PL Title Race

kaiser1

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Our next game is at Stamford Bridge. Could rule either Chelsea or us out of the title race at that point.

I just don't see where City will drop the points from here though. Chelsea and Liverpool will drop more so City would need to nose dive from here.
If City wins their next 3 games which is vs Brentford, vs Arsenal and vs Chelsea then I will say its over.
Vs Arsenal is important because it puts pressure on Liverpool vs Chelsea where at least one side drop point, best case for City a draw between Pool and Chelsea
Next game vs Chelsea at Etihad. If they win that, they could be potentially 12-15points ahead
 

bond19821982

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I dont care about City at all. They can win as many titles as they want but I just don't have a feeling or interest in what they do and how they perform.

I hate Liverpool with a passion but I still watch them because I know there is a possibility that they will drop points. Same as Chelsea as well. Been a regular watcher of all teams in EPL bar City.
 

kaiser1

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Not that an attack is a lineup, but let's do a comparison. Silva is not a midfielder. Torres has left (and was injured for a good amount of this season), so City have 5 attackers. Let's look at a form/depth/quality comparison this season:

Salah-Mane-Jota-Firmino-Origi: 51 G/A contributions

Mahrez-Sterling-Foden-Jesus-Grealish: 37 G/A contributions

Yes, City can pick 3 forwards from that group of 5 without a significant drop in quality, but that's because none of them are exactly pulling up trees this season (go into the Grealish thread to see what many think of his season so far). I doubt any Liverpool fan (sentiment aside) would swap these lineups.

For SnG, let's look at midfield too.

Fabinho-Thiago-Henderson-Ox-Milner-Keita

Silva-Rodri-Gundogan-KDB-Fernandinho

Here, the opposite is true. City have more top quality, but Liverpool have more depth here by far. KDB has been average this season (being kind) and Fernandinho's legs have gone.

The poster you quoted is correct. Contrary to popular (incorrect) opinion, City certainly cannot field 2 world class players in each position, they don't have 2 teams capable of winning the league or finishing top 4 (field Fernandinho at DM and see how well that works out for you), and they certainly have their depth exaggerated.
City depth is one of the biggest myth in football I've heard of.
You are right. This is City's 2 teams vs Chelsea and Man Utds. I think only Liverpool has a legit depth complaints vs City

DDG
Dalot Telles Maguire Lindelof
Mctominay Fred Bruno
Sancho Ronaldo Greenwood

Henderson
Bissaka Bailly Varane Shaw
Matic Pogba VdB
Martial Cavani Rashford

extras Mata Lingard
===============================================
Ederson
Walker Dias Laporte zinchenko
Rodri KDB Gundogan
Mahrez Palmer Grealish

Steffen
Cancelo Stones Ake Mendy(In jail)
Fernadinho Bernado Foden
Sterling Jesus Ferran(Sold)

====================

Mendy
Reece Silva Rudiger Chilwell
Kante Jorginho Mount
Ziyech--Lukaku--Werner

Kepa
Azpi Christensen Chalobah Alonso
Kovacic RLC Barkley
-Pulisic--Harvetz--CHO

Saul

I'm probably missing some players
 
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SER19

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But it was ok when Liverpool dominated then utd were buying all the best talent to dominate? Don't blame the great sheikh for your problems, american owners just want profit and will only invest what they have to. Besides, we really don't care.

Such false equivalences :lol: 'really don't care' but can't help weighing in with mental gymnastics. Enjoy it but for what it is, a fake club lifting increasingly worthless trophies in an increasingly soulless sport that city have been among the chiefs in destroying.
 

kaiser1

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Don't think people realise how much of a difference Pep makes. Once he leaves, and assuming that:

a) we never rehire Pep
and
b) we never hire Klopp

We're likely never hitting these levels again. Pep's one of a kind. We'll hire other great managers but none who can do what he does so consistently, who know how to do things like manage the mid-season slump, keep the dressing room happy even when big names are on the bench or break down a 10-man defence. Once Pep's gone I reckon we'll return to the title every three years or so that we were managing before him. There won't be another at his level.
Pep is probably the best league manager that ever existed, He has pushed the EPL to a level where 90 points that used to be rare are like the standard if you want to win. Losses like Liverpool vs Leicester are now disasters not just "not our day" we will catch up 10yrs ago
 

giorno

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Been saying this since before the season started. There is no title race. There is only City :(
 

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Hate to say it, but City at a canter and this will be their year for winning the CL
 

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Boooo, boring race. A lot can still happen, but it's very unlikely city will blow it from this position. Pep has really taken the league by storm and in spite of all the money he has spent, you have to give him credit. They win the league most of the time because they go on these crazy winning runs that few teams can. I hope both he and Klopp feck off soon. I was really hoping Chelsea will sustain a challenge but deep down, I knew we will drop off. I'll be happy with our season if we hang on to third and do decently in the cups and hopefully win one
 

Paul_Scholes18

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City normally do well over christmas. It was the same last year. They rotate so players stay more fresh.

Peps ability to rotate so much and still keep the level up is impressive. You think a nailed 11 would play more as a unit, but City always looked drilled as a team.

Maybe they suffer in CL since peak level with one starting 11 might be hard to reach when they play the very best.
 

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Peps ability to rotate so much and still keep the level up is impressive. You think a nailed 11 would play more as a unit, but City always looked drilled as a team.
This should the benchmark, really. Other teams seem to completely fall apart sometimes when they have one of their top players missing. They can keep their standard up even with injuries.

And yes, they have good squad depth, but a lot of their reserves look a lot better because of the system they play.
 

giorno

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When it comes down to it, the difference is city's depth. City have 15 starting quality players for 10 spots. Plus zinchenko who is a solid backup player

Nobody else comes close. Nobody else has so many world class players, nobody else relies so little on any one player on any given day. And so nobody else can compete over 38 games. In England at least. Bayern Munich probably could, they're so ridiculously good even if they miss Lewandowski that just puts them at city's level :lol:

I think liverpool at their best are still better than city, but for them it's much much harder to sustain that level because they don't have the depth & need Salah, TAA and VVD to be superhuman in every game. If Salah has an off game liverpool suffer. If DeBruyne has on off day, it doesn't matter 'cause Foden or Mahrez or Sterling or whatever will step up instead...
 

marktan

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As I mentioned I get Liverpool attacking depth, but what about United and Chelsea who's attacking depth more or less match City, yet the results are not exactly the same?

Net spend needs context here, its a fact that Pep has a FAR bigger financial advantage, however I feel people here act like Pool lose a star player every year or something. Outside of Coutinho Pool haven't lost a key player under Klopp, credit to Pool sporting director who has flipped dead weights to bring in funds to strength the team, which in fact means Klopp has been strengthening his team every season. He bought in Thiago and Jota last summer and then bought Konate this summer, before that Allison, Fabinho, Shaqiri, Salah, Van Dijk, Keita, Chamberlain, Robertson were exactly has he not strength his team? I'll tell you one thing if Klopp/Pool stop buying players like Thiago/Chamberlain who have had deep injury issues before there moves it would probably help, Konate is another to look out for, so far not an issue, but he's missed 46 games in 2 years due to injury, before his move.
Chelsea and United are of course different, it's a more interesting comparison as they spend similarly to City, but they've had various issues, not least of all poor managers and I'm United's case a lot of poor singings. Tuchel has been there what, less than a year? Even Klopp and Pep took a while to get going. That said of course credit does go to Pep for the way City play week in week out.

But I think you'd be hard stretched to argue United's first XI is close to City's. Chelsea's does come close but they've had like 10 absentees over the last couple of games including most of their strike force, hence the dropped points. I think only Chelsea's first XI and Liverpool's first XI can keep pace with City, Chelsea have sufficient depth to do it over a season but Liverpool don't.

On Liverpool's spending - the past two summers come out to £40m spending each. Hardly anything amazing. City in comparison spent £100m on Grealish this summer, and about £140m on Ruben Dias, Ake, Torres and a couple of others (net spend comes to £90m). Hardly an equitable comparison. As ive said the net spend difference in 4 years is about £400m - that's 8 extra £50m players for the squad, and it shows.

Again I'm not saying it's the only reason City win, it's not, but it does help them. SAF used to do the same thing. In 2007 he signed Tevez, Nani, Anderson and Hargreaves. I doubt anyone else came close to spending as much that summer as we did.
 
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kaiser1

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When it comes down to it, the difference is city's depth. City have 15 starting quality players for 10 spots. Plus zinchenko who is a solid backup player

Nobody else comes close. Nobody else has so many world class players, nobody else relies so little on any one player on any given day. And so nobody else can compete over 38 games. In England at least. Bayern Munich probably could, they're so ridiculously good even if they miss Lewandowski that just puts them at city's level :lol:

I think liverpool at their best are still better than city, but for them it's much much harder to sustain that level because they don't have the depth & need Salah, TAA and VVD to be superhuman in every game. If Salah has an off game liverpool suffer. If DeBruyne has on off day, it doesn't matter 'cause Foden or Mahrez or Sterling or whatever will step up instead...
I think Chelsea and United come close to the quality of City's 15 players. You can make a list and you will see for yourself. With better coaching and handling of course I don't see why not
 

fen4e

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Such false equivalences :lol: 'really don't care' but can't help weighing in with mental gymnastics. Enjoy it but for what it is, a fake club lifting increasingly worthless trophies in an increasingly soulless sport that city have been among the chiefs in destroying.
Football has been in a steady decline for a while, unfortunately.

What do you think needs to happen for the sport to return to what it used to be ?

I mean, even the World Cups and Euros have been a tough watch.

Maybe that's just me, though.
 

DoneDaDa

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When it comes down to it, the difference is city's depth. City have 15 starting quality players for 10 spots. Plus zinchenko who is a solid backup player

Nobody else comes close. Nobody else has so many world class players, nobody else relies so little on any one player on any given day. And so nobody else can compete over 38 games. In England at least. Bayern Munich probably could, they're so ridiculously good even if they miss Lewandowski that just puts them at city's level :lol:

I think liverpool at their best are still better than city, but for them it's much much harder to sustain that level because they don't have the depth & need Salah, TAA and VVD to be superhuman in every game. If Salah has an off game liverpool suffer. If DeBruyne has on off day, it doesn't matter 'cause Foden or Mahrez or Sterling or whatever will step up instead...
Of course they do. United & Chelsea can match they're depth easily, Foden/Jesus aren't much different from Werner/Hakim/Pulisic or Greenwod/Sancho/Martial, its just Foden and Jesus are performing better, hence why they're rated higher, but based off quality itself, no there isn't a difference. It's the same with Ake/Stones, they're price tag was really high, but we all know they weren't worth that cost, but you think those 2 would improve Pool/Chelsea/United? You gave Matip and Gomez to Pep at City you think City still wouldn't dominate?

Lets compare misfield

United: Pogba, Bruno, van Beek, Fred, McTominay, Matic
Chelsea: Jorginho, Kante, Kovacic, Mount, Pulisic (???), Kai (???), Saul
City: KdB, B.Silva, Gundo, Rodri, Fernandinho

Again base off QUALITY, not much of a difference, the only thing is Pep has all his players performing at a high level, were as the other 2 clubs aren't its not a question of depth here its a question of performance.
 

giorno

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I think Chelsea and United come close to the quality of City's 15 players. You can make a list and you will see for yourself. With better coaching and handling of course I don't see why not
United have serious holes in defence and midfield. Chelsea are similar to city in that they too have like 15-16 starters, but the forwards are of worse quality than city's for the most part
Of course they do. United & Chelsea can match they're depth easily
United don't on the basis that they start Fred and McTominay, Maguire and Wan Bissaka...those are serious weaknesses at the level we're talking about

Foden/Jesus aren't much different from Werner/Hakim/Pulisic or
They are actually. They're a level above

but based off quality itself, no there isn't a difference.
How would you judge quality if not performance? :confused:

It's the same with Ake/Stones, they're price tag was really high, but we all know they weren't worth that cost, but you think those 2 would improve Pool/Chelsea/United? You gave Matip and Gomez to Pep at City you think City still wouldn't dominate?
Stones would improve United, yeah. Chelsea and Liverpool are also really strong at CB. Matip and a Gomez are great CBs too

Lets compare misfield
United: Pogba, Bruno, van Beek, Fred, McTominay, Matic
Chelsea: Jorginho, Kante, Kovacic, Mount, Pulisic (???), Kai (???), Saul
City: KdB, B.Silva, Gundo, Rodri, Fernandinho
Yeah, there is a serious difference with United here. Not so with chelsea, but there the difference is in the forwards
 

kaiser1

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United have serious holes in defence and midfield. Chelsea are similar to city in that they too have like 15-16 starters, but the forwards are of worse quality than city's for the most part
Where do you see the significant advantages for City here minus the influence of the coach, tactics and trust

Defence
City - Cancelo, Walker Zinchenko Ake Dias Laporte Stones
United - AWB Dalot Shaw, Telles, Maguire Lindelof, Bailly, Varane
Chelsea - Reece, Azpi, Silva, Christensen, Chalobah, Rudiger Chilwell, Alonso

Midfield
City - Rodri, Fernandinho KdB, Bernardo Gundogan
United - Matic, Fred, McTominay, VdBeek, Pogba, Fernandes, Mata
Chelsea - Kante Jorginho RLC, Kovacic, Mount, Barkley

Attack
City Sterling Mahrez Jesus Grealish Palmer
United - Sancho Martial, Rashford Ronaldo Cavani Greenwood
Chelsea - Lukaku Kai, Werner Pulisic Ziyech, CHO
 

giorno

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Where do you see the significant advantages for City here minus the influence of the coach, tactics and trust

Defence
City - Cancelo, Walker Zinchenko Ake Dias Laporte Stones
United - AWB Dalot Shaw, Telles, Maguire Lindelof, Bailly, Varane
Chelsea - Reece, Azpi, Silva, Christensen, Chalobah, Rudiger Chilwell, Alonso

Midfield
City - Rodri, Fernandinho KdB, Bernardo Gundogan
United - Matic, Fred, McTominay, VdBeek, Pogba, Fernandes, Mata
Chelsea - Kante Jorginho RLC, Kovacic, Mount, Barkley

Attack
City Sterling Mahrez Jesus Grealish Palmer
United - Sancho Martial, Rashford Ronaldo Cavani Greenwood
Chelsea - Lukaku Kai, Werner Pulisic Ziyech, CHO
Bolded. Players who play a lot and are either not as good as city's or outright weak points
 

kaiser1

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Bolded. Players who play a lot and are either not as good as city's or outright weak points
I don't think Ake Stones and Zinchenko in isolation from the Pep system are any better than Lindelof Bailly, AWB and Dalot
Matic can do what Fernandinho does, Fred was chased hard by Pep before United won the race
Kai Werner Pulisic Ziyech CHO are not worse than Grealish, Foden, Jesus, Sterling. Jesus and Sterling used to be laughed at in many forums
 
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Sandikan

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I don't think Ake Stones and Zinchenko in isolation from the Pep system are not worse than Lindelof Bailly, AWB and Dalot
This is a difficult sentence to read.

You DON'T THINK, they are NOT WORSE?

I think you mean those 2 players aren't any better than the players you then list?
 

kaiser1

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This is a difficult sentence to read.

You DON'T THINK, they are NOT WORSE?

I think you mean those 2 players aren't any better than the players you then list?
I mean those Citeh players listed are not better than Lindelof Bailly AWB Telles
 

SER19

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Football has been in a steady decline for a while, unfortunately.

What do you think needs to happen for the sport to return to what it used to be ?

I mean, even the World Cups and Euros have been a tough watch.

Maybe that's just me, though.
I don't think it ever will to be honest but some shape of financial and transfer control, eg max 3 in 3 out per year.

It gets muddied too easily just because im a united fan, but forget United exist, and it simply isn't a sport if a tiny, meaningless club can dominate a 140 year old league within 10 years of a criminal foreign government buying them as a propaganda tool.

It's simply insane that this needs to be said and that grown men prefer to make every excuse in the book than acknowledge it.
 

charlenefan

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So much for the 3 horse title race eh, City about to go 8 clear and we're not even out of December yet
 

B. Munich

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Man City 8 points clear vs Bayern's 9 points. Not a big difference. Oh there is one. At least Bayern is a proper football club and not the toy of some corrupt oil caliphate.
 

marktan

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I propose we move City, Bayern and PSG into their own super league. Would make their 3 respective leagues infinitely more interesting.
 
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Klopper76

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I propose we move City, Bayern and PSG into their own super leagues. Would make their 3 respective leagues infinitely more interesting.
I think this is a great idea. Chelsea are decent enough to have breaks and let others have a go so they can stay. City can come back when Guardiola is no longer their manager.
 

Statue of Limitations

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PL Title Procession.

Nobody is getting near them.
Just glad Pool have turned to shit, would rather them and Chelsea join us in a fight for Top 4.
 

Klopper76

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That’s Christmas and Corona few weeks so about 11 games!
Even now I’m being generous. The title race was over weeks ago
Nah pre-Tottenham we were well in it. We'd won 5 or 6 in a row before that. The last two league games have killed us and City keep on winning.
 

Wolf1992

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I propose we move City, Bayern and PSG into their own super league. Would make their 3 respective leagues infinitely more interesting.
Poch's PSG is not on City and Bayern level, they get outplayed by relegation sides in Ligue 1, and end up getting bailed out by Mbappé.

They certainly don't have a gameplan other than let individual talent win the game, they are far from dominating games like City and Bayern do.
 

dove

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Premier League as exciting as Bundesliga for the past few years. City are just too good.
 

VivaRonaldo85

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I can’t understand why this City team aren’t winning the CL too.The only player I think they could upgrade on is Jesus but they have Sterling and Mahrez sat watching the entire game on the bench tonight. That strength in depth is silly at any time let alone in the midst of this omicron virus.
 

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As a Bayern fan i enjoy is winning but even i preferred the competition would be more consistent. So the league would not be decided that early.

Unfortunately, the EPL hasn't been much better when it comes to close seasons. The last was the 2018/19 season i think. Actually the same year when Bundesliga was also decided on the last day.
 

Wolf1992

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I can’t understand why this City team aren’t winning the CL too.The only player I think they could upgrade on is Jesus but they have Sterling and Mahrez sat watching the entire game on the bench tonight. That strength in depth is silly at any time let alone in the midst of this omicron virus.
CL knock outs are tricky, i remember Pep's City getting outplayed by Lyon (who was 11th in Ligue 1) and Monaco(Ligue 1 winners) away.

I guess the surprise factor makes it different than league games.
 

B. Munich

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I can’t understand why this City team aren’t winning the CL too.The only player I think they could upgrade on is Jesus but they have Sterling and Mahrez sat watching the entire game on the bench tonight. That strength in depth is silly at any time let alone in the midst of this omicron virus.
Maybe the same reason why Bayern didn't win under Guardiola:

If you win the league too early you can't keep the focus and intensity up. A few prevent less and it will cost you against the top teams.

Guardiola overthinking in the big games. This is deadly in know out matches or finals. In the league it doesn't matter much if it happens a couple of times but you win all the other games.
 

Ayoba

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Farmers league participants psg and Bayern welcome city. Congrats on winning your respective domestic leagues in December.
 

fen4e

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Why would things change once Pep's gone?
Surely they'd go after another top notch manager, plus their squad is way too good as it is and their bankroll is unlimited?