More like we already have a big rebuild and issue with ego/attitude/professionalism on our hands at the moment. Dembele maybe a worthy gamble to add quality to a certain area of the team, but I am not sure about being one of the core player going through this rebuild. You know like how at sometimes in recent past, there is no denying about RashFord, Martial and Greenwood potential. But giving the key to the team when they're still too young mentally, then the gain shortlived, leaving us with even bigger rebuild that it supposed to be.
Ousmane Dembele
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I would be tempted to go for this but I expect the club to be uninterested.
It would be typical of Liverpool that they sort out his injury issues and he replaces Mane/Salah with ease.
If his injuries come back those teams have something to fall back on. Transfers are a gamble and he is a big gamble.
Dembele is already 25 years old. I wouldn't classify that as being too young to be a key player. And no, even if Dembele came he would not receive that kind of special treatment. Why do you think that?
Dembele has turned things around at Barcelona, AFTER Xavi and Barca stated he would have no place in their plans. That does not scream as an ego/professionalism issue from Dembele. If anything, that is willpower to turn his Barca days (And in the grand scheme of things, his whole career) around.
At 25 years old, Dembele should be entering his prime soon. He just needs his next club to have competent medical staffs and fitness coaches. Robben was the same injury-prone type of player at Chelsea and Real Madrid, but he turned things around at Bayern Munich and played well into his 30s. Coincidentally, Robben joined Bayern at the same age as Dembele currently is right now: 25 years old. See the pattern here?
It's because we are in a very unideal condition as a football team that we NEED to take risks now. The failed transfers of previous years left us in frustration not only because of reasons but also because of how lazy they were scouting-wise. We mostly opted for the "safe" Premier League options (Harry Maguire, Wan-bissaka...) or big stars who everyone knew would cost a ton of money (Di Maria, Pogba...). We rarely ventured ourselves into unknown territories and got the type of "great risk great reward" transfers. Bruno Fernandes was one of the rare times when we went ahead with our scouting judgement and not what Europe thought as "trendy". That's why Bruno's transfer generated so much excitement when he flourished and took us to top 4 two times.
Why are we looking at Liverpool with envy these days? It's not just because they are quite successful these days. It's because we see how they dare to take risk with assertion and actual cleverness. They took risk on Klopp although he failed badly at Dortmund's last season. They took risk on Mane (Premier League's midtable player according the CAF at that time). They took risk on Robertson despite he was a Championship player with Hull (while we only got to Maguire AFTER he had made a name for himself at Leicester). They took risk on Salah despite he was labelled as a Chelsea reject who couldn't make it in the Premier League. The list just goes on. They took on many gambles while they were still rebuilding, not concerning if they could afford to take them at that time (Like how many of us are perceiving the Dembele deal right now). That assertiveness is what drives Liverpool's success at the moment.
You mentioned Dembele as a big gamble. That is correct. Big gambles come with big rewards. We are in very weakened state right now as a team. I don't think we can't afford big gambles because we are currently bad. It's exactly because we are bad that we need to be brave and take on big gambles, trusting our own assessment of the situation rather than how the mass perceives it. Dembele comes with great risk, but that's exactly why we have a chance to secure a player of his calibre (When he is in top form) right now for free.
A lot of us share the same sentiment that we need to reinforce too many positions this summer. Isn't a free, effective transfer of a top-class player in our supposedly weak position the exact thing we need? If we are still afraid of the risk and not dare to action, dare I ask which transfer is exactly a sure-fire bet in this day and age anyway?
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The term is maturity.
Rashford and Martial are in same age group. They're as mature to take the talisman role or leadership. He is asking for the wage for the ace of the team and even with his form since new year, he's not worth that. There is a lot on that would be paying for potential.
You wrote a lot but very well off the mark.
Robben has injury issue, but he had no issue following strict manager like Mourinho instruction. He's starter for Chelsea, Real Madrid, Netherland NT all those years, before he joined Bayern.
Dembele talent is unquestionable. He doesn't need much willpower to compete against Memphis, Luuk de Jong, Braiwte. This Barcelona is worse than those teams Robben played, or they shouldn't have played in EL and soundly beat by Frankfurt.
Mane said he already agreed term to joined us, but then on last minute joined Liverpool after a call from Klopp. You narrative doesn't fit. What about VVD? PL proven. At the end of the day it's just about signing the right players.
You're the one obsessed with Liverpool. Just because we did bad, doesn't mean people have to envy Liverpool like you do. There are other clubs to model off. Please don't generalize everyone here as "we" "us" just because they support the same club. Many here are not supportive of many of our bad signings. The very same people may be saying the same about O.Dembele, does that make the right or wrong?
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Please go to Bayern or PSG. Don't want him in the PL unless it's with us.
I remember seeing Dembele and Mbappe tear England apart in 2017. I thought he looked just as good as Mbappe and he would be one of the best in the world if not the best. Funny how things work out but hes definitely ultra talented.
You stated Robben had injuries record, but had no issue following strict managers like Mourinho. You think Xavi is any less strict regarding his football philosophy? The one who was called the embodiment of Tiqui-taca itself still used Dembele even after both he and the board said Dembele's time at Barcelona had come to an end. You think that does not display a fair share of willpower from Dembele himself?
Robben started for Chelsea, Real Madrid, Netherland NT. Dembele also started for Dortmund, Barcelona (at some points) and also the France NT. He even got himself the World Cup in 2018. That's not inferior to Robben.
About the point with Liverpool, I used them as an example because their model also fit United the most at the moment. We don't have the infinite pit of money to go the City road. Liverpool did it like a real club, using smart investment and clear vision to turn their otherwise average players into top ones. We could do the same thing, but with more money than Liverpool. There's nothing wrong with learning things from a rival if they are doing well.
Xavi the player maybe embodiment of Tiqui-taca itself. The coach as seen so far. Not so much.
Barcelona is broke, had a bunch of second rate forwards, which they ended up backing away from their bluff, and started Dembele because he's naturally better than most of the rest. It was not the same case previously where Messi and co were still around. Dembele was benched even when he was fit back then.
That Dortmund is not comparable to RM or Chelsea, and Dembele was only there for one season. Dortmund was not even a serious challenger to Bayern dominance. While Chelsea won back to back PL. Real Madrid won La Liga with Robben before Pep became Barcelona coach. Dembele's Barcelona tenure has been full of stop and start. There is very little proof that Dembele is considered starter, let alone a mature player.
Dembele lost his starting place for France NT after the opening against Australia in the World Cup. Dembele role is not that different to Coman (older of course)who is also an injury prone player is more experienced with France. He was there when France reached Euro 2016 final. Dembele World Cup medal is more about his team mate than his contribution which is like most of his Barcelona tenure is stop & start, and no contribution in later state. Robben was Netherland starter since he earned it during EURO 2004. Only injury prevented him to start more during all those years he's active with Netherland NT at similar age.
Rinse your mouth please.
Even with Klopp they had themselves some dud signings in Naby Keita, and Ox. Common theme is Klopp can't fix injury prone players. If Dembele is the profile for club like Liverpool, why are they not in for him. Mane is leaving. Salah may stay next season but they can't find agreement on new contract wage. Maybe Dembele is asking too much, which is very unlike Liverpool. Dembele is too expensive and too injury prone for Liverpool, why would he suit us?
If you're Dembele fan, it's Okay if I like him, but please stop the embarrassing vomit inducing Liverpool ass kissing, then talking about "we" , "us". Not everyone is one the same page on that.
We should be all over it. We need some one to replace Greenwood and cant think of any one better than this guy. We are freeing up Pogba,Cavani's wages, we should be able to afford his wages and any signing bonus. He might not interested in joining us when there is so much demand but he would be a great signing to any attacking team.
I find it strange to understand why we aren’t all over this one unless he’s looking for crazy wages . It would be nice to see us buy an outfield who’s not in their 30’s on a free 
He is injured a lot. Played the equivalent of 15 full games this season.I find it strange to understand why we aren’t all over this one unless he’s looking for crazy wages . It would be nice to see us buy an outfield who’s not in their 30’s on a free
My reservations are the same they’ve always been. In a more physically intense league I don’t see his injury record improving despite his obvious talent.
I'd go for him. Free transfer and bags of ability. Injuries would be a concern but he's played a decent lot for Barcelona this past season. People talk about mentality and maybe he's not top class in this aspect but the French posters don't seem to think irs an issue.
At the end of the day given the standard of our wingers you can't not go for a player this talented IMO. His technical ability is off the charts. He can be our new Nani- brilliant and a tad frustrating. At least he has brilliance.
At the end of the day given the standard of our wingers you can't not go for a player this talented IMO. His technical ability is off the charts. He can be our new Nani- brilliant and a tad frustrating. At least he has brilliance.
Cavani Mk II in the EPL
Talented but we don’t need someone new taking Phil Jones residency in the Physio room
Talented but we don’t need someone new taking Phil Jones residency in the Physio room
He's quite unreliable, both in terms of availability (relatively frequent injuries) and performance when he's available. He's sort of moody, probably not intentionally lazy, but he needs to actually be "feeling it" to have an effective game, if not, he tends to be anonymous or even downright harmful to the team. Considering he'll be asking for huge wages, I'd probably steer clear of him. If wages are reasonable he's probably worth a punt.
It would be gamble for sure, but I think it is worth it. For the similar reason you mentioned, not many clubs would offer good wages and longer contract.
So for 3+1 year contract, it might not be a bad deal. If we can get 15 PL games from him it should be pretty good as long as he contributes in those games.
My worry is, if we have to pay transfer fees for right winger, we might end-up without buying any-one and go with current players which is worse than buying Dembele.
Thats a big if, he also has an attitude not fit for us and would want stupid wages too.
It would be a silly deal
Sure, let's all complain that a lot of our players don't seem to care on the pitch, or have attitude problems. Let's all complain about the fact that our youngish players like Rashford, Martial are on big wages. Let's complain about signing players with injury issues.
Then let's go on and sign Dembele on a 2+1 year deal. Well done. How is signing someone who'll likely be on massive wages for 3 years a low risk idea?
Then let's go on and sign Dembele on a 2+1 year deal. Well done. How is signing someone who'll likely be on massive wages for 3 years a low risk idea?
These sort of gambles rarely go our way, I just don't really fancy going for him at all.
Wouldn't be against it and would be excited if he signs........... He does have risks though so if we pass I'd fully understand why.
If he goes to Chelsea maybe we could make a cheeky bid for Ziyech.
I still like him a lot - was hoping we'd sign him from Chelsea when it looked like they'd get rid of him. Instant replacement for guys like Mata + Greenwood.
But... but .... but when he's fit and... and... on his day he's unplayable. And he's got 99 skill in FIFA....
I just looked at his entire career after I saw this.
To me it looks like in just over 200 games / appearances he's actually only played the equivalent of about 60 full 90s in his whole career so far.
Why the feck would anyone want to sign that, even for free? Wouldn't even give him a pay as you play deal.
A small correction, he isn't injured a lot per se, he has had 3 big injuries, 2 hamstring injuries including an hamstring avulsion and a knee injury.
Regardless of the number of injuries, 102 La Liga games in 5 seasons means he's been injured a lot of the time.
The thing is he's not particularly lazy, work-shy, or problematic in terms of attitude. He can't play as regularly as he should and he's a bit aloof and not especially strong mentally, it seems. Those are pretty serious drawbacks, there's no need to make up fake ones.
I would say that he has a missed a lot of games not that he has been injured a lot because we are really only talking about relatively few injuries. To me there is a big difference between a player that missed games due to a multitude of niggling injuries and a player that has missed a lot of time due to injuries that required long treatment. For example Robben had the same niggling injuries for his entire career, he played a similar proportion of games than Dembélé but it was mainly on missing games here and there, it was his "normal" cycle. In the case of Dembélé we don't really know, he wasn't injury prone before Barcelona and his injuries are a bit freakish when it comes to the severity.
Okay but these strike me as injuries that explosive players very rarely recover from. Im quite sure his impact is going to be curtailed as a result of these.
We should 100% be in for him on a free. Its a no brainer.
Its never free though is it? Probably an €80m investment over the next four years.
Sign him up. We need to evaluate our medical team/physio’s progress under ETH and assuming Pogba, Cavani are gone, our medical facilities may be under utilized a tad, with just Phil Jones there.
Funnily enough it hasn't changed anything when it comes to his pace or agility. He recovered without particular change, interestingly the same applies to Coman or Robben, nowadays players comeback from these type of injuries without much issues.
It’s the complete opposite to a no-brainer. You’re effectively gambling on every pattern in his career to date from lax approach to training and preparation to a record of serious injuries (including to his hamstrings) stopping the moment he signs the dotted line for United. In exchange for this record, you’ll be paying enormous wages and more than likely a hefty signing on bonus. Can’t believe people would actually support this move regardless of his talent.
Liverpool should be all over him as a Mane replacement. Or even a Salah replacement.
Their reluctance to spend on wages though will see them left behind by the oil clubs and a few of the other big spenders.
Their reluctance to spend on wages though will see them left behind by the oil clubs and a few of the other big spenders.
Ziyech comes with his own attitude problems, from what I've seen of him, he gets nervous in big moments and big games, looks devoid of confidence.
We've got enough players of that ilk here.
Yeah, don’t see either of them meeting Murtough’s criteria that they would outrun and outfight their opposition.
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