Our squad now vs the squad Ole inherited

[Roboc7]

I agree and it’s not just the quality of the players it’s the terrible culture that has been allowed to fester, lack of accountability, favouritism and terrible work rate.

Players have been too comfortable and the next manager will have a tough job turning it round.

 

[Idxomer]

GK + Defenders:
Mourinho: I thought Shaw was the only one good enough for a title challenge and liked Smalling a lot, still had no problems with De Gea at that point.
Ole: Varane and Shaw are the only good enough for a title challenge, Lindelof is ok as a squad option. Adamant now that we can't win the league with a keeper like DDG. AWB needs an upgrade but still has his uses and could do better with real coaching.

Midfielders:
Pogba and Matic were better back then, McTominay is still terrible and Fred was untested.
They haven't really changed a lot since then, the only real difference is Herrera out and VDB in, the latter is in a similar situation to Fred in 2018.
It's still a huge mess.

Forwards:
Mourinho: Lukaku was overweight and wanted to leave but he was a good striker. Sanchez was finished, Rashford and Martial were inconsistent but still had potential.
Ole: Ronaldo and Bruno pose a big problem for the next manager, Cavani will leave soon and he's often injured. Martial is finished at the club and Rashford looks to have regressed from his 19/20 form before the injury. Greenwood, Sancho, and Amad all have a big potential. This is the one area where we have made obvious improvements over the last two years, just needs a good manager to balance it, and get these guys to the next level.

 

[GazTheLegend]

Being discussed in a few different threads so might as well start one here. My personal opinion is that the squad is better but not by much.

This is patently untrue for a start, or Ole wouldn't have been under the pressure he was. The crux of WHY he has been sacked is because the squad -is- so much better than it was when he took over. In essence he's been the architect of his own downfall.

The players he had at his disposal - Smalling and Jones were regular starters. He's had Varane and Maguire this season. If you're arguing that those two names mentioned are better, well...

Then there was Ashley Young. You'd be hard pressed to find a Man Utd fan that didn't want him out the club. AWB has his faults, but as a right back, was Ashley Young really better?

And Alexis Sanchez was finished as a footballer. Compared with Sancho, who destroyed the Bundesliga (including scoring/assisting Vs Bayern Munich and Leipzig, who aren't exactly duffers). Without getting into the Ronaldo debate, or Cavani.

Goalkeeper: Is DDG good enough with the ball at his feet for a modern, progressive coach. Is he good enough, full stop? Best paid keeper in the world, by the way.

I feel STRONGLY we are a better team with Dean Henderson in goal and our results with him between the sticks would bare that out - for both us and Sheff United. It's astonishing to me how he's been frozen out for a few mistakes, when de Gea seems immune, after having some seriously shit performances this season. This is the first place a new man can look to change things.

 

[sullydnl]

Being discussed in a few different threads so might as well start one here. My personal opinion is that the squad is better but not by much. And the next manager has a tonne of shit to sort out.

Ole held onto Jones, Lingard, Mata, Pereira and Bailly throughout his tenure. Are any of them an asset for the next manager? Or a headache for him to sort out?

Midfield: yeah, that’s a BIG problem . Pogba and VdB are probably on their bikes. What does the new manager do with McFred and Matic? I would keep Fred and, erm, that’s it…

Defence: are Maguire and AWB really good enough for a PL/CL winning team? Do they need to be upgraded?

Attack: we have the oldest strikers in the league. We’re probably going to need at least one new number 9 very soon. Arguably the most difficult signing to make a success of. Have Martial and Rashford improved and developed as footballers during Ole’s time in charge?

Goalkeeper: Is DDG good enough with the ball at his feet for a modern, progressive coach. Is he good enough, full stop? Best paid keeper in the world, by the way.


Discuss.

Goalkeeper: Certainly somewhere we need to improve in the medium term. But looking at next season, maybe the right manager can get enough out of De Gea/Henderson to tide us over for another season? Covid really knocked Henderson's start to the season tbf to him.

Defence: RB, yes. AWB is a very flawed player in a top level side and we don't have back up. Maguire has been atypically terrible recently though, he won't always be this bad. Shaw and Varane are fine.

Midfield: Pogba will need to be replaced but then he is also a player we've struggled to fit into a coherent system, so replacing him offers opportunities. And rather than VDB being set to leave, I would think the biggest obstacle to him playing has just been removed. It may be that he actually plays enough to effectively be like a new signing for us. Also I think Fred and McTominay have suffered from having to play together in an incoherent system. Fred is a first choice midfielder for Brazil, not some no-hoper. I definitely think it's possible for him to look less terrible in the right set-up.

Attack: We'll need a CF. Beyond that though our attack is fine. Young talents in Greenwood and Sancho you can hope to keep getting better, Bruno doing Bruno things and Rashford hopefully better if his injury problems have been resolved.

The key underlying point though is that if our coaching is as bad as we think it is, then we're judging the players based on an artificially low level of performances. Give them structures that protect the defence more and offer more incision in attack and you might see a lot of them lift their game. Whereas bad though Mourinho was, he was objectively still a better manager than Solskjaer so there was possibly less potential unseen upside from that squad.

 

[ThehatchetMan]

The squad left is certainly better than what was inherited

Henderson > Romero (based on potential and age)

AWB/Varane/Maguire/Telles > Young/Smalling/Rojo/Darien

In midfield it’s close but I’d say Bruno/VDB > Fellini/Herrera

Then up top Sancho/Cavani/Ronaldo > Lukaku/Ighalo/Sanchez

I feel I’m probably missing a few players out there too but I would say OGS has left the best squad out of all the managers since SAF.

Obviously a bit of a rebuild is still required but we are only 2 or 3 players away from a very competitive starting XI.

 

[Oranges038]

It's a better squad. But there's still too much deadwood.

Players like Laird, Hannibal, Shoretire and Elanga shouldn't be being blocked by the likes of Dalot, Mata, Matic, Lingard or Martial in my opinion.

Definitely Greenwood is good enough but he needs to be moving into a central role long temr, wingers are good enough but they need to work harder.

At least 2 new midfielders and one CB are needed in the next 2 windows.

Left back and centre forward need to be longer term priorities. Shaw ain't good enough and Greenwood will need competition for the central role.

 

[Pretzels81]

Much better than the 2018-19 squad.

The new manager needs to make Maguire+Pogba+Bruno+CR+Rashford+Sancho reach their full potential.

We desperately need a proper DMF.

 

[OleBoiii]

Easily better.

Goalkeepers:
DDG is in better form than he was when Ole took over. Henderson is a great backup.

Defense:
Better when judging player-for-player. Bad defensive organization by the coaching staff, a weak midfield and key players(Shaw and Maguire) being in poor form has flattered our opponents.

Midfield:
Slightly worse if we don't include attacking midfield. Better if we include them(Bruno and VDB).

Attackers:
The biggest improvement by far. No need to elaborate.

_______________________________

Whoever takes over has a much easier job than Van Gaal, Mourinho and Ole had.

 

[Kentonio]

We've forgotten how good some of these players are

You should all bear this point in mind. Before Tuchel took over for us, we were hearing week in, week out from many Chelsea fans about how our defenders were sub-par and nowhere near good enough for a title challenging side. Rudiger was apparently a donkey, Christiansen just not good enough etc etc.

A lot of people will likely be shocked at the change at United if you get a top drawer manager in. You have serious quality in your squad. It's not perfect but it doesn't need to be. City set a wildly unreasonable standard with their buying big in every position and even then it hasn't guaranteed them the title every year.

 

[King Azaz the Unabridged]

Can't be bothered running through position by position paragraphs, but yes, it's a very good squad. Better than the squad Solskjaer inherited - as you'd expect given the massive investment. And that squad itself was nowhere near the train wreck the #Mou cult paints it as.

All these players will look miles better under a top tactician. When Chelsea got rid of Lampard, half their fanbase thought Rudiger was garbage and Jorginho was a Championship sideways-passing merchant.

 

[MrSingh2002]

The squad is better but he should have got rid of Jones, Mata and Pereira on permanent deals.

 

[Tarrou]

it was really shit back then and I think it's pretty good now

one good midfield signing and a good manager and we should be getting a tune out of this squad

 

[InspiRED]

We have quality players, no doubt about it. The squad is much better. I don't think that's the work of some genius tbh, if anyone who knows anything about football spent £400m the squad will obviously be better. Apart from DM, most managers in the world would lick their lips looking at that squad.

On Maguire specifically, he is no way as bad as he has been playing. Never an £80m CB but he is not a write off. See case in point Shaw who at times looked best LB in the world last season. PLenty here to work with. A couple of sales to fund a DM and a good manager will have this team ticking over.

 

[Castia]

The squad is much better but he spent something like 400m didn’t he?

 

[Ixion]

This squad isnt anywhere near winning the league. I dont know where people get that idea from, it has never been in a title race or won anything. You don't just suddenly win the League, Klopp's Pool got to back to back CL finals before winning it, we've barely been able to get out of the group stages.

 

[Jezpeza]

The squad is much better but he spent something like 400m didn’t he?

yes however LVG and JM spent a lot of money on the likes of Darmian, Schneiderlin, Depay, Blind, etc etc. spending money doesnt mean you exclusively improve the squad

 

[2 man midfield]

I think the base level is higher, they’ve just been brow beaten by shit coaching and non-existent tactics. Maguire - there’s a good defender in there somewhere. Sancho, Van De Beek, Greenwood, Rashford - they’re all good players that with some coaching can do well for us. The right manager can do that. Add in players like Varane, Ronaldo and Bruno and I think it’s fair to say we have a better first eleven.

Under Jose it was two of Smalling, Jones or Rojo at centre back, with Young, Valencia or Darmian at full back. The midfield was better with a younger Matic and Herrera, but Pogba was sulking, Lingard was a horror show and Lukaku was being Lukaku.

Overall I think Ole has improved the squad, which isn’t a surprise given the money he’s spent, but just lacks the coaching nous to get them playing like the players they can be. A top class coach will do that.

 

[Judas]

It's better, but it's still got a lot of work to do be done.

 

[Jezpeza]

This squad isnt anywhere near winning the league. I dont know where people get that idea from, it has never been in a title race or won anything. You don't just suddenly win the League, Klopp's Pool got to back to back CL finals before winning it, we've barely been able to get out of the group stages.

if we had beaten Villa, Leicester and Watford and turned the draws into wins against Everton and Southampton i believe we would be second by a point. Thats despite us losing to city and liverpool. Yes the midfield isnt the best but we should be in the mix and have had maximum points out of those fixtures. Thats the problem, we’ve been unable to win the bread and butter fixtures.

we need a clinical coach who comes in an wins the bread and butter fixtures.

 

[Ixion]

if we had beaten Villa, Leicester and Watford and turned the draws into wins against Everton and Southampton i believe we would be second by a point. Thats despite us losing to city and liverpool. Yes the midfield isnt the best but we should be in the mix and have had maximum points out of those fixtures. Thats the problem, we’ve been unable to win the bread and butter fixtures.

we need a clinical coach who comes in an wins the bread and butter fixtures.

But even if those results had all gone our way and we were second by a point its only November. Being in a title race is being there around April and May. This side has only won 2+ games in a row in 2021 ONCE, it hasn't ever shown the sustainability to be in a title race for a season and it isn't just suddenly going to happen. It has a long way to go.

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

The biggest short term problem to be addressed, although we already knew this in the summer, is the midfield. I’m not sure that any of the options we have there are good enough (not sure about VDB), so it’s probably two that we need, unless a new manager can work out how to play Pogba in there (who will probably leave anyway). The rest of the team is more or less good enough with a top manager and coaches.

 

[Jezpeza]

But even if those results had all gone our way and we were second by a point its only November. Being in a title race is being there around April and May. This side has only won 2+ games in a row in 2021 ONCE, it hasn't ever shown the sustainability to be in a title race for a season and it isn't just suddenly going to happen. It has a long way to go.

Yes but Chelsea were like us and then appointed Tuchel. He made one signing. Its not hard. We should be beating all those teams with the squad we have. If you win the bread and butter games you will be up there all season. Its not like we are a plucky underdog riding our luck to get wins - we have ronaldo, cavani, bruno, sancho, etc etc

 

[Ish]

Ole has also neglected the DM and GK position so I'm not buying this whole "he'll leave behind a great squad for the next manager", even though I was fooled at the start of the season. Assuming Cavani, Pogba, Lingard walk:

Rashford Ronaldo Sancho
Fred DM Bruno
Shaw CB Varane RB
GK

Elanga Greenwood Amad
VDB Matic McTominay
Telles Lindelof Bailly Laird
Henderson Heaton

He's spent like 300m and we still have so many gaping holes. Even if Sancho wins the Ballon D'or it was a silly signing. He's signed players in the wrong areas. Sancho VDB Ronaldo aren't players we needed (despite me liking all 3). The average CAF member that knows some names from football manager would have done a better job in that regard.

I think it’s much more than £300m. I count Maguire, AWB & Bruno and we’re already up to £200m.

 

[Giggsy13]

Whether you want to give credit to Ole or not, the squad is better 3 years later. Sancho, Bruno, Varane and VDB are all quality long term signings. Maguire and AWB are debatable but I think a new and better manager could them playing at a higher level than now. Can only look up when you’re at rock bottom.

 

[Sultan]

There's no doubt Ole has left the club with a much better squad. However, this has been at a cost.

Even with a bloated squad the players out on the pitch just look too comfortable knowing they will be picked. Having a big squad should keep the players motivated and be training and playing knowing their places are on the line if they don't give their best. They are simply just not making the effort required at this level. The stats are telling. That falls on the manager and to a certain extent on the psyche of the players.

I also agree with posters in reference to De Gea. He excels as a reactive keeper but the fire should have been doused a few seconds earlier. This then extends to the whole defence. Maguire seems lost and visibly nervous when he's been playing for United. Is he mentally weak? He also keeps the ball for far too long giving plenty of time for the opposition to get back in shape. Obviously, the present midfielders are not helping and have been an issue both defensively. Easy to get through the lines and add extra pressure on the defence and what's worse they hardly ever produce decent opportunities for the front men.

This might be an unpopular opinion but I think Ronaldo the player could be another problem with the way the team is set up. The team has never looked as bad as they have since Ronaldo came back under Ole. Even when he's been scoring goals to keep us in the Champions League the team has looked out of sorts. Something has changed massively since his return and this seems to have had a negative effect.

 

[VanDeBank]

I think it’s much more than £300m. I count Maguire, AWB & Bruno and we’re already up to £200m.

Donny Amad Pellistri Telles is another 85. Sancho is 160. Ronnie 175m?

375m. That's insane. What the hell. We're playing relegation football. Worst manager in the history of Utd.

 

[Ish]

Donny Amad Pellistri Telles is another 85. Sancho is 160. Ronnie 175m?

375m. That's insane. What the hell. We're playing relegation football. Worst manager in the history of Utd.

Yeah, had his spending closer to around £400m from some of threads I’ve read on here. Varane?

 

[VanDeBank]

Yeah, had his spending closer to around £400m from some of threads I’ve read on here. Varane?

Wow. 400million and we're playing like Stoke.

 

[Blood Mage]

I'd say there's not a great deal of difference. Defence and attack are slightly better thanks to the arrivals of Varane, Ronaldo and Sancho (the jury is still out on him) plus the emergence of Greenwood, but there isn't much in it.

 

[2mufc0]

It's in a better state than what he inherited but still bloated in attack,although I think we will be selling a few in the coming year.

 

[Maticmaker]

Jones is recovering, so I think that’s a bit harsh to include him. Prior to receiving his new contract he was playing in the 1st team, in the England squad and then he received a career threatening injury. Not sure what the lad was supposed to contribute

I agree with this wholeheartedly.
Injuries and illness have blighted Jones career the fact that all United's managers have kept him on the books suggests they see something in the lad and his determination to get something from his career at OT, albeit the tail end.

 

[Ixion]

Under Solskjaer, United have scored a lot but conceded too many. His team conceded 183 goals in his 168 matches - an average of 1,09 per game. Mourinho's United let in 121 in 144 matches - an average of 0.84.

Only the current top four have outscored seventh-placed United this season - but only the bottom two sides, Norwich City and Newcastle United, have conceded more.

I don't know why people think our defense is better now.

 

[Andrew7582]

There's no doubt Ole has left the club with a much better squad. However, this has been at a cost.

Even with a bloated squad the players out on the pitch just look too comfortable knowing they will be picked. Having a big squad should keep the players motivated and be training and playing knowing their places are on the line if they don't give their best. They are simply just not making the effort required at this level. The stats are telling. That falls on the manager and to a certain extent on the psyche of the players.

I also agree with posters in reference to De Gea. He excels as a reactive keeper but the fire should have been doused a few seconds earlier. This then extends to the whole defence. Maguire seems lost and visibly nervous when he's been playing for United. Is he mentally weak? He also keeps the ball for far too long giving plenty of time for the opposition to get back in shape. Obviously, the present midfielders are not helping and have been an issue both defensively. Easy to get through the lines and add extra pressure on the defence and what's worse they hardly ever produce decent opportunities for the front men.

This might be an unpopular opinion but I think Ronaldo the player could be another problem with the way the team is set up. The team has never looked as bad as they have since Ronaldo came back under Ole. Even when he's been scoring goals to keep us in the Champions League the team has looked out of sorts. Something has changed massively since his return and this seems to have had a negative effect.

What's changed is that Ole has been forced to switch to a more proactive style after having such an impressive summer window. You can't play counter attacking back foot football when you've just signed Varane, Sancho and Ronaldo. The switch to a more proactive style took Ole out of his comfort zone and exposed him.

 

[SirReginald]

You need to fix the shit show you call a midfield before anything else. A decent midfield can mitigate your defenses weaknesses.

Matic - well past his use by date
Pogba - ruins total team chemistry and balance
Donny - too harsh to judge
Fred - above average, no standout ability
McT - not good enough

None of these players compliment the other.

 

[Kag]

The squad is better, in my view, but the midfield situation has been managed terribly. Much work to do there. We’re in good shape elsewhere.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Midfield - we need a major upgrade on McFred, and replace the ageing Matic. Our biggest problem this season, is midfield, who got outplayed by almost every opponents we've played. Keep VDB, replace the rest, including Pogba.

Defence - Sell Maguire, kick him out of the club, and buy another decent CB and full back. Our defence has been at Sunday league football level this season. We need to sort this out immediately.

Attack - We need to start playing with more pressing as unit, and more link up play among our attackers. Right now many of our attackers only played for themselves, and doesn't press as a unit at all. Whether Ronaldo will stay or not next season, we still need to buy another Cavani type of attacker, someone who would work their arse off for the team. A Rooney or Benzema type of forward would be ideal, not only for Ronaldo, but also for Greenwood or Rashford in future.

 

[Gehrman]

I don't know why people think our defense is better now.

Because we spent a lot of money on it.

 

[golden_blunder]

Can I just say that a lot of you are writing players off who have only played under Ole at United. It’s too early to start writing them off, let’s see how they do under a new coach/manager.

for Example Maguire for England looks a totally different player to the one panicking & making mistakes at United this is season. Why? The difference is the less toxic environment and the coaching staff

 

[TheReligion]

Being discussed in a few different threads so might as well start one here. My personal opinion is that the squad is better but not by much. And the next manager has a tonne of shit to sort out.

Ole held onto Jones, Lingard, Mata, Pereira and Bailly throughout his tenure. Are any of them an asset for the next manager? Or a headache for him to sort out?

Midfield: yeah, that’s a BIG problem . Pogba and VdB are probably on their bikes. What does the new manager do with McFred and Matic? I would keep Fred and, erm, that’s it…

Defence: are Maguire and AWB really good enough for a PL/CL winning team? Do they need to be upgraded?

Attack: we have the oldest strikers in the league. We’re probably going to need at least one new number 9 very soon. Arguably the most difficult signing to make a success of. Have Martial and Rashford improved and developed as footballers during Ole’s time in charge?

Goalkeeper: Is DDG good enough with the ball at his feet for a modern, progressive coach. Is he good enough, full stop? Best paid keeper in the world, by the way.


Discuss.

1) Not sure why VdB would leave now
2) Maguire is fine, AWB question mark
3) Forwards again fine; Need a CF to replace Cavani/Ronaldo

Ultimately the CM is the only glaring issue.

I think you underestimate what a new coach will achieve with what's already at the club.

Ole finished second with this lot last year and got us in a final and a few semis.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

It's obviously better and the next guy will obviously have less to complain about than his predecessors.

As for the defence, it's obviously better too - in terms of potential/individual quality (which is the only thing worth debating here - presumably nobody will deny that we've been shite this season). Varane alone is on a completely different level to anything we had when Ole took over. And the much maligned Maguire is a decent top level player at worst. It's not comparable at all, really.

A coach who knows his onions shouldn't struggle immensely to get some kind of tune out of this squad - he might even be able to build a very strong XI with the addition of a midfielder (and provided he figures out how to use Ronaldo in a way that doesn't hurt the collective).