Pep's spending is insane (£941m and counting at City)

De Portago

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Bit of a ott reaction, he said Rafa had done well, I suppose he did under the circumstances too and if he had spent 1/2 billion in a season and half who knows what else he could have won.

Also if you’re going to mock and use smilies it’s good to write correctly while doing so.

*have. Not of
Speculating about potential results Rafa(or anyone else for that matter) would have achieved with a boatload of money makes no sense to me.

If Benitez wants to be able to spend that kind of cash, he just needs to convince PSG owners that he is the right person for the job when they inevitably get rid of Emery, nothing more. If he can't do that, that's on him...You don't just walk into that kind of opportunity.
 

RooneyLegend

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Not sure if serious? While Barcelona ain't spending like Madrid, they put up big sum overall under him and the core of great players they had, meant they didn't have to go out and buy them. Those would cost fortune to acquire. Bayern can pick off good player at good price doesn't mean they don't have resource. Also they had strong core before he took over so they need not to spend as much. And Bayern being proud of German players so he would be asked questions sidelining German internationals.

I and few others already predicted before Pep even led a game for a City that City was his dream project since there is no burden of history so he can implement his own ideas without any form of oppose. The fan ain't attached to the players so he can bench, drop, buy new players to replace, whatever the way he sees fit.

He didn't win anything last season, and he cited quality/reseource in his disposal was not good enough. Had Barcelona and Bayern were not as strong as they are, there is question regarding whether Pep can be as success.
Barca came third the season before he came in, without substantial spending the managed to stroll through a Ronaldo led Man United. Ask anyone at the time if they'd have swapped our squad for there's at the time the answer would've been a resounding no. He came in and changed the landscape of top European club football. The really big clubs generally have great players, that's no stick to hit him with. Getting them to play like they did under him is a huge achievement an one of the biggest in modern club football history.

He didn't win anything last season but they did improve, that was clear to see.
 

tomaldinho1

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Until he goes to a club where he actually has to build something and can't just buy success, I don't think I'll ever think he is as amazing as some ppl make out.

He is obviously a good manager but would his style of play work if we wasn't at City where you can literally cherry pick signings? Probably not on the basis of last season. Like or loathe Jose, his feats with both Porto and Inter are pretty remarkable and evidence of managerial ability to overcome bigger and better teams. Given Pep is always in the biggest and best team, he's never had to face this - you could argue Mou's later seasons at RM that Barca/RM were relatively evenly matched and Pep didn't exactly have it all his own way then.
 

Sandyman

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For all going on about the wage bill, doesn't Utd's wage bill include non playing staff and all employees (even the ones in London office) whereas City's is just the players wages. Or, was that bollocks?
 

Nedved

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Bayern had plenty of players turn over under him. Thing is when you can get a player like Lewandolski for free, then it doesn't reflect on your cheque book. Again Bayern already had strong core of players already there, so they wouldn't need to spend as heavy, something which Mourinho teams need as he more often than not went to team needing to go up the tier.

Edit: just look up and Kimmich, Alonso, Pepe Reina, Coman each cost less than 10 mil. Bayern has known to have these under market value deals prior and after Pep, so you can't use Pep or money value. It's more as Pep was lucky his spending figure wouldn't get significantly bigger being at the right clubs. Now with PL club tax, English, Homegrown player tax... he's surpassing former cheque book champion Mourinho in no time.
Coman cost 28 m euros. 7m for the loan and 21 for the purchase option.
 

Sterling Archer

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People change I guess.
That quote is pure gold...or for the millenials...a whole bitcoin.

It’s especially ironic thinking back to our manager at the time going on about value in the market. He then backed up his opinion with, in comparison, garishly average buys and continued to win titles and even another CL final.
 

Ban

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That quote is pure gold...or for the millenials...a whole bitcoin.

It’s especially ironic thinking back to our manager at the time going on about value in the market. He then backed up his opinion with, in comparison, garishly average buys and continued to win titles and even another CL final.
Also didn't buy a new player as soon as one got injured. If he went to buy a new CB every time we had a injury crisis in defense we would have had about 15 CBs.
 

MrPooni

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Assuming they sign Mahrez:


Mourinho

Previous league position of United in 4 seasons before he took over: 6th, 5th, 4th, 7th.

Wage Bill from 2017 financial release = £263m
Estimated adjustments:
Sanchez + ~£19m
Mkhitaryan - ~£9m

Estimated wage bill post January = ~£273m

Transfers:
£295m gross
£238m net.


Guardiola

Previous league position of City in 4 seasons before he took over: 3rd, 4th, 2nd, 1st

Wage Bill from 2017 financial release: £264m

Estimated adjustments:
Laporte + ~£8m
Mahrez + ~£8m

Estimated wage bill post January = ~£280m

Transfers:
~£497m gross
~£394m net.



Mourinho or Money?
If you have the time then I suggest you do it properly.

2017 financials relate to the end of 2016/17 season.

Recalculate factoring the following

Lukaku + Lindelof + Matic + Sanchez + Ibra new wage - Mkhi + Rooney + Ibra old wage

Ederson + Mendy + Walker + Bernardo + Danilo + Laporte + “Mahrez” + Toure new wage - Sagna + Zabaleta + Clichy + Kolarov + Caballero + Nasri + Navas + Nolito + Kelechi + Fernando + Toure old wage

And City’s 264M figure relates to a 13 month year. The adjusted figure is 243M
For all going on about the wage bill, doesn't Utd's wage bill include non playing staff and all employees (even the ones in London office) whereas City's is just the players wages. Or, was that bollocks?
Yup, City's non-playing staff are paid by a holding company rather than the football club so any apples to apples comparisons to our wage numbers don't really hold up.
 
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Sandyman

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Yup, City's none playing staff are paid by a holding company rather than the football club so any apples to apples comparisons to our wage numbers don't really hold up.
Thank you. So, no point comparing the wages because City's wages are skewed in their favor. Shock horror!
 

MrPooni

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Thank you. So, no point comparing the wages because City's wages are skewed in their favor. Shock horror!
It's also worth noting we have higher than average staffing costs due to the sheer size of our London-based marketing operation.
 

BusbyMalone

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I wish football would be more tribal sometimes. Especially around here. Pep's acolytes have infested this forum. There's no way on this earth you would get the sort of defence of Jose on Bluemoon like you do with Sir Pep on here. While objectivity is great in most things, it's jus nauseating and infuriating when it comes to things like this.

Feck him.
 

AP88

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Messi was always destined to be great; the summer Pep arrived, Xavi, Puyol and Iniesta were key elements of Spain’s European Championships winning team - he hardly inherited a team of bums at Barca, as his fanboys would love you to believe.

Pique is on record accrediting his time at United for his development as a defender, while the likes of Eto’o, Henry and Yaya Toure has been/went onto be catalystic players for other clubs too.

Here’s the reality - the Spanish continegent if that formidable Barcelona have won elite medals internationally without Pep, and with the club after him too, but he’s never scaled those heights without them.

Bayern contended 3/4 Champions League finals immediately before Pep, yet never reached one with him. Indeed Pep’s last Champions League final was 7 years ago, as recent as United’s; that’s despite having some of the best clubs/squads/players in Europe at his disposal in that since.

Since Pep last reached a Champions League final, Allegri, Zidane and Simeone have reached 2 each.
 

clarkydaz

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So last week, according to many, City was desperate for Sanchez, before losing out to United, but now when City need an attacker after losing ANOTHER attacking player, it suddenly became unneeded spending?

I dont know how are people expecting City to play the same front 3 (Aguero, Sterling, Bernardo) in the next 2 months, having 4 competitions. That is also assuming they will all stay fit. This is nonsense.

Also interesting how people love to quote how Pep bought 10 players. They will never tell you he also sold or released more than 20 players.
if that's true its staggering, and a very luxurious position to be able to do so
 

Classical Mechanic

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Messi was always destined to be great; the summer Pep arrived, Xavi, Puyol and Iniesta were key elements of Spain’s European Championships winning team - he hardly inherited a team of bums at Barca, as his fanboys would love you to believe.

Pique is on record accrediting his time at United for his development as a defender, while the likes of Eto’o, Henry and Yaya Toure has been/went onto be catalystic players for other clubs too.

Here’s the reality - the Spanish continegent if that formidable Barcelona have won elite medals internationally without Pep, and with the club after him too, but he’s never scaled those heights without them.

Bayern contended 3/4 Champions League finals immediately before Pep, yet never reached one with him. Indeed Pep’s last Champions League final was 7 years ago, as recent as United’s; that’s despite having some of the best clubs/squads/players in Europe at his disposal in that since.

Since Pep last reached a Champions League final, Allegri, Zidane and Simeone have reached 2 each.
It's absolute bollocks the narrative that his fan boys try to portray regarding the squad he inherited at Barcelona. In 2008 United fans knew that we had an amazing squad at the start of that campaign, probably the best in Europe, but the other side the United fans I know rated on a par with our team was that Barca side. They unachieved on the pitch that season in the end. but the squad, player for player, was immense.
 

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Pep....Pep....?????

WTF ?

He's the Manager of Abu Dhabi Athletic, FFS....The most artificial club in world football....

Do we call the rest of the oppositions' managers Jurgen or Arsene or Rafa or Alan or David or Sam, etc, etc, on here ??

It's Guardiola....Baldy if you want because you can't be arsed to write Guardiola...But NOT Pep !!
 

Green_Red

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Why did they pull out of the Sanchez deal then? United are portrayed as the money team and City are the moral team. Imagine Pep didn't have Aguero or Silva when he came in. That figure would be closer to a billion. This just proves to me he can't win without having an unlimited budget at his disposal. It's that simple. Otherwise Pep wouldn't have gone to Man City.
They didnt... When the big boys came to play and they knew they'd never get Sanchez over us they did that to save face.
 

Sandyman

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Pep....Pep....?????

WTF ?

He's the Manager of Abu Dhabi Athletic, FFS....The most artificial club in world football....

Do we call the rest of the oppositions' managers Jurgen or Arsene or Rafa or Alan or David or Sam, etc, etc, on here ??

It's Guardiola....Baldy if you want because you can't be arsed to write Guardiola...But NOT Pep !!
Tell us how you really feel man!
 

Green_Red

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Pep....Pep....?????

WTF ?

He's the Manager of Abu Dhabi Athletic, FFS....The most artificial club in world football....

Do we call the rest of the oppositions' managers Jurgen or Arsene or Rafa or Alan or David or Sam, etc, etc, on here ??

It's Guardiola....Baldy if you want because you can't be arsed to write Guardiola...But NOT Pep !!
:lol: Is that you Eto'o?
 

ti vu

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Barca came third the season before he came in, without substantial spending the managed to stroll through a Ronaldo led Man United. Ask anyone at the time if they'd have swapped our squad for there's at the time the answer would've been a resounding no. He came in and changed the landscape of top European club football. The really big clubs generally have great players, that's no stick to hit him with. Getting them to play like they did under him is a huge achievement an one of the biggest in modern club football history.

He didn't win anything last season but they did improve, that was clear to see.
K. Look at it like this.

1. Barcelona in Rijkaard last season, they were 1 away goal away from reaching the CL final. The edge from better coaching, tactic was close. It was hard fought victory for us. Arguably, we were better offensively on 07-08 than in 08-09

2. What is the difference between finishing 3rd and 2nd in the league? Look at Real, few months ago they achieved the feat which all the so called legendary teams, Milan in early 1900s, Lippi's Juventus, Pep's Barcelona couldn't... now they had every chance to finish 3rd. Do you fancy taking them head on? Do you think it's the player quality or coaching problem? Or it's football cycle. Not anyone is SAF who can maintain and adapt to higher standard over the year. Even Wenger's style of longevity would eventually fail to adapt to top 4 new standard. A coach peaks at a team then the team need new idea is normal. Look at Barcelona last season and now. They barely walked past PSG while being outclassed by Juve. Lost Neymar. Had Dembele sidelined for months. Their other signings were pretty similar to Pep Barcelona signed Dani Alves, Caceres, Hleb. Caceres and Hleb is costly for player of their cablire at the time. For reference, Hagreaves was bought a year ago for similar fee and at the time it was considered a key signing . Henry was transferred to Barcelona just a year ago for 24 mil. It's not like Rijkaard or Luis Enrique failed to win La Liga and CL with Barcelona. Back to point 1, is the edge from better coaching was that much?

3. Was Messi in 07-08 the same as 08-09? Player can naturally grow to be better. For all the negativity under Rijkaard in his last years, everyone could see Messi's still growing better individually. Do you think SAF didn't how to coach Ronaldo prior to 2006, and suddenly had new idea overnight which changed Ronaldo career? Or Ronaldo naturally matured under the same guidance under SAF like the past years? Before Pep even had his coaching session with Barcelona first team. Xavi, Puyol and Iniesta already being better than they were under Rijkaard in his last seasons. They're the key members of Spain NT team won EURO which countless of Spanish talented generations failed prior.
 
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Olly Gunnar Solskjær

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I wish football would be more tribal sometimes. Especially around here. Pep's acolytes have infested this forum. There's no way on this earth you would get the sort of defence of Jose on Bluemoon like you do with Sir Pep on here. While objectivity is great in most things, it's jus nauseating and infuriating when it comes to things like this.

Feck him.
Agreed.
 

ti vu

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I hate posters on here using PEP....And only slightly less than I hate Abu Dhabi Athletic.

Calling him Pep is such a feckin media-love-in thing....

You think posters on Blue Moon write about 'Jose' ??

C'mon guys....
I personally use Pep because typing Guaridollar is long and prone to typo. He can be called Josep I believe, which may be mistaken with Jose... If anyway MODs can auto change, it would be helpful

Edit: see what I meant

Edit 2:
Coman cost 28 m euros. 7m for the loan and 21 for the purchase option.
Thanks for correction.

Anyways, again this particular transfer on paper reads in favor for Pep's spending as they excludes the purchase fee toward Ancelotti years. That's where I got mistaken.
 
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adexkola

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I wish football would be more tribal sometimes. Especially around here. Pep's acolytes have infested this forum. There's no way on this earth you would get the sort of defence of Jose on Bluemoon like you do with Sir Pep on here. While objectivity is great in most things, it's jus nauseating and infuriating when it comes to things like this.

Feck him.
Yeah, but they're morons on BlueMoon. Tribalism is awesome in the stands. feck them and everything they stand for. Or if you're arguing in the bar. This thread needed more.
 

The Alchemist

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Mahrez hands in a transfer request. Spending 50M plus because one of your players is injured.. Only happens at this poverty stricken club
:lol:

Reminds me of Brooklyn Beckham dressing up as a Oliver Twist pauper from the 1930's
 

AndyJ1985

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I can't take him seriously as a manager. Yes he does a good job with the money he spends, but as far as I'm concerned he isn't fit to laces the boots of legendary managers of the past. Ferguson won the league with Tom Cleverley and Giggs in midfield. He won a treble with 5 academy players in the squad. Guardiola has to spend the wealth of a small country to amass a squad of world class players. He's ridiculous and I doubt we'll ever see him at a club that has a modest budget because he wouldn't have a clue what to do.
 

The Alchemist

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I hate posters on here using PEP....And only slightly less than I hate Abu Dhabi Athletic.

Calling him Pep is such a feckin media-love-in thing....

You think posters on Blue Moon write about 'Jose' ??

C'mon guys....
PED-Head Guardiola is more apt considering his history and record of roiding up his players and himself when he was a player
 

Robin Your Persie

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I hate posters on here using PEP....And only slightly less than I hate Abu Dhabi Athletic.

Calling him Pep is such a feckin media-love-in thing....

You think posters on Blue Moon write about 'Jose' ??

C'mon guys....
:lol:

Sums up my feelings when it comes to Baldiola.
 
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Xeno

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He’s amongst, if not the greatest of the new-era ‘coaches’, where their job is to extract the maximum from a squad, with assistance from a DoF for recruitment.

Very different role to an all-powerful Fergie type role where the ‘manager’ oversees so much more than tactics. In fact Fergie delegated much of that to his assistant.
 

Law's Law

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Knock yourself out if you want to do that, you can also remove Schneiderlin, Depay and Januzaj's wages if we're being pedantic as they left in January.
I wasn’t intending to burden you with any calculations, I was just pointing out what financial year those figures relate to, which is a fair and important point I believe.

I guess the easier way is to compare salaries of 1st team players based on latest available information, which would still result in significant lower City wage bill.

Or, we can just wait until the end of the year for the new financial reports. No need for either you or me to skew any data to suit any of our arguments.


I think we're only counting contracts that are reduced for City?
I did factor in Zlatan’s reduced wage didnt I? I was not trying to manipulate any figure. There are a few contract amendments wich would affect the remaining few months of the new financial year. I did mention KDB, Fernandino, and Otamendi when I was discussing the same thing a few days ago, although I dont think the figures for the latter 2 would be that much changed.


Yup, City's non-playing staff are paid by a holding company rather than the football club so any apples to apples comparisons to our wage numbers don't really hold up.
As I said, comparing 1st teams wage bills is more appropriate, but your point needs some clarification, as it gets mentioned regularly.

First, your claim is not entirely true. Not all non-playing staff are paid by the group.
53% of the latest wage bill was attributed to commercial and administrative staff. The remainder to all football staff, including players.

More importantly, City are not segregating costs to skew any figures.
For FFP purposes, and new reporting requirements, City had to restructure it’s reporting to make it adherent and ready for assesment at any point, instead of making new accounts for UEFA every year. There is no need for City to include spending on infrastructure, academy, womens team, other city group teams etc in their accounts, as they are excluded from FFP accounting. The academy, womens team, other teams show as different subsidiaries under the group.

In any case, City Group Financials are published every year, and in 2016, City Wage bill to Group wage bill ratio was already at 80%, so City basically does pay their fair share.
 

Ainu

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People change I guess.
It just illustrates how easy it is to speak from a position of exceptional luxury, having several players who rank among the greatest of all time come through your youth system during the same era.
 

Luis DC

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Now he has realised there isn't a player like Messi in every youth team.
I Think that we must take 3 things into account.
1 - What kind of club is Manchester City today
2 - the Market, that is insane and getting crazier every season.
3 - Guardiola.

The first two are key to understand what is going on. Manchester City passed from a local team with some history to a club that is growing at insane space, due to the oil money and they try to build what take decades to most clubs in a couple of years. They invest in youth players, in women teams, the community as I read but their spending overshadowed everything. They didn't start spending with Guardiola, they started with Mancini, then Pellegrini and now Guardiola. Is more about the club than the coach, that declare other principles in the path and I agree with the critics about his inconsistency in this point.

Then we have the market. It is been crazier and crazier every year and is going to be even crazier in the future. City is a club with money and everyone knows about that and act accordingly. They have money, well I want some of that. The player cost 35 let's charge 65 and is little what they can do about it. It happened to Tottenham when they sold Bale, but they got lucky with a coach who uses what he has at their academy. The defence of City was awful and they had to rebuild all the last line and what should cost them x ended in City paying 3 times that. Who is the responsible for this is Beguiristain and the Sheikh who wants all the cards in his pocket, like Florentino in Spain.

Guardiola is guilty of inconsistency, I think we all agree on that. However, doubt about his knowledge and skills is a bit harsh. One of his biggest assets is that he can improve players, he worked with some of the better players, some at an early stage of their lives and make them even better, Messi, Xavi, Busquets, Iniesta, Sterling, Kimmich, Boateng, Lahm KDB, Sane and Alexis (yes, great part of his polyfunctionality and understanding of the game is thanks to Guardiola, Alexis recognized that, later he received other teachings from Vilanova, Sampaoli, Wenger), all will mention Eto'o or Ibrahimovic, that is not entirely Guardiola's, but shows one of his flaws, that he needs player to fully surrender themselves to him and his teachings, that is one of the reasons he prefers younger players. Mourinho is much more flexible and can adapt better to anything he has. Their understanding of the game is far above of most of the other coaches, with maybe the exceptions of Ancelotti and Heynckes, but they have another style.
 
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They'd find a way around it.
Just as FFP1 has made no difference, neither will FFP2.

You see, if you decide to reduce the spending of clubs, this reduces the overall wealth in football, which is not want the footballing powers want.
What they want is to see huge sums of money involved. Heavy investment in football. Big footballing stars being paid big bucks.
This in turn will attract more people to football, as they will soon hear about footballers getting paid big money and inquisitive to see what all the fuss is about.

The governing bodies certainly don't want to see clubs go into administration due to risky spending, but at the same time, they do want to encourage spending.
They may well but the problem with FFP1 was clubs owned by countries can make up sponsorship deals and pay anything they want.

The hope with FFP2 is you can earn what you want and even spend what you want BUT your sales better be within a £100m of your buys. So PSG couldn't have done what they've done, neither could City.

They may find a loophole but if the authorities stick to this tightly, it could work...... but hoping UEFA/FIFA to do the right thing is like hoping Jones/Smalling (Dumb and Dumber) will be a good CH partnership.