldo and not signing Berbatov would have got us a few more Champions Leagues IMO

 

[2 man midfield]

If Ronaldo had stayed, we’d probably have 2 or 3 more champions leagues. Instead we lost him and Tevez, and brought in Valencia and Owen. For me this is when our slow decline started.

 

[Utdstar01]

Ronaldo probably would've won much more at United between 09-13 seasons than he did at Real in those years. Real were in Barca's shadow for the majority of that period.

 

[OleBoiii]

If Ronaldo had stayed, we’d probably have 2 or 3 more champions leagues. Instead we lost him and Tevez, and brought in Valencia and Owen. For me this is when our slow decline started.

Our quality dropped, but that's to be expected when you lose the 2nd best player in history and most of the defensive core starts to get past their peak. We still won multiple PL trophies and did really well in the CL, though.

Had Fergie stayed for 5-6 more years, then he would have built a brand new world class team, as he always did. He was the master of adapting.

 

[Rozay]

The attack was better on paper than it was on the pitch, from memory. Ronaldo was different level of course.

 

[FrankDrebin]

I'm not going to downplay Valencia's time here because he was a very accomplished wide player and a great servant but him being the sole replacement for the best player in the world at the time was just a mind boggling decision. Bring him in sure,as having a effective out-and-out wide player is a great option to have, but the club should've brought in a player of greater capabilities alongside him.

On Owen, still feel uneasy thinking he was a United player.

 

[FrankDrebin]

You could argue that Rooney was at his peak here, but I agree with the rest of the post.

A massive thing for us was losing Ronaldo - imagine if we'd kept him til his late 20s like Arsenal had with Henry thanks to the Glazers, we replaced him with Valencia (great player but not one of the best on the planet/ever, as Ronaldo was).

Berbatov was a fantastic player but really didn't suit our fast style at all - keeping Saha, Tevez and Ronaldo and not signing Berbatov would have got us a few more Champions Leagues IMO

I agree Berbatov didn't fit our style. Hindsight is a great thing but his move ended up in similar vain to when Barca ditched Eto in a swap deal to bring in The Zlatan.

Regarding keeping Saha for 09. He was clearly struggling with fitness towards the end of the 07 campaign and his impact was lessening. Keeping Louis on for 08 was smart as we didn't have a good back-up if any of the top 3 super forwards picked up any niggles but past 08 there really was no point in keeping him on,even if we didn't bring in Berbatov.

We certainly should've brought in a forward with similar attributes to Saha though. That was a mistake.

 

[Josh 76]

I'm not going to downplay Valencia's time here because he was a very accomplished wide player and a great servant but him being the sole replacement for the best player in the world at the time was just a mind boggling decision. Bring him in sure,as having a effective out-and-out wide player is a great option to have, but the club should've brought in a player of greater capabilities alongside him.

On Owen, still feel uneasy thinking he was a United player.

What was Fergie thinking singing Owen. A foreign manager signing him, you may say ok, he don't get it. But Fergie knows the hatred.
Can never get my head round it.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

My question to the Caf is have we seen a team as dominant as ours domestically and in Europe without having one of their attacking stars in their peak?

No.

We had a strong peak defense and strong midfield at their back with plenty of exps in the form of Giggs and Scholes which also helps.

Ronaldo's level at that time is ridiculously high at that time which is not even his peak.

 

[United58]

If Ronaldo had stayed, we’d probably have 2 or 3 more champions leagues. Instead we lost him and Tevez, and brought in Valencia and Owen. For me this is when our slow decline started.

We were a lot better than Madrid when Ronaldo initially moved, which makes it hurt even more. We'd won 3 titles on the bounce and made the last 2 CL finals. This was back when Madrid couldn't get past the lat 16 in the CL and were being dominated by Barcelona in the league.

 

[VorZakone]

That trio (Rooney - Tevez - Ronaldo) should have remained intact for a few more years. For comparison: Liverpool have been playing Mane, Salah and Firmino for 3 seasons now.

 

[Raven]

That trio (Rooney - Tevez - Ronaldo) should have remained intact for a few more years. For comparison: Liverpool have been playing Mane, Salah and Firmino for 3 seasons now.

None of Mane, Salah or Firmino are even remotely close to Ronaldo. It is much harder to hang on to a foreign Balon D'or winner when his dream is Real than it is to hang onto 3 borderline world class players who have never performed to that level outside of one specific system.

 

[2 man midfield]

Our quality dropped, but that's to be expected when you lose the 2nd best player in history

Ronaldo was an amazing player for us in those last 3 seasons, but he wasn't the demigod we know him as now. He scored 26 goals for us in 2008/09, and was a part of a larger team. We were far from reliant on him, especially that season. I seem to remember it was our defence and goalkeeper than won us that title, Van Der Sar going something like a record 13 consecutive games without conceding.

We still won multiple PL trophies and did really well in the CL, though.

Well, 2. I guess that counts as multuple, but we were far from the dominant force we were. Chelsea beat us to the league the very next season, and City had come onto the scene in a big way by 2012. We did reach one CL final in 2011 thanks to a relatively easy run, but apart from that we underwhelmed in Europe post 2009, even going out at the group stage and being embarassed by Bilbao in the Europa League. I’m not saying we didn’t have success, but it was as a result of Fergie’s genius, squeezing the last drops out of the remnants of that 2008 team. Carrick, Rooney, Rio, Vidic etc were still our star players and thanks to Van Persie coming in we were able to suck one last title out of them. But it was clear to me that we were in decline then since it was basically the same team and had not been refreshed. People used to claim we had the next team coming through in Smalling, Jones, Cleverley etc but they didn’t really do anything to contribute to any success we had in that period, that was down the same old tried and trusted players. For me, we had a thin veneer of youth flattering to deceive, but as soon as you took away Sir Alex most of them became a laughing stock. Look at Smalling, Jones, Cleverley and Welbeck for example.

It seemed clear to me that not long after the great man left that we’d been declining ever since we sold Ronaldo. I mean, what signings can you say came in between 2008 and 2013 that actually improved the team? De Gea sure, but he was replacing another top goalkeeper so that signing basically offsets itself. Van Persie, a short term option who came in at 29 and did exactly what he was supposed to. Other than that? It’s the same ageing team, running on fumes and playing to their absolute limit thanks to a genius. Once he stepped aside, the void that had been growing since 2009 was suddenly visible. That amazing team had turned into an average one, and we’ve been playing catch up ever since.

We were a lot better than Madrid when Ronaldo initially moved, which makes it hurt even more. We'd won 3 titles on the bounce and made the last 2 CL finals. This was back when Madrid couldn't get past the lat 16 in the CL and were being dominated by Barcelona in the league.

Yeah, I remember Lyon being their bogey team in Europe as well. They hadn't been a force in Europe for over 5 years, yet Ronaldo went in and turned them into serial winners. Imagine if he'd given his best years to us.

 

[Luke1995]

I wonder what would have happened if instead of signing Berbatov, Fergie had kept Saha. More suited to the style of play. Perhaps Saha himself asked to leave.

 

[El Jefe]

The attack was better on paper than it was on the pitch, from memory. Ronaldo was different level of course.

I wouldn't say it was better on paper because they really were devastating. The movement, speed and creativity of the three was insane, the only flaw was Tevez and Rooney still being young and not fully developed in their finishing in front of goal.

If SAF had that attack for the next 3 seasons, I'm pretty sure we'd be looking at one of the best forward lines of their generation.

 

[thepolice123]

Yeah, I remember Lyon being their bogey team in Europe as well. They hadn't been a force in Europe for over 5 years, yet Ronaldo went in and turned them into serial winners. Imagine if he'd given his best years to us.

Execept it took four seasons.

 

[2 man midfield]

Execept it took four seasons.

So?

 

[amolbhatia50k]

So?

Shows that it took many many people to turn them into serial (CL not league) winners.

Predictably this thread went from discussing whether our season was anomaly to how sad things became for us after. Despite SAF having delivered major trophies since.

 

[mu4c_20le]

I wouldn't say it was better on paper because they really were devastating. The movement, speed and creativity of the three was insane, the only flaw was Tevez and Rooney still being young and not fully developed in their finishing in front of goal.

If SAF had that attack for the next 3 seasons, I'm pretty sure we'd be looking at one of the best forward lines of their generation.

Tevez dropped off in the second season. He reminds me a bit of Lukaku with a worse attitude. Of course had we kept Ronaldo and continued to build the team around him and Rooney, any decent third forward would still make that line devastating on the counter.

 

[11101]

I dont think I'd agree with them not being at their peak.

Rooney was as good as he ever was, but he was playing more for the team than he did in later years, when the focus was totally on him to score our goals.

Ronaldo likewise. By 2008 the talk was already about him or Messi as the best player in the world. His rise at Madrid was less to do with him getting even better, and more to do with his own and the team's focus being redirected to go entirely through him.

Tevez I saw less of outside the PL but he was perfect for our system in that first year.

 

[2 man midfield]

Shows that it took many many people to turn them into serial (CL not league) winners.

Predictably this thread went from discussing whether our season was anomaly to how sad things became for us after. Despite SAF having delivered major trophies since.

That was my point though. He was the main part of a larger team. He can’t do it on his own, but he was still the driving force behind their success.

 

[Shiva87]

No.

We had a strong peak defense and strong midfield at their back with plenty of exps in the form of Giggs and Scholes which also helps.

Ronaldo's level at that time is ridiculously high at that time which is not even his peak.

I always thought that's exactly why Fergie bought him. To rub it in the faces of Liverpool that United got one of their most loved players and gifted him a title (practically for doing nothing much) - while Liverpool couldn't manage to win a title at all - even when he won the Ballon D' Or.

 

[jem]

I don't get the Owen hate - if nothing else, he gave us that goal versus City, one of the greatest moments in recent United history. Of course that transfer window when Ronaldo left was a shambles, but my expectations of Owen were never that high at the time - almost a bit like my expectations of Ighalo.

 

[dcrompton]

I don't get the Owen hate - if nothing else, he gave us that goal versus City, one of the greatest moments in recent United history. Of course that transfer window when Ronaldo left was a shambles, but my expectations of Owen were never that high at the time - almost a bit like my expectations of Ighalo.

The Owen winner against City was 11 years ago! I think that one goal ranks him alongside Macheda, Forlan, Lee Martin and Mark Robins as a scorer of a memorable goal for United but it's obvious that with his Liverpool connections and injury history it was a very underwhelming signing to have as the new United iconic number 7 after Robson, Cantona, Beckham and Ronaldo

 

[Nikelesh Reddy]

If Ronaldo had stayed, we’d probably have 2 or 3 more champions leagues. Instead we lost him and Tevez, and brought in Valencia and Owen. For me this is when our slow decline started.

We would have had a better chance of winning the CL,but let’s not forget the fact that we were soundly beaten by Barcelona in the 2009 CL final,when Ronaldo was still playing for us.Personally I don’t think we could have beaten Barcelona even with Ronaldo in the team because our midfield and defence was ageing rapidly.I don’t think there would have been enough quality in our midfield back then to compete with the best in Europe even with Ronaldo in the team...

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

We could still win the league in 09/10 if we kept Tevez.

I could understand about selling Ronaldo since he wanted to go to Real. However, after knowing that Ronaldo was likely going to leave and to choose not to pursue Tevez's signing is something that I never understand from Sir Alex.

I know Tevez already got upset towards end of the season due to lack of football games but I feel that Sir Alex could convince him to choose us over City with better way to handle the situation. Tevez was our 3rd top scorer in 08/09 and our 2nd top scorer in 07/08. Just doesn't make any sense to let him go to our neighbor in the same season when we lost Ronaldo. The worst part is that we replaced him with feckin Owen and we didn't get Benzema at all.

 

[James Peril]

Our quality dropped, but that's to be expected when you lose the 2nd best player in history and most of the defensive core starts to get past their peak. We still won multiple PL trophies and did really well in the CL, though.

Had Fergie stayed for 5-6 more years, then he would have built a brand new world class team, as he always did. He was the master of adapting.

He was indeed, the man was/is remarkable. He did get on though, and being as successful as he was, you will start to surf on past glories/modus operandi perhaps without seeing the development elsewhere. How many times did we scream for a new central midfielders those last years? When you become as big and influential as Sir Alex, perhaps there is a need to show the world how things are done your way and the old-fashioned way... I can only speculate of course, not being remotely close to Sir Alex in any shape or form

 

[lenny_1248]

It would have been been better if SAF used the money for Berbatov in order to buy a central midfielder and stayed with Tevez and Saha (even for one year 2008/2009). Or bought a true top-top striker like Villa who could work with Rooney 2009/2010 perfectly.

 

[Member 113277]

I don't get the Owen hate - if nothing else, he gave us that goal versus City, one of the greatest moments in recent United history. Of course that transfer window when Ronaldo left was a shambles, but my expectations of Owen were never that high at the time - almost a bit like my expectations of Ighalo.

I think the 'hate' thing applies less to supporters who are not from Manchester (e.g. me), where we don't have an instinctive rivalry and dislike outside football.

For what it;s worth, I thought Owen was professional for us, scored a great goal against City, but was ultimately a downgrade (at that stage in his career) and that disappointed a lot of people who expected more.

Just as Wayne Rooney will be a blue til the day he dies, but is our top scorer, I think it is easy to forget that the majority of footballers don't get to play for the team they support, but still do a good job for their professional club.

 

[2 man midfield]

It would have been been better if SAF used the money for Berbatov in order to buy a central midfielder and stayed with Tevez and Saha (even for one year 2008/2009). Or bought a true top-top striker like Villa who could work with Rooney 2009/2010 perfectly.

In theory Tevez and Saha is good enough, but Saha was never actually fit. I don’t even remember him playing for us that season we did the double. He left on a free after 07/08 after struggling with injuries his whole United career and missing most of the last year, it wouldn’t have made much sense to offer him a new deal.

That said, this makes it even stranger we didn’t do more to keep Tevez the following season. Replacing Ronaldo was always going to be tough, but we could’ve at least tried to replace a player with the tenacity of Tevez with someone a little more inspiring than Michael bloody Owen. I feel like we became a lot more predictable after that. We went from a front line that had the dynamism of Ronaldo and Tevez to one that included the most one-footed man in Western Europe (Valencia), a man who doesn’t move (Berbatov) and a man who can’t move (Owen).

 

[Peyroteo]

United got lucky that as they declined after 2009 so did the other top teams in England at the time. Between 2006 and 2009 United won 3 league titles in a row while arguably the 4 best teams in the world were all english, after that Madrid and Barca took over and United didn't need to be as good in order to compete in the league.

Maybe that turned out to be a bad thing though as it made it more acceptable that the level of the club was dropping.

 

[Shark]

We could still win the league in 09/10 if we kept Tevez.

I could understand about selling Ronaldo since he wanted to go to Real. However, after knowing that Ronaldo was likely going to leave and to choose not to pursue Tevez's signing is something that I never understand from Sir Alex.

I know Tevez already got upset towards end of the season due to lack of football games but I feel that Sir Alex could convince him to choose us over City with better way to handle the situation. Tevez was our 3rd top scorer in 08/09 and our 2nd top scorer in 07/08. Just doesn't make any sense to let him go to our neighbor in the same season when we lost Ronaldo. The worst part is that we replaced him with feckin Owen and we didn't get Benzema at all.

I fully agree with this, SAF was a one in a million genius, but he made some mistakes. I guess he gambled on Berbatov becoming a 25-30 goals a season striker but try most he ever scored in the league was 20 if I remember correctly.

 

[shamans]

I don't get the Owen hate - if nothing else, he gave us that goal versus City, one of the greatest moments in recent United history. Of course that transfer window when Ronaldo left was a shambles, but my expectations of Owen were never that high at the time - almost a bit like my expectations of Ighalo.

Owen was one of my favorite signings honestly. Underrated as a finisher.

 

[Amir]

I don't get the Owen hate - if nothing else, he gave us that goal versus City, one of the greatest moments in recent United history.

All due respect to the goal, we were aiming higher than beating City. If we had someone to take over when Rooney was injured, we may well have won the title that year. But when that happened, Owen was injured, which was no surprise given his record.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

I don't get the Owen hate - if nothing else, he gave us that goal versus City, one of the greatest moments in recent United history. Of course that transfer window when Ronaldo left was a shambles, but my expectations of Owen were never that high at the time - almost a bit like my expectations of Ighalo.

I’m not sure what do you mean by hate. Most people hate the idea of replacing Tevez with Owen not the player himself.

Let’s put it this way. Would you rather that Owen goal vs city moment or us winning the league in 09/10? I think the answer is very clear which one you would rather have. Signing Owen and letting Tevez go to City was the wrong decision.

I believe if we replace Tevez with the same caliber of player or sign Tevez instead of Owen, we would have win the league. There were games when we couldn’t win in that season due to either Rooney was injured or we couldn’t score 2 or more goals since Berba was useless to backup Rooney. Tevez would have make massive difference in that season.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

I fully agree with this, SAF was a one in a million genius, but he made some mistakes. I guess he gambled on Berbatov becoming a 25-30 goals a season striker but try most he ever scored in the league was 20 if I remember correctly.

Selling Stam & not signing Edwin earlier to replace Peter are probably Sir Alex biggest mistake in his transfer decision, and letting Tevez went to City or at least not signing a proper replacement is added to my top 3 his biggest mistake.

Edwin & Tevez things are probably not fully his mistake but he could resolve the issue that prevent us from signing them easily.

 

[Sandikan]

What was Fergie thinking singing Owen. A foreign manager signing him, you may say ok, he don't get it. But Fergie knows the hatred.
Can never get my head round it.

Not sure there was any hatred to Owen. More concerns that he was well past his peak.

He scored 17 for United though and had a decent first season.
Superb moment v City in the 4-3, champions league hatrick, league cup final scorer.
Wasn't too bad for a freebie. And worth the banter with Liverpool having won the title they couldn't.

 

[Sandikan]

I fully agree with this, SAF was a one in a million genius, but he made some mistakes. I guess he gambled on Berbatov becoming a 25-30 goals a season striker but try most he ever scored in the league was 20 if I remember correctly.

He had that bizarre year when Rooney was totally out of sorts where he only seemed to score in about 6 different games and still got around 20!

Still remember some blagger in our work fantasy league captaining him when he scored 5(i think) v Blackburn!
And i was there for his three v Liverpool

 

[luke511]

Rashford Martial/Greenwood Sancho has potential to be up there along side that attack, provided we get hold of Sancho of course.