Project Spark

[afrocentricity]

Nobody else wanted to start this thread so I guess I'll do it:

It's free to play apparently so you can't really lose.

I was watching one of the developers just building an action/adventure type platformer yesterday and it really is crazy what can be done with this. You can guarantee that there will be people bothered to put in the effort of making the best games possible, and in some senses I'm hoping this will partially reignite the JRPG genre. You could absolutely make a top drawer JRPG, action RPG, adventure game, platformer or whatever here, and I'm guessing about 2 years down the line at least a few of the best next gen games will actually be Project Spark games. When you look at what people have managed with RPG maker and then see just how much more powerful this is then you start to appreciate what can be done with it.

They have said nothing about it's own game/story though, you're right, although it's a bit difficult to see what they would do with that to be honest. LBP is far more narrow in scope and the game itself is more defined, where as the Project Spark developers themselves aren't even sure what the limits are, so pinning it down to some sort of single player campaign wouldn't make too much sense. This is the one you should watch to get a good idea:


From 8:00 onwards, that's when you can clearly see the potential of what can be done here. It's not just 5miles by 5 miles across at it's largest, but also 5 miles upwards! There are infinite of these worlds you can link to in just one game (they've already showed a type of JRPG 'world map/overworld' that someone has made for one game - very similar to Chrono Cross' actually), but just one level could easily have a greater landmass than GTA considering that you can do things like underground worlds, mountains and floating islands too.

 

[afrocentricity]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Spark

Looks good. Discuss, post vids, link info.... etc...

 

[Randall Flagg]

This should be in the gay thread. Huh huh.



Seriously though I haven't a clue what this game is. I didn't like LBP, so dont think I am interested.

Is there already stuff like this on PC?

 

[ciderman9000000]

This didn't need its own thread.

/thread

Everybody back to the Xbox One vs PS4 thread...

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Good thread.

Sign of a good poster interested in maintaining the quality of threads.

 

[KingEric7]

This should be in the gay thread. Huh huh.



Seriously though I haven't a clue what this game is. I didn't like LBP, so dont think I am interested.

Is there already stuff like this on PC?

Minecraft is the closest thing I've seen (in terms of just building stuff). This is a lot better.

When Alock posted the first video in the Fanboy thread, I just sort of assumed it was some sort of mini game/small level creator like in Little Big Planet. When you actually watch an entire video though you realise it is something far, far more than that.

To give an idea of what can be done:

You can easily program brains for objects, characters, NPCs, etc... without having to know any sort of complex coding or anything.
There are thousands of props, terrain making tools, characters, monsters to choose from, that can be edited, given whatever weapons you want, spells, etc...
You can make up your own spells, weapons, etc...
You can use the Kinect for your own character animations, attacks, etc... with motion capture.
The Kinect will read your facial expressions and impart them on things in game.
The Kinect will also record your voice, music and then sync mouth movement with sound!!!
You can glue objects together to make completely original objects (ridiculous things have been done already with this).
The world is 5km x 5km, but is also 5km tall as well! You can go underground, up mountains, in the sky, etc...
FPS, third person shooter, ARPG, RPG, action/adventure, puzzle and pretty much every other genre of game you can think of is possible to make.
You can link worlds, meaning you can either make your world of infinite size or link to other people's games. (FF type world maps are possible if you do this).
RPG menus/statistics/health bars/money etc can be added in game.
....etc

I could go on for hours. The developers already have been doing; they're setting up streams every couple of days for an hour or so just to show what's possible.

The Kinect stuff is a very big deal in my opinion, whether it be the PC or Xbox One version. I personally never anticipated there would be anything even half as cool as that, never mind so soon. The thought of being able to make characters in a world move and talk exactly how you want them to is a mouthwatering prospect.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

King Eric, my issue with this is that why would I play a game made by amateurs using preset tools rather than professionals making something original from scratch?

 

[afrocentricity]

Some of the levels will be really professional though, you gotta start somewhere. Games like this help unearth talent...

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Some of the levels will be really professional though, you gotta start somewhere. Games like this help unearth talent...

If it's like people who put up you've videos of them singing and playing guitar then fine, but I'd never listen to those people really even though they might get picked up by a record level. People who truly have talent and belief that what they're doing is worthy should be out doing it properly not taking a shortcut to make a shoddy product.

I don't know, don't see myself buying into the concept.

Like that game "to the moon" which kingeric and I both love. I don't think that guy would have ever made a game on these softwares. He believed in his ability and made game making his full time job and delivered a magnificent product through a lot of hard work.

I might be wrong, but my gut feeling is that this will contain lots of games that will be like those on mobile phones. It empowers people to share their game but I personally don't see those games as being my thing.

 

[KingEric7]

If it's like people who put up you've videos of them singing and playing guitar then fine, but I'd never listen to those people really even though they might get picked up by a record level. People who truly have talent and belief that what they're doing is worthy should be out doing it properly not taking a shortcut to make a shoddy product.

I don't know, don't see myself buying into the concept.

Like that game "to the moon" which kingeric and I both love. I don't think that guy would have ever made a game on these softwares. He believed in his ability and made game making his full time job and delivered a magnificent product through a lot of hard work.


I might be wrong, but my gut feeling is that this will contain lots of games that will be like those on mobile phones. It empowers people to share their game but I personally don't see those games as being my thing.

I just typed something about To The Moon, before then seeing you'd already mentioned it. To The Moon was actually made on something called "RPG Maker" amol, which is an equally accessible game creator in the same vein, but about a million times more inferior.

My feeling is that, like I before watching a few videos, you are probably underestimating the tools at your disposal with Project Spark. The creation process is as generic or as unique as you want to make it. It is shocking what that guy who made To The Moon could do with this! He could either make the exact same game or something far better.

 

[WeasteDevil]

I just typed something about To The Moon, before then seeing you'd already mentioned it. To The Moon was actually made on something called "RPG Maker" amol, which is an equally accessible game creator in the same vein, but about a million times more inferior.

My feeling is that, like I before watching a few videos, you are probably underestimating the tools at your disposal with Project Spark. The creation process is as generic or as unique as you want to make it. It is shocking what that guy who made To The Moon could do with this! He could either make the exact same game or something far better.

Do you know what Shoot'emup Construction Kit is?

 

[KingEric7]

I do now. Why?

*Right, I've looked it up and...there is no serious comparison to be drawn between the two pieces of software.

 

[Redlambs]

I've got plenty of tools I made to make jrpgs. feck the system.

I like the look of project spark though, can definitely see myself creating something.

 

[KingEric7]

I've got plenty of tools I made to make jrpgs. feck the system.


I like the look of project spark though, can definitely see myself creating something.

If that isn't a seal of approval, I don't know what is.

Look at what someone made out of standard props here:


51:48

That's amazing. Apparently it was built mostly out stuff you'd use to build a house. You can use custom animations there as well and turn that into the badass boss it should be.

 

[Alock1]

King Eric, my issue with this is that why would I play a game made by amateurs using preset tools rather than professionals making something original from scratch?

When you called it 'wank' in other thread, I'm gonna assume you were just saying it to annoy Ciderman90210? The only reason you could not have any interest in this game (with it being free to play!) is if you like big cinematic AAA titles exclusively - because the game is capable of everything else. If you don't want to build that's cool; it doesn't stop you playing the games for free.

Although everything has pre-sets and default properties to make sure the game is accessible to everybody; you can change the settings of absolutely everything. The Project Spark development team let a bunch of school kids play the game for an hour, and they came up with a crazy kart racing game in about an hours time. The thing is - there are pretty much no limits to this.

There is infinite amount of space to be used. One map can be 2/3rd the size of Skyrims if you only use the original level given, however you can make use all the space given to you, up to 5km high. so basically, you could fit in many Skyrims. Then, if that isn't enough, you can have a portal which takes you to either: another level or map of your game, or take the character into a separate game.

I'm sorry but; there are thousands of books out there that are self-published and are great. The people who use Project Spark aren't going to have to worry about budgets, or publishers on their back, or graphics.. I imagine by the end of the BETA we will see more innovative games made in Project Spark than will get released on PS4/Xbox One in their life time.

Like KingEric said, the game is unlimited - what games do you people like? Platformers? Kart racers? Sports games? JRPGS? FPS? TPS? Co-op? Kinect? Touch? - Whatever it is, you can pretty much guarantee somebody is going to make it.

For those too lazy to watch a video - here are two small montages from games made just by the devs themselves:


Look at 00:26, a guy throwing a fireball at an enemy. He has a HP bar, a MP bar and an AT bar and then 3 slots 'Attack', 'Duel', 'Fireball' - and if you had seen the streams me and Eric had, he could have a 100s of others all offering something completely different.

 

[KingEric7]

Kart Racers...I never thought of that. That would be such a fun thing to make!

 

[amolbhatia50k]

See that's the thing. All those montages look like mini games where set genres or styles of gaming are replicated. I'm not sure well get genuinely great experiences through this thing. That's also because I doubt the random guy who decides to pick this up and make a game. I guess only time will tell but I'll reserve my judgement till then. If it proved me wrong and provides games I actually want to play then I'll get it on the PC as these games don't seem to require much in terms of hardware.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Kart Racers...I never thought of that. That would be such a fun thing to make!

See this is the thing I'm talking about. Let's suppose you decided to make a kart racing game. Okay I probably would never play one but let's assume that you make one. Your ability to "make" it is going to be limited IMO. It's basically the game giving you certain ways to make the game, and you do that within the breathing space they give you. Now, like I said, I, not sure I'd want to play games just anyone makes bit suppose you do. Sure, you'd have made karting game. But their would be a million others making pretty much the same one because the framework is such. Your karting game would be so easily realised for you but as a gamer I don't think you'd have gone into that much detail in terms of actual gameplay.

 

[Alock1]

See that's the thing. All those montages look like mini games where set genres or styles of gaming are replicated. I'm not sure well get genuinely great experiences through this thing. That's also because I doubt the random guy who decides to pick this up and make a game. I guess only time will tell but I'll reserve my judgement till then. If it proved me wrong and provides games I actually want to play then I'll get it on the PC as these games don't seem to require much in terms of hardware.

Dude.. me and KingEric have posted videos of them making proper platformer games and RPG style games, and discussed them. The montages are gonna struggle to replicate that, but if you look at the time I showed you, you'll see he had 3 options and some empty slots. He could have 10 options, a spell which has a 30 second timer but regenerates his health every 3 seconds for 15. A spell which deals damage to fish enemies but not troll enemies, a healing spell to heal my allies.. seriously, you could make a proper MMO style RPG for sure - you say 'I can't see it on the videos' but if you watched the real streams then you would see it. And you haven't given one limitation to stop a proper RPG being made, just assume for no reason that you won't 'get genuinely great experiences'.

It just sounds like a lack of imagination and some laziness on your part, with a willing to not see it succeed.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Or an overestimation on your part to see people without all that much talent making quality games?

Anyways, like I said, I'm skeptical. The proof will be in the pudding. I've seen enough videos of project spark that says that it is an interesting tool but like the move/kinect, I'm not sure it will interest me in he near future. But I'll keep an eye out of for all of them in case they do.

 

[Alock1]

Does that look like a mini-game? 5 minutes long, cut to 3:20 if you don't want to see any of the creating side.
KingEric if you haven't seen that, watch it.

If the game shown between 3:20 and 4:20 was made with a 10hr campaign, there would be people that would totally buy it for 40£.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Again, it seems to be a case of "we've made a game! " more than anything else. That one minute of gameplay looks like a really shit game I'd never pay for.

 

[Alock1]

Again, it seems to be a case of "we've made a game! " more than anything else. That one minute of gameplay looks like a really shit game I'd never pay for.

What games do you go for?

And the thing is, you don't have to pay for it. Other people would, and it's not a mini-game, it shows a glimpse of the shit you could do - but I don't believe you actually think it looks shit anyway.

 

[KingEric7]

See this is the thing I'm talking about. Let's suppose you decided to make a kart racing game. Okay I probably would never play one but let's assume that you make one. Your ability to "make" it is going to be limited IMO. It's basically the game giving you certain ways to make the game, and you do that within the breathing space they give you. Now, like I said, I, not sure I'd want to play games just anyone makes bit suppose you do. Sure, you'd have made karting game. But their would be a million others making pretty much the same one because the framework is such. Your karting game would be so easily realised for you but as a gamer I don't think you'd have gone into that much detail in terms of actual gameplay.

I suppose we'll have to just disagree in terms of what's possible. I've watched hours of these streams now, and if enough effort is put in you could clearly make a great game of some sort. Like I say, I think the best games will be RPGs if the effort is put in, but that's more because I'm unwilling to commit about others due to not having seen enough of the AI programming. They've spoken about not wanting to reveal too much of that yet.

To be honest, at the end of the day I'm not that fussed if I don't manage to create something good enough for others to enjoy. Ideally, there is a very layered JRPG story I've had in mind for about a year that I think definitely deserves to be made into something (I suppose the closest comparison would be Xenogears' story), but realistically it would take me hundreds of hours to do it justice with Project Spark. I love the feeling of being creative though, so even if I don't ever finish it I will have had a lot of fun and happiness in trying. It would piss me off for a while when I gave up, but I'd be glad to have enjoyed the platform and opportunity to do something with the idea.

Unlike me, there will be others who aren't as lazy, and people who are more committed to working in groups online to cooperatively create something special (as well as generally just being a lot more talented). We've said ourselves already that To The Moon is an absolute masterpeice, and Project Spark is the perfect platform for more games of that sort of thing to emerge. You could easily make a To The Moon if you had the idea, only with much better graphics and better gameplay (or the same if you want...2D is supported).

The only barrier I can see is that people might not want to spend so much time on something if they don't make money out of it, but it seems there is a conscious effort by Microsoft to build a community and to publicise the best games. People who do rank highly in the lists and the charts will probably get offered developer jobs at some point, so hopefully the incentives are there to really kick this off.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

What games do you go for?

And the thing is, you don't have to pay for it. Other people would, and it's not a mini-game, it shows a glimpse of the shit you could do - but I don't believe you actually think it looks shit anyway.

All type. It depends on the quality.

I'll put this in the "to be seen later" drawer for the quality of games people make.

 

[KingEric7]

Does that look like a mini-game? 5 minutes long, cut to 3:20 if you don't want to see any of the creating side.
KingEric if you haven't seen that, watch it.

If the game shown between 3:20 and 4:20 was made with a 10hr campaign, there would be people that would totally buy it for 40£.

I think that looks brilliant and is clearly more than a sufficient engine for top quality gaming. Even if the graphics aren't at Titanfall/Battlefield standard or what have you, that's not the only issue at hand with the modern day gaming industry. For people who are dissatisfied with the general standard of storylines, gameplay, dialogue, difficulty, etc... this could be the solution. It might not be a Frostbite 3 engine, but it's a fantastic platform from which to inject things back into the industry that it has been lacking by and large. It's basically a dream for people who look towards indie games for innovation.

 

[Alock1]

See, I think that looks brilliant and more than a sufficient platform. Even if the gameplay isn't a Titanfall, a Battlefield or what have you, that's not the only issue at hand with the modern day gaming industry. For people who are dissatisfied with the general standard of storylines, dialogue, difficulty, etc... this could be the solution. It might not be a Frostbite 3 engine, but it's a fantastic platform from which to inject things back into the industry that it has been lacking by and large. It's basically a dream for people who look towards indie games for innovation.

Saying that, RockMech looked as good as the Titans in Titanfall if you ask me!

 

[KingEric7]

Saying that, RockMech looked as good as the Titans in Titanfall if you ask me!

It looks fantastic, I can't believe someone made something like that. One thing I wonder is what sort of impact it would have if Microsoft allowed users to sell props like that across the community. Would that be a good thing? It's probably irrelevant seeing as though that would be a terrible idea for Microsoft (they're blatantly going to make a lot of money off DLC), but that really would send people crazy. I'm thinking it might be a good idea to let people that make the best games and get on top lists be able to make money from their games. Not any old games, but genuinely the absolute masterpieces that people come up with (which is blatantly possible!). Like the top 10 or something, and a charge of no more than a couple of quid.

Have I overlooked something massive or committed some sort of terrible sin by suggesting that? There is a Twitch live stream going on now and I'm thinking of suggesting it. I just think something like that would send people into an absolute frenzy trying to create something as good as possible.

 

[Alock1]

It looks fantastic, I can't believe someone made something like that. One thing I wonder is what sort of impact it would have if Microsoft allowed users to sell props like that across the community. Would that be a good thing? It's probably irrelevant seeing as though that would be a terrible idea for Microsoft (they're blatantly going to make a lot of money off DLC), but that really would send people crazy. I'm thinking it might be a good idea to let people that make the best games and get on top lists be able to make money from their games. Not any old games, but genuinely the absolute masterpieces that people come up with (which is blatantly possible!). Like the top 10 or something, and a charge of no more than a couple of quid.

Have I overlooked something massive or committed some sort of terrible sin by suggesting that? There is a Twitch live stream going on now and I'm thinking of suggesting it. I just think something like that would send people into an absolute frenzy trying to create something as good as possible.

Maybe the ability to 'donate' to creators? Which would work especially will since the game gives credit to past creators.

As for the whole selling of props thing, remember that you can remix somebody elses game. So I'm gonna assume that that game there is somewhere in the Project Spark community right now, that they have there for when they do their streams and you see them flick through games made and they show one or two off.. Now, if it is, and the BETA starts, I could potentially 'remix that game' - I dunno whether I could 'copy' the prop to put into a seperate one, or if I would simply have to delete everything in the game but that prop and start a new just so it was there - but it wouldn't be difficult.

What I would probably do, is take note of all the programming and scripting on that RockMech, and then try and create my own.

 

[KingEric7]

Ah yeah, good point on the props. I asked on the stream about the monetisation and they said it was something they'd maybe visit years down the line. Sounded like a big no to be honest and the guy looked slightly peeved. Was asked with the best of intentions - this game deserves to be massive.

I have no doubt that people will create fantastic games, but if they really wanted to maximise the potential of what was possible then this would be the way to go. It would help them a lot as well because people would be more inclined to buy DLC.

 

[Alock1]

Ah yeah, good point on the props. I asked on the stream about the monetisation and they said it was something they'd maybe visit years down the line. Sounded like a big no to be honest and the guy looked slightly peeved. Was asked with the best of intentions - this game deserves to be massive.

I have no doubt that people will create fantastic games, but if they really wanted to maximise the potential of what was possible then this would be the way to go. It would help them a lot as well because people would be more inclined to buy DLC.

What's been shown on the live stream so far? How long has it been running?

ie. Should I just wait and rewatch it all later, or should I jump in now?

 

[KingEric7]

It's done now. I wasn't actually watching too much of it because I'd rather watch through from the start. I was asking questions like a madman instead!

One thing I asked a mod was whether you could make characters grab on to ledges after jumping. Hadn't seen that yet but apparently it would be an extremely easy thing to program. Combos as well...gathered you could do this anyway but I thought I'd check. I don't know if you've ever played Kingdom Hearts 2 but with custom animations you could get something similar to that going on...

 

[Alock1]

It's done now. I wasn't actually watching too much of it because I'd rather watch through from the start. I was asking questions like a madman instead!

One thing I asked a mod was whether you could make characters grab on to ledges after jumping. Hadn't seen that yet but apparently it would be an extremely easy thing to program.

Combos as well...gathered you could do this anyway but I thought I'd check. I don't know if you've ever played Kingdom Hearts 2 but with custom animations you could get something similar to that going.

Oh yeah, you could definitely make a Kingdom of Hearts game. I was saying to a friend that you would find remakes of cult games and sequels that never got done - it would be like fan-fiction. There's a particularly demo which showcases a side-scrolling platform which is very much in the style of the game Limbo - if you haven't seen the stream, you will probably have seen it on the second montage.

I was thinking of making a list of games franchises you could either recreate or add to..

Rockemon - Pokemon but made from Rocks.
Mario, Sonic, Crash - all the platformer games would be piss easy to make, you'd miss the character of course which would be a shame.
It would be cool if Project Spark could get some licenses for particular characters but I doubt it'd happen - maybe characters which MS owns the license for, like Master Chief? Still, I doubt it.

 

[KingEric7]

Oh yeah, you could definitely make a Kingdom of Hearts game. I was saying to a friend that you would find remakes of cult games and sequels that never got done - it would be like fan-fiction. There's a particularly demo which showcases a side-scrolling platform which is very much in the style of the game Limbo - if you haven't seen the stream, you will probably have seen it on the second montage.

I was thinking of making a list of games franchises you could either recreate or add to..

Rockemon - Pokemon but made from Rocks.
Mario, Sonic, Crash - all the platformer games would be piss easy to make, you'd miss the character of course which would be a shame.
It would be cool if Project Spark could get some licenses for particular characters but I doubt it'd happen - maybe characters which MS owns the license for, like Master Chief? Still, I doubt it.

I'd be amazed if this was possible and they didn't try it. They don't have as many to work with as Sony or Nintendo, but people would fall head over heels for Masterchief surely. I'd even consider buying him and I've only ever owned one Halo game.

Out of interest, how does the modding community fit into this? I'm guessing Microsoft will try and make this impossible.

 

[Alock1]

I'd be amazed if this was possible and they didn't try it. They don't have as many to work with as Sony or Nintendo, but people would fall head over heels for Masterchief surely. I'd even consider buying him and I've only ever owned one Halo game.

Out of interest, how does the modding community fit into this? I'm guessing Microsoft will try and make this impossible.

Xbox One will allow for modding, they say it's upto developers.

I imagine if you asked on the next stream, they would probably respond that they feel the game is open enough and offers enough already - I dunno.. I guess maybe it could be done on PC, but I'm not sure they'd let you put it on the community marketplace if so. You would probably have to download mods separately and perhaps go through a third-party application.

I see no reason that they couldn't get characters like Masterchief - probably would be DLC, but they'd guarantee themselves some money there. Would be interesting for sure.. but they could end up supporting film characters, sort of similar to how McDonalds do with Happy Meals - so when a film comes out, they release him as a character on the game.

I just don't see it happening, but technically, it's all easily possible - I guess the budget would be the issue.

If they could, I'm sure Sega (maybe Ubisoft) would be tempted if they received good enough money for it - it'd be free marketing for them aswel.

 

[KingEric7]

Xbox One will allow for modding, they say it's upto developers.

I imagine if you asked on the next stream, they would probably respond that they feel the game is open enough and offers enough already - I dunno.. I guess maybe it could be done on PC, but I'm not sure they'd let you put it on the community marketplace if so. You would probably have to download mods separately and perhaps go through a third-party application.

I see no reason that they couldn't get characters like Masterchief - probably would be DLC, but they'd guarantee themselves some money there. Would be interesting for sure.. but they could end up supporting film characters, sort of similar to how McDonalds do with Happy Meals - so when a film comes out, they release him as a character on the game.

I just don't see it happening, but technically, it's all easily possible - I guess the budget would be the issue.

If they could, I'm sure Sega (maybe Ubisoft) would be tempted if they received good enough money for it - it'd be free marketing for them aswel.

Microsoft Studios. That's why I was thinking there'd probably just be a complete ban on any modding with this game. I'm guessing it would really take the emphasis off making your own stuff if people had loads of content pack mods anyway so maybe that's not a bad thing. If that great big Rock Mech is anything to go by in that video in post 14, then it doesn't really seem necessary.

 

[KingEric7]

Stream must've been blurry - guy didn't look pissed off at all now that I watch it... I explained it again later on because I thought it might have been seen as offensive and he said "I like it, I like the way you think, though", so maybe they will consider it at some point. Definitely think it would be a good thing for that to happen because that is the only thing I can think of that would realistically hinder this in any way.


That's the one from today. Gives a bit of an insight into what is possible with the Kinect animations although they need a lot of work on the Xbox One at the moment.

 

[Dargonk]

noticed in the videos, they keep mentioning coming to windows 8 when talking about the PC version. Will you be able to use it if you have windows 7 instead?

 

[ciderman9000000]

noticed in the videos, they keep mentioning coming to windows 8 when talking about the PC version. Will you be able to use it if you have windows 7 instead?

Yeah, Microsoft always refer to Windows as Windows 8; it doesn't mean that stuff won't work on earlier iterations.

 

[Dargonk]

Yeah, Microsoft always refer to Windows as Windows 8; it doesn't mean that stuff won't work on earlier iterations.

ah right, hopefully that is the case.