Pro Cycling 2021

[RedFish]

He'll be fine. Vlasov and Cathy lost 3 and 4 ish mins respectively.

Delighted for Martin, always good for a mountain stage win, and one of the more exciting riders to watch over the last decade. A true racer.

 

[Ainu]

Bernal not dominant anymore but I still think he has things under control. At the end of the day he only loses time to Yates (Almeida is too far back to be considered). Yates looks really strong though, he's managed his efforts during the first two weeks really well and is the strongest of the favourites in the crucial week three. What a contrast to his 2018 Giro.

Tomorrow's stage is going to be brutal. If Yates is feeling really well he can certainly claw back some time but Bernal always has the advantage of his super strong team. Martinez in particular has looked fantastic. I think it's damage limitation for Ineos tomorrow and Bernal will keep a significant advantage going into the time trial.

 

[RedFish]

Bernal not dominant anymore but I still think he has things under control. At the end of the day he only loses time to Yates (Almeida is too far back to be considered). Yates looks really strong though, he's managed his efforts during the first two weeks really well and is the strongest of the favourites in the crucial week three. What a contrast to his 2018 Giro.

Tomorrow's stage is going to be brutal. If Yates is feeling really well he can certainly claw back some time but Bernal always has the advantage of his super strong team. Martinez in particular has looked fantastic. I think it's damage limitation for Ineos tomorrow and Bernal will keep a significant advantage going into the time trial.

Martinez looks in amazing shape, smashing it for Bernal up the slopes.

There's just something incredibly inspirational about someone emptying their tank for their leaders. Who can forget Kwiato's efforts in recent years for example.....

 

[RedFish]

Look at Martinez....brilliant.

 

[vangagal]

Carusso, now that was a worthy ride for podium.
Bernal looks calm and composed during this third week, a worthy winner for this year Giro.
All in all, we should have got that coverage in stage 16, what a miss that was.

 

[RedFish]

Carusso, now that was a worthy ride for podium.
Bernal looks calm and composed during this third week, a worthy winner for this year Giro.
All in all, we should have got that coverage in stage 16, what a miss that was.

And if it wasn't for Landa crashing out this would likely never have happened. Giro's reputation for being unpredictable upheld once again.

 

[vangagal]

And if it wasn't for Landa crashing out this would likely never have happened. Giro's reputation for being unpredictable upheld once again.

Yes, unfortunately for Landa, his luck was rotten in this Giro.

 

[RedFish]

Ineos' team for the Dauphine

THOMAS Geraint
KWIATKOWSKI Michał
AMADOR Andrey
GEOGHEGAN HART Tao
PORTE Richie
RODRÍGUEZ Carlos
VAN BAARLE Dylan

L0l, not bad!

 

[RedFish]

Cavagna straight into the barrier Was looking good for the win too

 

[RedFish]

Easy Bernal....save that for the bedroom

 

[Suedesi]

Easy Bernal....save that for the bedroom

Ah it's okay - they're not robots, just people with emotions. He's probably not had any in a while too. :-)

Brilliant tour, great job by Bernal, definitely a history maker.

PS Too bad he looks a bit like Angel di Maria

 

[RedFish]

Ah it's okay - they're not robots, just people with emotions. He's probably not had any in a while too. :-)

Brilliant tour, great job by Bernal, definitely a history maker.

PS Too bad he looks a bit like Angel di Maria

Yeah happy for him. He's under immense pressure at Ineos - lead GT rider, outstanding climber of his generation and the chosen one of Ineos.

But in my heart I still have Kwiato, Poels, Kiriyenka, Wiggo way above him.

Not sure what he's lacking exactly but he just doesn't capture my imagination as much as the aforementioned.....

Come.to think of it, it's penache. He's lacking the exuberance of a Contador, a Nibali or the charisma of a Wiggins.

I'll give it time though. Maybe I'll warm to him more...

Come to think of it , that snog is a good place to start!

 

[RobinLFC]

Nice performance by Pöstlberger.

I know it's customary that attackers stay away in the Giro but now two times in a row as well in the Dauphine, I wonder if this trend will continue in the Tour where the flat stages are usually very well-controlled by the sprinters' teams. But who is good enough? I doubt Lotto-Soudal will be able to do it on their own for Ewan given their usual ineptitude. Nizzolo, Viviani, Gaviria, ... Not sure they're even going and they're not as good as they once were. Jumbo-Visma won't work for Van Aert as they have to protect Roglic, maybe Quick-Step will do enough for Bennett (is he going?).

Gonna be one hell of a Tour this year, although I strongly expect Pogacar to blow everyone away, including Roglic.

 

[Suedesi]

Yeah happy for him. He's under immense pressure at Ineos - lead GT rider, outstanding climber of his generation and the chosen one of Ineos.

But in my heart I still have Kwiato, Poels, Kiriyenka, Wiggo way above him.

Not sure what he's lacking exactly but he just doesn't capture my imagination as much as the aforementioned.....

Come.to think of it, it's penache. He's lacking the exuberance of a Contador, a Nibali or the charisma of a Wiggins.

I'll give it time though. Maybe I'll warm to him more...

Come to think of it , that snog is a good place to start!

True, comes off robotic and doesn’t have panache/charisma but he’s an outstanding climber and given his age he’s bound to be around for a while at the top level.

 

[Suedesi]

@RobinLFC @Ainu @RedFish

How do individuals/teams decide which races to attend/skip? Obviously with Giro and Dauphine overlapping for example you can't do both, but I noticed most of the big shots (Roglic, Tadej, Van Aert, Alaphilippe etc) completely skipped out the Giro. Are they saving themselves for le Tour? Is this typical, or just a Covid thing?

 

[RobinLFC]

@RobinLFC @Ainu @RedFish

How do individuals/teams decide which races to attend/skip? Obviously with Giro and Dauphine overlapping for example you can't do both, but I noticed most of the big shots (Roglic, Tadej, Van Aert, Alaphilippe etc) completely skipped out the Giro. Are they saving themselves for le Tour? Is this typical, or just a Covid thing?

Just not realistic anymore to achieve these days imo. It hasn't been done since Pantani in 1998 (questionable) and before that it were the true greats like Indurain, Hinault and Merckx who did it. If I'm not mistaken, all of Contador, Nibali, Froome, ... have tried and failed in the last decade or so.

There's just over a month between the end of the Giro and the start of the Tour (this year even less than a month because of the Olympic Games). That's baaarely enough time to recover from the Giro and be somewhat fresh again for the start of the Tour, but you're still gonna feel the Giro in your legs once the Tour gets to the second/third week. Not only that, you're also at a major disadvantage compared to guys that focused solely on the Tour and have the advantage of a proper training camp at altitude (which both Pogacar and Roglic are doing right now), they've peaked towards the Tour and you're there barely recovered from the Giro. Unless the competition is clearly inferior to you (which is definitely not the case right now with the Slovenians), it's just not achievable anymore imo and it's not something we'll see again in the (near) future. Maybe Pogacar might try it for fun if he has won a few Tours on the bounce but also not before that.

The Giro is an amazing race in its own right but the Tour is the pinnacle of pro cycling so understandably the best riders are focusing solely on that (and most of them have been doing that since the Armstrong days).

 

[Ainu]

@RobinLFC @Ainu @RedFish

How do individuals/teams decide which races to attend/skip? Obviously with Giro and Dauphine overlapping for example you can't do both, but I noticed most of the big shots (Roglic, Tadej, Van Aert, Alaphilippe etc) completely skipped out the Giro. Are they saving themselves for le Tour? Is this typical, or just a Covid thing?

As @RobinLFC said, GC contenders or key domestiques who ride the Tour almost always skip the Giro, as the combination is too demanding. They prepare everything to perfection to be in peak condition in the Tour and the Giro just doesn't fit in that preparation. They are too close together to fit in a rest period and start building up fitness again.

Roglic is a bit of a special case this year by the way. He has decided to skip all competitive racing as preparation for the Tour. He and his team have decided that he's perfectly capable of being in peak condition after training camps without any racing, so that's what they're going for.

 

[RobinLFC]

As @RobinLFC said, GC contenders or key domestiques who ride the Tour almost always skip the Giro, as the combination is too demanding. They prepare everything to perfection to be in peak condition in the Tour and the Giro just doesn't fit in that preparation. They are too close together to fit in a rest period and start building up fitness again.

Roglic is a bit of a special case this year by the way. He has decided to skip all competitive racing as preparation for the Tour. He and his team have decided that he's perfectly capable of being in peak condition after training camps without any racing, so that's what they're going for.

I'd usually disagree, even Van Aert who had a great 14-day training camp in Tenerife needed some race strengthening to be in top form this Spring. But Roglic is a bit of a special case, in years past he was already close to full strength in June and began to trend downwards in week 3 of the Tour, so I can understand why they're going for a different approach right now. Especially since the first week of the Tour isn't that demanding this year, it might be better to grow to top form rather than start with top form.

 

[Suedesi]

TY!!!

 

[Suedesi]

Just not realistic anymore to achieve these days imo. It hasn't been done since Pantani in 1998 (questionable) and before that it were the true greats like Indurain, Hinault and Merckx who did it. If I'm not mistaken, all of Contador, Nibali, Froome, ... have tried and failed in the last decade or so.

There's just over a month between the end of the Giro and the start of the Tour (this year even less than a month because of the Olympic Games). That's baaarely enough time to recover from the Giro and be somewhat fresh again for the start of the Tour, but you're still gonna feel the Giro in your legs once the Tour gets to the second/third week. Not only that, you're also at a major disadvantage compared to guys that focused solely on the Tour and have the advantage of a proper training camp at altitude (which both Pogacar and Roglic are doing right now), they've peaked towards the Tour and you're there barely recovered from the Giro. Unless the competition is clearly inferior to you (which is definitely not the case right now with the Slovenians), it's just not achievable anymore imo and it's not something we'll see again in the (near) future. Maybe Pogacar might try it for fun if he has won a few Tours on the bounce but also not before that.

The Giro is an amazing race in its own right but the Tour is the pinnacle of pro cycling so understandably the best riders are focusing solely on that (and most of them have been doing that since the Armstrong days).

So basically Egan Bernal won't be participating in the Tour this year, or if he does, he won't really be a contender. I know he's won the Tour in 2019, but he's basically forfeiting Le Tour for the chance to win Il Giro. Maybe he can have a nice rest and go for La Vuelta in the fall? Anyways, the decision which tour to go for seems to be strategic and fascinating in itself.

As an aside, if cyclists have to choose between either Le Tour or Il Giro, shouldn't they space out the calendar a bit to ensure participation in both? I know Amaury family and RCS Sport are both private organizations who won't care, but currently it just seems wrong.

 

[RobinLFC]

So basically Egan Bernal won't be participating in the Tour this year, or if he does, he won't really be a contender. I know he's won the Tour in 2019, but he's basically forfeiting Le Tour for the chance to win Il Giro. Maybe he can have a nice rest and go for La Vuelta in the fall? Anyways, the decision which tour to go for seems to be strategic and fascinating in itself.

As an aside, if cyclists have to choose between either Le Tour or Il Giro, shouldn't they space out the calendar a bit to ensure participation in both? I know Amaury family and RCS Sport are both private organizations who won't care, but currently it just seems wrong.

Bernal won't participate, no. I think Ineos sent him to the Giro to regain confidence after last year's Tour fiasco as they weren't sure about his abilities after that. They'll be going with Thomas in the Tour but he won't come close to Pogacar and Roglic (neither would Bernal have imo so he definitely made the right choice).

Altering the calendar is pretty impossible too. Can't start before May or you'll miss every classics rider, can't get too close to the Tour data which is beginning of July, and after that it's Vuelta time so basically they'd just be switching with the Vuelta in that case. Can't have it after the Vuelta either anymore. And can't really "space it out" any more than it already is because the Flanders opening weekend is in tough enough conditions more often than not as it is, at the end of February. Can't have the riders starting in Flanders (and the Tirreno, Strade Bianche, San Remo) before March. And they need to have enough rest at the end of the season, any race after the World Championships at the end of September is already pretty useless apart from Lombardia.

Riders just know that it's either the Giro or the Tour if they wanna attempt to win one these days. Nothing wrong with that either, you can always combine Giro-Vuelta (or Tour-Vuelta is also more attainable).

 

[RedFish]

@RobinLFC @Ainu @RedFish

How do individuals/teams decide which races to attend/skip? Obviously with Giro and Dauphine overlapping for example you can't do both, but I noticed most of the big shots (Roglic, Tadej, Van Aert, Alaphilippe etc) completely skipped out the Giro. Are they saving themselves for le Tour? Is this typical, or just a Covid thing?

The Teams play to their strenth of their roster.

They look at the start of the season and literally plan the whole season out for each individual's rider based around the teams objectives for the season.

The riders they select for each race depends on the suitability of the parcours for each rider, previous form and current form and lots of performance data and also the ambitions of the rider.

Historically it has been hideously difficult to win back to back GTs and only Froome and Contador have done so in the past 20 odd years (Tour + Vuelta). I'm talking in the same calendar year.

Therefore teams have to choose their roster for each major race carefully looking at the capabilities of the riders at their disposal.

I think I understand the premise of your question. I think it's a flaw of the calender and the races within it that makes it almost impossible for all the "best riders" to race in all the "biggest races" eg all 3 GTs.

It really is a squad game and getting the balance right is very difficult. Each rider has their own individual road map from beginning to end of season.

 

[Suedesi]

TY

 

[RobinLFC]

Great scoop by Ineos, they clearly knew the last K and executed it perfectly to leave the gap for Thomas at the right moment.

 

[RedFish]

Fuuuuuck! what a steal from GT at the hairpin. Very nice indeed.

 

[RobinLFC]

Alejandro Valverde; phenomenon

 

[RedFish]

Alejandro Valverde; phenomenon

Yeah , that was a veterans move to stay so calm with Tao sprinting off like that. Took it with ease in the end. Hats off.

Last 30k now and Porte and Ineos looking ominously strong.

 

[RedFish]

Geraint hits the deck again, but seems ok.

 

[Kasper]

Well well, will definitely have an eye on Bahrain Victorious at this tour. Colbrelli fair enough, Caruso, Mäder and Tratnik flying in the giro was already interesting but that Padun performances... my lord. In hindsight he was probably too dominant, everyone will watch out for him at the tour now, otherwise he probably could`ve gone for yolo solo rides in the mountains like Rasmussen used to do in the mid 2000s.
Wonder if there is any instance that could drop the hammer on him/them, either through official means or if not if there`re still inofficial powers that could do what Armstrong did to Mayo and Hamilton around 2004.

But yeah, Landa to be reckoned at the tour.

 

[RobinLFC]

Fecking hell Van der Poel, there are no words anymore. Him vs Van Aert (not even necessarily in bunch sprints) could potentially be great in the first week of the Tour.

 

[RedFish]

 

[RobinLFC]

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[Samid]

fecking clown spectator

 

[Samid]

This stage man

 

[Ainu]

Shame about all the crashes. Great final though, an Alaphilippe special.

 

[Kasper]

Happy for Alaphilippe. Think Roglic and Pogacar could've closed him down but no one was (understandably) willing to work having the other in his slipstream so they sat up. And when WVA was back to pace the peleton the gap had become too big.
MVDP as so often with questionable positioning at the beginning of this climb, should've been on JAs wheel.

 

[Ainu]

Happy for Alaphilippe. Think Roglic and Pogacar could've closed him down but no one was (understandably) willing to work having the other in his slipstream so they sat up. And when WVA was back to pace the peleton the gap had become too big.
MVDP as so often with questionable positioning at the beginning of this climb, should've been on JAs wheel.

Yup, we've been here before. It was the same at the foot of the Poggio in MSR this year. He's great at this type of climb but if there's still a large group, he just can't seem to position himself.

 

[utdalltheway]

fecking clown spectator

I heard that they’re going to sue her for that. Hopefully they’ll go for something with some teeth to make a point and deter other idiots/chancers.

 

[Stevondo8]

Same again today? Although hopefully with spectators watching the race, rather than trying to get on tv.

Some of the injuries listed sound pretty horrible…is it Soler who broke both elbows?

 

[Sassy Colin]

Was watching the highlights of yesterday earlier. That fecking stupid spectator has ruined the Tour.