Parents sentenced after their child dies, with 60(!) broken bones.

[RoadTrip]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-60166481

So painful to read stories like this. But the main reason I wanted to post this (and apologies if there is a thread somewhere already), is how on earth are the sentences so light? Disgraceful.

 

[The Corinthian]

RIP to the little angel. That’s absolutely sickening…hard to comprehend a human being is capable of such depravity, especially the primary caregivers.

 

[FireballXL5]

Their sentences are a disgrace. How anyone could do that....words fail.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Such news also brings out how lucky you are if you are born to normal sane parents.

 

[Trequarista10]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-60166481

So painful to read stories like this. But the main reason I wanted to post this (and apologies if there is a thread somewhere already), is how ab earth are the sentences so light? Disgraceful.

If it's any consolation, people who harm kids will likely face hell from the prison population.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Their sentences are a disgrace. How anyone could do that....words fail.

Medics could not establish a cause of death of "this poor child" and it was not possible to lay blame on which parent caused the fatal injuries and who stood back and allowed it to happen, the court heard.

This is the crucial point. These cases are very hard to prove as murder in a court of law so usually end up with some sort of lesser charge to get a conviction of some sort. There was one case on Channel 4’s 24 Hours in Police Custody where a baby was believed to have been shook by the father and ended up profoundly disabled and in need of 24 hour care for the rest of its life. In the end he was charged with ABH and only got three years. Apparently this isn’t uncommon.

 

[Carolina Red]

Medics could not establish a cause of death of "this poor child" and it was not possible to lay blame on which parent caused the fatal injuries and who stood back and allowed it to happen, the court heard.

This is the crucial point. These cases are very hard to prove as murder in a court of law so usually end up with some sort of lesser charge to get a conviction of some sort. There was one case on Channel 4’s 24 Hours in Police Custody where a baby was believed to have been shook by the father and ended up profoundly disabled and in need of 24 hour care for the rest of its life. In the end he was charged with ABH and only got three years. Apparently this isn’t uncommon.

It's mind boggling that this is an effective defense.

 

[calodo2003]

It's mind boggling that this is an effective defense.

Minds are being boggled today all over the Caf.

What a nauseating story this is.

 

[Carolina Red]

Minds are being boggled today all over the Caf.

What a nauseating story this is.

Yep. Sums it up.

 

[RoadTrip]

Medics could not establish a cause of death of "this poor child" and it was not possible to lay blame on which parent caused the fatal injuries and who stood back and allowed it to happen, the court heard.

This is the crucial point. These cases are very hard to prove as murder in a court of law so usually end up with some sort of lesser charge to get a conviction of some sort. There was one case on Channel 4’s 24 Hours in Police Custody where a baby was believed to have been shook by the father and ended up profoundly disabled and in need of 24 hour care for the rest of its life. In the end he was charged with ABH and only got three years. Apparently this isn’t uncommon.

Sadly I’d expected something like this to be the reason for the sentences. But as pointed out, it’s a pathetic reason

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

 

[Peter van der Gea]

I said in the Arthur thread, people who have had kids need to be checked upon, not just to see if the kid weighs enough, but to support, and evaluate, new parents psychologically. Too many kids have dickhead parents.

 

[Wibble]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-60166481

So painful to read stories like this. But the main reason I wanted to post this (and apologies if there is a thread somewhere already), is how on earth are the sentences so light? Disgraceful.

Not enough evidence to prove which one killed her. Just because they both "deserve" life doesn't mean you can prove murder beyond a reasonable doubt. Sadly.

 

[VidaRed]

For crimes like these the perpetrator should be drawn, hanged and quartered.

They should receive painful prolonged deaths.

 

[Scarlett Dracarys]

For crimes like these the perpetrator should be drawn, hanged and quartered.

They should receive painful prolonged deaths.

Whatever you do, don't run them over with a car.

 

[Carolina Red]

Whatever you do, don't run them over with a car.

“How do we know the child didn’t attack them first?”, right?

 

[Rhyme Animal]

Basically this.

So sad. R.I.P little angel, you deserved better.

 

[P-Ro]

I said in the Arthur thread, people who have had kids need to be checked upon, not just to see if the kid weighs enough, but to support, and evaluate, new parents psychologically. Too many kids have dickhead parents.

Putting the logistics of this idea aside, why should every parent be forced to be checked by (presumably) a social worker to see if they're deemed good enough to continue bringing up a family? Having forced mandatory intrusion by the state into people's private lives is frightening. It's even worse if you consider that they would be evaluated not just on their actions but on their thoughts. Many people do not react well to pressure/intrusion and some will no doubt come out of this with the needless breaking up of their families when they and their children are perfectly fine.

You've spoken candidly before on here about your traumatic experiences growing up so I know this is something close to your heart. But you've also detailed the ludicrous treatment you've also had when dealing with authorities in relation to bringing up your own family and how they just won't leave you alone. I believe that non targeted psychological evaluations will wreck the lives of more children than it will save.

There needs to be a marked improvement in targeting those who are most at risk, although I'm just a dumb bloke on an internet forum so I don't have an answer for how the authorities do this. There also needs to be well funded campaigns raising awareness of the signs of child abuse to everyone and not just people who work closely with children. There's no perfect answer and no matter how hard we try, there will be awful people who find a way to slip through the cracks and hoodwink others regardless.

 

[Tarrou]

why not a murder charge?

 

[McGrathsipan]

If it's any consolation, people who harm kids will likely face hell from the prison population.

Good. They deserve nothing more than hell after what they did

 

[Bebestation]

God that baby is too cute

Why would they do that?

This is still a murder - just because its related or small age shouldn't drop the time spent in prison.

 

[Moby]

God that baby is too cute

Yeah. The article is gut wrenching enough but that photo absolutely broke me.

The worst kind of torture imaginable isn't enough for those cnuts.

 

[Peter van der Gea]

Putting the logistics of this idea aside, why should every parent be forced to be checked by (presumably) a social worker to see if they're deemed good enough to continue bringing up a family? Having forced mandatory intrusion by the state into people's private lives is frightening. It's even worse if you consider that they would be evaluated not just on their actions but on their thoughts. Many people do not react well to pressure/intrusion and some will no doubt come out of this with the needless breaking up of their families when they and their children are perfectly fine.

You've spoken candidly before on here about your traumatic experiences growing up so I know this is something close to your heart. But you've also detailed the ludicrous treatment you've also had when dealing with authorities in relation to bringing up your own family and how they just won't leave you alone. I believe that non targeted psychological evaluations will wreck the lives of more children than it will save.

There needs to be a marked improvement in targeting those who are most at risk, although I'm just a dumb bloke on an internet forum so I don't have an answer for how the authorities do this. There also needs to be well funded campaigns raising awareness of the signs of child abuse to everyone and not just people who work closely with children. There's no perfect answer and no matter how hard we try, there will be awful people who find a way to slip through the cracks and hoodwink others regardless.

I get what you're saying about the intrusion, and you're right, we've had social services in our kids' lives for nearly a decade now, mainly because they are worried about how my upbringing might affect my parenting. And I have learnt lots with their help.​

But here's where I think it could be changed. Firstly, it felt far more frustrating knowing that we were part of a handful of families under the microscope. It felt persecutory. And secondly has been going on for a very long time, which is frustrating, knowing how much money they were wasting, despite us evidencing the changes we had implemented.

Civilization and society was invented so that children were cared for by specific caregivers while everyone else specialised in other skills, like hunting, gathering or farming. It's not even just us who work like this, apes, primates and other social animals work in this way. You're right, society does need to look out for signs of child abuse, but currently we are relying on laymen to make the judgement on whether it's happening or not, rather than specialists.

If every child were supported for the first couple of years, maybe a visit twice or three times a week, one, cases like this would be a lot harder to hide, two, it would be a normal part of parenting, so, expected, even welcomed, and thirdly, it would be early prevention, rather than having to find cures for damaged children down the line.

That means, rather than a quick triage, and cherry picking a few families to pour all the resources into for the next decade, support all the families for the first few years, and you should see less of a need for longer term care.

 

[SilentWitness]

Vile, bad enough to be a child, but your own child. Should be locked away for far longer. Poor little girl.

 

[Cloud7]

For crimes like these the perpetrator should be drawn, hanged and quartered.

They should receive painful prolonged deaths.

Agreed.

 

[Solius]

Blamed the paramedics as well. fecking cnuts. That sentence is a fecking disgrace.

 

[P-Ro]

If every child were supported for the first couple of years, maybe a visit twice or three times a week, one, cases like this would be a lot harder to hide, two, it would be a normal part of parenting, so, expected, even welcomed, and thirdly, it would be early prevention, rather than having to find cures for damaged children down the line.

That means, rather than a quick triage, and cherry picking a few families to pour all the resources into for the next decade, support all the families for the first few years, and you should see less of a need for longer term care.

Thankfully this will never happen, or at least not in my lifetime. You're proposing that people who have the power to remove custody of your children get hundreds of opportunities to gather information to do so. Even just one mandatory assessment meeting would be too much for most people to stomach, yet alone hundreds. No government could ever propose such a thing and hope to get it through parliament.

 

[diarm]

8 years?

That poor child barely even got 8 weeks. How they haven't both gone down for murder is completely beyond me. They should take the average life expectancy for a girl in the UK and then lock the pair of them up for as many years as they took from her.

 

[Peter van der Gea]

Thankfully this will never happen, or at least not in my lifetime. You're proposing that people who have the power to remove custody of your children get hundreds of opportunities to gather information to do so. Even just one mandatory assessment meeting would be too much for most people to stomach, yet alone hundreds. No government could ever propose such a thing and hope to get it through parliament.

They have that power anyway, anyone can lose their kids if they aren't treating them right, they just aren't applying that power in an appropriate way. All the resource goes to a few families, whether they need it or not. And the rest of the children are left at risk to shit parents like these.

If you look at it as every person is at risk of losing their children because they are being checked, then either the checking is wrong or the parenting is wrong. But, if every person, white or black, rich or poor, had help and support pre-nursery, how many more well adjusted people would we have?

I understand the libertarian point of view of I don't want or need government intervention, but we aren't talking about personal rights, other than the personal rights of the child.

If you're a shit parent, that isn't your right. You have the right to treat yourself as you wish, but shit parents are damaging little people who literally don't have voice to ask for help. We can hope that parents will do the right thing by their children, but evidently, they don't. And ignoring the situation doesn't just damage the child because the damaged child is likely to go on to damage society, even their own children, in the future, and the cycle gives on.

If you ran a program that said, for the first 2,3 years of being a parent you will have a liaison, someone experienced to talk to about your stresses, someone who can give you advice from an experienced point of view, not only would the parent and child form a better bond, but you also result in a child who is less of a danger to society, which means you won't need social services down the line.

What I'm talking about is not "children's services" in the way we have them now, more like extending the midwife service that everyone gets when giving birth a couple of years, then hopefully needing far fewer social workers later

 

[Dirty Schwein]

Heartbreaking. Especially seeing the picture of the kid. I know it's wrong to say but I truly hope someone does them in in prison.

 

[Scarlett Dracarys]

“How do we know the child didn’t attack them first?”, right?

Exactly.
On a serious note though what a tragedy. This innocent child. Some people are monsters and should be treated as such.

 

[Jericholyte2]

I'd bring back punishments like chemical castration for these people!

They have so completely and absolutely abused their 'right' to have a child by destroying this miracle, that they have shown they do not deserve this privilege of having children. Remove their ability to do so and blacklist them from any fostering / adoption or similar process.

 

[calodo2003]

I'd bring back punishments like chemical castration for these people!

They have so completely and absolutely abused their 'right' to have a child by destroying this miracle, that they have shown they do not deserve this privilege of having children. Remove their ability to do so and blacklist them from any fostering / adoption or similar process.

Chemical castration would be too late in this instance, but there definitely needs to be some sort of mental / emotional means testing before having a child (although that would be nigh on impossible to do).

 

[Mr Pigeon]

I'd bring back punishments like chemical castration for these people!

They have so completely and absolutely abused their 'right' to have a child by destroying this miracle, that they have shown they do not deserve this privilege of having children. Remove their ability to do so and blacklist them from any fostering / adoption or similar process.

That's a bit harsh. I'd recommend that they have to take mandatory therapy sessions and regular community service duties that consists of having cinder blocks dropped on their heads for several hours at a time.