Pogba

[Jeppers7]

Think we've mentioned this before but I feel you use the teams performance as an excuse for Pogba underperforming. He's supposed to be one of those that gets the team playing.

What that means is whenever the team is poor, we can't comment on any individual players performance. Because they've all then got that excuse.

But what's positive is that the manager and coaches seem to view Pogba like lots of fans do. Talented, an able contributor, but not indispensable. So we shouldn't be held to ransom come negotiation time.

Well I’m tiring of this conversation so I’ll finish my side by saying there were no excuses in what I wrote, of course you can judge individual performances outside of team performance. For example Pogba played well against Burnley and Fulham to name but two this season when the team were poor. There were numerous games when he was our best player this season when we played poorly as a team. There were games he made a real difference, this season and in previous seasons despite the team being crap. He almost turned the game around against Red Bull when he came on. Within a whisker of keeping us in the CL even though as a team we were poor. He won us the Milan quarter final despite the rest of the team playing poorly. He kept Jose in a job in his last season etc etc.

What I do struggle to find is games where the team has played well and he hasn’t.

You can continue to ignore my questions so it’s pointless continuing solely on your terms.

 

[Idxomer]

Anyone else noticed the cnut was lightning quick to dismiss contract extension from the club but kept quiet for months whem his agent ran his mouth about the club. Cnut

Pathetic.

 

[Abraxas]

It's hard to get mega excited about Pogba. It feels slightly awkward because he is among our most talented players, and it really should be exciting news.

Perhaps it is the inability for him to define a role for himself, and the excuses that get peddled out every time he goes on an inevitable run of inconsistency. Also known as blaming the manager or the other players.

Perhaps it is his agent, who is always going to have a vested interest in stirring the pot. Whether it be inflammatory comments at inopportune moments or general sniping, it doesn't do a lot for the feeling one has towards Pogba when he is allowed to do this with impunity - Paul Pogba chooses who represents him no matter how you dice it.

Perhaps it is the constant flirting with other clubs when he is an extremely well paid player at a massive football club that has really just needed him to show what a good player is game on game, season on season. If you do that and the club do not match your ambition there is likely to be greater sympathy for his position.

It is probably good news, overall. He's a very talented player and offers a set of skills that few have. He's also had some good showings this season. But somehow my apathy remains. It's probably not helped by the fact that with all that has happened it is very hard to dissect what his motivations and true feelings are in going for this contract.

 

[krentz]

Just like how the club sold Rojo, Jones and Romero for some money?

Giving him a contract extension with a pay raise for his showing over the years would make us a a bigger laughing stock when he continues to under perform and have his agent and brother mock us through the media.

Or Lukaku and Blind? Just like i said the other option is losing him for free in 6 months because Raiola would rather see himself pocketing 20M signing fee than "giving" United a chance to recoup some money for his client (happening with Donnarumma)

thinking moslem owners prefer moslem players

also moslem

May i know what's wrong with that?

 

[roseguy64]

"Anonymous" is being generous on many occasions, when he's not "on it" he's often a fecking liability. See e.g. the amount of penalties he's given away.

The penalties have nothing to do with how well he's playing

 

[roseguy64]

We just wasted money on Donny when Pogba was injured for awhile last season Ole should have played Donny in Pogba's place. I don't know why he doesn't trust him.

He was also injured when Pogba was injured.

 

[roseguy64]

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The Athletic and ESPN backing up Sky's story.

 

[Marcus]

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The Athletic and ESPN backing up Sky's story.

These tweets literally say nothing. Is there any option other than renewing or running down his contract? I guess maybe retiring to become a DJ, influencer etc.

 

[Tallis]

At this time, he and Raiola are holding all the cards. Either they renew for a lot of money or they sign with someone else and get a lot of money.

The only tactic we can use (which isn’t a great one) is to bench him / have him train with the reserves etc in the hope he moves in Jan.

 

[ThatsGreat]

These tweets literally say nothing. Is there any option other than renewing or running down his contract? I guess maybe retiring to become a DJ, influencer etc.

He also has an option of changing clubs, you know.

 

[cedara]

Just let this guy go, we're all sick with his fat arse agent, and please stay away from all clients of Raiola even it's Haland

 

[RedRonaldo]

My guess is, he will run down his contract until next summer in order to max his salary offer from his next club

 

[royboy16]

I wont be sorry to see him gone and his cnut of an agent.

 

[golden_blunder]

It's hard to get mega excited about Pogba. It feels slightly awkward because he is among our most talented players, and it really should be exciting news.

Perhaps it is the inability for him to define a role for himself, and the excuses that get peddled out every time he goes on an inevitable run of inconsistency. Also known as blaming the manager or the other players.

Perhaps it is his agent, who is always going to have a vested interest in stirring the pot. Whether it be inflammatory comments at inopportune moments or general sniping, it doesn't do a lot for the feeling one has towards Pogba when he is allowed to do this with impunity - Paul Pogba chooses who represents him no matter how you dice it.

Perhaps it is the constant flirting with other clubs when he is an extremely well paid player at a massive football club that has really just needed him to show what a good player is game on game, season on season. If you do that and the club do not match your ambition there is likely to be greater sympathy for his position.

It is probably good news, overall. He's a very talented player and offers a set of skills that few have. He's also had some good showings this season. But somehow my apathy remains. It's probably not helped by the fact that with all that has happened it is very hard to dissect what his motivations and true feelings are in going for this contract.

Same here. I’m ambivalent to the news. Can’t help but think we are going to look back on his club career as being underwhelming

 

[duffer]

May i know what's wrong with that?

It's quite unusual to see that old fashioned spelling nowadays, that and it not being capitalised looks odd to some eyes.

 

[Hugh Jass]

Same here. I’m ambivalent to the news. Can’t help but think we are going to look back on his club career as being underwhelming

At present it is heading like that.

 

[100]

I think we're fecked with this one. Our offer has to contend with the enormous sum and wage he'll get by moving with no transfer fee and it being his last big contract, and arguable greater chance of success elsewhere.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Same here. I’m ambivalent to the news. Can’t help but think we are going to look back on his club career as being underwhelming

I think that’s a certainty.

 

[JPRouve]

Same here. I’m ambivalent to the news. Can’t help but think we are going to look back on his club career as being underwhelming

I think I get where you are coming from but at the same time, I can't help but think that fans have a distorted view on that topic because we don't appropriately contextualize performances and success in Football. For example you could reduce Zidane club career to 3 league titles and 1 champions league. Someone like Ronaldo won 2 league titles in Europe, 1 C2 and 1 C3.
Now of course one could say that it's underwhelming but the point is that it's not out of the ordinary for players that are without a doubt far superior to Pogba. One could also say that I'm only looking at silverware which could be fair if Pogba hadn't been consistently one of the better players for Juventus and United since age 19, he has been an important actor in his teams runs to CL and EL finals.

 

[duffer]

Same here. I’m ambivalent to the news. Can’t help but think we are going to look back on his club career as being underwhelming

4 league titles, 2 domestic cups and a Europa League so far from 9 full seasons as a pro.

Not too shabby! If he can get a couple more league trophies then that's a great club career.

With the Champs League there's always a bit of luck involved.

 

[golden_blunder]

4 league titles, 2 domestic cups and a Europa League so far from 9 full seasons as a pro.

Not too shabby! If he can get a couple more league trophies then that's a great club career.

With the Champs League there's always a bit of luck involved.

I think that speaks volumes about the team he was part of.
I just think that for all the hype, huge salary and the cost, he hasn’t consistently lived up to his hype. Maybe that’s on me for believing it, but what I see is a players who’s bloody hard to mould a team around and inconsistent performances ranging from wow to did Pogba play?

 

[golden_blunder]

I think I get where you are coming from but at the same time, I can't help but think that fans have a distorted view on that topic because we don't appropriately contextualize performances and success in Football. For example you could reduce Zidane club career to 3 league titles and 1 champions league. Someone like Ronaldo won 2 league titles in Europe, 1 C2 and 1 C3.
Now of course one could say that it's underwhelming but the point is that it's not out of the ordinary for players that are without a doubt far superior to Pogba. One could also say that I'm only looking at silverware which could be fair if Pogba hadn't been consistently one of the better players for Juventus and United since age 19, he has been an important actor in his teams runs to CL and EL finals.

Even if zidane won nothing, as a player you knew he was there and had a sense of danger every time he had the ball. Loved zidane, could watch him every day.
Im not evening looking at silverware for my point about pogba. It’s how consistent he is, how often he gives the ball away, how hard it is to find a mould that brings his consistency out. Maybe we will only ever see the best of him away from United?

 

[duffer]

I think that speaks volumes about the team he was part of.
I just think that for all the hype, huge salary and the cost, he hasn’t consistently lived up to his hype. Maybe that’s on me for believing it, but what I see is a players who’s bloody hard to mould a team around and inconsistent performances ranging from wow to did Pogba play?

I kinda agree. The huge fee bought crazy expectations.

He's obviously a fantastic player on his day but ever since you signed him I do see a lot of "we need to sign X to bring the best out of Pogba". You don't really get that with the truly great players.

 

[JPRouve]

I think that speaks volumes about the team he was part of.
I just think that for all the hype, huge salary and the cost, he hasn’t consistently lived up to his hype. Maybe that’s on me for believing it, but what I see is a players who’s bloody hard to mould a team around and inconsistent performances ranging from wow to did Pogba play?

Pogba is definitely not a player you build a team around and he is somewhat inconsistent. And the hype is rarely a good metric, there is too much emotion and hyperbole in them, players seldomly match it because the hype is rarely realistic. In a more trivial way, it's a bit like when people casually state that a player is going to play 10 years for their club or when people criticize Messi for not winning the CL since 2015 or even SAF and his 2 CLs.

 

[JPRouve]

Even if zidane won nothing, as a player you knew he was there and had a sense of danger every time he had the ball. Loved zidane, could watch him every day.
Im not evening looking at silverware for my point about pogba. It’s how consistent he is, how often he gives the ball away, how hard it is to find a mould that brings his consistency out. Maybe we will only ever see the best of him away from United?

But Zidane wasn't consistent, in fact Zidane was flatout accused of picking his games which is something that was even more believable because Zidane actually had the ability to take over a game and make opponents look silly. Pogba is just overrated, he is a very good player that has always been inconsistent within games and is fairly even over the course of a season, you can check it for yourself the caf as consistently put Pogba in our top three alongside De Gea in terms of MotM, the exception being 19/20 where he was mainly injured and this season where people seem to think that he has pretty good overall without being outstanding.

The way I see it, people have had unrealistic expectation from the beginning and for some reason people have also decided that they would downgrade his performances a few months after the fact, the most egregious example being the 18/19 season.

Sports fans have the bad habit to not admit when they are wrong about a player, particularly when they overrated him. Instead of admitting their honest mistake they will put the blame on the player or every else. Some of us called it in 2016, it was obvious that many people including pundits didn't watch Pogba regularly with many even claiming that he was the best all around midfielder in the World, I personally will stick with the idea that he is a Rakitic level of player.

 

[VP89]

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The Athletic and ESPN backing up Sky's story.

Whitwell has strong links with the club but he's covering himself with that tweet. I guess we can only take that we open talks and it can go either way. To that end the "update" on Pogba's situation is pretty immaterial.

 

[krentz]

It's quite unusual to see that old fashioned spelling nowadays, that and it not being capitalised looks odd to some eyes.

That's quite silly tbh, while i am an agnostic borderline atheist my family is moslem, but if some people think it's not ok to use moslem instead "muslim" should i change mosque to masjid or council to maj'lis so it sounds more woke?? Of course not taking a snipe at you @duffer

 

[Jaxa]

On one hand if he renews well good because you always want your best players staying at the club,

But ... if he leaves, even on a free i can't help feel I would feel relieved the Raiola mob is finally out of town for good hopefully, i think were all just drained at this point and absolute sick of the Pogba Circus, wether it's Raiola spouting shite or his twat of a brother opening his mouth, i am sick to death of hearing about it and you just know Pogba could put a stop to it all if he wanted to .. but for some reason he doesn't.

 

[Mindhunter]

He is too much of a distraction really and isn’t worth the high maintenance either. There was a point when he was our only marquee player but he hasn’t really produced that level of consistent performances to be considered an elite footballer.

His schtick is to just run around, play a few good passes, pop in with a goal or two while not taking any responsibility whatsoever. He wants to be an embellishment to the team, not the spine.

I would just let him go and cut our losses.

 

[duffer]

That's quite silly tbh, while i am an agnostic borderline atheist my family is moslem, but if some people think it's not ok to use moslem instead "muslim" should i change mosque to masjid or council to maj'lis so it sounds more woke?? Of course not taking a snipe at you @duffer

It's just unusual to see that old fashioned spelling nowadays, especially without capitalisation. That's all. The guy might have even thought you had miss-spelled it!

I just did a search for "moslem" on this site and other than this thread, it's been used once since October 2018.

 

[MrSingh2002]

Rashford Cavani Sancho
Bruno
New CDM Pogba
Shaw Maguire New CB AWB
De Gea
​

If Sancho's pretty much a done deal then we're only TWO signings off finally seeing a world class 11.

Matic, McTominay or Fred are not world class CDMs. McTominay can't pass, Fred can't pass, Matic hasn't got the legs. We need to sacrifice one or two of them to bring in a truly world class starter at CDM. I'd prefer the one to leave to be Fred who can't pass or shoot.

Akanji is the CB I'd like to replace Lindelof in our starting 11 as he has real pace that can help United and Maguire. There are so many CB candidates out there this season though so there are no excuses for the club to not bring in a much better CB than Lindelof.

IF we sign the world class CDM like Pogba plays with for France in Kante and we also get a top CB then I think Pogba signs a new deal either this summer or even next even though he would be a free agent.

The club needs to show ambition too. Our first 11 could match any 11 in world football. Let's see how ambitious the club are.

 

[alexthelion]

Pogba has given us around his best. It basically comes down to people still overrating him and also retrospectively underrating his actual performances.

For one good game in four (being generous).

 

[Maticmaker]

Im not evening looking at silverware for my point about pogba. It’s how consistent he is, how often he gives the ball away, how hard it is to find a mould that brings his consistency out. Maybe we will only ever see the best of him away from United?

Spot on, I would agree with your perspective on Pogba, although I would emphasis how often he loses the ball, rather than gives it away, his passing generally is good.

However Paul still tries, the 'beat you once...beat, you twice tricks' with drawbacks and/or a foot on the ball and a hip swivel, its so obvious its now become embarrassing when players take it off him. If you see him do it twice in one game, losing the ball in the process (and usually in the wrong areas) then if I were Ole I would be thinking... "Paul's having a bad day at the office", and give him a tug.

Paul is at times the managers worst nightmare, you don't know until he crosses the line what he's going to deliver and even then it can be up to 25 to 30 minutes before you can judge what sort of game he's going to have... a 'worldie', a 'nightmare' or a 'missing in action' performance.

This in retrospect is what I would consider about his career at United being underwhelming.

 

[wolvored]

If he signs he will want to be the highest paid player. Then Fernandes Rashford etc will want parity. feck him off as you can count on 2 hands how many games he has dominated. Show the club won't be open to ransom

 

[RUCK4444]

Even if zidane won nothing, as a player you knew he was there and had a sense of danger every time he had the ball. Loved zidane, could watch him every day.
Im not evening looking at silverware for my point about pogba. It’s how consistent he is, how often he gives the ball away, how hard it is to find a mould that brings his consistency out. Maybe we will only ever see the best of him away from United?

I see this a lot and I actually agree with it in a lot of ways... but WHY?

I think it's because we all know that if he moves to a top side in Europe he will be played in his best position (left of a three) OR partnered with a top level DM. We've done neither of those things here at United. So in summary what a feckin waste we've made on our investment (the biggest investment in a player we have ever made for that matter.)

 

[theklr]

I see this a lot and I actually agree with it in a lot of ways... but WHY?

I think it's because we all know that if he moves to a top side in Europe he will be played in his best position (left of a three) OR partnered with a top level DM. We've done neither of those things here at United. So in summary what a feckin waste we've made on our investment (the biggest investment in a player we have ever made for that matter.)

Well, that - and that most other leagues doesnt have so much high intensity presses as PL.

 

[RUCK4444]

Well, that - and that most other leagues doesnt have so much high intensity presses as PL.

I think the modern press is pretty prevalent in all the top leagues.

TBH in my opinion he's more than capable of being played in this league every week, he has the athleticism, strength, ability to play against a press, better than any midfielder we have in the team right now that's for sure.
He loses the ball whilst trying to retain possession in part due to playing in a team that are very weak at maintaining possession, we are very much a counter attacking side, he would benefit a lot from playing within a possession based side - which is where I think/hope Ole wants us to be eventually.

A player of his ability in a top side can keep the ball, get his head up and link with his teammates or send a long ball to the forwards (we all know he can do the latter) - where it falls apart, in part at least, is due to the lack of options and ability from his teammates in midfield.
He either plays it long instantly or if the forward pass is not on he then tries to hold onto possession which is where these turnovers are happening, I do feel if the option to link and work around the press were there in a lot of those circumstances (not all but a fair amount) then he would take that option.

That sounds like I'm apportioning all the blame for him losing the ball on his teammates, I'm not, I just think he's trying the right things but it's not always possible in this current United side. Which is why we would certainly see the best of him playing in a team like Madrid alongside the likes of Casemiro / Kroos / Modric. Right now he's trying to orchestrate with Scott and Fred who are both entirely as ordinary as their names imply.

 

[bond19821982]

Talks on going

 

[RUCK4444]

Talks on going

Links?

 

[duffer]

I reckon he'll either extend his contract or not extend it.