Post Match

[Sandikan]

Surely Williams and VP both got booked for the argy bargy that happened after the incident?

And thus, the FA are free to charge Williams with violent conduct for smashing the ball into VP's neck if they saw fit?

I expect the ref will play the "Halsey bottlers card", and say he saw the incident and say it wasn't worthy of punishment.

Doesn't look good for a ref to admit they missed something important, that's why Halsey lied and claimed he saw Fellaini's other violent conduct incidents last week.

Imagine if he'd said he'd missed 3 big incidents? He'd be down into the championship indefinitely

 

[Will Absolute]

Amazing that that thug will probably escape punishment entirely for a serious assault, while refusal to shake a hand in a silly pre-match ritual is treated like genocide.

 

[Sultan]

I don't think he saw anything, I am assuming the yellow card was for what happened after the incident.

He clearly saw the incident. Just bottled doing anything about it until after the fracas.

 

[hp88]

If you watch it at normal speed the whole incident is over within a second, I didn't notice Williams had the kicked the ball towards his head until I saw the replay which is why I would believe the ref If he came out with the "I didn't see it" line.

 

[7dan]

If you watch it at normal speed the whole incident is over within a second, I didn't notice Williams had the kicked the ball towards his head until I saw the replay which is why I would believe the ref If he came out with the "I didn't see it" line.

so why would he have booked williams?

 

[Stack]

Im probably out of line here but in real time and with the refs whistle going off just a split second before he kicked the ball to me it doesnt look like a deliberate act but a reckless clearance. Yellow card for it being reckless but I dont think he was trying to hit RVP

 

[NinjaFletch]

In slow motion you can see Williams looking down the pitch.

I think he was trying to clear it and sliced it, it happens. RVP's head happened to be there. You can't prove his intent, so give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

[RedLars]

In slow motion you can see Williams looking down the pitch.

I think he was trying to clear it and sliced it, it happens. RVP's head happened to be there. You can't prove his intent, so give him the benefit of the doubt.

I actually didn't see it as intentional before I saw it slowed down. It seems to me he's got his eyes fixed on RvP while booting it, which makes it seem very intentional.

 

[NinjaFletch]

I actually didn't see it as intentional before I saw it slowed down. It seems to me he's got his eyes fixed on RvP while booting it, which makes it seem very intentional.

I'm sure the gif has been posted but here it is again.

I think his eyes are fixed on the ball, looking slightly down the pitch. The follow through of his leg suggests he's hitting it down the pitch and he's leaning back to allow elevation.

I think it's very hard to say that he has 100% tried to hit Van Persie, and if you can't say that then there's no case for a retrospective ban.

 

[Tomuś]

I'm sure the gif has been posted but here it is again.

I think his eyes are fixed on the ball, looking slightly down the pitch. The follow through of his leg suggests he's hitting it down the pitch and he's leaning back to allow elevation.

I think it's very hard to say that he has 100% tried to hit Van Persie, and if you can't say that then there's no case for a retrospective ban.

Look at what is his focus after the ball is struck and you may get a better clue.

 

[Sixpence]

He 100% meant it, he keeps his eyes on RVP even after he's kicked it, i.e. not looking in the direction up the pitch that he "intended" the ball to go in. He would have kicked it away with his instep if he wanted to clear the ball up field.

A cowardly cnut of a thing to do.

 

[NinjaFletch]

Look at what is his focus after the ball is struck and you may get a better clue.

I think he's looking at the ball. When the ball hits an object that he wasn't expecting he looks at that.

I'm not saying that is definitively what happened, but I think that is as plausible as the other alternative.

I don't think it's possible to prove beyond doubt that hitting RVP was what he was trying to do, and unless there was a flair up between them before that I have forgotten he doesn't really have any reason to do it.

 

[Relevated]

why did he get so angry anyway?

 

[Bross]

Close the door on your way out Brosspam.

Hilarious beacon's last post scientifically proved me right.

 

[RK]

Its the nonchalant way he powers through the ball that shows his intentions. It was a cheap and dangerous shot

 

[beacon]

Hilarious beacon's last post scientifically proved me right.

A scientist is always prepared to adjust his hypothesis in the face of available evidence

 

[Ole'sbodyguard]

Ignoring the RVP incident I was happy with the performance of the defence and central midfield today.

Carrick was very good and Clev was decent. To completely boss the possession away at Swansea does not happen often and they deserve credit for that.

Back four were generally good and it's a big positive for Vidic to get 90 minutes under his belt.

The problem was with the front four, especially Rooney who was awful and wasted so many good opportunities to either score or create something. Valencia was bad, but Fergie had the sense to make the Hernandez sub with 30 minutes to go. It's no coincidence we started to make chances when Giggs came on for the last 15 minutes.

We were still unlucky then. RVP and Carrick's efforts were extremely close and Swansea did defend well. May have gone unnoticed but the block made by one of their defenders just before Young had the handball shout from RVP's shot stopped a certain goal as Worm was nowhere near the shot and it looked to be going in the inside post.

Of course, dropped points are never good but plenty of positives to take out of that game. I'm confident we will take maximum points in the rest of the christmas period and City have to keep in touch with us.

 

[Plechazunga]

Seems unlikely that was intentional. A rebound in the area can go anywhere, it would have been a very risky move just for the pleasure of flattening RVP... I reckon he was trying to smack it as far away as possible.

I didn't think we were as good as people on here seem to. We were on top most of the time and moved it around decently, which is good as Swansea are no mugs. But we're still a long way from the slick, dynamic inter-passing that we're capable of.

I also thought a few of our players had mares. Valencia was awful, Rooney wasn't really at the races, Jones was meh and Evans was poor in the first half.

 

[TheReligion]

Hilarious beacon's last post scientifically proved me right.

Brosspam and his Omarlogic

 

[Shark]

Why did Williams need to be held back by his team mates, shouldn't he have just took the abuse from RVP and apologised for belting a point blank ball into his head?

RVP's reaction was natural. He has every right to confront Williams the way he did.

 

[Sultan]

Seems unlikely that was intentional. A rebound in the area can go anywhere, it would have been a very risky move just for the pleasure of flattening RVP... I reckon he was trying to smack it as far away as possible.

He accepted kicking the ball in anger at giving away the free kick. So the rebound theory does not come into the equation. He did however say he never meant to target RvP.

 

[Dargonk]

Midfield I felt played well and the defence bar the goal we conceded played well. We were very wasteful in the final third, particularly in the box. I lost count of the amount of balls across the box that missed, went straight to the defender or just behind the other player. If even half of those went where they were meant to we would have won comfortably.

It feels odd to say, particularly this season, but our attackers lost this game for us.

Seems when our midfield start to click the strikers fall apart. Hopefully they dust themselves of from this game and the entire team starts to click together as we haven't really seen that except for short periods this season.

 

[Ruud10]

Oliver had already blown the whistle for a free kick and thus there was no need for Williams to "clear the ball downfield", as Williams has absurdly suggested.

You can easily see that Williams' eyes were fixed solely on RvP. Intent was clear and unambiguous.

The offense by Williams, by the way, occured inside the box. But the free kick had already been given for the foul outside the box. The simple answer in this case was to stick with the free kick outside the box and send off Williams for violent conduct.

 

[Ronnie O'Sullivan]

If we had won the game this incident wouldn't have been blown up so much.

 

[Grinner]

If we had won the game this incident wouldn't have been blown up so much.

I don't think you can just ignore attempted murder that easily.

 

[Brophs]

Look, you'd have to be a nutter to think he didn't mean to hit him with the ball and an even bigger one to think it could have killed him. But if he booted the ball at another player's head during a break in play it's quite likely he could be sent off. It's not the biggest deal, just another twattish thing done by a footballer.

 

[dmode]

If I were the ref it would have been a straight red telling him to go and calm down in the changing room.

 

[duffer]

I don't think you can just ignore attempted murder that easily.

 

[RedLars]

I'm sure the gif has been posted but here it is again.

I think his eyes are fixed on the ball, looking slightly down the pitch. The follow through of his leg suggests he's hitting it down the pitch and he's leaning back to allow elevation.

I think it's very hard to say that he has 100% tried to hit Van Persie, and if you can't say that then there's no case for a retrospective ban.

There was a bigger gif in another thread in the football forum where it seemed more clear, but other than that I agree that it's nigh on impossible to prove intent here.

 

[Platato]

Does anyone understand this team? We take the lead and then instantly lose our defensive shape allowing Swansea back into the game. Granted, Swansea are a good team but it was so strange to see us become porous all of the sudden. As vidic said, those 10-15 minutes of whatever we were doing meant Swansea could apply more pressure. After that, it was inevitable they would score.

Once their spell was over, they never really got much a look in after that. As it's been mentioned before, we still haven't performed for 90 minutes. We just seem unable to at this point but results-wise, all is well. I just dont understand why these issues arise. Maybe someone can shed some more light on it.

 

[Tomuś]

I think he's looking at the ball. When the ball hits an object that he wasn't expecting he looks at that.

I'm not saying that is definitively what happened, but I think that is as plausible as the other alternative.

I don't think it's possible to prove beyond doubt that hitting RVP was what he was trying to do, and unless there was a flair up between them before that I have forgotten he doesn't really have any reason to do it.

He's looking at RvP all the way, even after hitting the ball, can't you see it?

It's more of 'Take that you cnut' than insatiable desire to clear the ball. Hell, he has zilch interest in that he failed at the alleged clearance. Doesn't give two shits where the ball is afterwards, what, he suddenly heard the whistle just after whacking it?

There is no visible sign showing he wanted to clear it, you just can't assume that while watching the clip. Surely?

 

[That'sHernandez]

I don't really think it was as dangerous as people are making out to be quite honest. I have personally been struck in the back of the head by a clearance that has knocked me clean out and it didn't do me any damage.

Edit: It still should have been a red in my opinion, though.

 

[rcoobc]

I don't think you can just ignore attempted murder that easily.

I don't really think it was as dangerous as people are making out to be quite honest. I have personally been struck in the back of the head by a clearance that has knocked me clean out and it didn't do me any damage.

Edit: It still should have been a red in my opinion, though.

 

[That'sHernandez]

What does the eye roll mean, robocop? I got up a few seconds later after I came around and played on. I will say that ever since that happened, I get knocked out whenever I receive any blow to the head with a decent amount of force behind it.

 

[Sultan]

If he wanted to clear it up the pitch the technique of striking the ball would be different. This was an attempt at hitting the ball towards RvP in frustration. Only he knows if he was aiming for the head.

Dangerous, and thuggish.

 

[That'sHernandez]

Oh, I'm not saying Williams was trying to clear the ball. Just that I have been hit by a ball hit with a lot of power from a similar distance and it didn't kill me, it just knocked me out.

 

[Slevs]

Oh, I'm not saying Williams was trying to clear the ball. Just that I have been hit by a ball hit with a lot of power from a similar distance and it didn't kill me, it just knocked me out.

Yeah, but blows to the back of the head are very dangerous. It's even banned in the UFC, a sport in which the main winning condition is to knock someone out. It can be very dangerous, you're lucky nothing serious happened to you after that, thank God.

 

[kouroux]

I don't really think it was as dangerous as people are making out to be quite honest. I have personally been struck in the back of the head by a clearance that has knocked me clean out and it didn't do me any damage.

Edit: It still should have been a red in my opinion, though.

maybe you're really thick

 

[ghaliboy]

I think it's very hard to say that he has 100% tried to hit Van Persie, and if you can't say that then there's no case for a retrospective ban.

It may be with a shit little gif on the internet.

If you watch the video footage the whistle goes so late that if there was no actual foul and it's play on he's kicking the ball into RvP's head regardless if the ref blows for it or not.

Which tells me it's 100% completely intentional. In this day and age there are many cases where you attempt to hoof a ball into your opponent any which way you can. Sometimes it comes off and you connect. But you don't have to be clinically lining it up for it to look intentional.

Sometimes it's in the corner when you're trying to buy a throw in with a last ditch clearance or something like that. In the case of one poster saying 'we have all done it before' we probably have if we're a defender. Buying a throw is just one example. It doesn't have to be malicious.

 

[Sandikan]

What does the eye roll mean, robocop? I got up a few seconds later after I came around and played on. I will say that ever since that happened, I get knocked out whenever I receive any blow to the head with a decent amount of force behind it.

That sounds pretty serious to me.

You want to be pretty careful mate.