Agreed, it's not about individuals, it's about the club and the team.
United broke the transfer record, Solskjaer did not. Also, there's no such thing as 'Solskjaer not being backed', just the question of whether we invest enough in the team.
Our managers actually are being backed.
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United broke the transfer record, Solskjaer did not. Also, there's no such thing as 'Solskjaer not being backed', just the question of whether we invest enough in the team.
Well, I was working with the assumption that he definitely wanted at least one CB. But yeah, he could have done that, too.
Being backed for one transfer window is not really backed is it? Ofcourse when a new manager comes in, he will want funds to get new transfers.
Real backing is what Liverpool, Chelsea and City do.
Throwing money is not backing a manager, backing him means more. By that I mean, Pep came in and has been backed with the players he wants for 3/4 seasons in a row.
Jose was backed by Chelsea - backed by Willian, Matic, Shurrle and Zouma, the second season was backed with signings he needed to make a title challenge with Costa and Fabregas who came straight into the first team.
Klopp was backed in 3 summers with players that came into the starting line up.
How many of our managers get backed with players that go into the starting line up? Jose got Fred, Dalot who still cannot get into the first team
This season Ole got 4 players that you could argue only Telles gets in.
That is the difference between being backed and just throwing money for sake of it.
Real backing is what Liverpool, Chelsea and City do.
Throwing money is not backing a manager, backing him means more. By that I mean, Pep came in and has been backed with the players he wants for 3/4 seasons in a row.
Jose was backed by Chelsea - backed by Willian, Matic, Shurrle and Zouma, the second season was backed with signings he needed to make a title challenge with Costa and Fabregas who came straight into the first team.
Klopp was backed in 3 summers with players that came into the starting line up.
How many of our managers get backed with players that go into the starting line up? Jose got Fred, Dalot who still cannot get into the first team
This season Ole got 4 players that you could argue only Telles gets in.
That is the difference between being backed and just throwing money for sake of it.
From whom, fans that were desperate to sign Sancho, or the press? Ole and his staff will take what little pressure there is off them.
Any pressure on the kids you could x10 that would have been on Sancho, the press probably had their headlines already saved for the first time he didn't pull up trees:
"Dortmund must be laughing all the way to the Bank"
"You don't get much for £108m these days"
"Ed Woodward strikes again!"
"Sancho so bad"
Yep, this is obvious. We've spent huge amounts of money, just badly
I think the thread is based on the premise that simply not getting a transfer target doesn't mean you haven't been backed. Sometimes a deal just isn't on or realistic without grossly overpaying. That kind of "backing" isn't productive and how you end up with the Maguire fee
This is true to a degree, but to me it smells of the board changing their mind before the 'process' is complete.
We need to get better at selling players to keep the net spend down as well of course.
I also think it depends on the ambition of the board? Because if they believe this manager with this squad can go and win the title now, they're deluded. We'll do well to finish in the top four so the level of backing is still not enough IMO.
We'll have to see how much the circumstances have effected us, but I fully believe that any 'money saved now' is going to end up being money lost in the future when we're not in the Champion's League again.
Edit: it just feels like this pattern continues so far:
LVG: Spends money for two seasons, gets top four first time then just misses out but wins a trophy. Sacked.
Jose: Spends money for two seasons, wins two trophies and finishes 2nd. Gets £47m net spend and is sacked.
Ole: Sells the right players, buys mostly players we all wanted. Gets 3rd place, now gets a net spend of £60m~ (which will go down further). Sacked? Probably will be if we go on a bad run IMO.
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Agreed, what we've done is the bare minimum.
Or the fact that money is finite?
I don't know why I read that as "being hacked" I was thinking 'damn that's some rupert murdoch level shit!'
Yes, and also just getting players in doesn't mean he's been backed either. That's also how you end up with deadwood like Dalot, Darmian, Rojo.
We probably have less money than most of us think, but our net spend is £169m over the last five transfer windows and it will go down further as I expect Romero, Jones and Rojo to be sold at a minimum after being left out of the Champion's League Squad. The wage bill is almost certainly down after ridding of the biggest earner and not really signing 'marquee' players any more. It feels more like a lack of ambition and trust in the manger/squad that we will do any better than we currently are if they spent more money.
Money is definitely finite, but I think the owners are happy to keep filling their pockets at the current level of performance as well.
No it's simply means that the club doesn't have an infinite amount of money, the only fair question is whether the board makes it clear that when we spend +100m a part of that money comes from future budgets and when the wage bill increases it takes money away from the transfer budget and future wage budgets.
Based on the extremely stupid interview that LVG gave where he thought that United could buy any player he wanted, it seems that football managers aren't the brightest, in particular when it comes to managing money.
Also I don't think that the club believes that this team can win the title, only deluded fans have that goal in mind in particular when we have a manager without any sort of winning track records at a good level. I think that for the club it's a matter of progressing step by step and improve season after season, the issue starts when managers regress instead of progressing.
To those 169m, you need to add the increase of the wage bill, that will take you over 500m.
So are you going to tell me that top of Ole's "wish list" was a 32 year old striker who is going to have to quarantine for two weeks and not be available after international break, or do you think perhaps that was a Woodward desperation signing? Give your head a shake. United aren't very good at keeping secrets. Ole wanted Sancho and got Cavani. Ole wanted Graelish and got VDB. He wanted a centre half and got a LB. Like I said...there is a difference between spending money and backing the manager...
Yeah of course I would have because the manager needs players who are ready to help bridge the huge gap to City and Liverpool not 2 kids who are both a huge shot in the dark
No I credit Ed with getting Bruno for the price he paid for him just like it's Eds fault for paying 80 million for Maguire and 50 for AWB it's the scouts etc who target the players and Ed and co go pay the fees .
No, I'm saying that if we are talking about a list made by the manager then all the players signed from that list were wanted regardless of their rankings. In the real world when you make a ranked list, you don't claim that anything other than the first choice isn't your choice, that's a childish logic and it's also worth remembering that making a list is worthless, you don't know if the player at the top desperately wanted to move or if his club wanted to sell.
Yeah very true but we also know Sanchos talent and he's way better than what we have so I'd be pretty confident he would be a success . These kids will be in the first team and have to produce and that is pressure .
I hope like any United fan that they end up being superstars but to bring both of them in now when we need to close the gap to Pool and City for me is an absolute laugh and sums up the complete incompetence of the board .
This must be Ed Woodward's burner account...sigh
Personally I'd give the job to either Julien Nagelsmann or Marco Rose. Most people can't look past the likes of the obvious choices like Ancelotti, Poch etc but I believe we should target a coach for his ability to coach attacking football and the two German are very good in that regard and look to have huge potential.
Is that the best you have?
When was the last time you looked at our team in August/September and genuinely thought: "this team has a good chance at winning the title".
Exactly.
Exactly.
Honest question to the glazers and Woodward apologists here, irrespective of the manager, do you guys think this squad is good enough to win the PL?
If no, how does it matter how much we spent last season when we spent feck all this season and need more quality to close the gap between us and Liverpool/City.
If no, how does it matter how much we spent last season when we spent feck all this season and need more quality to close the gap between us and Liverpool/City.
No need to go into it anymore when you are making excuses for Ed. You obviously have an agenda against OGS so there's no point
Those numbers don't look right to me, do you have a source?
He made a valid point.
Dismissing criticism of a manager/player as agenda driven is the exact reason you can’t have decent debates on here.
You didn’t challenge his point but subverted with an Ed Woodward jab.
You asked me a question that wasn't for or against Ole or Woodward and I gave you an answer, how you end up with that conclusion is a true marvel. Ole potentially having Cavani on his list isn't a knock on him and Cavani not being the top target isn't a knock on the club either, I personally don't know who was on that fabled list but neither Ole nor the club have absolute control on whether the top targets will join us, these players have employers and they have their own career choices. So I will reiterate, if a player is on a manager list regardless of his ranking then when he signs for the club he is a player wanted by the manager.
The issue isn't how much money the club has spent on signings since Ole came in. You can't just say 'the club has spent X so we should be competitive', you have to look at the context. Ultimately I disagree with the thread title simply because it massively underestimates how much expenditure is required to compete.
We'd been underinvesting in the squad for years by the time Fergie left and have been playing catch-up since. Under Moyes, LVG and Mourinho our attempts to make up that ground saw us cultivate an unbalanced, overpaid squad lacking in quality and drive and full of deadwood. In terms of moulding what he inherited into a working squad Ole has had the hardest job of any of our post-Fergie managers and has done the best job by a country mile, despite the utter incompetence of our negotiators and money men.
At the end of the day i's difficult to judge Ole's transfers without knowing his brief. If he knew the board wouldn't give him the backing required this summer to make us competitive, he certainly could have spent better last year and the decision to go all out in for Maguire and AWB rather than filling other gaps seems misjudged. But if, as seems to be the case, he took the reigns under the impression that he'd be given the resources to build a competitive squad over the course of a couple of seasons, the additions he made have all been steps in the right direction. The addition of the targets he was reportedly looking at this summer (but the club failed to land) would also have been spot on. Ultimately if you give someone a budget to do a job, you can't half it when they're halfway through and expect a finished product.
We'd been underinvesting in the squad for years by the time Fergie left and have been playing catch-up since. Under Moyes, LVG and Mourinho our attempts to make up that ground saw us cultivate an unbalanced, overpaid squad lacking in quality and drive and full of deadwood. In terms of moulding what he inherited into a working squad Ole has had the hardest job of any of our post-Fergie managers and has done the best job by a country mile, despite the utter incompetence of our negotiators and money men.
At the end of the day i's difficult to judge Ole's transfers without knowing his brief. If he knew the board wouldn't give him the backing required this summer to make us competitive, he certainly could have spent better last year and the decision to go all out in for Maguire and AWB rather than filling other gaps seems misjudged. But if, as seems to be the case, he took the reigns under the impression that he'd be given the resources to build a competitive squad over the course of a couple of seasons, the additions he made have all been steps in the right direction. The addition of the targets he was reportedly looking at this summer (but the club failed to land) would also have been spot on. Ultimately if you give someone a budget to do a job, you can't half it when they're halfway through and expect a finished product.
I don't get people bringing Moyes into this. Weren't we bidding something like 120 mil for Bale but he wanted Madrid instead?
I've just double checked it for myself and yeah it does look wrong, I think the actual number is £229m (according to Transfermarkt, probably the closest I can get unless you have a more trusted source).
Our managers are certainly being backed.
Backed into a corner, that is....
Backed into a corner, that is....
I did before. Read all the history. He's just trolling
Still apologizing for Woodward so there is no point in continuing with your "Ole out" agenda. This is exactly what they want and you are falling right into the trap as you take the attention away from Ed and put it on Ole....sigh
Seriously at which point in those posts did I suggest that Ole should be sacked or apologized for Woodward?
Ok but that would mean no more Sancho but Ole still wants him
Why do fans act like these managers would even want the managers job?
Because the Manchester United job has great appeal and allure.
Ole may want alot of things but he won't get them just like Moyes , LVG and Jose before him . That would also ask the question if Ole still wants Sancho why did we spend a vast amount of money on 2 unknown kids who play in the same position.
True. Personally I'd be looking for an older RW after signing those two young RWs not still going after Sancho who is also young. But reports from reliable journalists are saying we still want Sancho. And I'm not sure but weren't we still trying to get Dembele on loan even when we were getting Pellistri and Diallo?