[kps88]

SAF didn't need to fix the midfield as long as he was winning trophies. He left enough in the bank for his successor to fix whatever he wanted. Not his fault Moyes decided to spend 30m on Fellaini as the solution to our midfield problem. It's also not his fault we had such a joke of a transfer window after he retired, summed up by our last minute panic bids for De Rossi and Kheidira. We also decided to turn down deals he supposedly had lined up like Garay; again, not his fault.

 

[Will Absolute]

That's my take on it too, that he honestly believed in Moyes as a true heir to the throne, and wanted him to build the new squad according to his own plan. Moyes were quick off the mark implementing huge changes in the coaching staff, sadly not that much on the ball in the transfer market (or maybe hampered by the board; who knows?)

If David Moyes could cite lack of money to excuse last year's performance, I believe we would have heard about it by now.

 

[United22]

SAF didn't need to fix the midfield as long as he was winning trophies. He left enough in the bank for his successor to fix whatever he wanted. Not his fault Moyes decided to spend 30m on Fellaini as the solution to our midfield problem. It's also not his fault we had such a joke of a transfer window after he retired, summed up by our last minute panic bids for De Rossi and Kheidira. We also decided to turn down deals he supposedly had lined up like Garay; again, not his fault.

Also Mata for £38m because in my opinion that was a horrible buy considering how bad the rest of the squad was. When you have 2 decent number 10's in Rooney/Kagawa (and a potential one in Januzaj), the last thing you do is go out and spunk it on another one when the rest of the squad is rotting in the defence/midfield areas.

 

[kps88]

Also Mata for £38m because in my opinion that was a horrible buy considering how bad the rest of the squad was. When you have 2 decent number 10's in Rooney/Kagawa (and a potential one in Januzaj), the last thing you do is go out and spunk it on another one when the rest of the squad is rotting in the defence/midfield areas.

Agreed. No top club can afford such disastrous transfer windows and still expect to be competing at the highest level.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Only idiots can blame Fergie! He won the league. You can't leave at a better time.

How is it his fault the team has some gaps over a year on?

He let standards slip. We were winning games but the football was problematic.

All these issues - inability to pass through the heart of teams, lack of ability in closed spaces, lack of team work and cohesion etc - were all growing in his latter years at the club. It's just that under him we were able to win despite those issues through things that worked for him and with a BIG part played by individual brilliance such as RVP dragging us to win after win despite awful team performances.

All these issues were very much prevailant under Fergie and he clearly let his eye off the ball and gave results precedence over performances to a ridiculous degree. Then he gave the reigns to a guy who not only couldn't solve those problems but magnified them and made them the norm, ripping the confidence of these players to pieces.

Now it's up to LVG to clean up the mess.

 

[ThanksBoss26]

Been back from the game for four hours now and still feeling miserable and that'll probably be reflected in this post.

Only one game gone so I probably shouldn't be panicking yet though a large bit of me certainly is. I've stated many times on here, van Gaal is the perfect man for this job after what he did at Barcelona and Bayern, laying the foundations of what came after for them. I've no doubt he'll do the same here but it's probably dawned on me today just what a rebuilding job this is.

I understand we had a vast number of injuries today, but how the squad has got to this state, I don't know. 'Not balanced' is the kind assessment of it. There are a number of players who I dearly hope leave the club in the next couple of weeks and I include in that ones who've done very good jobs for the club on the whole, so I feel bad about saying that about the likes of Hernandez. But it's become difficult to now see a way back for the likes of him, Nani etc and I hope the names who've been mentioned as being able to go recently all get moved on before the end of the window. Anderson, Fellaini, Zaha etc...not good enough to be at this club and where we aspire to get back to. I've seen nothing in Zaha to suggest he's any better than Lingard from our own academy. Yet the latter has had to wait until today to be given a first team debut. Ruthlessness is the key when it comes to departures over the next fortnight or so.

I had a feeling we'd get beat today when I saw the injuries had caught up with us. How we didn't see this coming weeks ago, particularly in defence, is just beyond me. I also expect us to go quite strongly in the market over the next couple of weeks. Arsenal's signing of Ozil after they lost to Villa on the Opening Day last year totally lifted their place. We need the same, but we need three or four players. Maybe that's the 'transfer muppet' in me speaking but believe me, I'm usually the one saying we don't need to spend as much as other people think. In this instance we do, although I do concede we've spent a lot in the last twelve months, generally well, with the exception of Fellaini, in my opinion. Molding the team out of them is proving difficult though.

We've got the right man in charge but this isn't a quick fix. However, we're at a crossroads and we talk a good game, now we've got to go and back it up. This club should never lose sight of what it is and it is a club that gives young players a chance, that'll continue under van Gaal as we saw today. But we say we're the biggest football club in the world, go and sign the likes of Benatia, Di Maria and Vidal and prove it. The outlay will be massive, completely unprecedented for us, but sell the deadwood to recoup a small amount back. Bring players of that quality in and we'd definitely make the Champions League this season as a bare minimum so we'd get lots of money from that, plus the basis of the team will be much stronger going forward, Transfer windows for the next couple of years would be more about tweaking then and we'd have no need to spend anything like this cash again.

The alternative to not strengthening properly now could have far worse consequences long term. For the owners it's a case of short term pain for potentially a hell of a lot of long term gain. I never, ever would want to see us lose any football match, but I hope today acts as a firm wake up call to those concerned, before we end up in even more of a hole.

It is only one game, but the issue can be nipped in the bud somewhat now before it becomes a potentially bigger problem.

 

[O'Sheady]

He let standards slip. We were winning games but the football was problematic.

All these issues - inability to pass through the heart of teams, lack of ability in closed spaces, lack of team work and cohesion etc - were all growing in his latter years at the club. It's just that under him we were able to win despite those issues through things that worked for him and with a BIG part played by individual brilliance such as RVP dragging us to win after win despite awful team performances.

All these issues were very much prevailant under Fergie and he clearly let his eye off the ball and gave results precedence over performances to a ridiculous degree. Then he gave the reigns to a guy who not only couldn't solve those problems but magnified them and made them the norm, ripping the confidence of these players to pieces.

Now it's up to LVG to clean up the mess.

Sadly i agree with all of this except the bolded bit and that is only nitpicking. Fergie was an amazing manager but I think he was posting it in a bit for the last while.

 

[kps88]

You'd have thought after the dross we were treated to last season people would appreciate the football we saw under SAF, even towards the end, a bit more.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

You'd have thought after the dross we were treated to last season people would appreciate the football we saw under SAF, even towards the end, a bit more.

It was less ugly, but ugly nonetheless. And appreciating the title SAF brought us has nothing to do with acknowledging his role in this current sides problems. These issues have been around for a good while now.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Sadly i agree with all of this except the bolded bit and that is only nitpicking. Fergie was an amazing manager but I think he was posting it in a bit for the last while.

I don't mean the term "team work" in the "team spirit" manner. More in a "team goals" way. We had formulas (knock it wide, get a cross in) and individual brilliance (RVP) towards the end of SAF's tenure. The whole "playing as a cohesive" unit wasn't there. We won despite all these things, which was great at the time, but not so good for the future.

 

[NJM78]

Been back from the game for four hours now and still feeling miserable and that'll probably be reflected in this post.

Only one game gone so I probably shouldn't be panicking yet though a large bit of me certainly is. I've stated many times on here, van Gaal is the perfect man for this job after what he did at Barcelona and Bayern, laying the foundations of what came after for them. I've no doubt he'll do the same here but it's probably dawned on me today just what a rebuilding job this is.

I understand we had a vast number of injuries today, but how the squad has got to this state, I don't know. 'Not balanced' is the kind assessment of it. There are a number of players who I dearly hope leave the club in the next couple of weeks and I include in that ones who've done very good jobs for the club on the whole, so I feel bad about saying that about the likes of Hernandez. But it's become difficult to now see a way back for the likes of him, Nani etc and I hope the names who've been mentioned as being able to go recently all get moved on before the end of the window. Anderson, Fellaini, Zaha etc...not good enough to be at this club and where we aspire to get back to. I've seen nothing in Zaha to suggest he's any better than Lingard from our own academy. Yet the latter has had to wait until today to be given a first team debut. Ruthlessness is the key when it comes to departures over the next fortnight or so.

I had a feeling we'd get beat today when I saw the injuries had caught up with us. How we didn't see this coming weeks ago, particularly in defence, is just beyond me. I also expect us to go quite strongly in the market over the next couple of weeks. Arsenal's signing of Ozil after they lost to Villa on the Opening Day last year totally lifted their place. We need the same, but we need three or four players. Maybe that's the 'transfer muppet' in me speaking but believe me, I'm usually the one saying we don't need to spend as much as other people think. In this instance we do, although I do concede we've spent a lot in the last twelve months, generally well, with the exception of Fellaini, in my opinion. Molding the team out of them is proving difficult though.

We've got the right man in charge but this isn't a quick fix. However, we're at a crossroads and we talk a good game, now we've got to go and back it up. This club should never lose sight of what it is and it is a club that gives young players a chance, that'll continue under van Gaal as we saw today. But we say we're the biggest football club in the world, go and sign the likes of Benatia, Di Maria and Vidal and prove it. The outlay will be massive, completely unprecedented for us, but sell the deadwood to recoup a small amount back. Bring players of that quality in and we'd definitely make the Champions League this season as a bare minimum so we'd get lots of money from that, plus the basis of the team will be much stronger going forward, Transfer windows for the next couple of years would be more about tweaking then and we'd have no need to spend anything like this cash again.

The alternative to not strengthening properly now could have far worse consequences long term. For the owners it's a case of short term pain for potentially a hell of a lot of long term gain. I never, ever would want to see us lose any football match, but I hope today acts as a firm wake up call to those concerned, before we end up in even more of a hole.

It is only one game, but the issue can be nipped in the bud somewhat now before it becomes a potentially bigger problem.

I agree with all of this. Did you notice one of the Glazers were there. They only really come to special games and seeing as this was meant to be the start of a good season under a top manager it couldn't have ended any worse.
Say we had just been beat by City or Chelsea then it would be less alarming but Swansea fecking City that's embarrassing.

I'm pretty sure Ed, van Gaal and Glazer had a serious chat after today's match. I'm expecting signings by the end of this week for sure.

 

[goin4glory]

Lot's of SAF sides played great attacking football but he was handcuffed in his final years by the financial restrictions placed by the parasite owners along with the emergence of the oil money clubs. Performance today was shocking and we've got a forward line with no pace or ability to beat a player with the exception of Adnan. Everyone wants the ball into feet and our attacks have no structure, to get the best out of Mata's passing ability you need wingers who can run in behind and beat a man but everytime he gets the ball Rooney is standing 5 yards away from him looking to playing a hollywood pass out wide. Di Maria needs bought immediately along with Vidal. Fellaini should be sold his elbow was blatant and lucky to not be sent off.

 

[JackXX]

Been back from the game for four hours now and still feeling miserable and that'll probably be reflected in this post.

Only one game gone so I probably shouldn't be panicking yet though a large bit of me certainly is. I've stated many times on here, van Gaal is the perfect man for this job after what he did at Barcelona and Bayern, laying the foundations of what came after for them. I've no doubt he'll do the same here but it's probably dawned on me today just what a rebuilding job this is.

I understand we had a vast number of injuries today, but how the squad has got to this state, I don't know. 'Not balanced' is the kind assessment of it. There are a number of players who I dearly hope leave the club in the next couple of weeks and I include in that ones who've done very good jobs for the club on the whole, so I feel bad about saying that about the likes of Hernandez. But it's become difficult to now see a way back for the likes of him, Nani etc and I hope the names who've been mentioned as being able to go recently all get moved on before the end of the window. Anderson, Fellaini, Zaha etc...not good enough to be at this club and where we aspire to get back to. I've seen nothing in Zaha to suggest he's any better than Lingard from our own academy. Yet the latter has had to wait until today to be given a first team debut. Ruthlessness is the key when it comes to departures over the next fortnight or so.

I had a feeling we'd get beat today when I saw the injuries had caught up with us. How we didn't see this coming weeks ago, particularly in defence, is just beyond me. I also expect us to go quite strongly in the market over the next couple of weeks. Arsenal's signing of Ozil after they lost to Villa on the Opening Day last year totally lifted their place. We need the same, but we need three or four players. Maybe that's the 'transfer muppet' in me speaking but believe me, I'm usually the one saying we don't need to spend as much as other people think. In this instance we do, although I do concede we've spent a lot in the last twelve months, generally well, with the exception of Fellaini, in my opinion. Molding the team out of them is proving difficult though.

We've got the right man in charge but this isn't a quick fix. However, we're at a crossroads and we talk a good game, now we've got to go and back it up. This club should never lose sight of what it is and it is a club that gives young players a chance, that'll continue under van Gaal as we saw today. But we say we're the biggest football club in the world, go and sign the likes of Benatia, Di Maria and Vidal and prove it. The outlay will be massive, completely unprecedented for us, but sell the deadwood to recoup a small amount back. Bring players of that quality in and we'd definitely make the Champions League this season as a bare minimum so we'd get lots of money from that, plus the basis of the team will be much stronger going forward, Transfer windows for the next couple of years would be more about tweaking then and we'd have no need to spend anything like this cash again.

The alternative to not strengthening properly now could have far worse consequences long term. For the owners it's a case of short term pain for potentially a hell of a lot of long term gain. I never, ever would want to see us lose any football match, but I hope today acts as a firm wake up call to those concerned, before we end up in even more of a hole.

It is only one game, but the issue can be nipped in the bud somewhat now before it becomes a potentially bigger problem.

Good post

 

[pseudo_canadian]

Adam from FullTimeDEVILS has absolutely nailed what we're all thinking.

Check this out...

He's spot on with everything he says. At the core of everything, our shit owners do not invest nearly enough into the club as they should and that is frankly unacceptable for a club like Manchester United. Having owners that actually fecking give two shits about the actual football and trying to produce the best possible teams would be nice thing to have.

The problems the club is facing is much deeper than the "squad being shit" I think.

 

[Seveneric]

It was less ugly, but ugly nonetheless. And appreciating the title SAF brought us has nothing to do with acknowledging his role in this current sides problems. These issues have been around for a good while now.

Fact is that he got the team to do what was most important...winning. There's no doubt that the midfield should have been strengthened and a defender brought in, but what's the point of blaming him now? He did his job and he's gone. Two managers with their destinies in their hands, have had three windows(well the third isn't over yet) to rectify that problem and neither has. It's not like it's such a huge issue to fix either, considering according to all accounts, Herrera and Strootman could have been brought in last summer, which will no doubt have had us in a much better position now.

 

[O'Sheady]

I don't mean the term "team work" in the "team spirit" manner. More in a "team goals" way. We had formulas (knock it wide, get a cross in) and individual brilliance (RVP) towards the end of SAF's tenure. The whole "playing as a cohesive" unit wasn't there. We won despite all these things, which was great at the time, but not so good for the future.

Yeh shouldn't have bothered nitpicking at all as I essentilly agree with you. What really annoys me is it needn't be as obvious as it is if he had bothered buying any sort of decent cm sometime in the last few years. Mistifying really.

 

[pseudo_canadian]

Been back from the game for four hours now and still feeling miserable and that'll probably be reflected in this post.

Only one game gone so I probably shouldn't be panicking yet though a large bit of me certainly is. I've stated many times on here, van Gaal is the perfect man for this job after what he did at Barcelona and Bayern, laying the foundations of what came after for them. I've no doubt he'll do the same here but it's probably dawned on me today just what a rebuilding job this is.

I understand we had a vast number of injuries today, but how the squad has got to this state, I don't know. 'Not balanced' is the kind assessment of it. There are a number of players who I dearly hope leave the club in the next couple of weeks and I include in that ones who've done very good jobs for the club on the whole, so I feel bad about saying that about the likes of Hernandez. But it's become difficult to now see a way back for the likes of him, Nani etc and I hope the names who've been mentioned as being able to go recently all get moved on before the end of the window. Anderson, Fellaini, Zaha etc...not good enough to be at this club and where we aspire to get back to. I've seen nothing in Zaha to suggest he's any better than Lingard from our own academy. Yet the latter has had to wait until today to be given a first team debut. Ruthlessness is the key when it comes to departures over the next fortnight or so.

I had a feeling we'd get beat today when I saw the injuries had caught up with us. How we didn't see this coming weeks ago, particularly in defence, is just beyond me. I also expect us to go quite strongly in the market over the next couple of weeks. Arsenal's signing of Ozil after they lost to Villa on the Opening Day last year totally lifted their place. We need the same, but we need three or four players. Maybe that's the 'transfer muppet' in me speaking but believe me, I'm usually the one saying we don't need to spend as much as other people think. In this instance we do, although I do concede we've spent a lot in the last twelve months, generally well, with the exception of Fellaini, in my opinion. Molding the team out of them is proving difficult though.

We've got the right man in charge but this isn't a quick fix. However, we're at a crossroads and we talk a good game, now we've got to go and back it up. This club should never lose sight of what it is and it is a club that gives young players a chance, that'll continue under van Gaal as we saw today. But we say we're the biggest football club in the world, go and sign the likes of Benatia, Di Maria and Vidal and prove it. The outlay will be massive, completely unprecedented for us, but sell the deadwood to recoup a small amount back. Bring players of that quality in and we'd definitely make the Champions League this season as a bare minimum so we'd get lots of money from that, plus the basis of the team will be much stronger going forward, Transfer windows for the next couple of years would be more about tweaking then and we'd have no need to spend anything like this cash again.

The alternative to not strengthening properly now could have far worse consequences long term. For the owners it's a case of short term pain for potentially a hell of a lot of long term gain. I never, ever would want to see us lose any football match, but I hope today acts as a firm wake up call to those concerned, before we end up in even more of a hole.

It is only one game, but the issue can be nipped in the bud somewhat now before it becomes a potentially bigger problem.

Good post.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Fact is that he got the team to do what was most important...winning. There's no doubt that the midfield should have been strengthened and a defender brought in, but what's the point of blaming him now? He did his job and he's gone. Two managers with their destinies in their hands, have had three windows(well the third isn't over yet) to rectify that problem and neither has. It's not like it's such a huge issue to fix either, considering according to all accounts, Herrera and Strootman could have been brought in last summer, which will no doubt have had us in a much better position now.

I'd argue that he didn't completely do his job. Yes, we won. We got over the line. But he shouldn't have let it get to the situation where we had such serious issues when he left. The point isn't to blame him. But it is to acknowledge that these issues didn't suddenly appear within days of Moyes taking charge. Moyes wasn't cut out for United's level, but he didn't magically make these issues appear. Sadly, he worsened those problems massively, and added many more problems, but I don't see anything wrong with acknowledging that the series of issues started with Fergie.

Also, whether it's a huge issue to fix, time will tell. If a brilliant coach like LVG takes time to weed out these issues, then they are indeed huge issues to fix.

 

[Barney]

Interested to see from a opposition fans perspective, how do you genuinely think we've bought so far this summer, general impression of the squad, and would you be surprised to see a top quality transfer happen before the end of the window?

I'm a massive fan of Shaw and I think Herrera is a good player too. Both signings addressed serious issues in your squad. I still think you're lacking a centre back and another midfielder. The signings that you make don't have to be top class, but I could see one coming in. Di Maria is a world class player that you've been linked with, but I don't think you need him at all. Unless you change your current system, all the signing of him would do is unbalance your squad even further IMO.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Yeh shouldn't have bothered nitpicking at all as I essentilly agree with you. What really annoys me is it needn't be as obvious as it is if he had bothered buying any sort of decent cm sometime in the last few years. Mistifying really.

It's bizarre really. Some of our work (or lack of it) in the transfer windows in recent times have been really fecking weird. Not buying a central midfielder for a thousand years, not buying an accomplished centre-back to replace two all-time United greats, buying Mata when we really really needed a central midfielder since we hadnt signed one for a thousand years, keeping faith in average players despite it getting to the point where any other top club would have replaced them long ago (our wingers) etc.

 

[MancunianAngels]

Obviously we need a new defender.

We could do with a new midfielder but that wasn't really the problem today.

The whole place needs a lift, from players to fans. Van Gaal helped in that area for a bit but he can't do it all.

Signing Di Maria could well be the answer, he might be what lifts everyone. A genuine world class player who could work with Mata, Rooney and RVP. Think of the lift RVP gave us after City winning in 2012? He would have a bigger impact.

Whether the Glazers would sanction such a move is another question all together...

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I'm a massive fan of Shaw and I think Herrera is a good player too. Both signings addressed serious issues in your squad. I still think you're lacking a centre back and another midfielder. The signings that you make don't have to be top class, but I could see one coming in. Di Maria is a world class player that you've been linked with, but I don't think you need him at all. Unless you change your current system, all the signing of him would do is unbalance your squad even further IMO.

Depends. If LVG wants to play a 433 eventually, and he's said that's his preferred formation, then I can't think of a midfielder I'd want as the attacking most of the midfield three more than Di Maria. Herrera can be the moderate of the three. I agree that we need a CB and holding midfielder more, but if we are to make that switch, and it's probably ineivtible, then Di Maria would be perfect for one key position in it. Not sure where that leaves Mata though.

 

[saivet]

I missed the game and just seen the score. Clearly, disappointed. I've not read anything anywhere about the game yet and it's quite long to go all through the thread. Was today a bad performance or one where we could consider ourselves as being unlucky? How did the 3-5-2 go and who were our stand out performers, for good or for bad reasons?

 

[77]

We don't have the type of players that can play the type of football that LvG wants to play.

 

[surf]

Depends. If LVG wants to play a 433 eventually, and he's said that's his preferred formation, then I can't think of a midfielder I'd want as the attacking most of the midfield three more than Di Maria. Herrera can be the moderate of the three. I agree that we need a CB and holding midfielder more, but if we are to make that switch, and it's probably ineivtible, then Di Maria would be perfect for one key position in it. Not sure where that leaves Mata though.

Di Maria is also excellent on either of the outside positions in the front 3. As will Januzaj be very soon, if he is not already. Both triffic players who could interchange during a game.

 

[BennyBlanco]

I missed the game and just seen the score. Clearly, disappointed. I've not read anything anywhere about the game yet and it's quite long to go all through the thread. Was today a bad performance or one where we could consider ourselves as being unlucky? How did the 3-5-2 go and who were our stand out performers, for good or for bad reasons?

352 was abandoned at half time, both their goals came from midfielders breaking into/on the edge of our box, we struggled to play through them, we barely had any real chances of note so can't exactly proclaim being unlucky, in the last 20mins it was Moyes time once more, lumping the ball aimlessly, pretty tragic,
On the plus side Blacket did relatively well and Januzaj looked different class when he initially came on, ho-hum.. Mata was invisible, Fletcher was woeful, between his passing and slowing our play down endlessly, oh and slow, crap passing was back in full force, LvG has his work cut out trying to turn some of these perennial underperformers into actual footballers.

 

[bishblaize]

I missed the game and just seen the score. Clearly, disappointed. I've not read anything anywhere about the game yet and it's quite long to go all through the thread. Was today a bad performance or one where we could consider ourselves as being unlucky? How did the 3-5-2 go and who were our stand out performers, for good or for bad reasons?

V poor first half. Okayish in terms of possession, but slow slow slow. They scored on the counter attack with a shot from a late midfield runner that none of our midfielders were remotely near. Not quite smash and grab as they were comfortable defending, but about their only attack of note.

Second half we switched to 4-4-1-1 with Mata behind Rooney, which was a surprise. Januzaj came on 1st half for the injured Lingard, so he played wide right, Nani wide left, Young left back, Jones right back. Got a bit more tempo second half, equalised with a decent goal from a corner.

Then we just went flat again and they scored with about 15 to go after a quick free kick which led to a counter attack, and another midfield runner not being picked up scored the winner.

After they scored, we did basically nothing. horribly similar to last season.

I would say the only two plus points were Januzaj, who was (relatively speaking) excellent when he came on, and Tyler Blackett on his debut, who was easily as good as Jones & Smalling (that might sound like faint praise, its not meant to be).

Rooney worked hard but didn't really influence the game, Mata was anonymous. Hernandez taken off at half time. Fletcher had a poor game sadly after his promising pre-season. And LVG strangely took off Herrera (who was the better of the two) and put on Fellaini, who looked like he might have a decent game, but then was horribly exposed for their second goal.

So, all in all, little different from last season.

People will probably blame the 3-5-2, but tbh I thought we had better structure in the first half. It was just horribly slow. I think he changed it because the team was so nervous, but then second half we just had no shape.

Also, you may find a thread in here pointing this out, but a bird shit in Ashely Young's mouth, which was truly one of the oddest things Ive ever seen in a match. and I saw lightening strike old trafford once, but this was odder.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Di Maria is also excellent on either of the outside positions in the front 3. As will Januzaj be very soon, if he is not already. Both triffic players who could interchange during a game.

He's good in that position but in a central that three, he's a proper elite level player. He was sensational last season for Madrid whereas prior to that, he was "very good". Infact, I remember people comparing the Di Maria the winger to Nani the winger as being at the same level. The Di Maria we saw last season is on another level altogether to that. If we sign him, I really hope that's the role we have in mind for him. Can't think of any other midfielder around of that level of that nature.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

We don't have the type of players that can play the type of football that LvG wants to play.

That's the problem. It's like he's trying to make do and mend. Instead of buying the players to fit his system.

 

[Silverman]

Been back from the game for four hours now and still feeling miserable and that'll probably be reflected in this post.

Only one game gone so I probably shouldn't be panicking yet though a large bit of me certainly is. I've stated many times on here, van Gaal is the perfect man for this job after what he did at Barcelona and Bayern, laying the foundations of what came after for them. I've no doubt he'll do the same here but it's probably dawned on me today just what a rebuilding job this is.

I understand we had a vast number of injuries today, but how the squad has got to this state, I don't know. 'Not balanced' is the kind assessment of it. There are a number of players who I dearly hope leave the club in the next couple of weeks and I include in that ones who've done very good jobs for the club on the whole, so I feel bad about saying that about the likes of Hernandez. But it's become difficult to now see a way back for the likes of him, Nani etc and I hope the names who've been mentioned as being able to go recently all get moved on before the end of the window. Anderson, Fellaini, Zaha etc...not good enough to be at this club and where we aspire to get back to. I've seen nothing in Zaha to suggest he's any better than Lingard from our own academy. Yet the latter has had to wait until today to be given a first team debut. Ruthlessness is the key when it comes to departures over the next fortnight or so.

I had a feeling we'd get beat today when I saw the injuries had caught up with us. How we didn't see this coming weeks ago, particularly in defence, is just beyond me. I also expect us to go quite strongly in the market over the next couple of weeks. Arsenal's signing of Ozil after they lost to Villa on the Opening Day last year totally lifted their place. We need the same, but we need three or four players. Maybe that's the 'transfer muppet' in me speaking but believe me, I'm usually the one saying we don't need to spend as much as other people think. In this instance we do, although I do concede we've spent a lot in the last twelve months, generally well, with the exception of Fellaini, in my opinion. Molding the team out of them is proving difficult though.

We've got the right man in charge but this isn't a quick fix. However, we're at a crossroads and we talk a good game, now we've got to go and back it up. This club should never lose sight of what it is and it is a club that gives young players a chance, that'll continue under van Gaal as we saw today. But we say we're the biggest football club in the world, go and sign the likes of Benatia, Di Maria and Vidal and prove it. The outlay will be massive, completely unprecedented for us, but sell the deadwood to recoup a small amount back. Bring players of that quality in and we'd definitely make the Champions League this season as a bare minimum so we'd get lots of money from that, plus the basis of the team will be much stronger going forward, Transfer windows for the next couple of years would be more about tweaking then and we'd have no need to spend anything like this cash again.

The alternative to not strengthening properly now could have far worse consequences long term. For the owners it's a case of short term pain for potentially a hell of a lot of long term gain. I never, ever would want to see us lose any football match, but I hope today acts as a firm wake up call to those concerned, before we end up in even more of a hole.

It is only one game, but the issue can be nipped in the bud somewhat now before it becomes a potentially bigger problem.

Agree with a lot here.

One thing I think we should have learned from today is that Adnan Januzaj should be given some sort of starting place. He is quick, dynamic and creative and I think one part of the puzzle.

 

[O'Sheady]

Depends. If LVG wants to play a 433 eventually, and he's said that's his preferred formation, then I can't think of a midfielder I'd want as the attacking most of the midfield three more than Di Maria. Herrera can be the moderate of the three. I agree that we need a CB and holding midfielder more, but if we are to make that switch, and it's probably ineivtible, then Di Maria would be perfect for one key position in it. Not sure where that leaves Mata though.

Would leave him fighting for his place in the team, we need to get to a position where we have top of the range players coming off the bench with something to prove. LVG likes to change formations at the drop of a hat nowadays anyway so fitting him in if he is playing well enough shouldn't be an issue. Still though Vidal and a CB would my first choices for new aqquisitions.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Would leave him fighting for his place in the team, we need to get to a position where we have top of the range players coming off the bench with something to prove. LVG likes to change formations at the drop of a hat nowadays anyway so fitting him in if he is playing well enough shouldn't be an issue. Still though Vidal and a CB would my first choices for new aqquisitions.

Oh I'd have Di Maria at the expense of Mata anyday. He's got as much skill albiet with less end product, but has a mini Park Ji Sung inside of him.

They're actually very different players. Mata's more of a forward whereas Di Maria is definitely a midfielder.

 

[Oo0AahCantona]

Vidal------Herrera
Mata
Januzaj---------------Di Maria
Rooney/RVP
​

We are 2 players away from that.

​

 

[Igor Drefljak]

Most people will ignore this, as it may be a long rant, but anyway.

First of all, Van Gaal plays 352, like he did with Holland, because defensively we was not good enough.
What this does is, put extra bodies defensively, and takes away an offensive threat. Some people seem to think that because it enables Mata, Rooney and RVP to play in the same team, it is an attacking formation.

Basically it means we play with less attacking threat, and gives us less options. At least with Holland, he had the pace of Robben to cause trouble, but at United we do not have this.
We need to play 433, or 4231, which ever way you look at it, the problem is, why don't we? Because Van Gaal deems us not good enough defensively to do that.

We lack pace up top to play the 352 effectively. Our only pacey plays today where Lindgard and Young, playing wing back, which means they join the attack later than they normally would in a 433, 4231, 442 etc.
Herrera, Fletcher, Mata, Rooney and RVP do not offer any pace at all, and it is clear as day.

Look at our squad today. Blackett, Young, Lingard, Fletcher, Hernandez. That is 5 players, 5 Players who are either played out of position or expected to leave the club because they are not deemed good enough for this team. (Ok, Fletcher, is neither, but has massive injury / fitness problems).

We need at least 1 very good defender, 2, if we decide on the 352 (Which even Van Gaal gave up on after 45 minutes, at home to Swansea), a very good central midfielder and a winger, and that is if we want to get into a 4th spot position at the end of the season.

Our big problem is, the lack of the right players. When we bought Mata, great, a very good signing, but not really needed. A Reus, Di Maria, Sanchez or a Vidal, Fabregas or Kroos was more needed. (Yes, they may not have wanted to come), but they would have been a better purchase than Mata, for what we needed as a team.
Without Mata, Rooney and RVP fit in the team fine, and if that money was spent better elsewhere, it would have benefited the squad better. We bought Mata, and he is a very good player, but it does cause a problem between Rooney and RVP.

Anyway, I've been out drinking all day with a City and Liverpool fan , and I have rambled on, I have expressed some of my feelings, so there you go

PS, We need pace

 

[#07]

V poor first half. Okayish in terms of possession, but slow slow slow. They scored on the counter attack with a shot from a late midfield runner that none of our midfielders were remotely near. Not quite smash and grab as they were comfortable defending, but about their only attack of note.

Second half we switched to 4-4-1-1 with Mata behind Rooney, which was a surprise. Januzaj came on 1st half for the injured Lingard, so he played wide right, Nani wide left, Young left back, Jones right back. Got a bit more tempo second half, equalised with a decent goal from a corner.

Then we just went flat again and they scored with about 15 to go after a quick free kick which led to a counter attack, and another midfield runner not being picked up scored the winner.

After they scored, we did basically nothing. horribly similar to last season.

I would say the only two plus points were Januzaj, who was (relatively speaking) excellent when he came on, and Tyler Blackett on his debut, who was easily as good as Jones & Smalling (that might sound like faint praise, its not meant to be).

Rooney worked hard but didn't really influence the game, Mata was anonymous. Hernandez taken off at half time. Fletcher had a poor game sadly after his promising pre-season. And LVG strangely took off Herrera (who was the better of the two) and put on Fellaini, who looked like he might have a decent game, but then was horribly exposed for their second goal.

So, all in all, little different from last season.

People will probably blame the 3-5-2, but tbh I thought we had better structure in the first half. It was just horribly slow. I think he changed it because the team was so nervous, but then second half we just had no shape.

Also, you may find a thread in here pointing this out, but a bird shit in Ashely Young's mouth, which was truly one of the oddest things Ive ever seen in a match. and I saw lightening strike old trafford once, but this was odder.

Lots to agree with here. Like to point out that the moment we went flat was the moment we replaced Herrera with Fellaini.

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[LR7]

Silly mistakes cost you at the back, and Fellaini should have came on for Fletcher. Mata needs to be more involved instead of STILL playing it out wide at every given opportunity, although Herrera was trying to play through balls to them on occasions. The long balls to the strikers need to be cut down too.

Probably a fair assessment. I also think that when we get some of our injured players back we will play a lot better so I'm not panicking yet.

 

[Sarni]

This is the worst I have felt as United fan in ages. Last season was a write off and there was no excitement for me for the vast majority of it and with a new manager in charge my excitement levels for the new season had hit a very high level prior to this game. It is basically gone now, I don't think we will be challenging for anything and it will be another painful season I expect. The lack of fight is especially painful, this team does not mind losing anymore after last season.

 

[Amir]

Also Mata for £38m because in my opinion that was a horrible buy considering how bad the rest of the squad was. When you have 2 decent number 10's in Rooney/Kagawa (and a potential one in Januzaj), the last thing you do is go out and spunk it on another one when the rest of the squad is rotting in the defence/midfield areas.

It is rather funny when you then see Van Gaal arrived and announces he has too many number 10s.

 

[Amir]

You'd have thought after the dross we were treated to last season people would appreciate the football we saw under SAF, even towards the end, a bit more.

It was better but not good enough. And settling for it was the root of the problems we are facing now....

 

[WR10]

A few things...
The back 4 have been pathetically incapable of defending by themselves for the past 4/5 seasons and I've been saying it every year, but Fergies success has masked that problem. Our players are deceptively average/poor and everyone sees that except for the club themselves, maybe it's because they are all equally average that the effort in training they put make them relatively good to each other, yet still shit to other teams? Feck I don't know. Once again, that's never bothered us because, well, Fergie. Apart from that vent, we had almost half our 'starting 11' out today, so until we get a solid starting 11 out and playing, we can't make any judgements on Van Gaals perception of the squad, seeing as half of his work is yet to be seen in action.