Players & managers react to the Super League

[Tapori]

1. A European competition that has random clubs that make it without any merit at the expense of good footballing clubs like United / Arsenal is the one with no sporting merit. There's also no jeopardy, all these small time clubs just exist to be cannon fodder so the top teams can progress.



2.Explain how domestic football is being destroyed.
3.The Super league is a cup competition to replace the CL / EL.
.Not a league where top teams play each other for 38 games in a single season.

4. The only way PL is impacted is due to reduced drama of not having a top four qualification race and "just" a title race. Plenty of leagues do fine with a title race.

1. "Without any Merit"

You win to qualify under SPORTING achievements currently.
Arsenal is a "good footballing club" how? Are they better deserving than Leicester? Why?
We are a good footballing club how? We haven't qualified under our sporting performance for how many seasons since SAF left?


Then why have a ESL if their is no jeopardy in the current system as you say?
If the ESL is Merit based then describe what the merit is?

The ESL seeks to be led by PR, Marketing and Branding teams to accrue increased revenue purely for owners and dividends because of the "branding" of each club and the search for increased revenue streams from a potential consumer customer base.
Each club's brand though is based on the excitement generated by and as a part of a system where every club is never guaranteed to take part in the elite European competition and each club's inherent history.

Are you basing Merit on the success of PR and Marketing?

4. But isn't that drama what built the brand value? The leagues that do not have promotion relegation are a closed shop. Where is the merit in that? Are you a shareholder awaiting your dividends for such clubs?

Yes the PL's revenues are impacted. they are no saints. But even within the PL, there is relegation and promotion. Which aids progression through the tiers of the national games across the continent.

Do you actually believe in any sporting merit based on performance?
Why should your team be entitled to be in an elite competition if they have not performed to qualify?
The Leagues that have title races with closed shops are monopolies.
Why do you not what competition?


CL Reforms:
Why should any club be guaranteed CL football?
Why should the revamped CL not be considered?
How much is enough and for whom?

 

[njred]

Intrigued to see what Klopp will say, although it'll probably be similar to Solskjaer.

It wasn’t and I do not expect him to be coaching when this get’s up and running. He is in shock like the rest of us but will not call out the owners yet. He will comfortably get another position so I fully expect him to be able to speak freely. Could even get ugly as it should.

 

[Tapori]

A European competition that has random clubs that make it without any merit at the expense of good footballing clubs like United / Arsenal is the one with no sporting merit. There's also no jeopardy, all these small time clubs just exist to be cannon fodder so the top teams can progress.



Explain how domestic football is being destroyed. The Super league is a cup competition to replace the CL / EL. Not a league where top teams play each other for 38 games in a single season.

The only way PL is impacted is due to reduced drama of not having a top four qualification race and "just" a title race. Plenty of leagues do fine with a title race.

Explain how domestic football is being destroyed.

If the 6 clubs stay in the domestic competition, it devalues the revenue and competition domestically over a season, as league matches are rendered literally meaningless.
Why field any teams of merit if you can be League 2 and guaranteed to play every year in the ESL?
Which destroys the competitive element for the whole league.

If the 6 clubs leave all domestic competitions then I'm sure you will not mind when the clubs are re-located to metropolises with better fan revenue generation.

 

[horsechoker]

Klopp looked lost. He said lets wait until we know more...

He looked like he was saying "I want to condemn this but I don't want to get told off"

 

[Tincanalley]

Explain to me how a league in which there is no jeopardy or sporting merit is not a big deal?
Explain a league which destroys UK domestic football and with it 12 historic clubs, is not a "big deal."

put the troll on ignore is my advice

 

[Tincanalley]

1. "Without any Merit"

You win to qualify under SPORTING achievements currently.
Arsenal is a "good footballing club" how? Are they better deserving than Leicester? Why?
We are a good footballing club how? We haven't qualified under our sporting performance for how many seasons since SAF left?


Then why have a ESL if their is no jeopardy in the current system as you say?
If the ESL is Merit based then describe what the merit is?

The ESL seeks to be led by PR, Marketing and Branding teams to accrue increased revenue purely for owners and dividends because of the "branding" of each club and the search for increased revenue streams from a potential consumer customer base.
Each club's brand though is based on the excitement generated by and as a part of a system where every club is never guaranteed to take part in the elite European competition and each club's inherent history.

Are you basing Merit on the success of PR and Marketing?

4. But isn't that drama what built the brand value? The leagues that do not have promotion relegation are a closed shop. Where is the merit in that? Are you a shareholder awaiting your dividends for such clubs?

Yes the PL's revenues are impacted. they are no saints. But even within the PL, there is relegation and promotion. Which aids progression through the tiers of the national games across the continent.

Do you actually believe in any sporting merit based on performance?
Why should your team be entitled to be in an elite competition if they have not performed to qualify?
The Leagues that have title races with closed shops are monopolies.
Why do you not what competition?


CL Reforms:
Why should any club be guaranteed CL football?
Why should the revamped CL not be considered?
How much is enough and for whom?

All good points

 

[The Firestarter]

Bit of crickets this thread for actual reactions.

 

[NinjaZombie]

Agreed

Someone in another thread laughed at Podolski for speaking out about this because he has the nerve to... play football in Turkey?

I hope these same people are not expressing their views on the forum through a mobile phone that is partly made up of minerals harvested by poor people being exploited in the African continent.

Am I doing this false equivalency thing right?

 

[Teja]

1. "Without any Merit"

You win to qualify under SPORTING achievements currently.
Arsenal is a "good footballing club" how? Are they better deserving than Leicester? Why?
We are a good footballing club how? We haven't qualified under our sporting performance for how many seasons since SAF left?


Then why have a ESL if their is no jeopardy in the current system as you say?
If the ESL is Merit based then describe what the merit is?

The ESL seeks to be led by PR, Marketing and Branding teams to accrue increased revenue purely for owners and dividends because of the "branding" of each club and the search for increased revenue streams from a potential consumer customer base.
Each club's brand though is based on the excitement generated by and as a part of a system where every club is never guaranteed to take part in the elite European competition and each club's inherent history.

Are you basing Merit on the success of PR and Marketing?

4. But isn't that drama what built the brand value? The leagues that do not have promotion relegation are a closed shop. Where is the merit in that? Are you a shareholder awaiting your dividends for such clubs?

Yes the PL's revenues are impacted. they are no saints. But even within the PL, there is relegation and promotion. Which aids progression through the tiers of the national games across the continent.

Do you actually believe in any sporting merit based on performance?
Why should your team be entitled to be in an elite competition if they have not performed to qualify?
The Leagues that have title races with closed shops are monopolies.
Why do you not what competition?


CL Reforms:
Why should any club be guaranteed CL football?
Why should the revamped CL not be considered?
How much is enough and for whom?

You're going a bit all over the place here but my thoughts are the following.

A European cup competition with the best European clubs is a desirable thing for fans, clubs, broadcasters, basically everyone in football. The current / expanded CL don't give us that because UEFA is too beholden to the interests of smaller nations at the expense of bigger ones because of the way their elections work.

The lack of "sporting merit" you speak of appears that way only because the rules are stacked against English clubs. There is absolutely no way (even through our LVG / Moyes days), that we weren't one of the top 20 or so clubs in Europe. And yet there's no space for us in a cup competition with 36 teams in the group stages and 52 if you include the knockouts. To me it is ridiculous that Arsenal don't even have a look-in at a competition that has 52 other teams from across Europe.

The lack of promotion / relegation is one thing that leaves a bad taste. I suspect it's because UEFA has proven that it can't do anything in terms of enforcing actual FFP (See City vs UEFA verdict recently). For every financial fair play rule, there will be a 1000 other workarounds, so there's no way a club that derives its revenues primarily from football will be able to compete with sugardaddy owners. If left this way, we'll slowly transition to a world where oil money clubs play each other every year. This year's CL contenders are a pretty good preview of what's going to happen.

So instead of something objective like wage caps / transfer fee caps across Europe (like the ones American sports have), they've ended up with a system of 'we as big clubs decide who is playing fairly'. It's definitely heavy handed and could use some refinement.

I don't think the PL will be impacted, they're in a position of strength right now and just dislike change. Plenty of leagues do just fine without the fake / manufactured top four drama. If the UEFA were to change CL rules tomorrow so that the top 7 clubs in the PL have guaranteed spots, the PL will be fine with it.

 

[Tapori]

put the troll on ignore is my advice

Aye. But sharpens points. I probably missed 100 valid points.

 

[sullydnl]

Klopp said his previous opinion (that he didn't want a Super League) hadn't changed, he likes the CL, he likes the idea of clubs having to earn their place for the CL (even if it costs them on this occasion) and that the decision had nothing to do with him and the players.

I don't think you could really expect one of the managers involved to say more than that.

 

[Gary_Walsh_Nou_Camp_Hell]

Klopp said his previous opinion (that he didn't want a Super League) hadn't changed, he likes the CL, he likes the idea of clubs having to earn their place for the CL (even if it costs them on this occassion) and that the decision had nothing to do with him and the players.

I don't think you could really expect one of the managers involved to say more than that.

Yeah he's made his point but wise not to burn his bridges yet when it's still unclear how this will pan out.

 

[RepardReece]

Klopp said his previous opinion (that he didn't want a Super League) hadn't changed, he likes the CL, he likes the idea of clubs having to earn their place for the CL (even if it costs them on this occassion) and that the decision had nothing to do with him and the players.

I don't think you could really expect one of the managers involved to say more than that.

Agree. Don't understand what people expect of him. Everyone knows his view and he clearly doesn't agree with it.

 

[Tapori]

"The lack of "sporting merit" you speak of appears that way only because the rules are stacked against English clubs. There is absolutely no way (even through our LVG / Moyes days), that we weren't one of the top 20 or so clubs in Europe. And yet there's no space for us in a cup competition with 36 teams in the group stages and 52 if you include the knockouts.

We were top 20 or so in Europe at that time:
based on what?

Think lad. Go on think. What possible measure could we use to determine this most perplexing question? What rules would govern this most complex calculation? Go on lad. Think. There must be an answer in the form of basic matriculation surely?


And why do we deserve to be in that competition for that year?
Sporting Merit is simple:
You win enough games
through your performances
you accrue enough points
you qualify for the elite competition or win said competition.

Actually you'll also realize that UEFA gave the PL extra places.
It is the Champions League and you could even argue it should ONLY be for given Champions of all domestic leagues for any given year.

If not by this measure -
Which measure are you using?
Because you say so?
Bank Balance?
PR?
Fan base?
Biggest pitch?
Biggest balls?

"To me it is ridiculous that Arsenal don't even have a look-in at a competition that has 52 other teams from across Europe."

Based on what?
Why do Arsenal deserve to be in an elite European merit-seasonal-sporting contest?
Why should my enjoyment of AFTV be ruined because you think Arsenal should be immune to sporting competition's consequences?

Closed Leagues

Why should a set number of teams decide no-one else can ever join or that they are immune to underperforming?
How is that competitive?

I would remind you closed teams that have salary caps et al and draft limitations prevent more players playing the game.

Where are you based in your life?

 

[sect2k]

You don’t understand any of the things you’re talking about. Players should arguably be paid more. Not less.

By all means, do make and argument, how players, who get paid 100k+ a week, should be paid more, should be a fun read.

 

[Dirty Schwein]

A European competition that has random clubs that make it without any merit at the expense of good footballing clubs like United / Arsenal is the one with no sporting merit. There's also no jeopardy, all these small time clubs just exist to be cannon fodder so the top teams can progress.



Explain how domestic football is being destroyed. The Super league is a cup competition to replace the CL / EL. Not a league where top teams play each other for 38 games in a single season.

The only way PL is impacted is due to reduced drama of not having a top four qualification race and "just" a title race. Plenty of leagues do fine with a title race.

You honestly think Arsenal, a team that is around 10th in the league should be in the elite competition in place of Leicester who can finish top 4?

That's the thinking you are condoning if you agree with this.

 

[Kasper]

That Klopp interview is actually better than I thought. Not only because he still stands by his words and puts the importance of the opinion of supporters forward but because - unlike many others who have had their say so far - he doesn`t let UEFA get away with suddenly playing the cheerleader of solidarity and inclusion role.
Still looks like someone who would`ve liked to chose stronger words but can`t because of the position he`s in. Very interesting how all of this develops.

 

[sullydnl]

By all means, do make and argument, how players, who get paid 100k+ a week, should be paid more, should be a fun read.

Presumably because the industry as a whole makes so much money that the talent (who the industry is built on) should get a bigger portion of it, as opposed to others disproportionately making money off them.

It's not an argument that has only been applied to football. For example in MMA even the biggest draws like Conor McGregor are unquestionably underpaid, despite receiving millions. The point isn't how much they earn but rather how much they earn relative to the money they make for their industry.

Regardless of that particular argument, it would certainly be stupid to actually assign blame to the players or their wages for this.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

By all means, do make and argument, how players, who get paid 100k+ a week, should be paid more, should be a fun read.

Many footballers are underpaid as a product of how much money their club makes.

Anyone complaining about how much an athlete earns for becoming the best at what they do, is small minded.

The pathetic media we have in this country tells you it’s obscene by making it a weekly number. Then justify a hedge fund managers salary. Or Tom Cruises. Or Lewis Hamilton’s. Or any number of other people that are paid just as much or more.

£5.2m quid, paying monumental figures into the public purse in taxation. It’s not obscene for what they do.

 

[dannyrhinos89]

Absolute bollocks. Footballers grow up dreaming of winning the Premier League and Champions League. They’ve just spent the last couple of years under Ole trying to build something towards that dream and they’ve just realised that dream might no longer exist. Bollocks to the “footballers are just mercenaries” nonsense.

You been walking round in a daze for years or something? All footballers/agents care about is milking as much money as they can in wages from clubs.

Let's see how many players from these teams leave the clubs if they love the "football dream" so much.

If footballers aren't mercenaries like you say they should all be handing in transfer requests when this becomes official......they won't though because that 200k a week they earn will easily turn into 400k a week.

 

[Tincanalley]

Yeah he's made his point but wise not to burn his bridges yet when it's still unclear how this will pan out.

Fair play to him. That's enough, signals to the fans to keep the faith and resist this poison

 

[Pexbo]

You been walking round in a daze for years or something? All footballers/agents care about is milking as much money as they can in wages from clubs.

Let's see how many players from these teams leave the clubs if they love the "football dream" so much.

If footballers aren't mercenaries like you say they should all be handing in transfer requests when this becomes official......they won't though because that 200k a week they earn will easily turn into 400k a week.

Thats completely outside the point that I’m making. Those players will be genuinely devastated that their dreams of EPL and UCL trophies might be completely smashed. Will they go to the Super League if that’s where the money and prestige is? Of course they will, nobody is going to want to win a Mickey Mouse EPL or UCL while earning less money.

 

[sullydnl]

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[littlepeasoup]

Easier for James Milner to come out against it, when the best part of his career (and then some) is behind him. Glad he did it, but it'll be interesting to see how many younger players or player in their prime come out like he did unequivocally.

 

[Tom Cato]

Easier for James Milner to come out against it, when the best part of his career (and then some) is behind him. Glad he did it, but it'll be interesting to see how many younger players or player in their prime come out like he did unequivocally.

Can people stop this fecking belittling of players coming out against this? It's been going on all fecking day.

 

[Kentonio]

Many footballers are underpaid as a product of how much money their club makes.

Anyone complaining about how much an athlete earns for becoming the best at what they do, is small minded.

The pathetic media we have in this country tells you it’s obscene by making it a weekly number. Then justify a hedge fund managers salary. Or Tom Cruises. Or Lewis Hamilton’s. Or any number of other people that are paid just as much or more.

£5.2m quid, paying monumental figures into the public purse in taxation. It’s not obscene for what they do.

Ah give me a fecking break, of course it's obscene, just like it's obscene when it's a movie star or a banker or anyone else. As long as theres people working hard in factories or shops or building sites for a few hundred quid a week, there is literally no-one 'earning' £100,000+ a week.

 

[sullydnl]

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[sullydnl]

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[sullydnl]

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[sullydnl]

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[arnie_ni]

Who has the power to topple this?

Pep at City?
Messi at Barca?


I dont think any one person apart from them 2 have the power.

Maybe ramos at Madrid?

 

[horsechoker]

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Bang on the money

 

[horsechoker]

Who has the power to topple this?

Pep at City?
Messi at Barca?


I dont think any one person apart from them 2 have the power.

Maybe ramos at Madrid?

Eder at *Googles where he plays*

 

[Berbaclass]

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Talk about irony.

 

[Kita]

Talk about irony.

How so? MLS?

 

[Dirty Schwein]

It's funny how everyone wants the players or managers to speak out but when they do, their pasts are bought into it.

I could imagine Rashford saying he's against it and some poster here quoting and saying "yeah but he's been taking money from the Glazers with no complaint all this time".

It's baffling

 

[Pogue Mahone]

It's funny how everyone wants the players or managers to speak out but when they do, their pasts are bought into it.

I could imagine Rashford saying he's against it and some poster here quoting and saying "yeah but he's been taking money from the Glazers with no complaint all this time".

It's baffling

It’s absolute nonsense. “You earned a living from football. You therefore forfeit any right to have an opinion on the future of the sport”. WTF?

 

[Berbaclass]

How so? MLS?

Yeah

 

[sullydnl]

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[Devil may care]

@GifLord do you have the clip of Milner's comments? Best from anyone connected to the toxic 6 so far.

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Damn, even Atalanta are taking shots at Spurs and Arsenal's inclusion.