Playing out from the back...

[Amar__]

A common rebuttal has often been ‘Not everyone can do it like Barcelona’. They are all over the place at the moment, and a lot is of their own making.

There is a clear difference when you have prime Xavi in midfield, and the likes of Alves wide, Mascherano in defence, etc.

You need to have fully functional team all around for it to work at greatest level. I hope Giflord can gif it because that moment when they conceeded a corner just shows how stupid it can look when the team is clearly not bothered or not quality enough to play it, but they just try to di it because their manager told them to do it.

 

[Amar__]

Great, as always, thank you!

Just shows how clueless it can look at times, just look at Langlet and Pique, like two idiots.

 

[DWelbz19]

So fecking stupid. I hate this fad so much.

 

[Rozay]

These hipsters cost Chris Smalling his career at the very top with their rubbish.

 

[adexkola]

These hipsters cost Chris Smalling his career at the very top with their rubbish.

What hipsters

 

[Synco]

Did anyone notice that Bayern were... constantly playing out from the back today?

 

[adexkola]

Did anyone notice that Bayern were... constantly playing out from the back today?

They were hoofing/Brexiting it

 

[Synco]

They were hoofing it

Wut?

 

[Rozay]

What hipsters

Barcelona and their disciples. Defending has become unfashionable, and half of the top teams have rubbish defences.

 

[sammsky1]

Another fad of hipster football being blatantly exposed as idiotic. I mean you can use it sometimes but to make it obligatory must do policy is insane. Modern day coaches have some kind of mental issue.

Sooner OGS gets rid of it from our play the better!

 

[edcunited1878]

Playing out from the back is fine, but it's the primary requisite for a defender now? Having composure on the ball, making the right decisions on the ball, and passing it when you should is the key and what makes some CBs better than others.

Lindelof does this, Maguire does this. Them lacking top pace or top quickness doesn't mean they are shit.

And there are times when you have to pump the ball long and just bypass the press and compete for the 2nd and 3rd ball, which is what Liverpool do better and more effective than anyone else.

 

[sammsky1]

What hipsters

This forum has been infected by many of them

 

[Synco]

Another fad of hipster football being blatantly exposed as idiotic. Sooner OGS gets rid of it from our play the better!

I mean you can use it sometimes but to make it obligatory must do policy is insane. Modern day coaches have some kind of mental issue.

Or they understand the game better than you. One of these two.

 

[sammsky1]

Or they understand the game better than you. One of these two.

I don’t think they do

 

[paraguayo]

Its 2nd CL in a row Ter Stegen looks shakey

 

[adexkola]

Wut?

Joke

Barcelona and their disciples. Defending has become unfashionable, and half of the top teams have rubbish defences.

Defending has not become unfashionable (Atletico, Liverpool, Wolves...). There are multiple ways of keeping the ball out of the net, and possession is one way of doing this (City and Barcelona are teams that historically have conceded the fewest amount of goals across the board)

Barcelona have just lost their heads

This forum has been infected by many of them

True but they didn't drive Smalling out of United

 

[Rozay]

Joke



Defending has not become unfashionable (Atletico, Liverpool, Wolves...). There are multiple ways of keeping the ball out of the net, and possession is one way of doing this (City and Barcelona are teams that historically have conceded the fewest amount of goals across the board)

Barcelona have just lost their heads



True but they didn't drive Smalling out of United

I said half of the top teams have rubbish defences, not all. Liverpool are one of the few t teams that can defend, and Atleti and Wolves are far from ‘fashionable’. And Wolves don’t have great defenders anyway, they just play 7 at the back like cowards. Atleti actually have good defenders, who are picked primarily for their ability to defend. John Stones was not signed for £50m primarily due to his ability to defend.

 

[Synco]

I don’t think they do

At least we agree about the range of options.

 

[adexkola]

I said half of the top teams have rubbish defences, not all. Liverpool are one of the few t teams that can defend, and Atleti and Wolves are far from ‘fashionable’. And Wolves don’t have great defenders anyway, they just play 7 at the back like cowards. Atleti actually have good defenders, who are picked primarily for their ability to defend. John Stones was not signed for £50m primarily due to his ability to defend.

You ignored my line about City conceding the least goals (best defense in 2018, second best in 2019)

They obviously care about keeping goals out their end, you can't win trophies otherwise

 

[Rozay]

You ignored my line about City conceding the least goals (best defense in 2018, second best in 2019)

They obviously care about keeping goals out their end, you can't win trophies otherwise

Yet they keep trying to rebuild their defence every year. They have conceded few goals because teams are terrified of them. When they are attacked, they often defend poorly. Because many of their actual defenders are not equipped to deal with being attacked.

 

[Cheimoon]

So fecking stupid. I hate this fad so much.

This would actually have been fine if Ter Stegen hadn't kicked it long like that. He could have passed it to his left, which would have drawn in another guy from Bayern, allowing a further pass left or right, further drawing in Bayern players. At that point, there would have been more space behind Bayern's line of pressure, and the ball could have been passed into the space behind. Alternatively, Ter Stegen could have passed it long to the guy standing next to the referee or the guy in the bottom right corner. (Can't be bothered to look up who's who, but see at five second into the video as Ter Stegen kicks the ball.) As a final resort, Ter Stegen could have kicked it long to the side, where there's less danger in case the ball is lost.

What he did now, however, a long ball through the middle to a place where there aren't any Barça players, makes no sense. I don't see how that's specific to 'playing out from the back'; I would put it down more simply as a goalkeeper's fault.

 

[DWelbz19]

This would actually have been fine if Ter Stegen hadn't kicked it long like that. He could have passed it to his left, which would have drawn in another guy from Bayern, allowing a further pass left or right, further drawing in Bayern players. At that point, there would have been more space behind Bayern's line of pressure, and the ball could have been passed into the space behind. Alternatively, Ter Stegen could have passed it long to the guy standing next to the referee or the guy in the bottom right corner. (Can't be bothered to look up who's who, but see at five second into the video as Ter Stegen kicks the ball.) As a final resort, Ter Stegen could have kicked it long to the side, where there's less danger in case the ball is lost.

What he did now, however, a long ball through the middle to a place where there aren't any Barça players, makes no sense. I don't see how that's specific to 'playing out from the back'; I would put it down more simply as a goalkeeper's fault.

I just watch us do it every week every single time we get the ball and similar things happen. Then I watch other teams in the PL and the same things happen. Then I watch other teams in the CL and the same things happen.

People can cite City’s stats, which is fine, but they are very very much the exception to the rule as they’re managed by the man who all but brought it into the modern game in its current iteration.

Playing out from the back = a fine, viable tactic
Playing out from the back every single initial attack when you haven’t the personnel to handle it and you’re clearly playing into your opponents hands = bad

 

[Cheimoon]

I just watch us do it every week every single time we get the ball and similar things happen. Then I watch other teams in the PL and the same things happen. Then I watch other teams in the CL and the same things happen.

People can cite City’s stats, which is fine, but they are very very much the exception to the rule as they’re managed by the man who all but brought it into the modern game in its current iteration.

Playing out from the back = a fine, viable tactic
Playing out from the back every single initial attack when you haven’t the personnel to handle it and you’re clearly playing into your opponents hands = bad

Oh, I totally agree. Part of teaching a team to play out from the back should be teaching them when to put it long anyway. But then you also have to explain how to do that usefully. It's good that Ter Stegen figures it's getting too complicated and it's time to just kick the ball away - but not straight into Bayern's possession in the centre of the pitch before the halfway line!

 

[Red00012]

A common rebuttal has often been ‘Not everyone can do it like Barcelona’. They are all over the place at the moment, and a lot is of their own making.

They look like us doing it tonight

 

[adexkola]

Yet they keep trying to rebuild their defence every year. They have conceded few goals because teams are terrified of them. When they are attacked, they often defend poorly. Because many of their actual defenders are not equipped to deal with being attacked.

This is not true but this is a discussion for another thread

 

[Still ill]

They look like us doing it tonight

Damning. But true.

 

[EwanI Ted]

And there are times when you have to pump the ball long and just bypass the press and compete for the 2nd and 3rd ball, which is what Liverpool do better and more effective than anyone else.

Once you play with fast technical players who like the ball on the ground like Martial, Rashford, Bruno and co, long balls stop being a particularly useful option.

 

[Bojan11]

This has nothing to with playing from the back. Barca have been pathetic.

 

[adexkola]

This has nothing to with playing from the back. Barca have been pathetic.

Exactly. Barcelona could hoof the ball every time they got it, they were still getting mullered

 

[edcunited1878]

Once you play with fast technical players who like the ball on the ground like Martial, Rashford, Bruno and co, long balls stop being a particularly useful option.

The long ball is get out of your area and allow your backline to relieve the pressure and push up and then you allow the passage of play and battle for the ball/possession up the pitch away from your goal. Then you yes, have to be composed when on it or challenging for it to pick a pass to get possession and set yourself up to pass to your teammates, but not all the way back in your area when you just need to matriculate the ball up the pitch.

 

[Bobski]

Making the keeper the prime distributor from the back is an odd direction the game has taken. Ter Stegen was woeful with his kicking, but the CB's kept going back to him instead of taking responsibility themselves.

 

[Rozay]

To say that ‘Barcelona didn’t lose because they tried to play out from the back’ isn’t the point. They conceded several chances because they tried to play out from the back. That is not what you want to do. Nobody is here arguing that not playing out from the back makes you go and beat better football teams ffs. We are arguing that doing it under great pressure increases the likelihood of chances against you.

 

[EwanI Ted]

The long ball is get out of your area and allow your backline to relieve the pressure and push up and then you allow the passage of play and battle for the ball/possession up the pitch away from your goal. Then you yes, have to be composed when on it or challenging for it to pick a pass to get possession and set yourself up to pass to your teammates, but not all the way back in your area when you just need to matriculate the ball up the pitch.

Yes, I get why you do it. The issue is that our players are not geared to play that type of game.

 

[Santoryo]

These hipsters cost Chris Smalling his career at the very top with their rubbish.

 

[adexkola]

To say that ‘Barcelona didn’t lose because they tried to play out from the back’ isn’t the point. They conceded several chances because they tried to play out from the back. That is not what you want to do. Nobody is here arguing that not playing out from the back makes you go and beat better football teams ffs. We are arguing that doing it under great pressure increases the likelihood of chances against you.

Sure but if you do it great, under great pressure, it increases the chances of you hurting the other team. Because the other team wants you to either panic and give up the ball, or hoof it and return it back to them. Defenses will get pressed, that is the nature of the game. The reward is great if your defense can bypass that pressing. And if you decide to bypass all that and hoof all the time then, and this something I believe strongly, your team has a low ceiling on their offensive potential. This is why coaches all over the world are committed to making this work, and endure getting laughed at when they start to implement it. This is part of the reason why very few top teams play like Burnley.

But we can agree that Barcelona had a shitty game doing it today and was punished. If you're gonna be shitty at it it's better to play it safe. You'll have a long game though batting off wave after wave of attack.

 

[edcunited1878]

Yes, I get why you do it. The issue is that our players are not geared to play that type of game.

AWB isn't good enough, yet (hopefully he can be) to play from the back. As in technically, he's not. But you don't have to always play that game, especially in England. Teams like Southampton may press you, but it's not like they're pulling up trees in the table...they're bang on midtable. So part of being a good player and team is knowing your limitations and doing what you can and doing it well. It's okay if United cannot pass through every team from the back. But it's about starting possession from the back, being patient, and making the correct passes to help setup your team go forward.

You're going to get caught out sometimes, but it's not like you're conceding a goal every time. Liverpool don't play out from the back, they have a lot of long balls and crosses from deep areas. Having good techincal skills on the ball allows you to keep the ball better, for sure, but playing out from the back is much more than passing. It's composure, intelligence on the ball, positioning off of it, etc. And first and foremost, if you're a defender...you gotta be able to defend when you're called upon more times than not. And more times than not, United's defenders have defended well.

 

[edcunited1878]

Sure but if you do it great, under great pressure, it increases the chances of you hurting the other team. Because the other team wants you to either panic and give up the ball, or hoof it and return it back to them. Defenses will get pressed, that is the nature of the game. The reward is great if your defense can bypass that pressing. And if you decide to bypass all that and hoof all the time then, and this something I believe strongly, your team has a low ceiling on their offensive potential. This is why coaches all over the world are committed to making this work, and endure getting laughed at when they start to implement it. This is part of the reason why very few top teams play like Burnley.

But we can agree that Barcelona had a shitty game doing it today and was punished. If you're gonna be shitty at it it's better to play it safe. You'll have a long game though batting off wave after wave of attack.

But then that's where you defend as a unit and retain the ball and possession as a unit...but we all know that Barcelona do not defend as a unit, especially not after Pep.

Messi literally, as he has been doing for the most part of this year, and recent...plus Suarez, just stands still and don't defend or put in the minimum effort in the defending half.

The off ball pressure, restricting space, knowing your spatial awareness and position when pressing and where teammates should be were key components of peak Barca....that is not even close anymore. That's how you defend without the ball.

 

[adexkola]

But then that's where you defend as a unit and retain the ball and possession as a unit...but we all know that Barcelona do not defend as a unit, especially not after Pep.

Messi literally, as he has been doing for the most part of this year, and recent...plus Suarez, just stands still and don't defend or put in the minimum effort in the defending half.

The off ball pressure, restricting space, knowing your spatial awareness and position when pressing and where teammates should be were key components of peak Barca....that is not even close anymore. That's how you defend without the ball.

That is all correct and I firmly believe that defense is a team effort leading from the front. Messi is not the only passenger in that side (he sort of gets an excuse because of his offensive output) but the energy in that team is pathetic.

 

[Santoryo]

This has nothing to with playing from the back. Barca have been pathetic.

Pretty much this. Bayern themselves played out from the back and they did just fine, so claiming it's a bad tactic seems ridiculous.

Barca were simply clowns tonight.

Exactly. Barcelona could hoof the ball every time they got it, they were still getting mullered

yep.

 

[Amar__]

Playing out from the back = a fine, viable tactic
Playing out from the back every single initial attack when you haven’t the personnel to handle it and you’re clearly playing into your opponents hands = bad

Yep.

Having your defenders so deep around your goalkeeper in every single attack is obviously not the greatest way of playing football, because it definitely makes you conceede more chances than you can create by playing like that.