Out of control dogs/dog attacks

Spark

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Literally, "no u". You and Langster are literally missing all the valid points being made, sitting in an echo chamber and pretending no one is understanding you points.

All big dogs above certain size and weight should require license and insurance and then let the insurance companies calculate the risk of any "marketing" breed. They tend to be very good at that. So the next time someone comes up with the new marketing ploy breed called "Baby Butcher XX-fecking-L" you don't need to do feck all. Their weight and size will immediately mark them as dogs needing insurance and the insurance companies will charge premiums based on a number of factors including statistical precedence. And when the premium for baby butcher comes out to a grand month, that will prevent legal ownership of them by the vast majority. Problem sorted



Agree 100% with the above though.
Did you read my post? You've basically just copied what I've said and then said I disagreed with you. Bizarre to be honest.

The only thing I'd argue against is that all dogs regardless of size should require a licence. The inbreeding of pure breeds is what leads to extreme extenuations of genetics, as well as being ridiculously cruel. At one point (not sure if still the case, because they actually did step in) there were 50 pugs in the gene pool for every 1000.
 

Pogue Mahone

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Did you read my post? You've basically just copied what I've said and then said I disagreed with you. Bizarre to be honest.

The only thing I'd argue against is that all dogs regardless of size should require a licence. The inbreeding of pure breeds is what leads to extreme extenuations of genetics, as well as being ridiculously cruel. At one point (not sure if still the case, because they actually did step in) there were 50 pugs in the gene pool for every 1000.
But they do? My dog has a license anyway.
 

Spark

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Ireland. They’re mandatory here. I always assumed dog licenses were mandatory in the UK too?
Literally anyone can have a dog in the UK with no licence. Ireland doing things better in that regard.

I shit you not, when I lived in Hoxton in London, there was a bloke walking a Kangal around Shoreditch Park. Supposedly lived in a two bed flat… He had to walk it with this weird rope lead that wrapped round his body.

A dog bred to guard sheep from wolves in the Turkish mountains with a 40 mile range, in central London… Famous for having zero recall and basically considering everything it steps on its territory :lol: Probably confused as feck by all the cockerpoos knocking about.

That’s the level of moron we’re dealing with.
 

Pogue Mahone

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MiceOnMeth

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That’s very sad but in rural Greece they might be needed to protect livestock from Wolves? Very different to penis extensions living in suburban semis. Obviously similar issues around controlling your animal but at least ownership is justified.
I work with a similar dog breed. It's a central Asian shepherd/Caucasian mix and this thing is bloody terrifying when it's in defense mode. I suppose they have to be pretty intimidating to ward off wolves and bears but would absolutely be a liability in a built up area.
 

MiceOnMeth

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Literally anyone can have a dog in the UK with no licence. Ireland doing things better in that regard.

I shit you not, when I lived in Hoxton in London, there was a bloke walking a Kangal around Shoreditch Park. Supposedly lived in a two bed flat… He had to walk it with this weird rope lead that wrapped round his body.

A dog bred to guard sheep from wolves in the Turkish mountains with a 40 mile range, in central London… Famous for having zero recall and basically considering everything it steps on its territory :lol: Probably confused as feck by all the cockerpoos knocking about.

That’s the level of moron we’re dealing with.
I'd still feel much safer around a Kangal than a Pitbull. A Kangal won't just maul you for sneezing in it's direction.
 

hobbers

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I'd still feel much safer around a Kangal than a Pitbull. A Kangal won't just maul you for sneezing in it's direction.
Also they're scary beasts but bred like that for a noble purpose. Not just for bloodsport, or for when you want to lord it over the council estate but are too broke to afford the lease on a BMW.
 

Spark

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I'd still feel much safer around a Kangal than a Pitbull. A Kangal won't just maul you for sneezing in it's direction.
It’s the equivalent of having one of those Greek shepherds in inner London. Also a Kangal won’t necessarily maul you, but taken out of its natural habitat it’ll grow restless and therefore have a higher chance of reactivity. And they’re fecking massive, can’t be let off lead and naturally hate other dogs (“instinctive weariness”).

Should be required to own an acre of land securely fenced if you want one in the UK, yet alone live in a 2 bed flat in central London.
 

stevoc

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Ireland. They’re mandatory here. I always assumed dog licenses were mandatory in the UK too?
How enforced are they down south though mate?

They're mandatory up here in the North too but to be honest most people don't bother even getting one. I have licences for ours but to be honest I can't remember ever being asked for them for anything. Training, Vets etc.
 

Dr. Dwayne

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How enforced are they down south though mate?

They're mandatory up here in the North too but to be honest most people don't bother even getting one. I have licences for ours but to be honest I can't remember ever being asked for them for anything. Training, Vets etc.
Yeah I'd say they're pretty meaningless. Little more than a municipal cash grab. It's unlikely that a bureaucrat would ever get off their arse to give you a citation for having an unlicensed dog and it's not like you have to demonstrate any competence when getting that license anyway.
 

stevoc

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Yeah I'd say they're pretty meaningless. Little more than a municipal cash grab. It's unlikely that a bureaucrat would ever get off their arse to give you a citation for having an unlicensed dog and it's not like you have to demonstrate any competence when getting that license anyway.
Yeah same up here, I send the Belfast City Council £12.50 every year and they send me a piece of paper that I shove in a drawer never to think about again.
 

Fortitude

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You cited the Alsatian, but what about Rottweiler’s, whom can be categorised in the same class (alongside Doberman’s, etc.)?

Your bolded:

I don’t wish to sound like some mad advocate for the breed as I’m not one, but the point still stands about them and it’ll always be a given that attacks by them are highly likely to be life-altering or fatal.

I was curious so quickly googled and most normal sites aren’t dissimilar in their lists to this.

Do you know why that is (in my opinion, why)? It’s because the proliferation of truly lethal dogs in homes is low as Cane Corso’s, Dogo Argetinos, Tibetan Mastiffs, Fila Brasileiro’s, Tosa’s, Presa Canario’s (just list a bunch of mastiffs to go alongside the larger terriers) and so on are rare, expensive and not easy to source. These are truly lethal, like pit bulls and Rottweiler’s but there are so few of them in normal homes that their data point is negligible. The biggest mistake was having a powder keg breed bred, bastardised and farmed all over the world; you’ve an outlier breed - one that should be classified with the aforementioned - in homes as one of the most popular breeds… what could possibly go wrong with that?

Crux of my argument is if the same was done with any of the above, they’d be the infamous demon dog because all of these breeds are way beyond the remit of normal people, let alone the incompetents most likely to own them (in the case of the Pit and XL).

If you were to liken it to guns, it’d be the equivalent of asking why any citizen needs full or semi-automatic weapons and yet they’re the weapons of choice on so many murder sprees.

The data will always be skewed. Does that matter? I don’t know… why? Because the issue of lethality cannot be ignored and these episodes will continue to happen even if attacks are relatively low compared to other breeds.

As I said before, I know of a few homes with the demon breed in them with zero incident, but it doesn’t betray the likelihood it only takes one go in any of those homes for another horror statistic.

Banning the breed sounds like a fantastic catch-all statement, like cheering when the figurehead of an evil organisation is felled, not realising the institution has other branches and a new evil to readily take its place. Ban these breeds; unscrupulous, clever breeders will concoct something new and equally threatening that has no legislation but isn’t a Pit or XL. And further to that, the huge hole in the market would open the doors to a massive race to fill said hole. It would be a bigger boom economy than the one for these breeds. Unless a proper plan is put in place that has no loopholes or exploitation points, this dangerous breed problem will just be a case of kicking the can down the road.

Another way to put the above paragraph is likening it to banning an extremely popular drug. The moment that happens the race is on to gobble up the newly open market space and it’s a free for all with regulations lagging way behind. Illegal drug, the same; remove anything dominant in the market and it becomes a race to fill the void.

As an aside, all those lethal breeds are the same size or even bigger than XL’s. Most humans haven’t a prayer against any of them.
To the bolded, plenty of media outlets running with this: https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/new-powerful-dog-breed-could-31798953

So predictable, and any dog breeder who was dealing in pits and XL's will now be flooding the market with Cane Corso's.

I'll give it about 18 months before we start hearing about horrific attacks by this breed around the UK.
 

Wibble

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The thing about these dog breeds is, that I have never met a person owning or wanting a dog like this of whom I thought they could responsibly handle them. And I simply don't see the appeal for a reasonable person to own these breeds. Why does your dog have to be huge and potentially dangerous? Why is a typical, "normal" dog not good enough? They display all the positive characteristics of other dogs, but without the immense potential dangers. So the potential danger is usually the point. Most people having these dogs, have them for precisely this reason.
We met a bloke of the beach the other day with a largish young muscle dog of some sort. It probably weighed almost as much as him (as he was built like a glass of water) and when it wanted to play with other dogs he could only stop it by grabbing it and sitting down. Luckily it seemed very friendly but there is zero chance he could control it if it got into a dog fight. And even the nicest dogs do sometimes get into disputes with other dogs. But with most pet dogs it is just the equivalent of kids pushing and shoving with the crowd yelling "fight", but with many of the breeds of concern this is not the case. Once things start dogs (and in some cases people) get badly hurt and/or die.

Identifying breeds is obviously not 100% straightforward but looking at this list it also isn't irrelevant.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_Kingdom

One of the outliers is stunning. A 3 month old was killed by a husky her parents were exercising in a public off-leash area - one of 19. 19 off-leash huskies and a very small child. Who could have seen that coming? Kinell.
 

calodo2003

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We met a bloke of the beach the other day with a largish young muscle dog of some sort. It probably weighed almost as much as him (as he was built like a glass of water) and when it wanted to play with other dogs he could only stop it by grabbing it and sitting down. Luckily it seemed very friendly but there is zero chance he could control it if it got into a dog fight. And even the nicest dogs do sometimes get into disputes with other dogs. But with most pet dogs it is just the equivalent of kids pushing and shoving with the crowd yelling "fight", but with many of the breeds of concern this is not the case. Once things start dogs (and in some cases people) get badly hurt and/or die.

Identifying breeds is obviously not 100% straightforward but looking at this list it also isn't irrelevant.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_Kingdom

One of the outliers is stunning. A 3 month old was killed by a husky her parents were exercising in a public off-leash area - one of 19. 19 off-leash huskies and a very small child. Who could have seen that coming? Kinell.
Wow, there's just so much wrong with your last paragraph, what a toxic mix of idiocy, ignorance, & immaturity those people displayed
 

Pogue Mahone

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Helston, Cornwall, England – It was determined that the victim had had an epileptic seizure and her dog had attempted to pick her up by the scruff of the neck as a mother dog would lift a puppy. There was no evidence of a 'savaging' of the victim, and victim's 22-month-old daughter was in the same room unharmed. The dog, 13-month-old Frentzen, which had previously acted confused when victim was having a seizure, was euthanized.
:(
 

Pogue Mahone

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As an aside, it's cases like this which are the basis for the "all dogs kill" argument that's been used in this thread a few times (I think by @langster ?)

England – Mr McCall was playing tug of war with his 16 months old female springer spaniel when she accidentally bit the back of his hand. Mr McCall became unwell the following day, and sought treatment at the out of hours service where he got antibiotics prescribed. Upon returning home Mr McCall’s symptoms worsened and he was admitted to the Royal Hampshire County Hospital on November 15, where he died three days later.
Technically, that's one fatality awarded to the Springer Spaniel breed. Compare and contrast with the fatalities from breeds like pitbulls and rotweillers detailed on the same wiki page.
 

Wibble

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As an aside, it's cases like this which are the basis for the "all dogs kill" argument that's been used in this thread a few times (I think by @langster ?)



Technically, that's one fatality awarded to the Springer Spaniel breed. Compare and contrast with the fatalities from breeds like pitbulls and rotweillers detailed on the same wiki page.
Utter bullshit even including such an event. Spaniels and setters are as dangerous as rabbits.
 

Murder on Zidane's Floor

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I'm at a large dog show event today, no issues and you have about seventy different breed types here.

I'm a dog person, involved in dog community stuff and I support the ban.
 

hobbers

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In before it turns out to be those pesky Springer Spaniels again.
 

Penna

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Some drill rapper who was also a dog breeder owned the XL bullies which killed that poor woman in Jaywick. There was also a litter of puppies. The owner must have known the new law was coming into place, and still bred these monstrous animals. Now there's 6 more puppies which will presumably also be destroyed.

Rest in peace Esther Martin, it was a horrible and avoidable tragedy.