gooDevil
Worst scout ever
Phil Jones will become the English Sergio Busquets, United will play a back 3 with Phil as sweeper.
Or he might be the next Wes Brown... but with a better shot at becoming first choice at either CB or RB.I wonder how much we'll see of Jones in mf next season, and whether his competency in the position will improve to the point he becomes a good option in big games.
I do worry Jones will become the new OShea.
What do you see in Jones that makes him a player in the Busquets-mold? He currently has none of the attributes needed for that except a decent close control of the ball, and even that he would need to improve greatly to be likened to Busquets who is excellent under pressure.Phil Jones will become the English Sergio Busquets, United will play a back 3 with Phil as sweeper.
I find it quite strange as well. He's only 20 and his form went down towards the end of the season. I know a lot of people on here weren't happy with the fact that he was starting ahead of Rafael.Is anyone else bemused by the widespread disdain there is for Jones? I scanned the various fan forums after the England squad was announced and he was getting a lot of abuse. City fans even have a song mocking us for signings him. He's had a few iffy performances of late, but he's clearly the most talented English player in his age group after Wilshere. It's very odd.
Bizarre comparison, he has none of the Busquests attributes.Phil Jones will become the English Sergio Busquets, United will play a back 3 with Phil as sweeper.
It's this sort of stuff I don't buy. Being a positionally suspect CB who is decent on the ball doesn't mean you will be a good defensive mid. People say it about Jones, and they've said it about Luiz too. I just don't get it. If you're a positionally suspect defender, a defensive mid role is the one place you should be. Positional sense there is arguably more important than it is at centre back.Phil Jones will become the English Sergio Busquets, United will play a back 3 with Phil as sweeper.
Jones and Smalling. Evans has proven this season that he can go on to be a good defender, but I still expect Jones and Smalling to be much better defenders than him if they reach the level they're expected to.So in 3 or 4 years time, assuming no more comings and goings in defense and reasonably predictable player development, who will be the defensive pairing? Jones and Smalling or Evans and Smalling?
Nice to have such strong options.
Fletcher wouldn't be good enough defensively to play CB but that doesn't mean he's not a fine defensive midfielder.It's this sort of stuff I don't buy. Being a positionally suspect CB who is decent on the ball doesn't mean you will be a good defensive mid. People say it about Jones, and they've said it about Luiz too. I just don't get it. If you're a positionally suspect defender, a defensive mid role is the one place you should be. Positional sense there is arguably more important than it is at centre back.
Well it does because he's not a defensive midfielder.Fletcher wouldn't be good enough defensively to play CB but that doesn't mean he's not a fine defensive midfielder.
Perhaps a better comparison to what I'm imaging for him would be Javi Martinez, who plays as a center back but dribbles the ball out into midfield to join the attack when they have the ball.
Evans is way to good for Everton, I think you're underrating himI hope so. Evans will be a fantastic deputy to have. Though probably in that case we'll end up selling him to Everton or Sunderland in a few years when we have more promising youth emerging.
Deepest midfielder, most defensive minded midfielder, whatever you want to call it. When we played a 3 man midfield when Fletcher was at his best I don't think it's wrong to say he played a defensive midfield role. I have to use some term to differentiate the role, I'd gladly hear a better way to denote it.Well it does because he's not a defensive midfielder.
The difference though is that Fletcher's good enough on the ball to play as a defensive mid. Jones, while decent on the ball, isn't as good as people like to say he is technically. He will be a lot better than Fletcher defensively, but I doubt he'll ever be a good enough player on the ball to regularly play on our midfield. People say he has good ability with the ball at his feet, but he really isn't brilliant. Better than the average defender with it, yes, but the difference between him and most players is that he just runs with it a lot more.Fletcher wouldn't be good enough defensively to play CB but that doesn't mean he's not a fine defensive midfielder.
Perhaps a better comparison to what I'm imaging for him would be Javi Martinez, who plays as a center back but dribbles the ball out into midfield to join the attack when they have the ball.
Like Wes "Best Defender in England" Brown. Who went to Sunderland.Evans is way to good for Everton, I think you're underrating him
Here. SAF seems to think he's world class.
QFT.Simon, wes could have been one of the top defenders in england and I'll say for a period of time was. Injuries changed all that though
He is 20 years old, remember Fletcher when he was that age? Jones is a far better player than when Fletch was 20. Most people had wrote Fletcher off and would never have predicted that he developed into the player he is today, which is credit to him.The difference though is that Fletcher's good enough on the ball to play as a defensive mid. Jones, while decent on the ball, isn't as good as people like to say he is technically. He will be a lot better than Fletcher defensively, but I doubt he'll ever be a good enough player on the ball to regularly play on our midfield. People say he has good ability with the ball at his feet, but he really isn't brilliant. Better than the average defender with it, yes, but the difference between him and most players is that he just runs with it a lot more.
Evans is already an excellent defender, and was a better centre back than Jones at Jones' age. Jones has a hell of a task getting in ahead of him, in my opinion. It's not inconceivable that he'll improve considerably, but then you could say the same thing about Evans also.Jones and Smalling. Evans has proven this season that he can go on to be a good defender, but I still expect Jones and Smalling to be much better defenders than him if they reach the level they're expected to.
I think the defence was one of the only positives to come out of that tournament for England due to Pearce's completely ridiculous management. Smalling, Jones and Walker were all great. Bertrand was decent.Anyone who watched Jones and Smalling play as a partnership at the Under 21 championships could not have failed to see how potentially good those 2 will be as center backs in the future.
It's a hex I tell yaI think the defence was one of the only positives to come out of that tournament for England due to Pearce's completely ridiculous management. Smalling, Jones and Walker were all great. Bertrand was decent.
Welbeck was as good as he could've been and Sturridge was alright (selfish as feck, though), but the midfield was a joke. Henderson, Cleverley on the right of midfield, Sinclair and fecking Mancienne...what the feck are these England managers on?
I can see him being a future captain stillIm going to stick my neck out and say that Evans will be ahead Jones in the pecking order for CB in the foreseeable future. Jones will probably have to do with an O'Shea role in the squad. Nothing wrong with that at all, mind.
Exactly. People who don't know about their pairing and want some insight. Go and watch them in the Euro21's from the start of this season.Anyone who watched Jones and Smalling play as a partnership at the Under 21 championships could not have failed to see how potentially good those 2 will be as center backs in the future.
Definitely. The comparison to O'Shea is no more than they can both play a few positions, Jones is far more talented. It's not a great comparison to be honest.I can see him being a future captain still
That is assuming that suspect in cb would make you suspect positionally in dm role which is not the case.It's this sort of stuff I don't buy. Being a positionally suspect CB who is decent on the ball doesn't mean you will be a good defensive mid. People say it about Jones, and they've said it about Luiz too. I just don't get it. If you're a positionally suspect defender, a defensive mid role is the one place you should be. Positional sense there is arguably more important than it is at centre back.
This is basically what I feel. Evans came right back to form in the last half of last season and looks like a long term fit in the position. Smalling is also a definite first-choice once Ferdinand and Vidic are out to pasture. Jones is more versatile and will fill in for injuries and in other positions too.Im going to stick my neck out and say that Evans will be ahead Jones in the pecking order for CB in the foreseeable future. Jones will probably have to do with an O'Shea role in the squad. Nothing wrong with that at all, mind.
I do. He's never been a defensive midfielder.
I'm mostly thinking about our 2008-9 season, when Wenger accused Fletcher of destroying football with his negative tactics [read excellent tackling and pressing]. My recollection is that Carrick was asked to go forward more often and Fletcher was the one who chased down stray runner, like the tackle on Fabergas that caused him to miss the CL final that season. Do most of you agree with Ash that Carrick was playing deeper during that time?Fletcher never played deepest of a 3, well he has but not when we've had our best midfield 3 over the last few years which was carrick fletcher and ando. Carrick was the holder, fletcher was box to box and ando was the attacker.
I don't think jones problem is technical, although he clearly hasn't shown the on the ball ability of our other midfielders, but tactical. To play fletchers role in the 3 takes more than energy, you need a lot of tactical awareness, to know when to press, how to press and when to break forward etc. when jones has played there for us or England he just ends up in attacking midfield because he doesn't know what he's doing.
Similarly carricks role in a 3 is all about tactical awareness especially of like him you're an interceptor as opposed to a tackler.
I think jones could grow in to those roles, part of then is experience but having not trained there it's tough and also he'd be on the ball a lot more then he's used to. His energy and power could be good then though.