[Jacko21]

We turned up today just thinking we'd walk to a victory.

It's happened to a few times this season too... vs. Huddersfield, as soon as Leicester went down to 10-men, Southampton at Home... and now this game, sometimes it seems are players just think they'll waltz their way to a win and then get caught cold by a team who are way more up for it then we expect.

Leicester was still the worst (I genuinely think that a lot of our players thought that the other team weren't allowed to score or do anything once they got a red card) but this wasn't far off. Pretty disgraceful performance really.

To be honest, I think the opposite. I think some of our players go into away games fearing the worst - fearing that they'll come up against a team that they can't match for desire and don't know how to stem the tide. It'll be the same at Selhurst Park in a few weeks - hostile atmosphere, fans will sense a scalp and our players will have that in the back of their minds. There was a slight bullishness about us when we were in with a shout of winning the league, but that has long since disappeared.

The drop in our performances in the league since the derby defeat has been really alarming and even Mourinho looks to be running short on ideas as to how to refocus and motivate the players so that we don't concede 2nd place, or worse our CL spot.

Short of a brilliant CL campaign, I think our players know that they're in for a bruising few months that'll include a game at the Etihad that could see a guard of honour or City confirmed as champions, a parade in Manchester and wall to wall media coverage. I'd like to think it'd make our players stronger, but in reality, I can't be sure anymore.

 

[ijc]

The state of some of the people in this thread!!!

God help some of them if they had been a supporter in the Big Ron days and before - "Feck this team" - good grief!!

Football comes in cycles, seeing some of the vitriol against our OWN TEAM in this thread is shocking tbf - we can't win all the time.

I see your point. But it's OK to demand standards.

If you work in a "garage company" factory which opened 20 years ago and today it's one of the leading factories in the country, you don't expect anything less than world class just because 20 years ago you were mediocre. I'm sorry but these arguments of "imagine if we saw Big Ron's team etc etc" don't make any sense.

I know we were still one of the biggest clubs in England at that time, but now it's half a decade since we won the league. Admittedly, no club has retained it since that time. But in this day and age, winning is everything and to be honest, in most cases, the club who plays the best football wins it all and we are very far away from the being the club who plays the best football.

 

[Havak]

Took a bit to think about it and have to comment on Pogba first. I just can't see how he was on the pitch so long, he definitely wasn't anywhere near 100% fit. It was like playing the game with 10 men. It's the second time we've conceded from a set-piece because an injured player couldn't challenge for the ball. Smalling and Jones had their fair share of bad moments, but in terms of mistakes it wasn't as bad as people make out. Sure, Smalling should've given away a penalty and the dive was atrocious, but we should've defended the free kick far better anyway. Matic was OK, but he again he was basically playing midfield on his own because Pogba couldn't do anything. Made a great pass for Martial who should've scored, and should've really scored at least one more. We're too wasteful in the final third, with Sanchez and Lukaku both missing good chances as well. The latter two were probably the only players who can come out of the game thinking they did well, but they didn't score so it's still arguable that they didn't do well enough either. We were also a bit unfortunate with the injuries to Rashford and Herrera. I do think they could've made a difference, though we can't keep hammering on about things like that. Bottom line is we weren't good enough and Newcastle were up for it. Also looks like they've found a gem in their new keeper if he can perform like that more often than not.

 

[Dr Fink]

The lack of intensity is the biggest thing. The commentators talk of "Manchester United's traditional late surge".............it's gone. There is no late surge. As soon as the Geordies scored, I knew we'd lost. The stats proved it, when we go behind we generally lose. No fight in the team, something SAF brought and instilled in his players - it's not over until the final whistle.

Alexis has brought urgency - his quick turn of pace is electric, coupled with his low C of G and strength make him a great addition. Rom had a good game, how he should play every week. Martial - I'd have bet my house on him scoring with the one on one. Jones and Smalling - OK, for me, barring the odd gaff. Matic looks to be coasting through games, his languid style makes it look worse. Pogba - doesn't seem to be putting the effort in. Souness' description summed him up. More fool Mourinho for starting him.

We are beginning to look like a 1980s United team: lots of superstars that turn up and turn it on more often than not, but as a whole, not gelling and playing as a team. No team ethic.

I'm really disappointed with the Spurs and now the Newcastle games, but actually not that surprised. The personnel 1 - 11 are not right and neither is the formation. All the hype over finishing in the top four..........we are a poor also-ran team at the moment. Disappointing.

 

[DdeGoat]

I don't want to start a new thread on this but incidentally our slump in forms this season have come in the period after we have parked the bus and played pussy football against one of our top 4 rivals.

First one:

14 Oct Premier League Liverpool A 12:30 0 - 0
21 Oct Premier League Huddersfield Town A 15:00 1 - 2

Second one:

10 Dec Premier League Manchester City 1 - 2
13 Dec Premier League Bournemouth 1 - 0
17 Dec Premier League West Brom Albion A 14:15 2 - 1
23 Dec Premier League Leicester City A 19:45 2 - 2
26 Dec Premier League Burnley 2 - 2
30 Dec Premier League Southampton 0 - 0

Third one:

31 Jan Premier League Tottenham Hotspur A 20:00 0 - 2
03 Feb Premier League Huddersfield Town 2 - 0
11 Feb Premier League Newcastle United A 14:15 0 - 1

That is 4 losses and 4 draws from a total of 5 losses and 5 draws this season in the league. We have conceded 12 goals out of 19 this season in these 12 games & have scored only 11 goals out of 51 in these 12. And if I remember correctly, our overall play and creativity also suffers right after these losses. All have been pretty demoralizing defeats/draws - Liverpool/Hudd in the period when we were flying high after we started the league like a house on fire. The City defeat & the preceding slump after we had a chance to close the gap on them to 8 points and open up the league. The Spurs defeat after all the Sanchez euphoria.

Is it that our players find it hard to pick up after those mindbogglingly inept & stifling displays where we play 6 at the back and ask our full backs to play as additional CB's and our wide men to play as auxiliary FB's?

Or I am reading too much into it?

 

[caid]

I dont get why people are complaining about a 2 man midfield
We were playing a 3 man midfield. Lingard was level with Pogba the whole match. (and pogba didn't magically become a much better player)

 

[Ban]

I don't want to start a new thread on this but incidentally our slump in forms this season have come in the period after we have parked the bus and played pussy football against one of our top 4 rivals.

First one:

14 Oct Premier League Liverpool A 12:30 0 - 0
21 Oct Premier League Huddersfield Town A 15:00 1 - 2

Second one:

10 Dec Premier League Manchester City 1 - 2
13 Dec Premier League Bournemouth 1 - 0
17 Dec Premier League West Brom Albion A 14:15 2 - 1
23 Dec Premier League Leicester City A 19:45 2 - 2
26 Dec Premier League Burnley 2 - 2
30 Dec Premier League Southampton 0 - 0

Third one:

31 Jan Premier League Tottenham Hotspur A 20:00 0 - 2
03 Feb Premier League Huddersfield Town 2 - 0
11 Feb Premier League Newcastle United A 14:15 0 - 1

That is 4 losses and 4 draws from a total of 5 losses and 5 draws this season in the league. We have conceded 12 goals out of 19 this season in these 12 games & have scored only 11 goals out of 51 in these 12. And if I remember correctly, our overall play and creativity also suffers right after these losses. All have been pretty demoralizing defeats/draws - Liverpool/Hudd in the period when we were flying high after we started the league like a house on fire. The City defeat & the preceding slump after we had a chance to close the gap on them to 8 points and open up the league. The Spurs defeat after all the Sanchez euphoria.

Is it that our players find it hard to pick up after those mindbogglingly inept & stifling displays where we play 6 at the back and ask our full backs to play as additional CB's and our wide men to play as auxiliary FB's?

Or I am reading too much into it?

You're reading too much into it and the last line is made up,one about 6 at the back. I guess our mids play as goalkeepers?

 

[unitedforeveral]

Tine for Mourinho to go...i have been saying this for weeks that his grasp of tactics and team selection is at best inept.

true that!

 

[Cliche Guevara]

Am I going mental here? We absolutely were not playing a two man midfield in this game. It just makes me hate this Pogba can’t play in a 2 rubbish even more.

Up until Newcastle scored we were completely in control of the game and should have been 2-0 up. Had we been then the game was over.

There was nothing wrong with this team, formation or tactics - other than I accept the defence sits too deep which makes it harder going forward.

Pogba was clearly injured and Martial just too passive. He doesn’t show any urgency to get into the box and score. Lingard did absolutely nothing all game.

Clearly Jose is trying to build a team and teach them how to improve and play in it. He’s not going to be changing any time soon, and that’s not stubbornness. Too many players are immature and need baby-sitting.

 

[DdeGoat]

You're reading too much into it and the last line is made up,one about 6 at the back. I guess our mids play as goalkeepers?

May be one day you'll get time off from making silly and sarcastic comments with each post and watch a Manchester United football game and realize what I am talking about.

Until then, bye!

 

[Inigo Montoya]

T

I dont get why people are complaining about a 2 man midfield
We were playing a 3 man midfield. Lingard was level with Pogba the whole match. (and pogba didn't magically become a much better player)

The point is that we needed better protection in front of the back 4. Lingard doesn't provide that. Matic has gone right off the boil of late in these games and it was apparent that Pogba was dropping too deep

 

[Ban]

May be one day you'll get time off from making silly and sarcastic comments with each post and watch a Manchester United football game and realize what I am talking about.

Until then, bye!

I have the same advice for you, watch United games without making things up. It isn't sarcastic.
Bye, nice to talk to you.

 

[Cliche Guevara]

T

The point is that we needed better protection in front of the back 4. Lingard doesn't provide that. Matic has gone right off the boil of late in these games and it was apparent that Pogba was dropping too deep

How did we need better protection in front of the back 4?

Matic played fine and Newcastle barely threatened. Either Pogba was injured or he had a serious attitude problem.

Lingard was poor yesterday but people keep changing the goalpost and complaining about something different every time a game doesn’t go our way.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

How did we need better protection in front of the back 4?

Matic played fine and Newcastle barely threatened. Either Pogba was injured or he had a serious attitude problem.

Lingard was poor yesterday but people keep changing the goalpost and complaining about something different every time a game doesn’t go our way.

Pogba was injured or had a niggle but it was apparent he wasn't 100%.
I wasn't complaining about Lingard but we were allowing Newcastle with Shelvey in particular to dominate

 

[Inigo Montoya]

How did we need better protection in front of the back 4?

Matic played fine and Newcastle barely threatened. Either Pogba was injured or he had a serious attitude problem.

Lingard was poor yesterday but people keep changing the goalpost and complaining about something different every time a game doesn’t go our way.

PS: Barely? We had to make a decent save with a few minutes on the clock

 

[Cliche Guevara]

PS: Barely? We had to make a decent save with a few minutes on the clock

And then nothing until their goal in 65 minutes.

Shelvey wasn’t dominating at all, he was destroying in a defensive capacity. In fact he gave the kind of performance Pogba should be learning from.

 

[caid]

T

The point is that we needed better protection in front of the back 4. Lingard doesn't provide that. Matic has gone right off the boil of late in these games and it was apparent that Pogba was dropping too deep

I'm inclined to agree with:

How did we need better protection in front of the back 4?

Matic played fine and Newcastle barely threatened. Either Pogba was injured or he had a serious attitude problem.

Lingard was poor yesterday but people keep changing the goalpost and complaining about something different every time a game doesn’t go our way.

People complain about the same thing everytime though. Their own little pet subject.
A lack of midfield control didn't cost us yesterday. We did feck all with the possession we had.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

And then nothing until their goal in 65 minutes.

Shelvey wasn’t dominating at all, he was destroying in a defensive capacity. In fact he gave the kind of performance Pogba should be learning from.

Love how most are forgetting how Smallling wet himself and should have given away a penalty, that was pure luck that the referee made a bad decision.

 

[Cliche Guevara]

Love how most are forgetting how Smallling wet himself and should have given away a penalty, that was pure luck that the referee made a bad decision.

That’s not going to be Jose’s fault is it? Let’s keep some perspective here. Newcastle weren’t troubling us.

 

[caid]

Love how most are forgetting how Smallling wet himself and should have given away a penalty, that was pure luck that the referee made a bad decision.

We gave away 3 or 4 chances in total. Its hardly a disaster. We conceded from a fk just past the half way line. Your going to be giving away chances like that every game.
Smalling giving away a penalty was a massive cock up, Gayle (?) was hardly in that dangerous a position. Our formation and tactics aren't that relevant to it imo. Making massive defensive feck ups was.

 

[unitedforeveral]

I wonder what Jose says to his players before they go out because most of our players start so very slowly and by when we get a hang of the game, we're already going sideways to control the game. If pressed a little in defense, we go back to the keeper and he lets it fly over our midfield to Lukaku, who finds it ever so difficult to bring it down. Our short passes are slow, we never pass and move and even if we do we do not expect a pass to come back. The players are not always waiting for a pass when without the ball and also we try very less to keep our position on the field.

In the last few years, i have found our formation and tactics change so much that we have forgotten our identity. We cannot move forward and create at OT, let alone any other ground. It breaks my heart after watching so many years of United going to places to win and scare our opponents. We always had mistakes in us but we intimidated more and got out opponents to commit more mistakes than we did and scored more than our opponents.

It's a huge mentality issue and i think it will take a while for us to be a giant again.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

I wonder what Jose says to his players before they go out because most of our players start so very slowly and by when we get a hang of the game, we're already going sideways to control the game. If pressed a little in defense, we go back to the keeper and he lets it fly over our midfield to Lukaku, who finds it ever so difficult to bring it down. Our short passes are slow, we never pass and move and even if we do we do not expect a pass to come back. The players are not always waiting for a pass when without the ball and also we try very less to keep our position on the field.

In the last few years, i have found our formation and tactics change so much that we have forgotten our identity. We cannot move forward and create at OT, let alone any other ground. It breaks my heart after watching so many years of United going to places to win and scare our opponents. We always had mistakes in us but we intimidated more and got out opponents to commit more mistakes than we did and scored more than our opponents.

It's a huge mentality issue and i think it will take a while for us to be a giant again.

This does not make good reading really about how we came out for the game.

12:36
United accused of going missing
Newcastle defender Jamaal Lascelle has accused United of not turning up at St James’ Park and he wasn’t wrong.

Speaking after the win he said:

“Man United have some world class players but it seemed like we just wanted it a lot more.

“With the bigger teams, teams like us will always want it a lot more and their quality wasn’t enough to beat us and our hard work and endeavour was enough to get us over the line.

“They have got some great players but I don’t think Man Utd turned up today.

“We have played against Arsenal and Man City and you can really see the quality and one mistake or a lack of concentration and a goal will go in.

“I don’t think they were at it from the start of the game - a lot of their players went missing.”

 

[manichester]

Every game I look forward to and within 10 minutes see we play the same crab football as the week before. We used to start games quickly and put the opponents under pressure sadly we don't have a clue.

 

[unitedforeveral]

NOT TUR

This does not make good reading really about how we came out for the game.

12:36
United accused of going missing
Newcastle defender Jamaal Lascelle has accused United of not turning up at St James’ Park and he wasn’t wrong.

Speaking after the win he said:

“Man United have some world class players but it seemed like we just wanted it a lot more.

“With the bigger teams, teams like us will always want it a lot more and their quality wasn’t enough to beat us and our hard work and endeavour was enough to get us over the line.

“They have got some great players but I don’t think Man Utd turned up today.

“We have played against Arsenal and Man City and you can really see the quality and one mistake or a lack of concentration and a goal will go in.

“I don’t think they were at it from the start of the game - a lot of their players went missing.”

NOT TURNING UP IS A MENTALITY ISSUE!

 

[DomesticTadpole]

NOT TUR

NOT TURNING UP IS A MENTALITY ISSUE!

It is. Now is that just the players, the fact that very few turned up in that case, or is it the manager not emphasising how important a win is? Somebody mentioned that Jose may have lost a bit of focus now the league has basically gone and that is all he is bothered about. It shouldn't be, we have to get into the Top 4 and it is not guaranteed. If this lot are as mentally weak as they appear at times, then he is really going to have to build their confidence up and pronto.

 

[raphe brown]

why play tony on the right, he is best on the left. Sanchez is more able to play on the right so why not just swap them! in my opinion Mourinho is way too stubborn, makes way to many fecking bad decisions. ps Luke Shaw is a quality left back leave him in the starting line up and build his confidence back up!

 

[el3mel]

This does not make good reading really about how we came out for the game.

12:36
United accused of going missing
Newcastle defender Jamaal Lascelle has accused United of not turning up at St James’ Park and he wasn’t wrong.

Speaking after the win he said:

“Man United have some world class players but it seemed like we just wanted it a lot more.

“With the bigger teams, teams like us will always want it a lot more and their quality wasn’t enough to beat us and our hard work and endeavour was enough to get us over the line.

“They have got some great players but I don’t think Man Utd turned up today.

“We have played against Arsenal and Man City and you can really see the quality and one mistake or a lack of concentration and a goal will go in.

“I don’t think they were at it from the start of the game - a lot of their players went missing.”

Thought the same during Southampton game as well.

We're very arrogant team, arrogant based on nothing, arrogant that we believe that we're going to win anyway even if we put the most static performance on the pitch and arrogant whenever the points gap increase with those below us. When we finally are put under pressure we realize that we're not guaranteed to win just because we're Manchester fecking United and start to put some efforts. As long as this mentality is here it'll be hard to any the league.

 

[Todd]

Martial's miss on 35min was poor, why he didn't take it far post is beyond me. As soon as that happened I knew it just wasn't going to be our day.

This result was just pathetic. Not much left to care about in the league at this point.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Thought the same during Southampton game as well.

We're very arrogant team, arrogant based on nothing, arrogant that we believe that we're going to win anyway even if we put the most static performance on the pitch and arrogant whenever the points gap increase with those below us. When we finally are put under pressure we realize that we're not guaranteed to win just because we're Manchester fecking United and start to put some efforts. As long as this mentality is here it'll be hard to any the league.

All the being the richest club in the world stuff is actually a burden to this side. As you say it gives the players an arrogance the ability of some does not justify. We are kings of the tweets when we sign someone, our players are leading in shirt sales etc, etc, etc. The fact that nobody apparently cares about City has allowed them to just get on with building a side without all the limelight. We are now a publicity machine.

 

[unitedforeveral]

It is. Now is that just the players, the fact that very few turned up in that case, or is it the manager not emphasising how important a win is? Somebody mentioned that Jose may have lost a bit of focus now the league has basically gone and that is all he is bothered about. It shouldn't be, we have to get into the Top 4 and it is not guaranteed. If this lot are as mentally weak as they appear at times, then he is really going to have to build their confidence up and pronto.

Exactly! this is exactly what i'm trying to say. He needs to build confidence in this team. I mean i'm sure they all want to play together but are not able to play freely because they have no clue in possession and running around defending. We need to keep the ball and progress. Dribbling skills are very important but i feel we just pass and that's very slow.
Top 4 is certainly not guaranteed and i'm scared getting past Seville also will not be very easy. We definitely need a shake up!

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Exactly! this is exactly what i'm trying to say. He needs to build confidence in this team. I mean i'm sure they all want to play together but are not able to play freely because they have no clue in possession and running around defending. We need to keep the ball and progress. Dribbling skills are very important but i feel we just pass and that's very slow.
Top 4 is certainly not guaranteed and i'm scared getting past Seville also will not be very easy. We definitely need a shake up!

Think if we do not get past Sevilla there would be more questions asked. If the noisy neighbours somehow won the quadruple it would turn into a major inquest. Because SAF achievement, would be forgotten, not by us, but it would have been surpassed in the medias eyes. That would make be incredibly sad. The fact a lot of that side cost next to nothing, even at those times and others were our own kids make it a phenomemal achievement.

 

[Isotope]

People having a go at Smalling

The free kick was given away almost on the half way line, should never have got to the stage of even being a threat on goal.

Yeh. When we shot blank up front, and a midfielder couldn't do his job on marking when defending set pieces; a certain centerback is blamed for it.

I'm not sure what's going on through these people's mind.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Yeh. When we shot blank up front, and a midfielder couldn't do his job on marking when defending set pieces; a certain centerback is blamed for it.

I'm not sure what's going on through these people's mind.

The defending was bad and people did not do their jobs. Isn't slightly awful that the freekick was given away in the first place by a CB diving?

 

[Sassy Colin]

The defending was bad and people did not do their jobs. Isn't slightly awful that the freekick was given away in the first place by a CB diving?

Like I said, they have no business scoring form a free kick on the half way line. Any number of free kicks are given away in the centre of the park during every game, shouldn't make any difference how or why, the opposition have no business scoring off it.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Like I said, they have no business scoring form a free kick on the half way line. Any number of free kicks are given away in the centre of the park during every game, shouldn't make any difference how or why, the opposition have no business scoring off it.

I agree that we really should have defended it better and Jose basically said the same.

 

[Micky Targaryen]

So how do I vote for Shelvey as MOTM?

 

[Acquire Me]

The problem for me is the tactics. When we bought Alexis we created a problem. One actacking player need to be left out. Lingard, Martial, Lukaku or Alexis. One player need to come in and thats a holding player.

 

[YouOnlyLiveTwice]

What was most irritating about yesterday was the complete lack of balance in the team. Matic would often be alone with Jones and Smalling in the build up, and everytime we played it out wide the lack of passing options meant we lost the ball time and time again. We should be able to string more than 3 passes together with this team.

 

[el3mel]

The problem for me is the tactics. When we bought Alexis we created a problem. One actacking player need to be left out. Lingard, Martial, Lukaku or Alexis. One player need to come in and thats a holding player.

Agree. That's what I said yesterday. Mourinho is trying to push all attacking players in one lineup and this fecked up the team balance that was formed since beginning of the season. Even during our bad periods we didn't look that unbalanced under Mourinho before.

One big name need to be dropped, either :

1 - Drop Lukaku completely and put Sanchez as a striker with Martial left, Lingard right with 3 midfielders.

2 - Drop one of Lingard or Martial completely for another midfielder and push Pogba forward.

3 - Drop Pogba completely for a DMF beside Matic if we want to play 4-2-3-1.

All these solutions hurt but definitely second one seems to be the most logical.

I just find it weird Mouirnho refused to play Rashford and Martial together for the sake of team balance before (and that was right) then goes on and do the same mistake once we get Sanchez. He knew the problem earlier but decided to go with it anyway. He needs to change that.

Players deserve the blame for lack of fight but Mourinho fecked up the team balance without any need of that. The formation in next CL game will tell us if he learnt from that or not. If we went with the same formation again it'll be a disaster.

 

[Jazz]

It is. Now is that just the players, the fact that very few turned up in that case, or is it the manager not emphasising how important a win is? Somebody mentioned that Jose may have lost a bit of focus now the league has basically gone and that is all he is bothered about. It shouldn't be, we have to get into the Top 4 and it is not guaranteed. If this lot are as mentally weak as they appear at times, then he is really going to have to build their confidence up and pronto.

This issue has been going on since SAF left. I remember the first time I heard about this was during LVG's tenure where he mentioned that Giggs said to him - before we played Everton away (which we lost) - that the players didn't look like they were up for it or words to that effect. At the time, we were coming off of a decent run, but we still needed to keep going, and we played like we couldn't be arsed. Now if I were a coach or manager and noticed that some of the players didn't look bothered, I would have addressed this promptly before they went out on to the pitch. Was puzzled as to why no one on the coaching team did anything.

Now I wonder why is that? Why did that mentality sneak into our dressing room? Most of the players have gone. The only SAF era players are DDG, Carrick, Smalling, Jones and Young. Is it their influence, or what? New players just come in and soon enough they get this shit attitude as well.

Or is it the constant pressure at United, as let's face it SAF is no longer around to keep the hounds at bay.

I'm puzzled about this though. It's obvious we have a mentality issue, so why is the manager not addressing this? Or is Jose the wrong man to change this? I dunno, but it's a big problem.