Our attack is a mess | Joint 10th with Bournemouth for goals scored

[ManUSarge]

I agree that it seemed like LVG gave the team a bit of slack to play more flowing football in attack. I do remember one time when Bastian played a long ball that missed the mark and he looked over at the bench as if to apologize for losing possession. I bet LVG is going to look at the result and the fact that the defense broke down as an indicator that this is not what we need to be doing and go back to playing drab football again.

I would be willing to suggest that Rojo in the center was what accounted for the goals. I haven't rewatched them but it seems odd that we start leaking goals except for the fact that Rojo is now being pushed in when he hasn't played at all this year. Blind was certainly not my first choice at CB but he has done really well considering he is smaller and it is not his natural position. Blind makes up for a lot of physical deficiencies with his intelligence.

I am clearly no football analyst but I hope we do go forward with Martial up top. He wants to get into position to score goals...is blazing fast...and is not afraid to take on a man. His passes in and around the box were nice and I liked his link up play with Memphis.

 

[wiz4231]

Rojo was not the reason we leaked goals, if I remember correctly for the first Blind should have avoided making contact with the ball with Young on the line and especially when the contact would be towards goal. The second again IMO it was Blind that let his man go, he should have stuck to him, I know he would have got beaten for pace but instructing another player to get his man while he picks up another player is not good enough, some will say Rojo is at fault but if you watch closely Rojo is trying to keep a certain distance with his CB partner Smalling, as you should know by now it's the basics of defending, I don't personally think he did much wrong but Blind should have done alot better in that situation.

The thing I found most alarming was the Midfield provide very little cover for the CB's, we saw the same in preseason when Bastian and Herrera were paired together and this is the first thing that needs to change. Against Liverpool we have Carrick and Bastian and we looked pretty damn solid (we also had Shaw in defence), Carrick provided the cover While Bastian and Herrera pushed forward, this should be our base Carrick/Morgan, Bastian/Morgan + Herrera and 3 forwards. That would give us the best balance.

De Gea
Darmian....Smalling....Rojo....Blind
Carrick....Bastian
Herrera
Mata......................................Depay
Martial

Morgan - Carrick/Bastian
Fellaini - Mata/Herrera
​

 

[CG1010]

Rojo was not the reason we leaked goals, if I remember correctly for the first Blind should have avoided making contact with the ball with Young on the line and especially when the contact would be towards goal. The second again IMO it was Blind that let his man go, he should have stuck to him, I know he would have got beaten for pace but instructing another player to get his man while he picks up another player is not good enough, some will say Rojo is at fault but if you watch closely Rojo is trying to keep a certain distance with his CB partner Smalling, as you should know by now it's the basics of defending, I don't personally think he did much wrong but Blind should have done alot better in that situation.

I think generally it is difficult to attach individual liability to goals, and I believe it is not possible to do so for the first goal, except to the fact that Darmian shouldn't have let the opposition have a free go at the goal. However I disagree with your viewing of the second goal as I think it was definitely Rojo who was responsible (after Darmian had made the wrong pass). Its very clear from the second goal clip that Blind is moving towards covering another opposition player who is attacking the far post - which is his responsibility now that he is playing as a full back, and Blind promptly communicates with Rojo to cover the attacker which is Rojo's responsibility. However Rojo takes a risk by not doing so and further fails to clear the cross.

 

[wiz4231]

I think generally it is difficult to attach individual liability to goals, and I believe it is not possible to do so for the first goal, except to the fact that Darmian shouldn't have let the opposition have a free go at the goal. However I disagree with your viewing of the second goal as I think it was definitely Rojo who was responsible (after Darmian had made the wrong pass). Its very clear from the second goal clip that Blind is moving towards covering another opposition player who is attacking the far post - which is his responsibility now that he is playing as a full back, and Blind promptly communicates with Rojo to cover the attacker which is Rojo's responsibility. However Rojo takes a risk by not doing so and further fails to clear the cross.

So he was supposed to just leave his CB partner and Blinds job?

 

[CG1010]

So he was supposed to just leave his CB partner and Blinds job?

I think he should be smart about knowing which attacking players are a threat in the box and cover them rather than arbitrarily maintaining a fixed distance with his CB partner. In any case the goal scorer was a striker ( though I might be wrong on this) so how is it Blind's job to cover for him. If Blind had covered him and the player at the far post had scored then you would have complained that Blind didn't cover him, which was his job.

Edit: And I don't recall Blind losing out on pace as you suggested. He clearly saw another run and covered for it.

 

[wiz4231]

I think he should be smart about knowing which attacking players are a threat in the box and cover them rather than arbitrarily maintaining a fixed distance with his CB partner. In any case the goal scorer was a striker ( though I might be wrong on this) so how is it Blind's job to cover for him. If Blind had covered him and the player at the far post had scored then you would have complained that Blind didn't cover him, which was his job.

Edit: And I don't recall Blind losing out on pace as you suggested. He clearly saw another run and covered for it.

Narsingh is and was playing as a Winger, a wide player who should have been picked up by Blind. De Jong was playing as the striker that Blind picked up, now my point is that if Blind stuck with Narsingh we would have kept our defensive line and cleared it. If Shaw was a LB he would have cleared it.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

The loss of Shaw unbalanced the defence. That caused the winner. Blind and Shaw had developed an understanding on how to cover each other. Blind and Rojo dont have it. That is why Rojo covered Smalling by guarding the center. Rather than going for the far post to cover Blind's lack of pace.

 

[Adisa]

City have scored 13. We've scored 12. Explain?

 

[askabob]

At the end of the day, we still have a 19yo as our best attacker. That speaks volumes.

 

[RedStarUnited]

At the end of the day, we still have a 19yo as our best attacker. That speaks volumes.

When you are good, you are good. Age has nothing to do with it. If we bought Ronaldo De Lima in the mid 90s, he would have straight away been our best attacker too. Even with Cantona etc around.

Last year our best attacker should have been the 27 year old, british record transfer in the peak of his career. But it wasnt, turned out to be a left winger most people wouldnt have minded being sold in the previous summer.

 

[Oneunited26]

At the end of the day, we still have a 19yo as our best attacker. That speaks volumes.

Ah and then there was Anelka at 19 who ripped us apart between 97-99, against perhaps fergie's greatest teams

 

[steeeb]

At the end of the day, we still have a 19yo as our best attacker. That speaks volumes.

If it was a 35 year old who might have a couple seasons ahead of him *at best* then I could see your point. What's wrong with having a 19 year old as our best attacker?

 

[Akshay]

If it was a 35 year old who might have a couple seasons ahead of him *at best* then I could see your point. What's wrong with having a 19 year old as our best attacker?

Because his belief is that a 19 year old, by definition, cannot be that good a player i.e. you win nothing with kids.

 

[ivaldo]

At the end of the day, we still have a 19yo as our best attacker. That speaks volumes.

Ah I agree, he needs another couple years of reserve football followed by a championship loan, then lower premier and a season or two as an impact sub. He'll be 25 then which is the age that players get good at.

 

[FlawlessThaw]

At the end of the day, we still have a 19yo as our best attacker. That speaks volumes.

With a 5 year contract ... sounds like we could be in a worse situation.

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

At the end of the day, we still have a 19yo as our best attacker. That speaks volumes.

About the 19 year old's quality I assume you mean...

 

[CG1010]

Ah I agree, he needs another couple years of reserve football followed by a championship loan, then lower premier and a season or two as an impact sub. He'll be 25 then which is the age that players get good at.

In his defense, he probably means that 19 year olds are generally inconsistent and we would be fecked if/when Martial loses a bit of form this season.

 

[Smores]

I think its fair to point out that 19 year olds tend to be inconsistent. He has a hell of a lot of ability but it's still a lot to ask of him at such a young age, he may show consistency throughout but we shouldn't expect it.

If he carries on like this strengthening the attack may bemore complicated as a top striker would expect to take his position. Finding someone of the required quality who would be happy to fight for their position may be troublesome. Or do we just settle with Martial, Rooney, Wilson?

 

[ivaldo]

I think its fair to point out that 19 year olds tend to be inconsistent. He has a hell of a lot of ability but it's still a lot to ask of him at such a young age, he may show consistency throughout but we shouldn't expect it.

If he carries on like this strengthening the attack may bemore complicated as a top striker would expect to take his position. Finding someone of the required quality who would be happy to fight for their position may be troublesome. Or do we just settle with Martial, Rooney, Wilson?

It makes more sense though to judge him individually and not group his with every other player in his age group.

 

[Dion]

Young players are more prone to injuries and drops in form, there's nothing wrong with pointing that out. When our other striker seems incapable of leading the line that is a problem, Martial won't play 50 games a season at the level he currently is.

 

[Smores]

It makes more sense though to judge him individually and not group his with every other player in his age group.

How are we supposed to judge a players consistency after 4 games?

We can't, so all we can say is that since he's 19 and players of that age tend to be inconsistent that he is also likely to be and thus probably shouldn't be relied upon too heavily.

 

[Sarni]

Ah I agree, he needs another couple years of reserve football followed by a championship loan, then lower premier and a season or two as an impact sub. He'll be 25 then which is the age that players get good at.

 

[bosnian_red]

At the end of the day, we still have a 19yo as our best attacker. That speaks volumes.

He'd be starting for everyone in the league bar City probably. Maybe Chelsea though he'd be in and around the team always, moving positions. Ronaldo and Rooney were both starting for us and key players 10 years ago despite being teenagers. Its no different with martial and Shaw. They're just exceptional talents.

 

[ivaldo]

How are we supposed to judge a players consistency after 4 games?

We can't, so all we can say is that since he's 19 and players of that age tend to be inconsistent that he is also likely to be and thus probably shouldn't be relied upon too heavily.

He played about 50 games at Monaco including champions league football before joining us, we haven't just plucked him from the under 18s. If he shows the right mentality (which he has) then age is entirely irrelevant.

 

[acrebo]

Maybe, just maybe, we're a work in progress. It's very early days but Martial seems the kind of player

How are we supposed to judge a players consistency after 4 games?

We can't, so all we can say is that since he's 19 and players of that age tend to be inconsistent that he is also likely to be and thus probably shouldn't be relied upon too heavily.

All we can do is judge him on what he's done for us so far. Our judgement can then be amended as and when he has inconsistent spells.

'Inconsistency' is, ironically, inconsistent. Martial being inconsistent could mean he turns into an absolute donkey or it could mean he isn't quite as influential as he has been so far.

 

[B20]

At the end of the day, we still have a 19yo as our best attacker. That speaks volumes.

Fergie understood this. That's why he made sure you didn't end up with a 19 year old as your best midfielder.

 

[spontaneus1]

Fergie understood this. That's why he made sure you didn't end up with a 19 year old as your best midfielder.

 

[Kag]

Martial's age looks less and less relevant by the week. He looks like a man in his 20s, is built like one, and seems to play like one.

If he scores lots of goals and is our best attacker as a result of that then great. His age won't matter.

 

[GimmeAKitKat]

If there was a world class No.9 available anywhere then yeh, go get them.

Alot of people also seem to forget we are playing with 1 Striker these days. We cant have 2 world class, 1 good and 1 youth because World class strikers will want to play every game. LvG clearly thinks he has the required amount. 1x WC = Rooney(dont agree but meh), 1x Good in Martial, and 1x Youth in Wilson( Swap Wilson and Martial if you need to be anal about Wilson being 4 days older)

Currently Martial is exceeding expectations however and LvG probably feels he can make better use of Rooney at 10 while Martial plays well. We still do have 3 Strikers than can do the job in the prem to varying degrees. If people want a World class Striker brought in id expect it to be at the expense of Rooney, and only when one is available, which non seem to be.

Personally im thinking more and more each week that Rooney's time is done and were just abit scared of moving him on. His legs are gone, he cant shoot from range and his short game is abysmal. If Lew/Muller or the like were available id get one and pack Rooney off to the highest bidder.

 

[askabob]

Because his belief is that a 19 year old, by definition, cannot be that good a player i.e. you win nothing with kids.

That's obviously not what I said nor what I meant. While I am thrilled with his current performances (just like any other fan), I don't want to raise the expectations so high that they will come crashing down when he inevitably hits a rough patch. A 19 year old shouldn't have to bear the burden of being the main man for a club of our size as most 19 year olds tend to be inconsistent. I'm sure you would have agreed with me at the start of the season before you'd seen him play for us. Sure, Martial may go on to become a world-beater this season -- But that is a bonus, not to be expected.

Ah I agree, he needs another couple years of reserve football followed by a championship loan, then lower premier and a season or two as an impact sub. He'll be 25 then which is the age that players get good at.

I think its fair to point out that 19 year olds tend to be inconsistent. He has a hell of a lot of ability but it's still a lot to ask of him at such a young age, he may show consistency throughout but we shouldn't expect it.

If he carries on like this strengthening the attack may bemore complicated as a top striker would expect to take his position. Finding someone of the required quality who would be happy to fight for their position may be troublesome. Or do we just settle with Martial, Rooney, Wilson?

Spot on.

 

[askabob]

He played about 50 games at Monaco including champions league football before joining us, we haven't just plucked him from the under 18s. If he shows the right mentality (which he has) then age is entirely irrelevant.

And at Monaco he completed a full match only a handful of times. What's your point?

 

[ivaldo]

And at Monaco he completed a full match only a handful of times. What's your point?

Really? You've not managed to work out my point?

Monaco trusted him to play regularly for them, Manchester United trust him to regularly start for them, he's shown he's got a terrific mentality and isn't fazed by pressure. When the counter argument is 'coz he's 19' I know which way I'd lean, towards the experts who've spent a lot of time with him.

Again, why on earth wouldn't you judge him as an individual and just throw him into a group along with all other young players?

 

[bosnian_red]

And at Monaco he completed a full match only a handful of times. What's your point?

He was seen as the first choice striker there for basically the past 7-8 months. If you're good enough, you're old enough. Just like Shaw is, like rooney was, like ronaldo was, etc.. The biggest thing with youngsters being ready for regular football is how physically developed they are. Martial is perfect in that regard, being pretty tall, very strong, and very fast. All you need. His talent and composure on the ball is obvious as well.

If Martial was 25 and was playing as he was, people would be saying he's the best player in the league. Not even exaggerating. His performances. Looking at nothing else, have been brilliant. And that's all that matters.

 

[NoLogo]

I think with Martial we are very well off he got everything it takes to be world class in a year or two.

What we really need though are fast creative players on the wings, like Costa, Robben or Hazard. Memphis doesn't look like that player, more like a wide striker, I even think he would make a halfway decent Ronaldo clone if he would play a similar role but I'd prefer to have fast players, on the left and the right of our attack, who can beat a man and cause chaos in the opposition's defense. If we can bring in two players of that caliber we should be back on track attacking wise.

 

[Akshay]

That's obviously not what I said nor what I meant. While I am thrilled with his current performances (just like any other fan), I don't want to raise the expectations so high that they will come crashing down when he inevitably hits a rough patch. A 19 year old shouldn't have to bear the burden of being the main man for a club of our size as most 19 year olds tend to be inconsistent. I'm sure you would have agreed with me at the start of the season before you'd seen him play for us. Sure, Martial may go on to become a world-beater this season -- But that is a bonus, not to be expected.

Ah I see. I misunderstood you then. I still don't think it speaks badly about the club, though. Going into the season, we clearly expected Rooney to be the main scorer, but so far he has underperformed and Martial has overperformed (compared to expectations). Hence he's currently the main man. You'd hope that if (when) he hits a rough patch Rooney will be able to step up.

 

[Devil may care]

We don't have anyone but Mata that is comfortable on the right, the other players that can play the wide forward role are more suited to the left, so we need some competition/cover for the RWF position. The other thing we need if we are to stick with 4-2-3-1 is a proper #10 that can pull the strings in the final 3rd and pick out runs.

 

[Red_Beans]

We don't have anyone but Mata that is comfortable on the right, the other players that can play the wide forward role are more suited to the left, so we need some competition/cover for the RWF position. The other thing we need if we are to stick with 4-2-3-1 is a proper #10 that can pull the strings in the final 3rd and pick out runs.

I would still like to see Pereira given a shot at the two positions you mentioned

 

[askabob]

Really? You've not managed to work out my point?

Monaco trusted him to play regularly for them, Manchester United trust him to regularly start for them, he's shown he's got a terrific mentality and isn't fazed by pressure. When the counter argument is 'coz he's 19' I know which way I'd lean, towards the experts who've spent a lot of time with him.

Again, why on earth wouldn't you judge him as an individual and just throw him into a group along with all other young players?

If you could read, you'd realize the counter argument isn't 'coz he's 19' but rather 'a largely unproven 19yo shouldn't be asked to be the main man so suddenly.' It's fantastic that he is doing so well, but even LvG said he was one for the future. We should not be placing such high expectations on such a young player because it's acceptable for young players to be inconsistent. At this rate a lot of fans will have a meltdown when he inevitably hits a rough patch.

 

[Devil may care]

I would still like to see Pereira given a shot at the two positions you mentioned

I don't think he's physically ready to play as a #10 yet in the PL and LvG likes his wide players tro be inverted, Pereira is better cutting in on his right foot, I'd like to see him push past Young and get into competition with Memphis.

 

[ivaldo]

If you could read, you'd realize the counter argument isn't 'coz he's 19' but rather 'a largely unproven 19yo shouldn't be asked to be the main man so suddenly.' It's fantastic that he is doing so well, but even LvG said he was one for the future. We should not be placing such high expectations on such a young player because it's acceptable for young players to be inconsistent. At this rate a lot of fans will have a meltdown when he inevitably hits a rough patch.

Oh the can you read line, really classy that. Again why not? The only reason you've managed to give me so far is his age. I'd call myself a pretty average manager if I couldn't differentiate between a young player who is mentally, physically and technically prepared to be a starter and one that isn't.