Possession

[goldenballs]

Or rather the lack of it. We give away possession so much and often so cheaply Which consequently puts us under pressure, leaving us to play most of the game in defensive mode. And let's be honest, we don't have the best defensive set up.

 

[Bastian]

Well, playing a centre back at left-back and having no striker does affect this. With a back four of Dalot, Varane, Martinez and Shaw it is a completely different prospect. The midfield, everyone being fit, is the main issue. We need a partner for Mainoo.

 

[Remember the geese]

50/50 against the crap sides and utterly destroyed by the top sides. It's nowhere near good enough.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Need a manager and recruitment / executive structure who focus heavily for the next 3 years on building the squad into a possession based on.

 

[DownRiver]

It’s so funny how it goes around the team like a viral disease, even Mainoo is losing possession more often than at the start.

But to be honest, our two best ball playing players are injured with Shaw and Martinez. Our recruitment does not focus on whether a player is good at ball retention and passing.

 

[Red Rash]

Which players do we have in that team today that are actually decent passers?

I'd stay Evans, Dalot, Mainoo are the only ones. Lindelof is ok but not from LB and Varane is fine if not spectacular.

 

[JeffFromHK]

Our players just don't make enough off the ball runs/sprints to help out the teammates in possession.
and some players like Case, Bruno, Rashford have zero comfort in ball retention who just love to randomly pass the ball away. We don't have enough players who can shield the ball, drive the ball through defenders, doing half turns, do little feints to make spaces for passing out, etc

 

[Mullet_Man]

Did Casemiro give the ball away as much when he was at Real?

 

[giggs-beckham]

Need a manager and recruitment / executive structure who focus heavily for the next 3 years on building the squad into a possession based on.

Exactly what I hope we do.

 

[Lee565]

Not buying the excuses about injuries and our player's passing ability when Burnley can keep the ball better than us and klopp can get a 2nd string team with youth players playing as a team.

 

[Redbandito]

Well, playing a centre back at left-back and having no striker does affect this. With a back four of Dalot, Varane, Martinez and Shaw it is a completely different prospect. The midfield, everyone being fit, is the main issue. We need a partner for Mainoo.

The midfield partner for Mainoo is actually not the main issue with our possession. Our main issue is that our best attackers are all one dimensional, counterattacking players. Rashford, Bruno and Garnacho provide nothing in possession. McTominay in the starting side is a massive drop off with possession as well. Hojlund, when healthy, gives us a point person who can hold up the play, link up with midfielders, or run the channels. We definitely miss him, Shaw and Licha. But even when they are all healthy, ETH is not trying to blow away the league with possession. 3 of our 4 attackers are always looking for a home run ball. This is why we often looked exposed in the midfield earlier in the season in games where we looked to control the ball. Because we’d throw everyone forward, give the ball away sloppily, and then we’d be wide open. Fans all scream at the defense or Casemiro, but the real issue is the cavalier way that we’d attack and give the ball away on high risk passes, or sloppy dribbling, leading to counters. In a better setup with more disciplined players, Dalot, Casemiro and Mainoo would all be better (which is saying a lot because Dalot and Mainoo have both had strong seasons).

 

[georgegroves]

Not buying the excuses about injuries and our player's passing ability when Burnley can keep the ball better than us and klopp can get a 2nd string team with youth players playing as a team.

Great point, i wish someone would say this to goldbridge. Everything now is on the players and the manager is absolved of any blame according to him. Luton and burnley both dominated possession against us and have worse players

 

[Based Adnan]

The biggest mistake ETH made was abandoning his principles to suit a group of underperforming players instead of making the wholesale changes that were required in order to make us a competent team in possession.

"I can't play like Ajax because of different players. I came here with my philosophy based on possession but also to combine it with the DNA of Manchester United and combine it with the players, the competencies and the characters of the players and then do you combine."

When your main players in the team are guys that need space to be effective and don't respect keeping hold of the ball like Bruno and Rashford, you can't control games. Signings like Casemiro don't help either.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Did Casemiro give the ball away as much when he was at Real?

Probably not, because he could just give it straight to Kroos/Modric to do something.

 

[DWelbz19]

Did Casemiro give the ball away as much when he was at Real?

No. His passing percentages were far more in line with what you’d expect — high 90s every season. He’s been given licence to just punt it around how he pleases here, because we are set up to play high and fast transition football.

He has the vision to see passes but the execution is what you’d expect from a player whose key strengths have been in breaking up play and winning duels.

 

[Scandi Red]

Probably more suited for this thread than the Mainoo one:

Today Ten Hag had 3 of his "own" central midfielders available + Mainoo who he promoted + Evans and Onana (and the experience of Varane). And still we can't string two passes together. That's honestly on Ten Hag.

Martinez and Shaw can't be THAT crucial.

 

[DWelbz19]

Probably more suited for this thread than the Mainoo one:

Today Ten Hag had 3 of his "own" central midfielders available + Mainoo who he promoted + Evans and Onana (and the experience of Varane). And still we can't string two passes together. That's honestly on Ten Hag.

Martinez and Shaw can't be THAT crucial.

Because they aren’t. They obviously improve us but it’s all down to the manager indulging the players and not bothering to drill the significance of building possession into them.

 

[mintyred]

Or rather the lack of it. We give away possession so much and often so cheaply Which consequently puts us under pressure, leaving us to play most of the game in defensive mode. And let's be honest, we don't have the best defensive set up.

Because of our set up and players. We don’t have the players to keep the ball and we don’t play a style that warrants keeping it.

 

[LDUred]

No exaggeration to say that we look like Prem-era Bolton Wanderers at times. Absolutely dire to watch and relying on a bit of magic from one or two gifted players.

To actually bring in a successful Dutch manager and have him play this brand of 'don't get beat' Mike Bassett football is so depressing.

 

[Lee565]

Does nobody remember the start of the season when we had martinez, Mount etc.. fit and we were still being dominated, I don't remember us being this poor under any of the post fergie managers on such a consistent basis, how can you blame the players ten hag has when even under ole had us looking stronger against better opposition with bloody mcfred in midfield

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Since we chased LVG no manager has succeeded to consistently get possesion football from the players on our roster. I no longer think it's a managerial problem. It's a player one.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Since we chased LVG no manager has succeeded to consistently get possesion football from the players on our roster. I no longer think it's a managerial problem. It's a player one.

Every manager has pretty much changed the entire starting 11 roster so I’m not buying that.
If LVG was managing this lot, they’d be just as boring but infinitely better in possession.

LVG side:

DDG
Matteo Mike Blind Rojo
Carrick Rooney Fellaini
Mata Martial Rashford

Mou:

DDG
Young Smalling Lindelöf Shaw
Matic Herrera Pogba
Rashford Lukaku Martial

Ole:

DDG
AWB Maguire Lindelöf Shaw
McTom Pogba Bruno
Greenwood Cavani Rashford

Only one starting player has survived to keep his starting spot since LVG, so unless we’re blaming it all on Rashford I’m calling codswallop. Managers haven’t prioritised it with their signings or their tactics. ETH signings appear to say he wants to play possession in the main, but he clearly can’t coach it at this level.

LVG could have DDG, Smalling, Fellaini & Rashford in his team and still dominate possession in almost every game.

 

[Hammondo]

We don't have a good possession culture at the club, something the new management needs to change.

High possession football requires more ability generally, and so we are forced into a 1 dimensional direct football style.

 

[VP89]

Probably more suited for this thread than the Mainoo one:

Today Ten Hag had 3 of his "own" central midfielders available + Mainoo who he promoted + Evans and Onana (and the experience of Varane). And still we can't string two passes together. That's honestly on Ten Hag.

Martinez and Shaw can't be THAT crucial.

Don't think I'd class Casemiro as being the player to implement his style, he wasn't the play given his legs are gone after a year.

That being said we passed the ball around more than Everton did so you can probably park the hyperbole.

 

[Look-a-Hill]

The fans won't accept possession football. String more than 4 passes* together and all you hear is them crying "attack attack attack".

* Granted, we've not managed to do that in a while so it may no longer be true.

 

[big_jeffstar]

Does nobody remember the start of the season when we had martinez, Mount etc.. fit and we were still being dominated, I don't remember us being this poor under any of the post fergie managers on such a consistent basis, how can you blame the players ten hag has when even under ole had us looking stronger against better opposition with bloody mcfred in midfield

Ole had the exact same problem, he said so in that interview, too many of our players are adept at counter attacking. But It all goes horribly wrong when they’re expected to work the ball around, Keep possession and actually create a goal.. he got the sack because they were so bad at it, and the media kept banging on about us not being allowed to play counter attack anymore for some reason.

 

[Hammondo]

Ole had the exact same problem, he said so in that interview, too many of our players are adept at counter attacking. But It all goes horribly wrong when they’re expected to work the ball around, Keep possession and actually create a goal.. he got the sack because they were so bad at it, and the media kept banging on about us not being allowed to play counter attack anymore for some reason.

I wish a manager had the balls to pick the youth or weaker players who can keep possession, and build from there. I hate the excuse we have to play counter attacking football because players x,y,z can't do anything better.

 

[Hammondo]

The fans won't accept possession football. String more than 4 passes* together and all you hear is them crying "attack attack attack".

* Granted, we've not managed to do that in a while so it may no longer be true.

Agreed, fan culture needs to change also.

 

[Ekeke]

The fans won't accept possession football. String more than 4 passes* together and all you hear is them crying "attack attack attack".

* Granted, we've not managed to do that in a while so it may no longer be true.

Possession doesnt mean you cant play nice forward passes. But if you achieve it by passing slowly sideways and backwards when you dont need to you're going to bore everyone to death. We do too much of that even when we dont have lots of the ball

 

[Rustyspider13]

It's honestly the worst part of watching United. I don't need United to be tiki taka masters but some competency and care should be expected from professionals. Too many passes are either overhit or underhit just enough that the receiver has to change direction/stretch/take an extra touch to control the ball in the way they want. It ruins the flow of attacks and invites pressure.

Ok, maybe our players are that bad. But what really grinds my gears is the lack of care about retaining possession. We'll have a free header and we'll head it towards no one in particular. We'll have a throw in our half, we'll take the throw, the receiver will just punt it long for Rashford to unsuccessfully chase. And I think we all know about our decision making for corners in the dying stages of a game. It's just not good enough for any PL team, let alone one that aims to be the best. Our LB cannot be the most technically competent player in the squad, we need them everywhere on the pitch. This has to be the focus for INEOS recruitment strategy.

 

[Hammondo]

Possession doesnt mean you cant play nice forward passes. But if you achieve it by passing slowly sideways and backwards when you dont need to you're going to bore everyone to death. We do too much of that even when we dont have lots of the ball

I think part of our cultures problem is understanding the importance of those passes. I remember the more recent Italy Vs England final, and they were doing exactly that, and we couldn't deal with it. Granted their attacking players were shockingly bad, but their general possession game was so far ahead of ours.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Every manager has pretty much changed the entire starting 11 roster so I’m not buying that.
If LVG was managing this lot, they’d be just as boring but infinitely better in possession.

LVG side:

DDG
Matteo Mike Blind Rojo
Carrick Rooney Fellaini
Mata Martial Rashford

Mou:

DDG
Young Smalling Lindelöf Shaw
Matic Herrera Pogba
Rashford Lukaku Martial

Ole:

DDG
AWB Maguire Lindelöf Shaw
McTom Pogba Bruno
Greenwood Cavani Rashford

Only one starting player has survived to keep his starting spot since LVG, so unless we’re blaming it all on Rashford I’m calling codswallop ...

Whilst I'm calling codswallop on THIS entire section of your post. Not only do you consistently have line ups wrong, you have players in positions specific manager's didn't use them in (LVG NEVER used Rashford out wide for starters, Shaw was NEVER Mourinho's first choice left back), have the WRONG reasons as to why United was boring upfront under LVG (lack of pace) then top it all you cobbled up literally the worst reason ANYONE could blame our poor possession keeping as team on (Rashford alone).

I'm not sure what point you thought you were making with that car crash of a post. Because it just didn't fly.....

 

[honirelandboy]

For the future of the club I'm happy with forward line of Garancho and Hojlund and need a new winger there this summer. For the midfield Mainoo and two new central midfielders this summer, How we not sign Mcallistter for 35 million I'll never know. Happy enough with defense with Dalot. Varane, Martnez, Shaw once they can stay fit. They are good enough to implement a high lines.

One we get a winger and two center midfielders sorted we can move on to world class players to sign,

 

[Hammondo]

Whilst I'm calling codswallop on THIS entire section of your post. Not only do you consistently have line ups wrong, you have players in positions specific manager's didn't use them in (LVG NEVER used Rashford out wide for starters, Shaw was NEVER Mourinho's first choice left back), have the WRONG reasons as to why United was boring upfront under LVG (lack of pace) then top it all you cobbled up literally the worst reason ANYONE could blame our poor possession keeping as team on (Rashford alone).

I'm not sure what point you thought you were making with that car crash of a post. Because it just didn't fly.....

While you are totally right, there is no way I'm hell Rashford can play possession football.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Whilst I'm calling codswallop on THIS entire section of your post. Not only do you consistently have line ups wrong, you have players in positions specific manager's didn't use them in (LVG NEVER used Rashford out wide for starters, Shaw was NEVER Mourinho's first choice left back), have the WRONG reasons as to why United was boring upfront under LVG (lack of pace) then top it all you cobbled up literally the worst reason ANYONE could blame our poor possession keeping as team on (Rashford alone).

I'm not sure what point you thought you were making with that car crash of a post. Because it just didn't fly.....

The point is that every manager since LVG has bought close to an entire new team of players.
So bit bizarre to blame it on the players, as if it is them, it’s about 30 players in that case.

So surely it’s either the coaching, else the recruitment?

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Personally I find huge swarthes of our fans unserious. They constantly moan about "possesio
N" yet when we actually HAD a manager obssessed with it they couldn't wait to stampede over themselves declaring it boring and yearning or him to get lost! I've seen the self same fans behind post like " City's style leaves me cold". They found Spain at world cup 2010 "a Bore" Barca too outside of Messi's alien ways.


The vast majority do not have the patience for what true game control based on possession football looks like. Nor the patience to watch it be built and mastered over a 2-3 year period as a style.

 

[OldSchoolManc]

United need an exorcist

 

[rimaldo]

i thought he looked decent until he got injured in that cup match against middlesborough.

 

[Rilz]

Personally I find huge swarthes of our fans unserious. They constantly moan about "possesio
N" yet when we actually HAD a manager obssessed with it they couldn't wait to stampede over themselves declaring it boring and yearning or him to get lost! I've seen the self same fans behind post like " City's style leaves me cold". They found Spain at world cup 2010 "a Bore" Barca too outside of Messi's alien ways.


The vast majority do not have the patience for what true game control based on possession football looks like. Nor the patience to watch it be built and mastered over a 2-3 year period as a style.

Why do you have to go from one extreme to the other? Can the answer not lie somewhere in the middle?

don’t think it’s too much to ask of a Man Utd team to merely resemble a premier league outfit with the ball at feet.

 

[Scandi Red]

That being said we passed the ball around more than Everton did so you can probably park the hyperbole.

Park your robotics at the door please.

We were awful at home against a shit side. 50/50 possession and they looked more dangerous from open play.