Players who other people seem to rate

FootballHQ

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How many goals would England have conceded against The Netherlands if Smalling had played instead of Stones? The latter is a good example for this forum.
How do you expect me to answer that? I'm not huge on John Stones as it is but Smalling was playing when you were getting smashed 4-0 by Everton so he was hardly a magnet for clean sheets in the run in.

He's had good runs of form for Man. United down the years (when he was getting called by England) but just feels to me like he's yesterday's man now so can understand why Southgate dosen't call him up.
 

Zehner

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I think some of the takes in here are terrible but I agree to an extent with the overall point.

People have began to talk so highly of the dm role it’s definitely become overrated. People simplify situations and so when they see our midfield getting exposed constantly they assume it’s because we don’t have a good dm. However in reality it’s much more complicated than that, we ger exposed because of our inability to defend as a unit and the gaps in our team due to the imbalance of roles. We can’t defend high but we also want to attack and this results in huge gaps between defence, midfield and attack which gets exploited easily. People think a great dm will cover all that space but one man cannot do it all on his own. We need to close the gaps and be more compact as a team but this won’t happen until we get a better defence and more technically good players in midfield and attack.

So yeah the need for a dm is overrated but not because of the reasons you mentioned.
I think if a DM gets appreciated for his defensive co tribution, this is already a sign that the collective doesn't work right. If the player before the defense has to tackle a lot or close down great amounts of space, something isn't working. Look at Busquets at Barca, the guy can't run for his life but the defense was rock solid because he didn't even have to.

I like players like Kanté or Casemiro but they are best at covering flaws in the system. If there aren't any, a player type like Busquets, Pirlo or Jorginho is a brillant fit for the position. This is the position for transitional moments, whether it's directly after winning possession or creating momentum in static situations.

I mean, even Klopp used such a player at Dortmund (Sahin) and Pirlo was deployed in defensively great Italian, Juve and Milan sides.
 

Sir Scott McToMinay

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I think if a DM gets appreciated for his defensive co tribution, this is already a sign that the collective doesn't work right. If the player before the defense has to tackle a lot or close down great amounts of space, something isn't working. Look at Busquets at Barca, the guy can't run for his life but the defense was rock solid because he didn't even have to.

I like players like Kanté or Casemiro but they are best at covering flaws in the system. If there aren't any, a player type like Busquets, Pirlo or Jorginho is a brillant fit for the position. This is the position for transitional moments, whether it's directly after winning possession or creating momentum in static situations.

I mean, even Klopp used such a player at Dortmund (Sahin) and Pirlo was deployed in defensively great Italian, Juve and Milan sides.
Cmon, stop it you.
 

Zehner

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Cmon, stop it you.
Player type, I didn't say he's as good as the other two ;) a little bit of a luxury player. If your defensive strategy works, he's great. If he's got to improvise, cover a lot of open space and finds himself in many duels against attackers, of course a 'typical' DM is better. Think he'd be great for City exemplarily, just as he was for Napoli.
 

FootballHQ

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Never seen the fuss over Demarai Gray tbh. He's been at Leicester since January 2016 but seems to have stalled unlike their other young players.
 

Welby5

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That is obviously true, but they dominate possession because of their approach to the game, which means that they don't need destructive midfielders. Guardiola defends with his front players, with his wingers, with the whole team. I know that not every team can necessarily play that way, I've just felt for a long time that the DM position is overrated, and some of the players that play it are overrated.

Another example is Kovacic. He went to Chelsea having made over 110 appearances for Real Madrid in three seasons. Any other player that had done that and signed for Chelsea, not only would it be a really exciting signing that would capture the imagination of fans, but you would really expect something from them. But Kovacic made almost no impression whatsoever. They could have got someone out of the Championship, and he couldn't have done much worse. Now Kovacic will get to move to Inter Milan, or so it seems, after 4 seasons in which he scored 3 goals in 161 games, and for Chelsea he had 1 assist and 0 goals in 51 appearances.

Now I would say that player is easily replaceable, and if you signed any other major first-team player from Real Madrid then their contribution would be far more obvious and explicit. I wouldn't say that anyone could 'sit in the front of the back four', but you don't seem to have to do that much if you do play in that position. All you have to do is not go forward, get in the way occasionally, and recycle possession. That's all Kovacic does and has done for years, and yet he's considered world-class in his position.

Let me assure you, you won't find a single Chelsea who thinks Kovacic is close to world class!
 

ayushreddevil9

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Jesse Lingard.

The other people being Manchester United managers particularly.
 

predator

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Scholes. Very good player, but not elite.
Finally!

Its nice to see that there are people out there who agree with me regarding Scholes. Whether or not you agree with the following is another matter but you are right imo, that he is not elite.

He was very good, no doubt about that. His all round game bar his tackling, discipline and ability to win a match by himself was brilliant.

Admittedly he wasn't recognised as much as he should during his playing days, but I feel that alot of people jumped on the bandwagon when he retired, due to the likes of Lippi, Xavi, Henry, Zidane etc singing his praises post retirement. During his career I dont recall too many players or fans making such a fuss over him.

I personally think Gerrard and Lampard are better than scholes with all things considered.
 

Andersonson

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Finally!

Its nice to see that there are people out there who agree with me regarding Scholes. Whether or not you agree with the following is another matter but you are right imo, that he is not elite.

He was very good, no doubt about that. His all round game bar his tackling, discipline and ability to win a match by himself was brilliant.

Admittedly he wasn't recognised as much as he should during his playing days, but I feel that alot of people jumped on the bandwagon when he retired, due to the likes of Lippi, Xavi, Henry, Zidane etc singing his praises post retirement. During his career I dont recall too many players or fans making such a fuss over him.

I personally think Gerrard and Lampard are better than scholes with all things considered.
You think Gerrard was better as a midfielder than Scholes? Really?

I see this alot, from both United fans and Liverpool fans. And vica versa. Gerrard was by far best when he played behind the striker or as a right winger. As a midfielder he was a liability when he didnt win the games on his own.

He's one of the best players in the premier league when it comes to being able to controll the game. Something we clearly lack today and Pogba is no where near doing that. He's more Gerrard than Scholes if you could compare the two - and Scholes would tear those apart in that regard.

Carrick was also able to controll a game. Since he left I've never felt we controlled a game in the way we used too.
 

Acheron

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Joao Felix, haven't seen much about him so I'm very curious to see how he does for Atlético. I mean with that price tag one would think there's something very special but either way it should be fun to watch them next season.
 

SambaBoy

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Never seen the fuss over Demarai Gray tbh. He's been at Leicester since January 2016 but seems to have stalled unlike their other young players.
Yeah seems a lot of his managers start with him before putting him back on the bench. According to reports, he has the talent in training, and looks very impressive but has never really shown it in games bar a few glimpses here and there. He's still on 22 so there is time on his side but think he's a luxury player without being good enough to earn that tag.
 

jackal&hyde

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From our current players it has to be Smalling for me. Decent at defending but terrible at everything else and the most awkward passer i've ever seen. Some people seem to rate him and it baffles me. I don't remember seeing such a one dimensional player at a big club.

From the past it has to be Welbeck. When we sold him some were acting as if we sold Old Trafford or something. A below average attacker that had speed in his locker and little else. Terrible finisher too.
 
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WolfInSharp'sClothing

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For the most part the reason we demanded more was because Jorge Mendes wanted to take half of that fee (7.5M I believe)based on another transfer that had transpired (something like that). Which is why Mendes is a cancer but anyways.

The reason us Sporting fans are mad at him is for the fact he terminated his contract based on the incident from a bunch of thugs and he was so quick to jump ship and abandon us after we had defended him and stayed behind him for years while he was still making mistakes when he was young and costing us games but we stayed behind him and he became the beast he became. Then at the first chance he got he bounced and left and screwed the club over.

We were willing to let him leave but it had to be vantages for the club as well and since we formed him and made him the man he is today he could have at least tried to help the club who gave him everything.

The reason then a fee was agreed was we were going to take them all too court and since 3 players had returned to Sporting there was a good chance we would have won the court appeal. To avoid any drama and respectfully so by wolves they agreed to still pay the initial 17M that was agreed as to not have any bad blood between the two clubs which would jeaopordize future potential deals.
Fair comments. I can't imagine I'd be thrilled if a player that had been at my club for years did something similar.

I suppose I'd be more nervous about Mendes' involvement at Wolves if it weren't for the unique relationship he has with our owners. As such, I don't think we have much to worry about.
 

Jibberjabber

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Going to be controversial on here but Roy Keane. Don't get me wrong, in aggression and as a driving force for Utd he was outstanding but as far as footballing ability goes I never saw him like most others did.


Scholes. Very good player, but not elite.
Scholes was quality IMO, fantastic footballer who would have got a starting place in any team in the world at his peak.
 

TwoSheds

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He's had a season and a half of first team football. AWB is clearly a brilliant defender and owns his side of the pitch and he's athletic enough to have a presence in the final third. But he does struggle to attack (very similar to Shaw). As for Laird, he's excellent, i've raved about him for a few months now but it's still too early for him. I'd be happy to see him rotated as an attacking option on the bench. But it does make you wonder what our long term thinking is with Dalot if Laird does breakthrough.
Our thinking is that not all young talents become top class full backs (as evidenced by Shaw and Rafael for example). Having competition is a good thing for their development and the fact they're all versatile players means they'll have a chance to cement their spots in the squad regardless of what the others do.
 

Cabin Clown

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Dele Alli - For an attacking mid he doesn't pass as well as he should, his shooting ability is overrated, and he can take too long on the ball.
Sergio Ramos - Way too rash and error-prone for a supposed top centre-back.
John Stones - Just so massively overrated.
Declan Rice - Looks average enough.
Antoine Greizzman - Wouldn't make it with us
 

Welby5

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Finally!

Its nice to see that there are people out there who agree with me regarding Scholes. Whether or not you agree with the following is another matter but you are right imo, that he is not elite.

He was very good, no doubt about that. His all round game bar his tackling, discipline and ability to win a match by himself was brilliant.

Admittedly he wasn't recognised as much as he should during his playing days, but I feel that alot of people jumped on the bandwagon when he retired, due to the likes of Lippi, Xavi, Henry, Zidane etc singing his praises post retirement. During his career I dont recall too many players or fans making such a fuss over him.

I personally think Gerrard and Lampard are better than scholes with all things considered.
And all things considered, Lampard was better than Scoales and Gerrard! Goals win mtaches - Scoales scored 91. Gerrard 120. Lampard 211 for Chelsea. On top of that, Lampard is 4th in alltime assists. Putting club bias aside, the hard stats are overwhelming for Sir Frank!
 

Welbeckham

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David De Gea...

is a limited and mentally weak goalkeeper. Doesn’t come off his line to help his defence, so he obviously needs to make a lot of saves. Of course there is plenty of problems with our defenders and midfielders, but there are much better goalkeepers around.

Look at Alisson, Ederson or peak Neuer, they’re so confident that it’s arrogant, and they’re very comfortable with the ball, having a great understanding of the game. That kind of goalkeeper helps their team massively, the instant impact they made compared to their predecessors was huge.

Diogo Dalot...

being good at attacking is a myth. Defensively he’s indeed quite hopeless. His technical ability and football intelligence pales very, very badly in comparison with Rafael at same age. He isn’t particularly good at controlling the ball, dribbling or passing. He’s also not very fast and strong.

Victor Valdes...

was an average goalkeeper, baffling that he was chosen by Barca as better talent than Pepe Reina (who never was particularly good either). I always thought they could have won even more things with a better goalkeeper.
 

FootballHQ

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Otamendi outside Man. City system is dreadful defender.
 

diarm

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I need to stop opening this thread because every time I do something in here triggers me.
 

BrownRecluse

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Victor Valdes...

was an average goalkeeper, baffling that he was chosen by Barca as better talent than Pepe Reina (who never was particularly good either). I always thought they could have won even more things with a better goalkeeper.
Great shout. I never understood why Barca kept choosing him. He was the only link in the period of Barca domination.