Privilege in its many guises

[Jericholyte2]

So I had an eye-opening talk with my wife this evening. I’ve just started running and, today, I also encountered my first case of obvious male privilege.

We were talking about how I felt during the running and she asked me how comfortable I felt running around our town in the dark. I was taken aback and replied how I felt fine and, when I asked why, she floored me when she said that she wouldn’t feel comfortable doing that, even if it was taking our dog for a walk.

Now, we’ve lived here for 8yrs and we have a great little community, but that is a world I never even imagine existed. She effectively has a curfew, feeling uncomfortable and unsafe alone in the area we’ve called home for nearly a decade!

There is no other term for this other than ‘male privilege’.

Now I’m aware of the obvious white privilege and other forms of that term, I was wondering was experienced users have had that has brought this idea of ‘privilege’ to the forefront of people’s minds?

 

[MarylandMUFan]

From a safety standpoint, this is definitely a thing. While my wife doesn't bother, I know quite a few women who do certain things in parking lots/car parks when they walk to and from their car for safety (like carry a whistle handy or have their keys between their fingers balled up in a fist). Men definitely don't think about those things.

 

[Hugh Jass]

Women fear being murdered by men. Men fear being laughed at by women.

 

[Cheimoon]

So I had an eye-opening talk with my wife this evening. I’ve just started running and, today, I also encountered my first case of obvious male privilege.

We were talking about how I felt during the running and she asked me how comfortable I felt running around our town in the dark. I was taken aback and replied how I felt fine and, when I asked why, she floored me when she said that she wouldn’t feel comfortable doing that, even if it was taking our dog for a walk.

Now, we’ve lived here for 8yrs and we have a great little community, but that is a world I never even imagine existed. She effectively has a curfew, feeling uncomfortable and unsafe alone in the area we’ve called home for nearly a decade!

There is no other term for this other than ‘male privilege’.

Now I’m aware of the obvious white privilege and other forms of that term, I was wondering was experienced users have had that has brought this idea of ‘privilege’ to the forefront of people’s minds?

Watching films and staying interested. That's not the right wording but I can't quickly think of something better. In any case, it's the fact that the overwhelming majority of films primarily features men doing things with and against other men. That results in male conversations, male perspectives, male everything - in short, that famous male gaze. Sure, some things are universal among the sexes; but not that much. It can be actively off-putting once you start noticing that. And now imagine almost every film you've ever seen being like that.

I'm still not expressing this very well, but I suppose you get the idea.

 

[Raoul]

So I had an eye-opening talk with my wife this evening. I’ve just started running and, today, I also encountered my first case of obvious male privilege.

We were talking about how I felt during the running and she asked me how comfortable I felt running around our town in the dark. I was taken aback and replied how I felt fine and, when I asked why, she floored me when she said that she wouldn’t feel comfortable doing that, even if it was taking our dog for a walk.

Now, we’ve lived here for 8yrs and we have a great little community, but that is a world I never even imagine existed. She effectively has a curfew, feeling uncomfortable and unsafe alone in the area we’ve called home for nearly a decade!

There is no other term for this other than ‘male privilege’.

Now I’m aware of the obvious white privilege and other forms of that term, I was wondering was experienced users have had that has brought this idea of ‘privilege’ to the forefront of people’s minds?

Not sure if I would ascribe the word privilege to it, as its simply a reality of the world we live in.

 

[T00lsh3d]

Depends where you’re running. There’s been times in my life I’ve feared a kicking when I’ve been out running, when obviously you’re too tired to adequately defend yourself

 

[Withnail]

Not sure if I would ascribe the word privilege to it, as its simply a reality of the world we live in.

It's pretty much the textbook definition of the word.

 

[Pexbo]

Not sure if I would ascribe the word privilege to it, as its simply a reality of the world we live in.

what

 

[Rado_N]

Not sure if I would ascribe the word privilege to it, as its simply a reality of the world we live in.

Tell us you dont understand privilege without telling us you don’t understand privilege.

 

[Jericholyte2]

Not sure if I would ascribe the word privilege to it, as its simply a reality of the world we live in.

I am in a privileged position compared to my wife because I can do something like this without worrying about my personal safety.

As ‘real world’ as that is, it’s a hierarchy of privilege.

 

[fergieisold]

I am in a privileged position compared to my wife because I can do something like this without worrying about my personal safety.

As ‘real world’ as that is, it’s a hierarchy of privilege.

So when women go out at night and aren’t worried about getting their heads kicked in is that ‘female privilege?’

 

[Scandi Red]

Women fear being murdered by men. Men fear being laughed at by women.

So it's basically equal?

 

[Pexbo]

So when women go out at night and aren’t worried about getting their heads kicked in is that ‘female privilege?’

Women don’t fear violence on nights out? How sheltered are you exactly?

 

[Jericholyte2]

So when women go out at night and aren’t worried about getting their heads kicked in is that ‘female privilege?’

You’ve never spoken to women about this issue have you?

 

[Pexbo]

You’ve never spoken to women about this issue have you?

Reading his posts I’d be shocked if he’s ever spoken to a woman full stop.

 

[fergieisold]

Women don’t fear violence on nights out? How sheltered are you exactly?

violent crime disproportionately affects men.

anyway, I’m just poking fun at the privilege thing - it tends to just detract from the actual issue.

 

[Raoul]

I am in a privileged position compared to my wife because I can do something like this without worrying about my personal safety.

As ‘real world’ as that is, it’s a hierarchy of privilege.

I understand that argument and it does make sense that there are obvious differences, but surely there some limits to how far one can take this sort of thing. For instance, I have a gay friend who told me he is scared walking alone at night because of homophobia (despite my neighborhood being ~40% LGBTQ). Would that be "straight privilege" or simply a matter of how violent criminals prey on ordinary citizens irrespective of background ? In another example, take a small male (think the size of a horse racing jockey) and a significantly larger than him woman walking side by side at night. Would your male privilege argument still apply ?

 

[Raoul]

violent crime disproportionately affects men.

anyway, I’m just poking fun at the privilege thing - it tends to just detract from the actual issue.

That's largely because men are the ones committing it against men, and women against women (ie most crimes are committed by one gender against the same gender).

 

[fergies coat]

So basically straight white men have all the privileges? Lucky me.

 

[Jericholyte2]

I understand that argument and it does make sense that there are obvious differences, but surely there some limits to how far one can take this sort of thing. For instance, I have a gay friend who told me he is scared walking alone at night because of homophobia (despite my neighborhood being ~40% LGBTQ). Would that be "straight privilege" or simply a matter of how violent criminals prey on ordinary citizens irrespective of background ? In another example, take a small male (think the size of a horse racing jockey) and a significantly larger than him woman walking side by side at night. Would your male privilege argument still apply ?

1. Yes I’d argue that was a great example of straight privilege. To a wider degree, as a straight man I can walk down a street in pretty much every country in the world holding hand of the woman that I love. Members of the LGBTQ+ community don’t have that privilege

2. The small man / tall women argument - you forget the issue at play in the male-female divide, sexual violence. The small man wouldn’t be targeted by people who have the intention of gratifying themselves sexually.

 

[Raoul]

1. Yes I’d argue that was a great example of straight privilege. To a wider degree, as a straight man I can walk down a street in pretty much every country in the world holding hand of the woman that I love. Members of the LGBTQ+ community don’t have that privilege

2. The small man / tall women argument - you forget the issue at play in the male-female divide, sexual violence. The small man wouldn’t be targeted by people who have the intention of gratifying themselves sexually.

Thanks, that makes sense.

 

[massi83]

I, for one, am surprised raoul doubled down, instead of admitting his mistake and learning from others.

 

[Rado_N]

So basically straight white men have all the privileges? Lucky me.

No that’s not it, us straight white guys are the most persecuted group there is, right?

 

[Jericholyte2]

So basically straight white men have all the privileges? Lucky me.

No, that’s not what’s being said at all. What I and others are suggesting is that straight white men don’t have to worry about issues that women, LGBTQ+ or BAME groups have to.

As tough as life might be for you or other straight white men, it’s not made harder by people’s reactions to those inherent traits.

That is a position of privilege.

 

[Abizzz]

1. Yes I’d argue that was a great example of straight privilege. To a wider degree, as a straight man I can walk down a street in pretty much every country in the world holding hand of the woman that I love. Members of the LGBTQ+ community don’t have that privilege

2. The small man / tall women argument - you forget the issue at play in the male-female divide, sexual violence. The small man wouldn’t be targeted by people who have the intention of gratifying themselves sexually.

Tell that to a group of former choir boys...


Privilege is all around us. I don't think anyone can debate it. It's hardly a one way street though even if there is no possible way of weighing it up. Not being expected to fight and die for your country's political decisions is also a privilege.

 

[Glorio]

In my opinion, privilege in itself is not necessarily wrong, as in many cases the privileged party can't help it. I feel folks on the thread see it as accusatory.
It's a lack of empathy either way that causes problems.

 

[Jericholyte2]

Tell that to a group of former choir boys...


Privilege is all around us. I don't think anyone can debate it. It's hardly a one way street though even if there is no possible way of weighing it up. Not being expected to fight and die for your country's political decisions is also a privilege.

The example was a small man, not children. That’s an entirely different power dynamic.

In my opinion, privilege in itself is not necessarily wrong, as in many cases the privileged party can't help it. It's the lack of empathy that causes problems.

Absolutely

 

[Raoul]

Tell that to a group of former choir boys...

Good point. Although this would probably be more of an outlier than the norm ?

Privilege is all around us. I don't think anyone can debate it. It's hardly a one way street though even if there is no possible way of weighing it up. Not being expected to fight and die for your country's political decisions is also a privilege.

How do you mean ? People who live in countries where there is no conscription are privileged over those who live in nations where they are forced to serve in the military ?

 

[Redplane]

I don't know if someone heard this quote before, but it's a pretty powerful one:

"When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression"

Now, I do think it is not without flaws obviously but when you think about why so many things in our society are so hard fought, it often seems to come down to that. Those in privileged positions either don't see the privilege, or refuse to give up the advantage. Granted, privilege will always exist in some shape or form and I concur with the above its often just the lack of empathy thats the issue.

 

[Abizzz]

Good point. Although this would probably be more of an outlier than the norm ?



How do you mean ? People who live in countries where there is no conscription are privileged over those who live in nations where they are forced to serve in the military ?

In a way yes, but wasn't what I had in mind.

I was thinking of the countries with conscription. I am only aware of 2 in the world where that affects everyone.

 

[Raoul]

In a way yes, but wasn't what I had in mind.

I was thinking of the countries with conscription. I am only aware of 2 in the world where that affects everyone.

Israel and Russia immediately spring to mind. Ukraine now as well given the war.

 

[Raoul]

I don't know if someone heard this quote before, but it's a pretty powerful one:

"When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression"

Now, I do think it is not without flaws obviously but when you think about why so many things in our society are so hard fought, it often seems to come down to that. Those in privileged positions either don't see the privilege, or refuse to give up the advantage. Granted, privilege will always exist in some shape or form and I concur with the above its often just the lack of empathy thats the issue.

They also probably don't frame it as privilege, and instead simply see it as the cards they were dealt - as in, they were involuntarily born into situations where they don't have it as hard as others. In such a view, there will always be imbalances in the power dynamics between human groups, although that doesn't mean we can't work to balance them out as much as possible.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

So I had an eye-opening talk with my wife this evening. I’ve just started running and, today, I also encountered my first case of obvious male privilege.

We were talking about how I felt during the running and she asked me how comfortable I felt running around our town in the dark. I was taken aback and replied how I felt fine and, when I asked why, she floored me when she said that she wouldn’t feel comfortable doing that, even if it was taking our dog for a walk.

Now, we’ve lived here for 8yrs and we have a great little community, but that is a world I never even imagine existed. She effectively has a curfew, feeling uncomfortable and unsafe alone in the area we’ve called home for nearly a decade!

There is no other term for this other than ‘male privilege’.

Now I’m aware of the obvious white privilege and other forms of that term, I was wondering was experienced users have had that has brought this idea of ‘privilege’ to the forefront of people’s minds?

I’m mainly surprised this has never occurred to you or been mentioned to you before now?

Say you’re walking down a quiet, dark street late at night and you see a lone woman walking ahead of you, slightly slower than you. Do you just walk up behind them and pass right beside them? I’ve always (most of my adult life anyway?) been very conscious of how vulnerable women feel in those situations, so would usually give them a wide berth. Crossing the street, or changing my route so as not to make them feel intimidated. I honestly thought most blokes were aware of this.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

They also probably don't frame it as privilege, and instead simply see it as the cards they were dealt - as in, they were involuntarily born into situations where they don't have it as hard as others. In such a view, there will always be imbalances in the power dynamics between human groups, although that doesn't mean we can't work to balance them out as much as possible.

You can replace those words with “privilege” and save yourself some typing. The meaning is identical.

 

[Jericholyte2]

I’m mainly surprised this has never occurred to you or been mentioned to you before now?

Say you’re walking down a quiet, dark street late at night and you see a lone woman walking ahead of you, slightly slower than you. Do you just walk up behind them and pass right beside them? I’ve always (most of my adult life anyway?) been very conscious of how vulnerable women feel in those situations, so would usually give them a wide berth. Crossing the street, or changing my route so as not to make them feel intimidated. I honestly thought most blokes were aware of this.

No I always act similarly to how you describe, as I was always aware of violence against women. What was eye-opening was the extent to which it impacts my wife’s ability to enjoy the area we should’ve the most comfortable in.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

No I always act similarly to how you describe, as I was always aware of violence against women. What was eye-opening was the extent to which it impacts my wife’s ability to enjoy the area we should’ve the most comfortable in.

Ah. Ok. Just surprised you didn’t join the dots before now. Jogging at night is just the same as those lone women walking quiet streets at night. Only slightly quicker!

 

[foolsgold]

So basically straight white men have all the privileges? Lucky me.

Not sure if you’re being ironic, but yes lucky you and me. I saw this when doors business travel around the US and South Asia with a visibly islamic female teammate. How we were treated was night and day.

 

[Murder on Zidane's Floor]

So I had an eye-opening talk with my wife this evening. I’ve just started running and, today, I also encountered my first case of obvious male privilege.

We were talking about how I felt during the running and she asked me how comfortable I felt running around our town in the dark. I was taken aback and replied how I felt fine and, when I asked why, she floored me when she said that she wouldn’t feel comfortable doing that, even if it was taking our dog for a walk.

Now, we’ve lived here for 8yrs and we have a great little community, but that is a world I never even imagine existed. She effectively has a curfew, feeling uncomfortable and unsafe alone in the area we’ve called home for nearly a decade!

There is no other term for this other than ‘male privilege’.

Now I’m aware of the obvious white privilege and other forms of that term, I was wondering was experienced users have had that has brought this idea of ‘privilege’ to the forefront of people’s minds?

Yeah, sounds dumb but just listening to women speak is illuminating.

Remember something that went semi viral a few years ago, a professor asked men what they do to stay safe, it was stay in shape etc.

Women, the list was insane, ranging from never parking your car in multi storey garage to never renting on the ground floor, to always being on the phone talking to a man when around strangers.

It was eye opening and well, down right sad.

 

[Murder on Zidane's Floor]

I’m mainly surprised this has never occurred to you or been mentioned to you before now?

Say you’re walking down a quiet, dark street late at night and you see a lone woman walking ahead of you, slightly slower than you. Do you just walk up behind them and pass right beside them? I’ve always (most of my adult life anyway?) been very conscious of how vulnerable women feel in those situations, so would usually give them a wide berth. Crossing the street, or changing my route so as not to make them feel intimidated. I honestly thought most blokes were aware of this.

Ditto, been doing this since my teens.

I also close my eyes and "sleep" if they get on my train carriage late at night etc.

 

[Maagge]

So it's basically equal?

I think he's just quoting IDLES quoting Margaret Atwood or someone.