PSG - 2021/22 | French Spurs?

[PedroMendez]

Horrible culture at the club. Three players bigger than the club. The water-carrier are hiding and look to the top stars to do something. The top stars are at best individualist, who don't do what the team needs. Additionally half the team seem to lose their shit and is more interested in starting brawls when things don't go their way. They have zero leadership. The only one who shows anything like it is Marquinhos, but the pressure seems to be too much.
Messi is in retirement. Did Neymar actually play last night? Where was Verratti in the last 25 minutes? I havnt seen him showing for the ball to calm things down. With the exception of Mbappe, all these players fudged it again. Leonardo did a horrible job building this squad.

 

[ericPSG]

Being a PSG fan is a curse
At least in the early 2000s, we had no hope. Now every summer we think this is the year before going down in a spectacular and humiliating way

 

[JPRouve]

And yet, these players are still part of too many bottle jobs (bar Neymar given he joined after). I mean - Marquinhos and Kimbembe were a huge, huge let down against Real themselves.

Also a lot of players have changed few times over since PSG got taken over. Be it in Emery's reign, Ancelotti's reign, Tuchel's reign and now Poch's. They still underperform in Europe almost every season. Have you considered the idea the issue is wider at hand? Rather than thinking along the lines of "oh this manager has a new set of players, it should be a different story".

Yeah I have considered that the issue is wider. They aren't underperforming. Think about it this way, you don't easily win the CL. There is only one club that made the CL look easy and that's Real Madrid, everyone else struggle to similar proportions to PSG and for some it's even worse, Juventus history in the CL is borderline tragic, prime United aren't exactly glorious when it comes to CL, nor are clubs like Inter, Arsenal and many others.

When it comes to PSG and the CL, I noticed two things people overrate PSG's squad and they underrate the CL as a competition. Personally I'm not criticizing Pochettino for losing against Real Madrid and a manager like Ancelotti who is a cup specialists, but lets not make up nonsenses around PSG recent history and the nature of their squad, it helps no one and only shows that you don't follow the team at all.

 

[VP89]

Yeah I have considered that the issue is wider. They aren't underperforming. Think about it this way, you don't easily win the CL. There is only one club that made the CL look easy and that's Real Madrid, everyone else struggle to similar proportions to PSG and for some it's even worse, Juventus history in the CL is borderline tragic, prime United aren't exactly glorious when it comes to CL, nor are clubs like Inter, Arsenal and many others.

When it comes to PSG and the CL, I noticed two things people overrate PSG's squad and they underrate the CL as a competition. Personally I'm not criticizing Pochettino for losing against Real Madrid and a manager like Ancelotti who is a cup specialists, but lets not make up nonsenses around PSG recent history and the nature of their squad, it helps no one and only shows that you don't follow the team at all.

I appreciate that, I just feel even if not going all the way to the final, they have choked against sides they are not expected to. Interestingly they have also pulled off great results against teams who were stern tests (Bayern, Liverpool, City).

It doesn't help that Leo is rarely in tandem with the managers and Nasser Al-Khelaïfi can evidently snap threatening to kill people

 

[JPRouve]

I appreciate that, I just feel even if not going all the way to the final, they have choked against sides they are not expected to. Interestingly they have also pulled off great results against teams who were stern tests (Bayern, Liverpool, City).

It doesn't help that Leo is rarely in tandem with the managers and Nasser Al-Khelaïfi can evidently snap threatening to kill people

Who? Since 2012 PSG have been eliminated by Real Madrid, Barcelona, Chelsea, City, United and Bayern, I don't think that I'm missing someone. Outside of the game against United which featured two weakened teams, they have always been eliminated by tournaments favorites or top teams.

We are not talking about a club losing to Spurs, Roma, Ajax, Lyon or teams like that which is exactly what has happened to the likes of Barcelona, Real Madrid or City.

 

[VP89]

Who? Since 2012 PSG have been eliminated by Real Madrid, Barcelona, Chelsea, City, United and Bayern, I don't think that I'm missing someone. Outside of the game against United which featured two weakened teams, they have always been eliminated by tournaments favorites or top teams.

I mean in the sense that they would take control and then capitulate (Barcelona, ourselves). Chelsea too, they were 3-1 up going into the second leg no? And that Chelsea team was good but not that good. Just googled it again, they were undone by goals by Ba and Shurrle to lose 2-0 on an aggregate draw of 3-3.

 

[stefan92]

Who? Since 2012 PSG have been eliminated by Real Madrid, Barcelona, Chelsea, City, United and Bayern, I don't think that I'm missing someone. Outside of the game against United which featured two weakened teams, they have always been eliminated by tournaments favorites or top teams.

We are not talking about a club losing to Spurs, Roma, Ajax, Lyon or teams like that which is exactly what has happened to the likes of Barcelona, Real Madrid or City.

I think you are right. It's not the teams they lose against, but sometimes it is just the way they lose that's remarkable. Collapses like yesterday are the single reason why they are still second tier in the CL. They need to overcome this persisting mental weakness to go all the way. Still not a guarantee as we have seen during their runner-up campaign where this didn't happen, but definitely would increase their chances.

 

[JPRouve]

I mean in the sense that they would take control and then capitulate (Barcelona, ourselves). Chelsea too, they were 3-1 up going into the second leg no? And that Chelsea team was good but not that good. Just googled it again, they were undone by goals by Ba and Shurrle to lose 2-0 on an aggregate draw of 3-3.

But that's because they actually do the opposite, they somehow raise their game against certain teams and when that more experienced/superior team matches that level PSG don't have enough to go up again. It's reminiscent of Juventus or Atletico Madrid who have had similar things happen to them and PSG have generally been around these teams level which is just below where the likes of Real Madrid, Bayern and Barcelona(2014-2016) are.

I think you are right. It's not the teams they lose against, but sometimes it is just the way they lose that's remarkable. Collapses like yesterday are the single reason why they are still second tier in the CL. They need to overcome this persisting mental weakness to go all the way. Still not a guarantee as we have seen during their runner-up campaign where this didn't happen, but definitely would increase their chances.

It's not simply a mental weakness, their teams aren't built to soak up pressure from a technical standpoint. It's not a particularly physical team and it's also not a particularly good team from a possession standpoint, outside of Verratti their midfielders are for example not really able to play in tight spaces, play the ball quickly and precisely in tight space. When you play top teams, it is not unilkely to face a team that has both a high technical level and players that can close space quickly, that's why the addition of someone like Camavinga made a difference, Camavinga is someone that already dominated PSG's midfield with Rennes, he is both a runner and a very good technician.

We could actually reframe this leg as Real Madrid failing to realize that they had the solution against PSG and somehow only used it for one half.

 

[Cloud7]

I think the argument about ligue1 has merit. PSG have been in 4 title races since the takeover. They lost 3 of them.

They're just not used to adversity. You'd think the CL would have forged them by now but I think it's actually the other way around. They've failed so many times by now that as soon as things start going wrong, those ghosts come to the fore instead. And because their league is too easy for them, because they're not used to challengers and adversity, to overcoming them, they have no experience to go on dealing with it

Interesting bit of info. I was not aware of that.

 

[André Dominguez]

Yeah I have considered that the issue is wider. They aren't underperforming. Think about it this way, you don't easily win the CL. There is only one club that made the CL look easy and that's Real Madrid, everyone else struggle to similar proportions to PSG and for some it's even worse, Juventus history in the CL is borderline tragic, prime United aren't exactly glorious when it comes to CL, nor are clubs like Inter, Arsenal and many others.

When it comes to PSG and the CL, I noticed two things people overrate PSG's squad and they underrate the CL as a competition. Personally I'm not criticizing Pochettino for losing against Real Madrid and a manager like Ancelotti who is a cup specialists, but lets not make up nonsenses around PSG recent history and the nature of their squad, it helps no one and only shows that you don't follow the team at all.

Hard not to agree with this. I suspect that people who usually overrate PSG are usually FIFA/FM players

Like any other squad, PSG has it's weaknesses and it's quite easy to point both FB's who actually are better at doing attacking tasks, and while Danilo and Paredes are extremely useful players to balance the team, they offer less than other less athletic players in terms of technical and tactical solutions.

Another problem is that the gap between European top clubs and the rest increased a lot to the point that for a top 4 EPL club battering a club like Porto or similar by 4 or 5 goals up became a normal result.
It's not that the Champions League competitivity is higher nowadays: the top clubs became incredibly strong and instead of having a couple of players who can change the entire game, they now have 3, 4 or 5 players with that level of talent.

As a manager once said: your team can be doing the perfect game on defense, transitions and attack, but if the other team has a couple of amazingly gifted 80M players, who will pick the ball, dribble two or three players or find that millimetrical near to impossible pass and change an entire game (not to mention poor ref decisions and keeper blunders.)

 

[JPRouve]

Hard not to agree with this. I suspect that people who usually overrate PSG are usually FIFA/FM players

Like any other squad, PSG has it's weaknesses and it's quite easy to point both FB's who actually are better at doing attacking tasks, and while Danilo and Paredes are extremely useful players to balance the team, they offer less than other less athletic players in terms of technical and tactical solutions.

Another problem is that the gap between European top clubs and the rest increased a lot to the point that for a top 4 EPL club battering a club like Porto or similar by 4 or 5 goals up became a normal result.
It's not that the Champions League competitivity is higher nowadays: the top clubs became incredibly strong and instead of having a couple of players who can change the entire game, they now have 3, 4 or 5 players with that level of talent.

As a manager once said: your team can be doing the perfect game on defense, transitions and attack, but if the other team has a couple of amazingly gifted 80M players, who will pick the ball, dribble two or three players or find that millimetrical near to impossible pass and change an entire game (not to mention poor ref decisions and keeper blunders.)

To illustrate your point. Kroos, Modric, Camavinga, Valverde and Casemiro are all clearly better than any of PSG's midfielders not named Verratti and it's not close. People overlook that. On that point I said for Tuchel and I will say it for Pochettino, PSG failed to build an actual top squad, my criticism of Pochettino aren't based on results but on how PSG plays under him compared to Tuchel who had even less.

 

[MalBot]

Poch hasn't won a single away game in the UCL in Europe nor vs any of the big 5 clubs in league 1."

Is this really true? If it is then that is damning and I'm not sure there is anything that could be said to excuse that kind of record.

 

[JPRouve]

Is this really true? If it is then that is damning and I'm not sure there is anything that could be said to excuse that kind of record.

You could go to top 6, if I'm not mistaken they only beat the current 7th away from home. Strasbourg is their last chance.

 

[giorno]

Where was Verratti in the last 25 minutes?

In a court of law, filing a restraining order against Fede Valverde

Who? Since 2012 PSG have been eliminated by Real Madrid, Barcelona, Chelsea, City, United and Bayern, I don't think that I'm missing someone. Outside of the game against United which featured two weakened teams, they have always been eliminated by tournaments favorites or top teams.

ahem. City, 2016. That was *BAD*

Btw, if anything Tuchel is the one manager who deserves a pass for the collapse. That was 3 isolated individual mistakes by 3 different players, it wasn't a complete team-wide meltdown. And if they were less profligate in front of goal it would not have mattered. Basically a case of manager did good, players fecked up on their own

We could actually reframe this leg as Real Madrid failing to realize that they had the solution against PSG and somehow only used it for one half.

I am honestly leaning towards this opinion too. Helped that Benzema was half-fit for the first leg.

Ancelotti basically screwed up and was bailed out by Donnarumma, Courtois/Messi, and PSG not taking enough of their chances when they could

 

[JPRouve]

ahem. City, 2016. That was *BAD*

Btw, if anything Tuchel is the one manager who deserves a pass for the collapse. That was 3 isolated individual mistakes by 3 different players, it wasn't a complete team-wide meltdown. And if they were less profligate in front of goal it would not have mattered. Basically a case of manager did good, players fecked up on their own

In which way? We are not talking about PSG losing to a City team that were actually inferior on paper or otherwise. The only strange thing was Blanc using a back three after losing Matuidi and without Verratti.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

Is this really true? If it is then that is damning and I'm not sure there is anything that could be said to excuse that kind of record.

It's not true. PSG won 2-3 at the Allianz Arena last season.

 

[JPRouve]

It's not true. PSG won 2-3 at the Allianz Arena last season.

He is talking about this season, I believe.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

He is talking about this season, I believe.

If that's the case then who cares, it's just four games.

 

[giorno]

In which way? We are not talking about PSG losing to a City team that were actually inferior on paper or otherwise. The only strange thing was Blanc using a back three after losing Matuidi and without Verratti.

City were a pathetic excuse for a team. That was an embarrising defeat

 

[JPRouve]

If that's the case then who cares, it's just four games.

He mentioned the league and the champions league. Currently PSG haven't won an away games against any of the top 6 teams in the league and none of their away CL games, that's 9 games.

 

[JPRouve]

City were a pathetic excuse for a team. That was an embarrising defeat

I don't get that one. We are talking about a PSG team that had Van der Wiel, Aurier, Trapp, Maxwell and Thiago Motta starting.

I think that you overrate the PSG team that was actually on the field and underrate City.

 

[PedroMendez]

I am honestly leaning towards this opinion too. Helped that Benzema was half-fit for the first leg.

Ancelotti basically screwed up and was bailed out by Donnarumma, Courtois/Messi, and PSG not taking enough of their chances when they could

I don’t think it makes any sense to explain the third goal with tactics or individual quality. The whole team was losing their shit. Same happened in the past, most notably against Barca, but also against other opponents. I am not even watching them play that often, but I’ve seen it plenty of times that players like Neymar, Paredes, Kimpembe, Danilo & Co just lose their cool. They have plenty of hot-heads and there is nobody to stop them. Often, they get away with it, because of their individual quality, but the margin of error is small in the K.O. stage of the CL.

 

[giorno]

I don't get that one. We are talking about a PSG team that had Van der Wiel, Aurier, Trapp, Maxwell and Thiago Motta starting.

I think that you overrate the PSG team that was actually on the field and underrate City.

Not calling it a meltdown, just embarassing, and it was.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

He mentioned the league and the champions league. Currently PSG haven't won an away games against any of the top 6 teams in the league and none of their away CL games, that's 9 games.

This is a pretty arbitrary standard.

The original comparison was to Tuchel. Has he done much better this season, at Chelsea? Chelsea won 1, drew 1, and lost 1 in the group stages, that's only 2 more points than PSG did, off a 0-1 victory against Malmo. Of the current league top 6, they won against Arsenal away. They didn't win against Liverpool, didn't win against Manchester City, didn't win against West Ham. Is this radically better?

 

[JPRouve]

This is a pretty arbitrary standard.

The original comparison was to Tuchel. Has he done much better this season, at Chelsea? Chelsea won 1, drew 1, and lost 1 in the group stages, that's only 2 more points than PSG did, off a 0-1 victory against Malmo. Of the current league top 6, they won against Arsenal away. They didn't win against Liverpool, didn't win against Manchester City, didn't win against West Ham. Is this radically better?

That's not a standard. And I believe that the point relates to a trend seen for a long time with Pochettino. In the PL, Spurs were very bad against top half teams.

 

[::sonny::]

It’s right
It’s the minimum
Applause and chants for Maguire, Bissaka and McFred here

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[crossy1686]

Let's hope they get a nice Parisian owner who runs the club like every other team in Ligue 1

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[LawCharltonBest]

I thought Pochettino would have been sacked after that CL defeat, considering that's what their entire season rests on and they just got Messi.

 

[crossy1686]

I thought Pochettino would have been sacked after that CL defeat, considering that's what their entire season rests on and they just got Messi.

Him, Mbappe and Neymar off at the end of the season apparently

 

[RoyH1]

Him, Mbappe and Neymar off at the end of the season apparently

Dumping Neymar won't be easy with that salary of his

 

[cyberman]

Why did they take over a French side? Surely they knew this was the danger of having no competition?

 

[DJ_21]

Why were Neymar and messi getting booed at every time they touched the ball of there own fans? That’s gonna make them want to leave at end of the season and then they’ll just turn into a small club. Imagine booing messi who is bigger then your whole club . I get there angry after being knocked out by Madrid but they might want to question the managers tactics for the second halve.

 

[RedRonaldo]

It’s right
It’s the minimum
Applause and chants for Maguire, Bissaka and McFred here

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Its would be great shame if Messi is going to end his career with boos from PSG fans. GOAT deserves more respect, PSG fans should know they are most plastic club in the world anyway.

 

[Teja]

Him, Mbappe and Neymar off at the end of the season apparently

Yikes. Wonder who they'll go for then - Haaland seems almost necessary but doubt he'd go to France. Any other superstars floating about?

 

[Elcabron]

I agree with Messi being booed. If you are getting paid that salary and not performing then the fans have every right as they are the ones who pay your wages.......wait actually, maybe not in this case.

 

[giorno]

Why were Neymar and messi getting booed at every time they touched the ball of there own fans? That’s gonna make them want to leave at end of the season

Why ask a question you answered yourself

 

[DJ_21]

Why ask a question you answered yourself

So to basically make them leave? Sound like spoilt fans to me. They think they can get better then them 2?

 

[stefan92]

So to basically make them leave? Sound like spoilt fans to me. They think they can get better then them 2?

PSG actually has tradition and real fans, and it was not about fancy lazy players. The fans demand to see motivation and hard work on the pitch, and those two don't deliver that. Mbappe might also not work that much but he is scoring goals, so understandably gets a free pass.

You said Messi is bigger than PSG. You are wrong. No player is ever bigger than the team. Doesn't matter which is the team. You could put prime Messi in a pub teamand still the team would be bigger.

If he doesn't think so himself, than he has got an attitude problem and can feck off anyways. That's not being spoilt, that is demanding the minimum that can be demanded from every employee everywhere (which is at least trying to do a good job)

 

[DJ_21]

PSG actually has tradition and real fans, and it was not about fancy lazy players. The fans demand to see motivation and hard work on the pitch, and those two don't deliver that. Mbappe might also not work that much but he is scoring goals, so understandably gets a free pass.

You said Messi is bigger than PSG. You are wrong. No player is ever bigger than the team. Doesn't matter which is the team. You could put prime Messi in a pub teamand still the team would be bigger.

If he doesn't think so himself, than he has got an attitude problem and can feck off anyways. That's not being spoilt, that is demanding the minimum that can be demanded from every employee everywhere (which is at least trying to do a good job)

Ye I didn’t mean him being bigger then the club, obviously no player is bigger then any club but messi has won a lot of champions league, psg haven’t, so messi can’t be the problem why psg can’t win the champions league… I get them booing Neymar a lot more then I did about messi. Neymar turns up whenever he feels like… messi has always been lazy, even at Barca but he never received boos.

 

[stefan92]

Ye I didn’t mean him being bigger then the club, obviously no player is bigger then any club but messi has won a lot of champions league, psg haven’t, so messi can’t be the problem why psg can’t win the champions league… I get them booing Neymar a lot more then I did about messi. Neymar turns up whenever he feels like… messi has always been lazy, even at Barca but he never received boos.

I see... well I think for Messi at Barca the same applied as now for Mbappe: As long as you score enough goals and have great output, you will be forgiven being a little lazy. Messi earned a lot of credit for himself at Barca, but at PSG he obviously started with zero, just with expectations, and totally failed to even remotely fulfill those.