[tombombadil]

The Lindelof jumping issue must be resolved. It's not because of his height either. Roberto Ayala didn't seem to run into these issues in his day.

Totally agree. It's become a template for scoring against us. Target a high ball on Lindelof. Attack him with one strong player and you could get lucky. Throw in another player if you can spare as

Couple that with tactical fouls to block the counter, United become a very average, beatable team.

 

[BusbyMalone]

3 wins in 17

 

[Leftback99]

Stop it you drama queen...

A 6 foot 6 guy gets a run on you that is what happens. Same would of happened to Tuanzebe or Smalling in that position.

Stop exaggerating to suit your narrative.

I think we played to our level. This is what United are now...average. The glory days are past and some of you are incapable of accepting it so every week you find a new victim who if dealt with will have the trophies rolling in again.

Did you read the post you replied to? I know exactly what our current level is.

 

[Offside]

We seem to find it very difficult winning football matches which isn’t the best sign. We really ought to bin the likes of Lingard and Young and give the youngsters a go.

 

[littlepeasoup]

In fairness I thought the three new lads were our best players on the pitch today.

 

[ThinkTank@Cafe]

I agree. If this really is a rebuild then people have to be patient. There were a lot of positives and things to see during the game, which were useful for our future development as a ream.

1. Daniel James is more effective and consistent in creating chances for both himself and others on the left than either Martial and Rashford have been for the last three years. They both have periods in a game where they create chances, but have never been reliable consistent threats in the way James seems to be.

2. If we decide to keep Pogba deep, Mata is a viable option for the no.10 position. Particularly in home games. His passing and off theball movement, creates a link between midfield and attack.

3. Pogba should be pushed up the field. He is very effective there, and a real defensive liability deeper in the field. We should sell him next season for another no.10 ( and buy a defensive midfielder). His presence in midfield, forces mctominay to be a defensive midfielder, which nullifies his skillset and highlights his deficiencies.

4. We really need a right winger. Periera was horrible again, lingard has been horrible there, and neither rashford or martial have shown themselves to be willing to play there. Wan bissaka is having to create chances in isolation, which he shouldn't have to do since its his biggest weakness. He needs help in that position offensively. Greenwood can be a temporary fix ( he will be the team's striker once he gets comfortable with the team), Gomes or chong should be given a chance there, at least until we can identify and buy a suitable solution. Who knows, one of them could fill it permanently if they prove good enough.

5. We may need to experiment with Tuanzebe coming in for Lindelof. Lindelof is still shaky and represents the one defensive weak link in our backline. Tuanzebe brings pace and physical strength, and with time and given room would always have pipped Lindelof to the starting 11 position overtime. We may need to consider starting now.

The big move would be to get a defensive midfielder in January, not necessarily world class, but one who can play the role and allow mctominay and pogba play their games.
In the summer, we should sign another defensive midfielder ( with more class), a right winger if still necessary and Pogba's replacement in attacking midfield. By that time hopefully, Daniel James and Martial are competing for the left wing slot, Greenwood/Martial are producing up front, the right winger is class and Pogba's replacement is effective. It's a long way, but it could be finished by next summer.

Seconded.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Not surprised really. This our level now, we all knew this when the season started after hiring Ole and that disaster of a transfer window.

 

[Tony247]

Mata was good for this game and he was good. Take it for what it was today. Gomes has nothing to do with how Mata played today. In time, maybe Gomes will be a player.

Matic played fine today and was more tactical for Pogba. it was a good sub.

United don't have the quality of years past, we all know that. For today, Mata and Matic were not the issue, far from it

Mata's weakness is 1) his poor ball control 2) due to which he fares poorly against tight opponents 3) lacks pace

Today Southampton was pressing high from minute Go. They were throwing bodies in United half leaving ample space behind. This worked well for Mata as he started getting free 15-20 yards run. Even in that space he was not disciplined in maintaining his own position. May be that was the instruction so I would give him benefit of doubt on that. But overall he is a poor player when midfield is crowded, when there is midfied battle, when opposition is sitting back and crowding their defensing third. He is completely useless in those scenarios. Watch his games when he tries some fancy one-two, fancy sneaky pass and lose possession for the team.

A no. 10 is a creative player who unlocks the opposition in these above situations. Mata and Lingard don't have that in them.

 

[SaintMuppet]

Did you read the post you replied to? I know exactly what our current level is.

Has no place in our team you said

Exaggeration much

 

[tombombadil]

True. I don't think he trusts the forward players to interact with them, and perhaps the improvement would come with a bit of time.

Well, we can only hope. There's simply a lot of small adjustments that needs to be done right now.

 

[charlenefan]

3 wins in 17

Really not sure why last season is relevant right now? I mean it's about as relevant now as pre-season results (which we won all bar 1)

 

[Jean-Philippe Jason]

Love or hate it but face it : this team would be better with Fellaini.

 

[pogs]

Pogba should be allowed to play further forward as he looks the only creative player in our team.

We were kind of sitting back and counterattacking most of the time unlike previous 2 matches. the lines were not really compact. well if we play like this then we should at least get rid of Lindelof. too shaky of a CB in a Mourinho-esque tactic.
Perreira and Lingard are really out of depth. Better use Gomes and Greenwood. Then again there is nobody to use as an impact sub. at least two forwards / wingers needed.

Grim times to be a United supporter

 

[tjb]

Rashford has drifted in last 3 years. He has turned into a striker from 'wanting to score goal' to 'waiting for opportunity to score goal'. And both attitudes have big difference. What james scored and that shot from Greenwood is what I call 'wanting to score goal'. Rashford's game on the other hand was littered with bad decisions, bad shots from bad position, missed opportunities. I don't know who is coaching him but I am scared of thought that the same team will now be coaching Greenwood. Hope they don't turn a genuine RVP like poacher into a rashford.

Rashford has never been a player with lots of technical quality. What made me think rashford may make it at utd was his attitude and the fact that I initially pegged him down as a poacher. He's clearly not that at the moment, and the type of consistent dribbles and productivity from the left flank from Dan James highlighted what neither rashford or martial have given us over the last three years. My fear is, Rashford may really be a welbeck (good squad player, not a starter), but our enthusiasm for youth when he came through has seen him take a position he should never have gotten. Both Greenwood and Gomes are better than what Rashford was when he came through, and the technical differences are clear.

 

[Volumiza]

In fairness I thought the three new lads were our best players on the pitch today.

This is right

disaster of a transfer window.

This is wrong ... it wasn’t complete, we should have signed a midfielder and a striker but this window was far from a disaster

 

[Cypherage]

Would drop Rashford and play Greenwood, surely can't do any worse then Rashford currently, would drop Pereira & play Gomes, he can't do any worse then Pereira and Lingard. Pogba needs to stick the basics and stop trying for the Hollywood look, for a Pro "Elite" one of the world's best, he doesn't have lose the ball.

 

[Irwin99]

Can anyone give a balanced view of the game without crying their adult eyes out about lingard playing fifteen minutes ?

Sounds from reading thread we had chances and gave up no chances again ? Is it the case that we just don't have a settled and consistent striker and also don't have a strategy for beating a parked bus?

Is Dan James a huge positive ? Amazing how little it seems to have been said today after another lovely goal ?

An attempt at being objective

The positives
James is performing a lot better than my expectations. Obviously a bit of inconsistency here and there but if any player was going to score or assist United's second it was him. Excellent workrate and doesn't hide. Thought he'd just be a squad player this season.
Mctominay was decent for chunks of the game. Again, a good physical presence and passing seemed a bit sharper
AWB is immense in one-on-ones
Maguire's passing was excellent for the most part yet again

The negatives
We're clueless when the counter attack option isn't on. I think we had three or four shots on target but nothing really threatened. There's no plan B in this team, we don't have a centre forward that can dominate or hold the ball up.
Lindelof actually played pretty well until he lost the arial duel for their goal, teams will target him.
Rashford was in Vestergaard's pocket the whole game. He got nothing out of him.
Pereira is just meh. His best quality is that he can run.
Pogba was absolutely anonymous
AWB gave away the ball a lot when pressed.


Draw was a fair result. Our signings have all been pretty good it's just the lack of them that will probably be our downfall this year. I seriously can't believe there weren't at least some doubts in the summer from the board about whether this team could realistically get top 4.

 

[Sir Scott McToMinay]

3 wins in 17

Relegation form

 

[Crackers]

Wake me up when September ends

 

[Leftback99]

Has no place in our team you said

Exaggeration much

He's not good enough and we've let a better defender go in my opinion. Your opinion is that he's good enough, fine.

You then went on a rant about how some people don't realise that we're average. It's literally the first sentence in my post.

 

[tombombadil]

Mata doesn't lack ball control. haha.

He lacks physical abilities. Not strong enough and not fast enough. His work rate is decent but he can't last 90 mins anymore. But ball control, he is superior to so many players in the team.

 

[SqueakyWeasel]

He surely has to start Tuanzebe now, that two games running where Lindelof is to blame.

As for Pogba he’s our best Midfielder but has no interest playing for this club.

Is he though?

 

[snowkarl]

This.

Mata wasn’t poor today but he really had little impact on the game. And he doesn’t have the legs to be effective for 90 minutes.

Bruno would have been the perfect upgrade on Lingard, who has very little to offer other than his pressing.

Yup.

Watching the Chelsea game now and they look 10x better than us against a side like Sheffield because they play 10 very athletic players who can press the way their even more inexperienced manager wants and play for the badge.

Hopefully we do better in the coming 2 windows but I doubt Ole is surviving til Christmas at this rate.

 

[Freak]

Judging by the performances in the past few games, we still need to add a top class striker, a proper number 10 and a midfielder to the first team.

 

[El Zoido]

Any team that doesn’t have a reliable goal scoring CF is going to struggle to win games.

 

[groovyalbert]

Is he though?

Are you suggesting that McTominay is better than Pogba...

 

[DickDastardly]

Just a couple more players would make all the difference to this team. We’re not that far off. The margins are so fine in football, if we had a better CF to get on the end of those crosses that nobody challenged for, confidence would have grown and we’d have rolled them over. This is how Liverpool went from a laughing stock to being one of the best sides in the world over the space of a couple of seasons. Now I’m not saying we’re going to become as good as Liverpool, but the reactions I’m reading today are so over the top it’s crazy. Let’s at least have the patience to build this squad up from here.

Yeah.

Martial would be on the end of those at least once.

Rashford for some reason didn't.
Is it instinct or coaching....i don't know.

We'll turn it around, with out a doubt.

A good n10. is all we need.

 

[nainaisson]

Two days left to sell more forwards, Ole.

 

[Casanova85]

So, I've heard Barça is selling Rakitic, Todibo and Dembelé...

We desperately need to sign 2 key players in Jan or we won't finish 6th, with or without Ole.

 

[pseudo_canadian]

Top 4? We’ll do well to make top 10, especially with our shit Europa League travel.

 

[tombombadil]

The transfer window actually went better than some people will have you believe.

We actually bought some good players in much needed positions. Finally. The problem was that it ended sourly because we let go of some good players at the last minute who were not replaced.

 

[RedSky]

I agree. If this really is a rebuild then people have to be patient. There were a lot of positives and things to see during the game, which were useful for our future development as a ream.

1. Daniel James is more effective and consistent in creating chances for both himself and others on the left than either Martial and Rashford have been for the last three years. They both have periods in a game where they create chances, but have never been reliable consistent threats in the way James seems to be.

2. If we decide to keep Pogba deep, Mata is a viable option for the no.10 position. Particularly in home games. His passing and off theball movement, creates a link between midfield and attack.

3. Pogba should be pushed up the field. He is very effective there, and a real defensive liability deeper in the field. We should sell him next season for another no.10 ( and buy a defensive midfielder). His presence in midfield, forces mctominay to be a defensive midfielder, which nullifies his skillset and highlights his deficiencies.

4. We really need a right winger. Periera was horrible again, lingard has been horrible there, and neither rashford or martial have shown themselves to be willing to play there. Wan bissaka is having to create chances in isolation, which he shouldn't have to do since its his biggest weakness. He needs help in that position offensively. Greenwood can be a temporary fix ( he will be the team's striker once he gets comfortable with the team), Gomes or chong should be given a chance there, at least until we can identify and buy a suitable solution. Who knows, one of them could fill it permanently if they prove good enough.

5. We may need to experiment with Tuanzebe coming in for Lindelof. Lindelof is still shaky and represents the one defensive weak link in our backline. Tuanzebe brings pace and physical strength, and with time and given room would always have pipped Lindelof to the starting 11 position overtime. We may need to consider starting now.

The big move would be to get a defensive midfielder in January, not necessarily world class, but one who can play the role and allow mctominay and pogba play their games.
In the summer, we should sign another defensive midfielder ( with more class), a right winger if still necessary and Pogba's replacement in attacking midfield. By that time hopefully, Daniel James and Martial are competing for the left wing slot, Greenwood/Martial are producing up front, the right winger is class and Pogba's replacement is effective. It's a long way, but it could be finished by next summer.

Aye, thats summed up all my opinions from the previous few pages into a neat post. Completely agree with every point. It's damage limitation until we reach the Janauary transfer window and at that point we can assess our squad and fill in the gaps. It shouldn't have got to that point if Ole had been backed a bit more in the Summer but shit happens.

If nothing else the poor form of our seniors should speedup the introduction of our promising youngsters.

 

[Cockney Phil]

Another game of two halves - four times in a row speaks of weaknesses which we know is lack of depth, absence of leadership and poor tactics etc. The Chelski game flattered us but we’re a mid table not a relegation side. We’re probably going to struggle bumbling along with stupid draws and pathetic defeats or it’s going to come good. I think we lack the special spark that will turn it around.

Mason should have played earlier if not started. Rashford has defo lost his ‘sting’ and Pogba struggled to shake off his markers. The midfield needs an engine driver - these games keep exposing the loss of Ander.

 

[fps]

Any team that doesn’t have a reliable goal scoring CF is going to struggle to win games.

Of all the players to be injured, Martial to my mind is that figure, he's a coldblooded finisher.

 

[Casanova85]

Two days left to sell more forwards, Ole.

Sell Jones, Bailly, Fred, Matic and Lingard for all the feck I care. Get money to buy in January.

 

[SirMattlives]

The immediate aftermath of a game that ends poorly for us is not the time for balance but I agree with the few posters here who see that it is not all doom and gloom. First off, give Southampton some credit - they are not relegation shoe-ins, that Ralph chap has them well organized and quite dangerous as other clubs will find out. I thought we handled them well for the most part. Their goal? It would be easy to blame Lindelof for not outjumping a giant but where were the others as the ball was slowly set up for a lobbed in cross? All in straight line facing the crosser and not moving as far as I can tell. And why did Southampton even have the chance to get that cross in? Cos our goalie once again failed to catch the ball just before and chose to punch it without really clearing it.

For the most part, we do play much better than under Jose. We look to pass forward continually, we try to attack, and at limes move with speed and coherence. These are the signs to me that Ole has a plan and he's working the team to deliver it. Sure, we're lightweight up front so one wonders why we bang crosses into nobody when it gets urgent. Sure Matic and Young tend to give the ball away (and yes, Pogba did that three times in one 30 second period in the first half too) but when you're trying to pass in tight areas, the skills needed are perhaps now beyond some players. I see hope in the way we play that I never really could feel under that last years.

All that aside, remember when the mood here was it would be ok to get rid of Jose and have someone spend a season blending the youth, no matter the results? How we'd all stand beside that team as we built for the future? Well here you go.

 

[pseudo_canadian]

There’s something deeply wrong with this club. And to be cliche, yes, that involves the Glazers.

Compare how well managed City and Liverpool have been the past 5 years - top to bottom. They’re in a different class altogether, and we’re being left behind.

It will get worse before it gets any better.

 

[Madzik_92]

I agree. If this really is a rebuild then people have to be patient. There were a lot of positives and things to see during the game, which were useful for our future development as a ream.

1. Daniel James is more effective and consistent in creating chances for both himself and others on the left than either Martial and Rashford have been for the last three years. They both have periods in a game where they create chances, but have never been reliable consistent threats in the way James seems to be.

2. If we decide to keep Pogba deep, Mata is a viable option for the no.10 position. Particularly in home games. His passing and off theball movement, creates a link between midfield and attack.

3. Pogba should be pushed up the field. He is very effective there, and a real defensive liability deeper in the field. We should sell him next season for another no.10 ( and buy a defensive midfielder). His presence in midfield, forces mctominay to be a defensive midfielder, which nullifies his skillset and highlights his deficiencies.

4. We really need a right winger. Periera was horrible again, lingard has been horrible there, and neither rashford or martial have shown themselves to be willing to play there. Wan bissaka is having to create chances in isolation, which he shouldn't have to do since its his biggest weakness. He needs help in that position offensively. Greenwood can be a temporary fix ( he will be the team's striker once he gets comfortable with the team), Gomes or chong should be given a chance there, at least until we can identify and buy a suitable solution. Who knows, one of them could fill it permanently if they prove good enough.

5. We may need to experiment with Tuanzebe coming in for Lindelof. Lindelof is still shaky and represents the one defensive weak link in our backline. Tuanzebe brings pace and physical strength, and with time and given room would always have pipped Lindelof to the starting 11 position overtime. We may need to consider starting now.

The big move would be to get a defensive midfielder in January, not necessarily world class, but one who can play the role and allow mctominay and pogba play their games.
In the summer, we should sign another defensive midfielder ( with more class), a right winger if still necessary and Pogba's replacement in attacking midfield. By that time hopefully, Daniel James and Martial are competing for the left wing slot, Greenwood/Martial are producing up front, the right winger is class and Pogba's replacement is effective. It's a long way, but it could be finished by next summer.

I have no confidence whatsoever in Woodward and the owner together with Ole in rebuilding our squad. Yes it is true he clearing the deadwoods out but come on we can't beat 10man team. Do we need another 500M to do that? Haha. Ole tactic sucks face it.

 

[wolvored]

I agree. If this really is a rebuild then people have to be patient. There were a lot of positives and things to see during the game, which were useful for our future development as a ream.

1. Daniel James is more effective and consistent in creating chances for both himself and others on the left than either Martial and Rashford have been for the last three years. They both have periods in a game where they create chances, but have never been reliable consistent threats in the way James seems to be.

2. If we decide to keep Pogba deep, Mata is a viable option for the no.10 position. Particularly in home games. His passing and off theball movement, creates a link between midfield and attack.

3. Pogba should be pushed up the field. He is very effective there, and a real defensive liability deeper in the field. We should sell him next season for another no.10 ( and buy a defensive midfielder). His presence in midfield, forces mctominay to be a defensive midfielder, which nullifies his skillset and highlights his deficiencies.

4. We really need a right winger. Periera was horrible again, lingard has been horrible there, and neither rashford or martial have shown themselves to be willing to play there. Wan bissaka is having to create chances in isolation, which he shouldn't have to do since its his biggest weakness. He needs help in that position offensively. Greenwood can be a temporary fix ( he will be the team's striker once he gets comfortable with the team), Gomes or chong should be given a chance there, at least until we can identify and buy a suitable solution. Who knows, one of them could fill it permanently if they prove good enough.

5. We may need to experiment with Tuanzebe coming in for Lindelof. Lindelof is still shaky and represents the one defensive weak link in our backline. Tuanzebe brings pace and physical strength, and with time and given room would always have pipped Lindelof to the starting 11 position overtime. We may need to consider starting now.

The big move would be to get a defensive midfielder in January, not necessarily world class, but one who can play the role and allow mctominay and pogba play their games.
In the summer, we should sign another defensive midfielder ( with more class), a right winger if still necessary and Pogba's replacement in attacking midfield. By that time hopefully, Daniel James and Martial are competing for the left wing slot, Greenwood/Martial are producing up front, the right winger is class and Pogba's replacement is effective. It's a long way, but it could be finished by next summer.

Very good post agree with everything you said

 

[dev1l]

I agree. If this really is a rebuild then people have to be patient. There were a lot of positives and things to see during the game, which were useful for our future development as a ream.

1. Daniel James is more effective and consistent in creating chances for both himself and others on the left than either Martial and Rashford have been for the last three years. They both have periods in a game where they create chances, but have never been reliable consistent threats in the way James seems to be.

2. If we decide to keep Pogba deep, Mata is a viable option for the no.10 position. Particularly in home games. His passing and off theball movement, creates a link between midfield and attack.

3. Pogba should be pushed up the field. He is very effective there, and a real defensive liability deeper in the field. We should sell him next season for another no.10 ( and buy a defensive midfielder). His presence in midfield, forces mctominay to be a defensive midfielder, which nullifies his skillset and highlights his deficiencies.

4. We really need a right winger. Periera was horrible again, lingard has been horrible there, and neither rashford or martial have shown themselves to be willing to play there. Wan bissaka is having to create chances in isolation, which he shouldn't have to do since its his biggest weakness. He needs help in that position offensively. Greenwood can be a temporary fix ( he will be the team's striker once he gets comfortable with the team), Gomes or chong should be given a chance there, at least until we can identify and buy a suitable solution. Who knows, one of them could fill it permanently if they prove good enough.

5. We may need to experiment with Tuanzebe coming in for Lindelof. Lindelof is still shaky and represents the one defensive weak link in our backline. Tuanzebe brings pace and physical strength, and with time and given room would always have pipped Lindelof to the starting 11 position overtime. We may need to consider starting now.

The big move would be to get a defensive midfielder in January, not necessarily world class, but one who can play the role and allow mctominay and pogba play their games.
In the summer, we should sign another defensive midfielder ( with more class), a right winger if still necessary and Pogba's replacement in attacking midfield. By that time hopefully, Daniel James and Martial are competing for the left wing slot, Greenwood/Martial are producing up front, the right winger is class and Pogba's replacement is effective. It's a long way, but it could be finished by next summer.

Good post.