'Powerful' Pogba and 'unintelligent' Lukaku | Debunking media stereotypes

[Kyonn]

So, how many white guys do you see competing in athletics 100/200 meter sprints with the top athletes?

That's just an observation, not an empirical scientific study in genetics. Asian American, on average, have higher academic achievement than the general pop. People first put forth a genetics argument but on further study it was found that Asian Americans just study more. Thus environmental, not genetic, cause.

 

[Jippy]

Bullshit article. There are lazy stereotypes in football, but I think this article is trying to be controversial.

 

[eddiegordo]

It's actually not that simple at all. For example, within each 'race' you have a variety of skin tones, and sometimes the difference between those tones is greater than the difference between some members of that race and some members of another race. There's a gradient of physical differences that have been sorted into distinct categories mostly for historical reasons, hence why it's a social construct.

I think you are trying to say genetic differences within human populations have more variance than between populations, which is one of the reason we don't classify races as species.

 

[Isotope]

As far as am concerned IQ has mostly been a product of one"s enviroment as is athleticism and sporting ability.

I think talent/genetic also play massive part. That's why you can't produce another Messi, even if you put 100s of kids in the same environment/conditions as Messi growing up.

 

[eddiegordo]

That's just an observation, not an empirical scientific study in genetics. Asian American, on average, have higher academic achievement than the general pop. People first put forth a genetics argument but on further study it was found that Asian Americans just study more. Thus environmental, not genetic, cause.

Could it be possible US-Asians study more, because they are more intelligent or are raised by more intelligent people? My point being, it is very likely both genetics and environment, and it's not rocket science to assume smarter parents are going to create a more intelligent learning environment and/or attitude in their children.

Here:

http://datacenter.kidscount.org/dat...73,869,36,868,867/10,11,9,12,1,185,13/432,431

That's a link to a charity ( I think) displaying single parenthood rates in the USA.

Asians, who tend to perform the best academically, have the lowest (surprise surprise) single parenthood rate in the USA, sitting at 17%.

Here is an article, regarding what happened to an elephant population in Africa in the absence of adult males in the herd/area. There are a lot more on this subject, but I can't be bothered to find right now. PM me if you want me to as they are pretty interesting.

http://thesestonewalls.com/gordon-macrae/in-the-absence-of-fathers-a-story-of-elephants-and-men/

Basically, in the absence of adult males, younger males acted more aggressively and actually had a physical increase in testosterone. When an adult male elephant was put back in to the area, all of the young male elephants testosterone dropped & they coincidentally started behaving themselves again.

When you look at this, then look at the single parenthood rate in american populations, it isn't surprising that the single parenthood figures also correlate with crime rates within the relevant populations.

 

[eddiegordo]

Here:



Are you black? Have you ever studied at a majority black and undefunded school? Do you know what the environment and attitudes towards education are like in those places? Granted that from personal experience these attitudes are gradually changing, but still

Somehow athleticism being an innate ability to black people doesn't strike me as "the simplest explanation" as you tried to frame it



Cheers mate, I've read similar articles on that theory, they usually end with, that one included, that no firm conclusions can be drawn or that it even has any substantial effect. It becomes even more questionable when those gene variants are often found in other populous, hell, that article says it's only slightly higher in certain populous so naturally we should/would be seeing sprinters that are similarly fast from everywhere no?

And then there's the case of Brazil, one of the highest black populations, shared west African ancestry via slave trade like Jamaica and U.S yet not known for/producing sprinters, and in football also not know for its physical/powerful players but for technical ability, touch, creativity and spontaneity. I guess you could say they are admixed but so are majority of black people in the diaspora, and census show a substantial amount of Brazilians identify as black.

It's culture, environment, infrastructure, societal expectations and attitudes, opportunities, diet, shit all these factors that's been mentioned ad nauseam, rather than "athleticism is innate to black people/innate differences between races"

Again, I replied your PMs, but you need to stop with all your strawman arguments. No one is denying that social expectations, environment, diet etc effect athletic performance. No one once said that, what people are saying that in despite of this, the numbers are still overwhelming and genetics must play a major part. You seem to believe you are the only person who takes these things into consideration, you are definitely not, but most people don't think avoiding mcdonalds while looking up to black athletes explains why only 3 white men in all of history have ran the 100m in under 10 seconds.

Some white people have really good diets, in fact, countries on the Mediterranean probably have much better diets than african americans, yet still don't produce the same sort of athletes. Italians and greeks are famed for their healthy diets and the populus' longevity, yet where are all their world record setting athletes?


"Are you black" is not an argument, and it makes you look really stupid; if you are going to try and argue against percieved racism in any form, stating your opinion carries more weight because of your skin tone is pretty much the worst way you could go about it.

 

[E-mal]

I think talent/genetic also play massive part. That's why you can't produce another Messi, even if you put 100s of kids in the same environment/conditions as Messi growing up.

Sure, no doubt!
My point is the extent to which 2 players of the same talent (difficult to assess) develop is a product of their respective environment.

 

[Isotope]

Sure, no doubt!
My point is the extent to which 2 players of the same talent (difficult to assess) develop is a product of their respective environment.

Oh Ok. I can't refute that.

 

[TsuWave]

Again, I replied your PMs, but you need to stop with all your strawman arguments. No one is denying that social expectations, environment, diet etc effect athletic performance. No one once said that, what people are saying that in despite of this, the numbers are still overwhelming and genetics must play a major part. You seem to believe you are the only person who takes these things into consideration, you are definitely not, but most people don't think avoiding mcdonalds while looking up to black athletes explains why only 3 white men in all of history have ran the 100m in under 10 seconds.

Some white people have really good diets, in fact, countries on the Mediterranean probably have much better diets than african americans, yet still don't produce the same sort of athletes. Italians and greeks are famed for their healthy diets and the populus' longevity, yet where are all their world record setting athletes?


"Are you black" is not an argument, and it makes you look really stupid; if you are going to try and argue against percieved racism in any form, stating your opinion carries more weight because of your skin tone is pretty much the worst way you could go about it.

I don't even know what you are talking about, PMs?? Just because the numbers are overwhelmingly skewed towards black athletes you can't just look to the sky and scream "genetics!!!". I have linked academic studies in this thread debunking the genetics argument.

Italy and Greece do not have the same culture towards track. Despite of them supposedly having great diets, you're not gonna spit out record setting athletes if it doesn't hold the same importance it does for the communities that keep producing the highest levels of athletes, if participation is not on a similar level both in numbers and possibly intensity, if expectations aren't similar, if the infrastructure is not comparable etc etc. Self-election/removal.

No, your capacity to process objectively is the only thing seemingly stupid here. I don't know if you're this obtuse in general or if you're making an exception for this conversation. Me asking if you are black wasn't a question made in a vacuum, I was trying to ascertain your level of understanding, through first hand experience, regarding the points made. Your question was comical, "why do all of the factors you listed which negatively impact black academic performance magically vanish when it comes to athletics?" What? it must be th "thiger blood" right? I shoulda told you to feck off there tbh, "you guys deal with systemic racism, study in underfunded schools, and this is reflected in academic performance, plus condition and limit professional opportunities but how come you guys end up being good athletes?" dickhead thing.

 

[meninred]

Some pundits have criticized Lukaku as a striker who waits for things to happen rather than use anticipation and intelligent movement.

 

[SteveJ]

Could say the same about the pundits...

 

[Baxter]

Describing Serge Aurier, all Jim White could say was that he is a "powerful, powerful player". I think it's just very lazy to be fair but some actual insight would help.

 

[GledTheRed]

Describing Serge Aurier, all Jim White could say was that he is a "powerful, powerful player". I think it's just very lazy to be fair but some actual insight would help.

I just cringed at that the stupid cnut, he's not got a clue.

 

[duffer]

Describing Serge Aurier, all Jim White could say was that he is a "powerful, powerful player". I think it's just very lazy to be fair but some actual insight would help.

"Powerful, powerful player, massive dickhead and criminal" would be a bit more accurate!

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Diet, habits etc will only bring you so far. You need talent. People of African descent seem to have more of it on average than others. If you look at the facts from the 124 people who officially ran a sub 10, 20 were Born in an african country and represented that country. 3 others were naturalised and ran for countries like Qatar and Turkey. There is one Chinese and one Turk on the list. The rest are people of african descent in the diaspora.

Despite having worse infrastrucure than european countries, runners from Africa are far more represented than all European runners. There is more to it than just circumstances etc its a very complex issue.

We have been looking all over for you mate. Are you signing for us or what??

 

[Kyonn]

Could it be possible US-Asians study more, because they are more intelligent or are raised by more intelligent people? My point being, it is very likely both genetics and environment, and it's not rocket science to assume smarter parents are going to create a more intelligent learning environment and/or attitude in their children.

Here:

http://datacenter.kidscount.org/dat...73,869,36,868,867/10,11,9,12,1,185,13/432,431

That's a link to a charity ( I think) displaying single parenthood rates in the USA.

Asians, who tend to perform the best academically, have the lowest (surprise surprise) single parenthood rate in the USA, sitting at 17%.

Here is an article, regarding what happened to an elephant population in Africa in the absence of adult males in the herd/area. There are a lot more on this subject, but I can't be bothered to find right now. PM me if you want me to as they are pretty interesting.

http://thesestonewalls.com/gordon-macrae/in-the-absence-of-fathers-a-story-of-elephants-and-men/

Basically, in the absence of adult males, younger males acted more aggressively and actually had a physical increase in testosterone. When an adult male elephant was put back in to the area, all of the young male elephants testosterone dropped & they coincidentally started behaving themselves again.

When you look at this, then look at the single parenthood rate in american populations, it isn't surprising that the single parenthood figures also correlate with crime rates within the relevant populations.

Single parent households are a environmental factor not genetic.

My initial comment was in reply to someone who stated: "demonstrable differences founded in race (i.e. genetics) is not akin to racism"

I merely asked for citation of an actual genetics study that has proven these "demonstrable differences founded in race" . I have yet to see it.

 

[RooneyLegend]

Again, I replied your PMs, but you need to stop with all your strawman arguments. No one is denying that social expectations, environment, diet etc effect athletic performance. No one once said that, what people are saying that in despite of this, the numbers are still overwhelming and genetics must play a major part. You seem to believe you are the only person who takes these things into consideration, you are definitely not, but most people don't think avoiding mcdonalds while looking up to black athletes explains why only 3 white men in all of history have ran the 100m in under 10 seconds.

Some white people have really good diets, in fact, countries on the Mediterranean probably have much better diets than african americans, yet still don't produce the same sort of athletes. Italians and greeks are famed for their healthy diets and the populus' longevity, yet where are all their world record setting athletes?


"Are you black" is not an argument, and it makes you look really stupid; if you are going to try and argue against percieved racism in any form, stating your opinion carries more weight because of your skin tone is pretty much the worst way you could go about it.

The selective grouping as a result of slavery has created the athleticism that the black people of the America's have, surely that's something that would be obvious to anyone?

 

[golden_blunder]

Some pundits have criticized Lukaku as a striker who waits for things to happen rather than use anticipation and intelligent movement.

What's wrong with that? He's a box striker, so what?

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Some pundits have criticized Lukaku as a striker who waits for things to happen rather than use anticipation and intelligent movement.

Wasn't that Thiery. He then gave an example by showing a clip saying if it was him he'd be making this move and making Matic's decision for him creating an easier ball for him to play other than the weird punt pass he had to play because Lukaku was standing still.

I agree that as a society we stick to a lot of stereotypes but the article I felt used some really bad examples. Especially Morata.

 

[Pass and Move]

Rio just called Lukaku a beast on Twitter. What a racist. Should stick to boxing.

 

[botond]

Rio just called Lukaku a beast on Twitter. What a racist. Should stick to boxing.

dude , you have a Yt channel with the same name ?

 

[Pass and Move]

dude , you have a Yt channel with the same name ?

Nope, not me, but I'm going to go check it out now.

 

[RedRob]

This reputation, if people are dumb enough to believe in it, makes me smirk more every time I read it. Lukaku has moved to a new club, with very different pressures, a reputation as being wasteful and three of the most talented forwards in the league as his competition. He proceeds to score ten goals in nine games (which, not including the Super Cup, were three from each left foot, right foot and head) and forms a deadly understanding and partnership with the two of the three players vying for his place, having not had a chance with the third due only to injury. His footballing intelligence is beyond dispute to any rational thinker.

But hey, he doesn't "look like an intelligent player" and he comes from an unfashionable national team, so yeah, Unintelligent Lukaku. Idiotic reputation for idiots.

 

[Borden]

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/romelu-lukaku-belgium-world-cup_us_5b43f48be4b0c523e261dc2d
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entr...ld-cup-final-pass_us_5b4cdce3e4b0bc69a78a1f45

Came across these articles about Lukaku and Pogba written by a guy named Travis Waldron on HuffPost and it all sounded very familiar. So which one of you is Travis?

 

[Tomuś]

I have not seen or heard about any such studies. I know that high testosterone and competitiveness are more common in professional athletes, but I highly doubt that these are linked with sexual preference as well. And if it there somehow is a correlation, then I bet it's very slight. Not nearly to the degree that you suggest.

I know zilch about the correspondence but the bolded bit doesn't really make any sense, pal.

 

[Tomuś]

And saying Lukaku is unintelligent, on or off the pitch, takes an uneducated cretin. Not even getting into Pogba as being powerful as it would be pretty low on my compliment list. He's all-technique ffs.

 

[Inter Yer Nan]

And saying Lukaku is unintelligent, on or off the pitch, takes an uneducated cretin. Not even getting into Pogba as being powerful as it would be pretty low on my compliment list. He's all-technique ffs.

Yeah, I always ask people who say he's a bad player to give me his technical weaknesses. Had this yesterday watching the final with mates who said he was having a nightmare and was awful and is just a terrible player barely good enough for MLS let alone the level he's at in the real world. I just said "Give me his technical weaknesses. What aspect of the technique side of his game is so poor?" and you get nothing in response.

 

[westmeath]

Haven’t noticed the Pogba stuff so much but the descriptions of Lukaku really get me going. Plenty more to him than physique but never gets credit for it. Clearly a thoughtful and intelligent person too so the “beast” stuff is just insulting.

 

[Tomuś]

Haven’t noticed the Pogba stuff so much but the descriptions of Lukaku really get me going. Plenty more to him than physique but never gets credit for it. Clearly a thoughtful and intelligent person too so the “beast” stuff is just insulting.

As if Lukaku was bullying his markers.. Lazy analysis. The guy uses his pace, granted, but that's only part of physique. Great off the ball movement and mostly good passing choices suggest he's hardly stupid.