Can people stop saying they have? Whatever is going wrong with us, it's not for a lack of effort, even if that effort is misdirected, the players are trying and playing for the manager.
Players have clearly not downed tools.
- Thread starter Fortitude
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The effort is there but the quality is lacking. A lot of them just aren't technically or physically good enough
Agreed. They're fighting for the manager, they want to turn things around. There are other reasons why we're not being able to convert this effort into results, but a lack of effort is not one of them.
It does my head in, it's the laziest, most overused piece of rubbish I see on here - and that's saying something.
Yeah, it's bollocks.
When you're flatlining on confidence and you suffer a setback, heads drop.
When you're flatlining on confidence and you suffer a setback, heads drop.
Some of them have clearly begun to lose faith with the coach, that’s obvious and natural.
We all know this process, we know it well, we’ve seen it time and time again.
He won’t be here next season.
We know it, and the players know it.
Whether they’ve wilfully ‘downed tools’ or just lost faith, it doesn’t really matter. The process has clearly begun and is very unlikely to reverse itself.
We all know this process, we know it well, we’ve seen it time and time again.
He won’t be here next season.
We know it, and the players know it.
Whether they’ve wilfully ‘downed tools’ or just lost faith, it doesn’t really matter. The process has clearly begun and is very unlikely to reverse itself.
Exactly I posted this during the week, it was a nonsensical argument to deflect blame from the manager. The players have demonstrated a good attitude in relation to being absolutely tactically outdone in most games this season. The journalist leaking news from supposed sources is also coming across as nonsense. It's not adding up from what we are seeing on the pitch.
They obviously haven't - the issue though seems to be how much confidence they have in what the team is trying to do.
They're honest boys trying as much as they can, but that lack of confidence in our setup will mean you're more hesitant, you won't have the extra boost that success gives you (similar to how a team's performance lifts after a goal), and it's easier for your head to drop
They're honest boys trying as much as they can, but that lack of confidence in our setup will mean you're more hesitant, you won't have the extra boost that success gives you (similar to how a team's performance lifts after a goal), and it's easier for your head to drop
Maybe Ten Hag apologized.
I think they're simply poor as is our entire coaching setup. I never believe in top pros downing the tools, you cannot be at 100% all the time
Man you guys never learn 
You’re making the mistake of taking the saying a bit too literally. Obviously nobody goes out there with intention of not giving a feck and not doing their best: That usually reveals itself after a setback (conceding a goal). A fair few times this season you will have noticed we’ve been doing okay but then concede a goal and then the whole performance collapses. That in itself is ‘downing tools’. This doesn’t mean we’re going to go out every single game and lose 5-0.
Yeah I don't think they have at all, this is just our level currently (aka not very good)
Ye they’re definitely trying for the manager. Halve the squad just isn’t good enough. We’ve probably got the worse squad in the top 5.
It's not always about the players wanting the manager out, it's about the manager failing to influence the players specially when their confidence is down. One of the recurring themes with United in recent years is the complete mental collapse when things go wrong. Recently it felt that we're heading in that direction again. If he can change things around then great.
At the 80 min mark I thought they were throwing the manager under the bus but then they picked up.
They didn’t have any tools to start with
They are fighting for the manager. They got paid today for not giving up. Ugly wins are beautiful imo.
We have defenders that have been starting for us this last few months who’d struggle to get games for teams toward the bottom of the table in Reguilon and Evans - and we have no attacking players outside of Rashford who would start for other teams in the top 8. You don’t have to be a football Einstein to work out why we’re struggling.
They look void of confidence and clueless.
They barely have the tools to down, which is more of a problem.
Rashford wasn't on the pitch.
Agreed. I question the intelligence of those people when they say that as soon as results start to go south. It’s like their brain can’t comprehend anything else. It’s laughable.
It's such a lazy trope and something United and the media always use to mask poor form. Even this Fulham game, let's look at it objectively.
a. Hojlund hardly got any chances. He made a lot of runs and clearly worked hard, which is why the turnovers from Fulham were high. Yet he wasn't provided with any opportunities. Yet the media will bring up the stupid stat about him not scoring any goals. You can't score goals if your team can't find you. We didn't sign him to be shooting from outside the box either.
b. Today we were much better in midfield. The midfield line was higher but also more compact. That's not what we've been doing in other games. Yet despite this, the minute one of our midfielders lost the ball, it was so easy to attack us. I watch other teams, it should never be that easy. That's tactical.
c. Our wing play is poor. There is a lack of support to both Wingers and full backs. Just very isolated. Our general play revolves around getting the ball out wide. Yet when out wide, we don't do anything with it. It just becomes very static.
Some of it is lack of quality due to injuries, but a lot of it is tactical. Opposition players are quicker to balls than us, not because they are fitter, but because they are in better positions to do so. You can't watch Bruno, Hojlund, Garnacho and Mount harrying around the pitch and think its lack of effort.
a. Hojlund hardly got any chances. He made a lot of runs and clearly worked hard, which is why the turnovers from Fulham were high. Yet he wasn't provided with any opportunities. Yet the media will bring up the stupid stat about him not scoring any goals. You can't score goals if your team can't find you. We didn't sign him to be shooting from outside the box either.
b. Today we were much better in midfield. The midfield line was higher but also more compact. That's not what we've been doing in other games. Yet despite this, the minute one of our midfielders lost the ball, it was so easy to attack us. I watch other teams, it should never be that easy. That's tactical.
c. Our wing play is poor. There is a lack of support to both Wingers and full backs. Just very isolated. Our general play revolves around getting the ball out wide. Yet when out wide, we don't do anything with it. It just becomes very static.
Some of it is lack of quality due to injuries, but a lot of it is tactical. Opposition players are quicker to balls than us, not because they are fitter, but because they are in better positions to do so. You can't watch Bruno, Hojlund, Garnacho and Mount harrying around the pitch and think its lack of effort.
That really is a statement!
The sense of urgency only surfaced in the last 10 minutes of the match. I’d like to know what the explanation for that might be.
They're moreso just shite.
They haven’t downed tools but they are hardly running themselves into the ground either. We’re passive in every game, today we were fortunate to face someone equally as passive and devoid of quality.
Agree. You’d think anyone who actually watched that City game would find it very hard to suggest that this group of players are genuinely giving everything and all have 100% belief in the manager.
Right, but by the same token, many are technically good enough and have proven so in previous seasons. Bruno and Rashford are the two standouts that are a shadow of their former selves.
It’s so obvious but a lot of people will tell you that you are stupid not to see they are lazy bustards. Whenever I said they gave 100%, I was bashed here. They just simply equal shit team performance to lack of effort from players.
Normally you’d expect a reaction from a team after that City game, we still haven’t seen one. A better team or even one with some intensity would have brushed us aside today.
For me it's up there with "no system/style", another tired trope used by folks who are understandably angry, but without really understanding what they're seeing.
If you're being coached with weak instruction, or left to figure things out yourself, some are going to be on island because they *need* instruction and coaching and are, quite frankly, incapable of being these cultured thinkers who can digest and process a game in real time. Honestly, sometimes it's giving the players too much respect to have them go out there and freestyle; that's for the brilliant, like when Real Madrid were doing their thing and winning CL's with moments of unquestionable, individual brilliance whilst having that free rein to express themselves as they saw fit.
I'm not knocking players for not being skilled free-thinkers, either. Some players are brilliant under instruction and absolutely dogged once given their brief - I'll take that all day. A good example would be McTominay. His best actual form and performances in our shirt was in the McFred partnership when his one and only job was to sweep up behind Fred and then give the most simple pass to another red shirt. He didn't have to think about spatials or positioning, or covering or tasking himself with expansive passing and he absolutely thrived just being Fred's water carrier. It can seem undignified, but it extracted all of his energy and reduced aimless or clueless actions to naught. He wasn't trying any more or less, but his energy was very easy to harness and be of value in that simple role. Make McTominay a freer thinking midfielder, and the accusations of ball-watching and not covering bodies etc. etc. come thick and fast. He's still the same guy, and he isn't trying any more or less.
I think our squad is devoid of confidence and a lot of them can't navigate through torrid times; if your confidence is on the floor you're going to be stuttery and apprehensive, which compounds the misery. You've highlighted this in your post as downing tools, but I'd more say that's a collective who don't know what to do with themselves where downing tools is purposely putting half-arsed effort into everything you're doing, and even purposely passing the buck because why not, who cares? I don't think our players phone it in in this manner; they're just not very good, but they're trying.
Dalot is another good example, I think. He is wildly erratic from game to game, but he's not trying any more or less, it's just his level of ability.
Think that's a bit too black and white. There have been many instances where we've seen players not pelting back to help their teammates. Today's match was probably the most hard fought we've seen this season. The players have also been taking flak from pundits and supporters with many questioning them, as well as fellow managers (Rooney).
Let's hope they sustain this work rate.
Let's hope they sustain this work rate.
I think that's apt, tbh. On both counts. But it's not for a lack of trying, which is the accusation being levelled to explain away what's going on.
The "downed tools" thing has always been such a lazy phrase for shit performances. I don't know if they're fighting for the manager or just personal pride, but they haven't stopped working. The problems with the performances this season has been down to what goes down on the training pitch, and the tactical set up of the team.
Today was another fecking dire performance. Enjoy the win, but there's absolutely no corner turned.
Today was another fecking dire performance. Enjoy the win, but there's absolutely no corner turned.
How many players in the starting 11 would you have expected to be starting at the beginning of the season? Onana, AWB/Dalot, Bruno, Antony and Hojlund. That’s it. We have been ravaged by injuries to key players who would be starting the majority of our games. It’s going to take time but I think ten Hag will get us out of this mess, but patience is not something many of our supporters have these days.
Running around aimlessly is not something you're ever going to see. Give them an actual system to run in, or a planned directive in collective pressing, and then assess if they're not willing to run themselves into the ground. It's only mad men like Robbie Savage or Genaro Gattuso who run around, by themselves, without their teams collectively running with them. Even Ji-Sung Park didn't do that; once he ran, his full-back assisted and so did the midfielder on his inside - there was always a plan and a reason to exert that energy. We have no phases of play in pressing; our players don't actually know when to give maximum exertion; it also looks really, really amateur and unprofessional to run by yourself because then you just leave gaping holes to be played into, so you're not going to see it often. Obviously, City being masters of the bait and switch, you simply don't run around brainlessly against them because it plays into their hands.